Gun Debate - US vs Europe?

[oldeurope]

Old europe, I doubt is either in Europe or European....

Wrong! I was born and raised in Europe.
Don't be so paranoid. I'm moved, how some here seem to "regret", that I left, after you all have been sooo kind to me ;-) So here I am again.
I did live in the US for a year and did learn a lot about that great country of yours. I also met a lot of people whom I really respected/admired who owned guns themselves.
I understand america probably a lot more than some here do the rest of the world - then again those don't give a ... anyways.
Theoretically, there is nothing wrong with amendmend 2, BUT...
Practically there are too many people not responsible enough or just too plain stupid to handle guns responsibly. Also, the 2nd amendment is too often used as a sorry excuse by guncrazy idiots. Freedoms are cool, when people can handle them. And by the way masses of idiots with guns can very well be a threat to democracy. I know this is unpopular here, but regulation could do some good here. When guns get too much importance in peoples lives this can easily corrupt trust and solidarity among people. That is not good and very unamerican. Guns are not the origin of problems, but they can help to promote them, rather then solve them.
Just a little insight into my head - I don't think many here will appriciate it, though. And very few seemed open minded enough to talk about stuff. That's why I left. NOT because it got hot in the kitchen, like someone remarked.
By the way: I was taught how to shoot in the US. I observed the fascination it has and decided, that it wasn't for me. I'm convinced, that guns require a sound mind and a balanced character. Unfortunately other problems in your society prevent many people to acquire exactly that.

[tombogan03884]

Wrong! I was born and raised in Europe.
Don't be so paranoid. I'm moved, how some here seem to "regret", that I left, after you all have been sooo kind to me ;-) So here I am again.
I did live in the US for a year and did learn a lot about that great country of yours. I also met a lot of people whom I really respected/admired who owned guns themselves.
I understand america probably a lot more than some here do the rest of the world - then again those don't give a ... anyways.
Theoretically, there is nothing wrong with amendmend 2, BUT...
Practically there are too many people not responsible enough or just too plain stupid to handle guns responsibly. Also, the 2nd amendment is too often used as a sorry excuse by guncrazy idiots. Freedoms are cool, when people can handle them. And by the way masses of idiots with guns can very well be a threat to democracy. I know this is unpopular here, but regulation could do some good here. When guns get too much importance in peoples lives this can easily corrupt trust and solidarity among people. That is not good and very unamerican. Guns are not the origin of problems, but they can help to promote them, rather then solve them.
Just a little insight into my head - I don't think many here will appriciate it, though. And very few seemed open minded enough to talk about stuff. That's why I left. NOT because it got hot in the kitchen, like someone remarked.
By the way: I was taught how to shoot in the US. I observed the fascination it has and decided, that it wasn't for me. I'm convinced, that guns require a sound mind and a balanced character. Unfortunately other problems in your society prevent many people to acquire exactly that.

Back to your bridge before someone sics a Billy goat on you.

[oldeurope]

So... OldEurope... if you are from the old country ( across the big pond , as my husband likes to put it)   and you do not truly understand the 2nd amendment ..and you joined Down Range for the right reasons.... then there are a host of wonderful caring patriotic men in here that will be more than glad to share information with you. And will enjoy listening to what you have to say also.
 If you would like to share information back we would love to have you... If ...on the other hand ..you only came in here to  talk liberal pissy assed stuff.. then I doubt you will find many like minded people to talk to.
 
If that is the case... then my suggestion would be for you to skip on out of here and go find those who think like you do... and you can try to convince each other that you don't need guns...and that guns are bad ..and that all the good guys would be better off without them. ( the bad guys sure like that theory) 
But just a word of friendly advice...
When the shit hits the fan....( and it will).. I hope you can dial 911 and there is someone who is left that will give a damn..
Cause if there isn't....................... weeeelllllll... you my good man, will be begging your frightened hind end off for a legal gun carrying citizen to come and save you.   


 
 

Weeeelll, why do you ask me to leave and then post that I chickened out when I do?

