Waterboarding

[twyacht]

Actually, if we're talking about water bording Stallone, who is pro--gun control AFTER making his millions as Rambo, I'll bring the popcorn.
FQ13

Yes, but ask Bruce Willis or Tom Selleck about gun control. I like my popcorn lightly buttered.

[2HOW]

Somehow, I think I mentioned that that's not the point. Its about reciprocity. If you would call it torture if it were done to Jessica Lynch, don't do it! Why do you not get that?
FQ13
PS For anybody who thinks I'm an idealistic idiot (yes you Tom) bear in mind that the Nazis summarily executed or worse, captured Sovs. Our guys, and the Brits were generally, though not always, treated ok (for very large values of ok, but still a lot better than the alternative). This was in part motivated by racial ideology, but also because they knew we were treating their guys decently. And this was from the folks that brought you Auschwitz.
FQ13

  Reciprocity, RECIPROCITY, I say we pull their nuts off and their finger nails and then behead them, then lets see what they say. Reciprocity my big ass . You my friend have a distorted view of whats happening.

[tt11758]

I remember that my dear old, departed daddy used to tell me, "Son, there's no problem that can't be solved by talking it out.  Ocassionally you have to get their attention first, but then you can talk."

The problem, as I see it, is one of language differences.  Too many in the United States, starting in the White House, seem to want to sit in a circle, hold hands with the terrorists, and sing Kumbaya.  Sdaly, however, the language that our enemies understand is cruelty and barbarism.  Perhaps it's time to "get their attention" by "speaking their language" for a while.

[Middle Man]

Wasn't Demi Moore waterboarded (more or less) in GI Jane???

[TAB]

Wasn't Demi Moore waterboarded (more or less) in GI Jane???

same idea, diffrent way of doing it.

Torture is known for not being a reliable way of gathering intell.   People will say/do anything to make it stop. 

I still have not made up my mind rather I like our goverment using torture or not.  Water boarding when done correctly is torture...

otherwsie its just a shower.

[Sponsor]

[Rastus]

...............
Torture is known for not being a reliable way of gathering intell.   People will say/do anything to make it stop. 
..........

Tab, I'm allright with your statements.  I understand, there are a lot of people who say that data is unreliable and how it's become somewhat of a mantra of the MSM.  Someone who has no information may be motivated to say something he thinks will make the process stop, thereby getting unreliable data.  I'll go that far with you.

I digress when general statements, like "unreliable information", are foisted on the public as fact to be gobbled up...I question specifically the way that "unreliable information" is used by many...just like the misleading and twisted statements put out by our government to lead us to believe Mexican drug lords were being outfitted by the Wal Mart in El Paso or Corpus Christi.

How much reliable information is gathered....apparently enough to stop a lot of bad things and keep a lot of people alive.  Then again, it's coming from government officials.  Who do you believe, and that's where discernment comes in.  Who is it (in your opinion) that has made misleading, twisted and patently untrue statements in attempts to deceive?  Who said they were going to do one thing...and did another...but hey, it's allright they were trying to get elected...we all knew what "he-she-whoever" really meant (  ) nudge, nudge, wink, wink. 

Whether left or right, lying is lying.  The US Government, especially the portion called politician, has been doing that for quite some time and the lies are ramping up.  In a past life I worked with people who provided security who came from military intelligence (no, it's not a misnomer), FBI, the NSA etc.  So, believe my statement or not, but the people who I worked with were straight shooters so if I err, I do it wisely towards the intelligence community in whom I still have a measure of faith.  I remember their chagrin when Clinton, pushing the peace dividend, gutted the intelligence community...as I remember one of them saying in the early 90's after terrorists tried to bomb the WTC and bring it down that an airplane being flown into one of the Twin Towers was a threat...despite the lies of the politicians to the contrary that they were never informed.

I'm good with waterboarding and I don't buy the rather thin arguement that not waterboarding protects our troops.  If you have the opinion that no good comes from it, just reflect upon the sources and reliability of the data you used to come up with that opinion.  I truly believe that terrorists and fanatics, who don't care about killing civies as a course of terror, are deterred from murdering and torturing troops by us omitting a tool to protect ourselves with.  And, I ask, can anyone who believes our troops will be protected in mass from terrorist torture by not waterboarding be truly sane? 

[fightingquaker13]

I'm good with waterboarding and I don't buy the rather thin arguement that not waterboarding protects our troops.  If you have the opinion that no good comes from it, just reflect upon the sources and reliability of the data you used to come up with that opinion.  I truly believe that terrorists and fanatics, who don't care about killing civies as a course of terror, are deterred from murdering and torturing troops by us omitting a tool to protect ourselve with.  And, I ask, can anyone who believes our troops will be protected in mass from terrorist torture by not waterboarding be truly sane? 

Rastus
I specifically left out the morality of torture in my critique of torture. It was about the threat I think it poses to our standing abroad and threats to our troops in future wars. You however make it very clear that you are a Christian, so I'll ask you point blank. I don't mean this to be insulting, its just an honest question. Could someone who wore a WWJD (what would Jesus do) bracelet on their hand waterboard someone if they honestly gave a damn what the answer was? I have my thoughts, but I'd like to hear yours.
FQ13

[TAB]

its not just people that don't know anything.  People that do can and have gave bad intel knowing that it would make the torture stop and you waste time/resorces.  granted those are only the "hardcore" and are very rare.

I'd really like to know the truth about how much good intel we actually get from doing things like this.

No one is ever going to release that info

i'd bet we get very little..

[Thanos]

Rastus
I specifically left out the morality of torture in my critique of torture. It was about the threat I think it poses to our standing abroad and threats to our troops in future wars.

I am not under the impression that our troops will be treated nicely by any militant extreamist. Daniel Pearl is the best example of that, what did reporters do to the Taliban? I don't recall CNN cutting the head off anyone.

You however make it very clear that you are a Christian, so I'll ask you point blank. I don't mean this to be insulting, its just an honest question. Could someone who wore a WWJD (what would Jesus do) bracelet on their hand waterboard someone if they honestly gave a damn what the answer was? I have my thoughts, but I'd like to hear yours.

I am against waterboarding because we prosecuted Japanese for it after WWII. But I think that waterboarding is far from torture. On the other hand, I think waterbaording is the adult form of "Dunking" at the pool. I have had my older brother hold my head underwater while we were swimming and playing about. Sure I was scared and it wasn't fun at the time, but how many people have I walked up behind and dunked? Loads!

In my book torture isn't discomfort or being scared in a box with a bug, that is childish crap. Torture is being torn apart on a rack, stuffed into the iron maiden and then casterated. No lasting pain, no torture.

It is retarded and counterintuitive to think that if we don't waterboard, they won't cut our heads off. They will always cut our heads off, burn our bodies and booby trap them for others to get hurt. We are not in the business of ripping fingernails out, we splash water on someone's face for two minutes. Please; That is not torture (Illegal under our own standards, maybe) And as for what I think Jesus would think...

Father forgive them...for they know not what they do.
I think he would be able to forgive me for something like waterboarding.

[ericire12]

On the other hand, I think waterbaording is the adult form of "Dunking" at the pool. I have had my older brother hold my head underwater while we were swimming and playing about. Sure I was scared and it wasn't fun at the time, but how many people have I walked up behind and dunked? Loads!

In my book torture isn't discomfort or being scared in a box with a bug, that is childish crap. Torture is being torn apart on a rack, stuffed into the iron maiden and then casterated. No lasting pain, no torture.

Is water boarding Torture? No.

Hazing? Yes.