The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: alfsauve on December 06, 2014, 09:05:19 AM
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I'm thinking this thread might be a place we collect all those crazy arm-chair-tactical things we've heard at the range.
In the lane next to me was a young lady getting her first shooting lesson by an "instructor", maybe a friend, but definitely not a close one by the conversation. I've never seen him at the range before and I know he's not one of the stores employees. Possibly a LEO she approached about getting a gun for SD. Going through the basics; safety, loading, unloading, aiming, stance, grip. They were using what appeared to be a G17. Everything was sounding okay, until he said:
"Never, ever dry fire a gun. It will damage the gun"
I took a short break and listened to see if there was some context. I can see with a newbie, how you might, at first, discourage dry firing as a way to minimize ND. Especially with a casual shooter who probably won't fire more than a 100 rounds a year, if even that. But I think he seriously believe what he said. Oh well, if she does pursue shooting and practicing seriously, she'll discover the benefit of dry firing down the road.
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Never ever dry fire a rimfire as it will damage the gun.
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Not what the instructor said, nor what they were shooting.
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I realize that but it's always a good idea to throw out the reminder that very few rules are absolute.
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I dry fire everything except rimfire and those that recommend using snap caps.
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I dry fire everything except rimfire and those that recommend using snap caps.
Empty case will serve the same purpose and can be used in rimfires since you just do not want the steel firing pin striking on the edge of the chamber and peening metal into the chamber mouth.
(Yes, I DID run out of buttons to click ;D
It actually looks pretty cool though ;D )
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following the advice given to never dry fire any gun will make it impossible to field strip that glock they're shooting... :o ::) ::) ??? ???
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Empty case will serve the same purpose and can be used in rimfires since you just do not want the steel firing pin striking on the edge of the chamber and peening metal into the chamber mouth.
(Yes, I DID run out of buttons to click ;D
It actually looks pretty cool though ;D )
If you want to avoid damage on a rimfire I think you're supposed to rotate the case so it strikes a different spot every time. Maybe not.
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If you want to avoid damage on a rimfire I think you're supposed to rotate the case so it strikes a different spot every time. Maybe not.
I don't know that you HAVE TO. Just so long as the firing pin isn't hitting steel.
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My Savage 1903 rifle is beat to shite from too may hits from the firing pin.
My Pop, a tool & die maker for forty years and weekend gunsmith, hand made the firing pin and a few other of the action parts over fifty years ago. Me thinks he missed the mark on a few parts since the breech face and chamber have been beaten to death over the years from a misaligned firing pin. I can't shoot anything but shorts in it now. Too much pressure with long or long rifle and the case expands and the extractor can't remove the case from the chamber.
I don't shoot it anymore. It just gets cleaned and lubed yearly now...
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One day at the range, many moons ago:
I was practicing for an upcoming Bullseye match and was shooting quite well.
A few spots over from me at the range, a guy was showing a woman the ins-and-outs of shooting.
I heard him tell her to always use two hands when shooting.
She promptly asked why, and he said because you can just shoot better that way (now, I don't necessarily disagree with the technicality of this statement, but this is not germane to the situation here).
She then said, "That guy over there is only using one hand."
To which he replied, "Well, he's doing it all wrong."
Followed by her saying, "Well, he's shooting way better than you..... look at all the holes in the middle of his target.....yours are all over the place."
Next thing I know, they're packing up and leaving.
:o
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following the advice given to never dry fire any gun will make it impossible to field strip that glock they're shooting... :o ::) ::) ??? ???
That's the first thing I though of as well. It would have been fun to have walked over to him and asked him that, just to get his reaction after being made a horses ass in front of the woman he was supposedly "instructing".
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I'm been blessed in that I've rarely seen or overheard derp at public ranges: I've either been able to reserve a bay to myself, or else the other people at the range were far enough away that their stupid did not rub off on me.
The best, I guess, was two young men engaged who were in accuracy contest with a shared Beretta 92. One was shooting with a decent thumbs-forward grip, the other was using a classic teacup Weaver and was AMAZED at how well his friend was shooting.
Holding my tongue at that moment was difficult, but I managed to do it.
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One of the best ones I have heard was a guy a couple of table down from me complaining that his AR was a POS and must have a bent barrel, as he could not hit anything with it, after a number of mags and a target that was free of holes, he was getting frustrated. I went over to see if I could help, well he was one that bought on a panic, the salesman said he needed a scope, and a .50 cal ammo can of ammo, then sent him on his way.
Turns out he knew nothing about his AR other than how to put a mag in and pull the charging handle, I ended up showing him how to open the rifle, pull the bolt carrier out and so on, we then moved the target in to 25 yrds and did a bore sighting and a rough scope setting, it was so far off that when I looked thru the bore, then the scope, the cross hairs were a good 12 inches off center at 25 yrds, in a few shots I had it hitting center with the scope and then adjusted the peep sights.
