Mk 24 MOD O Combat Assault Pistol a foot in the door?

[MikeO]

Is the USN SEAL's newest pistol (HK's HK45CT) a foot in the door for a new military pistol for everybody I mean.

It meets the specs of the last pistol attempt (the MHS/Modular Handgun System), which was a conglomeration of all that came before (FHS/Future Handgun System, SOF-CP/Special Operations Forces - Combat Pistol, JCP/Joint Combat Pistol, AFH/Air Force Handgun, AFFH/Air Force Future Handgun). All cancelled and/or suspended. I think. Hard to keep up, they kept coming and going...

With money as tight as it is, a new pistol trial could be a tough sell when we still have contract options on up to 450,000 more Berettas and up to 18 million more mags for them?

If the HK45CT is good enough for NSWDG/DEVGRU/ST6, it should be good enough for everybody else in one form or another? The HK45C could work for LE, Security, pilots, air and armor crews, etc. It could be configured DA/SA, DAO, SAO, LEM, with or w/o safety/decocker as desired.

I was issued the M15, M1911A1, M9, and M11. I've been shooting an HK45C since 2009, and I like it was well/better as all of them, and it would do all the same missions as well/better IMO.

So DOD could buy a few hundred thousand and forget about pistols for another 25 yrs or so? Or not. Legions of lawyers would start cryin'...

[fightingquaker13]

Honestly I really don't understand why they don't buy Glocks in 9mm, or better yet .45 or 10mm. They are idiot proof and unbreakable. There is no safety, but the same was true of the revolvers the army carried for more than a few years. If the NYPD aren't shooting themselves I think they are soldier safe. Failing that, I'd stick with the 1911s. They are inferior to the Glock for combat in that they require more maintenance and hold fewer rounds, but that said they've done the job for 100 years and are vastly preferable to a Beretta using an FMJ 9mm. Plus we must have a ton of them in inventory. Just my .02.
FQ13

[GASPASSERDELUXE]

Honestly I really don't understand why they don't buy Glocks in 9mm, or better yet .45 or 10mm. They are idiot proof and unbreakable. There is no safety, but the same was true of the revolvers the army carried for more than a few years. If the NYPD aren't shooting themselves I think they are soldier safe. Failing that, I'd stick with the 1911s. They are inferior to the Glock for combat in that they require more maintenance and hold fewer rounds, but that said they've done the job for 100 years and are vastly preferable to a Beretta using an FMJ 9mm. Plus we must have a ton of them in inventory. Just my .02.
FQ13

Not quite unbreakable. i had my g22 out a few days ago and the trigger bar broke into two pieces. I took it back where i bought because they warrenty all guns sold there. The glock repairman said he had never seen or heard of one breaking there. They didn't even have the part in stock and had to take it out of a new gun. 30 minutes in and out, should be good for several more years.

[Timothy]

I don't own a Glock, nor do I wish too.  Nothing against them at all but it's a plastic gun, made from an injection molding process that is subject to the same problems that any casting or injection process is subjected to. 

Inclusions (voids in the injected/cast materials) can form and create weak or fatigue points that are not easily found without advanced NDT (non destructive testing) techniques that are costly and time consuming.

Production lines are what they are, get the most out of them in a specified time frame or lose money.  The frames are the weak point in a Glock.  The slide, firing mechanism and most of the magazine are steel or stainless steel and milled to a specified tolerance.  The trigger mechanism is tried and true but still subject to the weak link in the chain.

I seriously doubt that a Glock could pass the military's minimum requirements which has always required a mechanical safety whether it's actually used or not.

[Timothy]

P.S.

I know the HK is plastic too so the same thing goes.  Stuff happens, sometimes when you don't want it too...

[Sponsor]

[twyacht]

As Teddy Roosevelt once remarked inspecting an 1895 Winchester in .405 caliber,....."What must an American President do to get a proper fitting rifle?.....Go to England?"

Sad there is not an American Manufacturing Co. that the Military/Gov't cannot seem to deem worthy for large scale deployment.

I understand SpecOps, SEALS, Special Forces, etc,.. require a niche firearm, but on a large scale contract?

Really? America doesn't measure up for a combat pistol for the vast majority of troops that are not in a specialized units?

ex. M9 with FMJ's? Again,...Really? Good pistol,.sure, but so is an M&P .45. or a Para.

I know military contracts are HK's bread & butter, as their retail customer service stinks, IMHO, and they are top shelf pistols, as they should be, but no American contenders at all?

[Timothy]

Uniformity prevails in the military.  It was too costly to change from the M9 to an alternate for the lions share of the troops.

The Pentagon gives the contract to the lowest bidder for the most part.  Specialized troops have a different budget, always have!

If we could have produced the 1911 in 1985 for the same cost as the Beretta, I have little doubt that the 1911 would still be the standard sidearm with an increased capacity or downsized to the more NATO preferred 9 x 19 Luger cartridge.

[tombogan03884]

As far as material, nothing in Tim's post about the Glock is not also true of steel pistols.
Nothing is unbreakable, nothing is idiot proof.
The only valid complaint I have ever heard about the Glock is that some people find the grip geometry uncomfortable.
US military small arms must, by law, be produced in the US, Glock is, HK isn't.

[MikeO]

US military small arms must, by law, be produced in the US, Glock is, HK isn't.

Not 'zactly.

The M9s were not produced in the US until the 3rd year of the first 5 year contract. The first year they were made and assembled in Itlay, the second year made there, assembled here, the third through fifth made and assembled here (Accokeek MD). The M11 (SIG P228) was not made in the US either.

Glock and HK both have US plants making pistols and/or parts now anyway (so does SIG SAUER and FN). The HK plant in Newington NH makes HK 45s.

BTW, Beretta USA, HK USA, SIG SAUER USA, FN USA, etc are all considered "American" companies as far as awarding contracts goes. Isn't that nifty?

The Glock has been adopted w success by many other countries, but going by the specs the US military keeps asking for the last 15 yrs or so (FHS, SOF-CP, JCP, CP, AFH, AFFH, MHS programs mentioned above) they have something else in mind.

[tombogan03884]

Not 'zactly.

The M9s were not produced in the US until the 3rd year of the first 5 year contract. The first year they were made and assembled in Itlay, the second year made there, assembled here, the third through fifth made and assembled here (Accokeek MD). The M11 (SIG P228) was not made in the US either.

Glock and HK both have US plants making pistols and/or parts now anyway (so does SIG SAUER and FN). The HK plant in Newington NH makes HK 45s.

BTW, Beretta USA, HK USA, SIG SAUER USA, FN USA, etc are all considered "American" companies as far as awarding contracts goes. Isn't that nifty?

The Glock has been adopted w success by many other countries, but going by the specs the US military keeps asking for the last 15 yrs or so (FHS, SOF-CP, JCP, CP, AFH, AFFH, MHS programs mentioned above) they have something else in mind.

When did that open ? I haven't been out of the state for more than 12 hours at a time in over a decade, 3 years were living in the next town over from Newington (Exeter, where Sig is ) and this is the 1st I've heard of it.