I didn't know forums are "off bounds" to people of a different mindsets - that's interesting...
We'll all get really far, when we discuss things with people who share our opinions exactly.

And thanks for the friendly advice. That's one way to see it. What do I do, if that "Bad Guy" has a more powerful gun or is faster with it? Do I have to spend all of my spare time practising? Become a Ninja Fighter? Join the marines? Life is full of risks, you live quite relaxed (and quite safe) when everyone acknowledges that fact.

[oldeurope]

Back to your bridge before someone sics a Billy goat on you.

Sorry, my vocab is not up to date. What do you mean by that? It doesn't sound friendly, but honestly, I don't know what you mean.

[tombogan03884]

Sorry, my vocab is not up to date. What do you mean by that? It doesn't sound friendly, but honestly, I don't know what you mean.

Sorry, It's a sarcastic / humorous way of saying that I think you are an internet troll trying to use the unfortunate death of a child to stir dissension. It is a reference to the Fairy tale of the 3 Billy Goats Gruff, from the Grimm collection.

[Sponsor]

[MikeBjerum]

I didn't know forums are "off bounds" to people of a different mindsets - that's interesting...
We'll all get really far, when we discuss things with people who share our opinions exactly.

I wouldn't say that this forum is only open to those of like mind, but the "debate" can get pretty hot and heavy when we are challenged.  If you wish to enter that kind of debate we will use it as an exercise to keep ourselves strong.  If you are only here to stir the pot and cause trouble it will not be pleasant.

If you want to try something just for fun you can always ask Haz for a recommendation on clips.  He is really helpful  

[oldeurope]

Sorry, It's a sarcastic / humorous way of saying that I think you are an internet troll trying to use the unfortunate death of a child to stir dissension.

No, I'm not using anything. I was truly angry and shocked. I was interested, how people who like guns react to that. And I was also a little shocked to see, that no one took this tragedy as a trigger to reflect...
I mean besides: UZIs aren't for kids.

[Ocin]

Weeeelll, why do you ask me to leave and then post that I chickened out when I do?

I didn't know forums are "off bounds" to people of a different mindsets - that's interesting...
We'll all get really far, when we discuss things with people who share our opinions exactly.

And thanks for the friendly advice. That's one way to see it. What do I do, if that "Bad Guy" has a more powerful gun or is faster with it? Do I have to spend all of my spare time practising? Become a Ninja Fighter? Join the marines? Life is full of risks, you live quite relaxed (and quite safe) when everyone acknowledges that fact.

What if and do I have to? What if my aunt had balls, would I have to call her uncle then?

What if the Bad Guy has a bigger gun or is faster with it? Is that relevant in a situation where having a firearm at home is a crime, like it is here in the Netherlands? I am not a criminal, nor do I want to be, so I do not have a gun at home.

Home invasions though do occur in the Netherlands. Maybe not as often and frequently as in the USA, but they do occur here. So, because of it being a very slim chance I do not have a "need" for a firearm as a tool for self protection? Some people here in the Netherlands have decided that that is the way it should be, as if these people can guarantee that my home will never be invaded. But who will catch the bullet with my name on it when it has been fired because I was not able to defend myself?

[tombogan03884]

No, I'm not using anything. I was truly angry and shocked. I was interested, how people who like guns react to that. And I was also a little shocked to see, that no one took this tragedy as a trigger to reflect...

There is little to reflect upon, an unfortunate accident occurred, We have discussed many possible contributing factors but the news stories have not provided enough details to draw any REAL conclusions as to how or if this could have been avoided.
Statistically firearms accidents list so far down on actuarial tables as to be irrelevant. To put it crudely "sh!t happens" but it happens at an astronomically higher rate with Cars, stairs,and swimming pools. Are you aware that in the US with the best medical profession in the world there are 100,000 annual cases of "Medical misadventure", that's "death by doctors mistake ".

To support Ocin's post, compare the number of "Home invasions" in England with the number that occur in Switzerland.

[fullautovalmet76]

Here's something:

http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/article-nazilaw.pdf

It's a scholarly article about how the NAZI's handled firearms ownership.....