After 30 minutes, he was hitting at 100 yrds and was a happy camper, other than he had wasted all but 4 mags of ammo by not knowing what he was doing, nice thing is, as he was getting ready to leave, I asked if he reloaded, he didn't so I offered to pick up his brass, he not only picked up all his brass, he put it in the ammo can and then left it on my table.
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The best I ever heard was " you can shoot a 308 in a 3006, its just like a 357 and 38."
I packed up and left, the ro was notified on the way out.
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Excellent Peg. See that's another one of those pieces of advice taken too far. Sure shooting two hands can provide better support/control, but it's not an absolute as some yahoos try to teach it.
Kevin, it's hard sometimes not to jump in. If it's a serious safety matter, I'll will but in regardless. Sometimes, like Shoot Th Guns did, you can provide friendly help without seeming like a butinski.
Tab: Sometimes that's also the best, just walk away and tell the RO. Let them handle it. I think ROs could write a book on the things they've seen.
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I tried to post a reply to TAB yesterday but I was speechless. Wow. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around that one.
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I tried to post a reply to TAB yesterday but I was speechless. Wow. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around that one.
which is why I got the hell out of there, I want to be no where near that when it goes off
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which is why I got the hell out of there, I want to be no where near that when it goes off
Not to worry.
It probably will NOT go off. since there will be no resistance to cause the extractor to snap into the groove the round will probably just slide into the chamber and lay there.
Would be different with a controlled feed, like a Mauser, where the extractor grabs the shell on feeding it would be different, the shell would be held for the firing pin to hit it, but it would cause a heck of a mess.
In a good quality gun it should be SAFE enough (once)since 308 pressures a lower than -06, but split casing and sh!t accuracy are pretty much guaranteed.
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it would fire form the .308 to the 30-06 chamber would most likely have the shoulder blown out.
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you are correct most likely out come is fire formed and stuck case, but I don't want to be any where close to the type of person that would say something like that.
what if they roll their own? want to stand near them for their home made rounds? :o
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Never ever dry fire a rimfire as it will damage the gun.
Unless the design specifically permits it (i.e. by not permitting the firing pin to strike the breach face). The 10/22 is one example.
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Tom Gresham had a guy from Ruger on his radio show Sunday. He was talking about the new Ruger BX Trigger which is a 2-1/2 pound, drop in trigger for the 10/22. He said it does not hurt a Ruger 10/22 to be dry fired, because they heat treat the breach face of the barrel so the firing pin cannot peen against it.
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um so they are saying they treat the barrel to be soft?
why on earth would you do that?
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Hard TAB. Instead of peening material off the breach you flatten the nose of the firing pin.
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so you take out the firing pin, seems like the best solution is to just not dry fire.
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um so they are saying they treat the barrel to be soft? why on earth would you do that?
No, just the opposite. I guess I worded it wrong. They harden the face of the barrel so the firing pin cannot peen the chamber. It apparently doesn't effect the shape of the firing pin when this happens. The point the guy was trying to make is it is perfectly acceptable to dry fire a Ruger 10/22. I still wouldn't do it, except to unload the firing pin spring before I put the gun away.
Come to think of it, I've never seen a .22 that was damaged by dry firing. I'm not saying it hasn't happened. But if it's so bad one would think there would be a lot more examples of older .22's damaged from this.
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I've seen them with the chamber so peened that a bullet could not pass never mind the casing behind it.
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Come to think of it, I've never seen a .22 that was damaged by dry firing. I'm not saying it hasn't happened. But if it's so bad one would think there would be a lot more examples of older .22's damaged from this.
I have and it could have gotten me killed. It was on my Savage 22 pump that was my Dad's as a kid so it was from the 50's. I had it with in my college apartment and one night someone was trying to break in. One thing I can tell you is that longest time of your life is waiting for the cops to show up in a situation like that. After I called the cops I was up on the second floor trying to get a round in the chamber of that old pump but it wouldn't budge. Turns out all that dry fire practice me and my roommates did deformed the breach enough to prevent a round to go in. Luckily once the burglars heard the sirens they fled and never made it up to the second floor.
It must not be that uncommon because Brownells sells a swage that will fix this type of thing. I still have that pump and it works great but I have something a little better for home defense now days. :)
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It must not be that uncommon because Brownells sells a swage that will fix this type of thing. I still have that pump and it works great but I have something a little better for home defense now days. :)
I imagine it would take little to remove any metal that was "moved" by the firing pin. A healthy burr would be about all.
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... that a bullet could not pass never mind the casing behind it.
I'm sure Tom know this but it wasn't something I realize till a while back.
The bullet and the cartridge case have the same diameter in a .22lr unlike "regular" cartridges. Another one that comes to mind is the .38 Short Colt (the real one, not the ones I reload with .357 bullets).
So if the bullet will fit in a chamber so will the case on a .22lr
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Alf, the round nose of the lead 22 would not pass all the way in.
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;)
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;)
Fly. you fools.