Author Topic: Springfield Armory M1A  (Read 20999 times)

nupe

  • Very Active Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 174
  • 4/19/1775
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Springfield Armory M1A
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2009, 12:28:39 PM »
Just wanted to add that if anyone goes that route make sure to get the ammo from Portugal, the stuff from Czech is corosive.

Ping

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1785
  • Glock Certified Armorer & NRA Certified Instructor
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Springfield Armory M1A
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2009, 09:22:49 PM »
I agree about drooling over the SOCOM. One bad ass rifle. Went to buy a M1A on Saturday. It was already sold. The price tag was over $1,400. I was rather bummed but there are gun shows coming up that may provide an opportunity.

MAUSERMAN

  • Murder yoga specialist
  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1177
  • guns girls prepare
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 148
Re: Springfield Armory M1A
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2009, 11:29:57 PM »
Springfield Armory PORN!!! :o
Judokas 🥋make the world tremble IPPON

JSC3ATLCSO

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Springfield Armory M1A
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2009, 11:33:12 PM »
Springfield Armory PORN!!! :o



Totally envious!

USSA-1

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 202
    • US Shooting Academy
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Springfield Armory M1A
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2009, 07:46:25 AM »
IMHO, I would pass on the SOCOM II, or the SOCOM I for that matter. 

All that glitters is not gold.

Stick with the Scout or the standard size.  Both are outstanding setups.

USSA-1
"Occupo Mens"
Win the Fight

Watch The Tactical Rifle Channel

Sponsor

  • Guest
Re: Springfield Armory M1A
« Reply #15 on: Today at 01:20:21 AM »

long762range

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 408
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Springfield Armory M1A
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2009, 08:51:23 AM »
IMHO, I would pass on the SOCOM II, or the SOCOM I for that matter. 

All that glitters is not gold.

Stick with the Scout or the standards size.  Both are outstanding setups.

USSA-1

USSA-1 I trust your opionion.  Why do you not recommend the SOCOMs.  Reliability?  Controlability? 
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous.  If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for."

USSA-1

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 202
    • US Shooting Academy
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Springfield Armory M1A
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2009, 10:35:46 AM »
Quote
Why do you not recommend the SOCOMs.  Reliability?  Controlability?


If you want one fun the sheer fun of it then have at it; they are fun to shoot.

If you are looking for a serious social rifle, then I would look elsewhere. 

I want to preface my comments by saying that what follows is not an indictment of Springfield Armory or the quality of their products.  The SOCOM line is a very fine product, but I think SA is doing quite a disservice when they target the LE/ Home defense market with this particular product.  I think somebody at SA is attempting to capitalize on the M1A's reputation and they didn't quite think through the needs of the end user for their target market.

Allow me a quick digression on the SOCOM design.  The significance of this point will be illuminated later.  In order for SA to shorten the M1A's barrel from 18" to 16" required a slight redesign of the gas system.  A critical feature of any gas operated design is gas dwell time.  In order for a gas system to operate reliably, there has to be a "minimum barrel length" after the gas port in the barrel for the venting gas to enter the gas system with enough pressure to cycle the action.  There are several factors at work here, barrel length, gas port size, powder burn rate, etc.  Generally, 4"-6" of additional barrel length past the gas port is a good standard.  When you start reducing the barrel length, you start reducing the gas dwell time, or the amount of time the gas system will be pressurized before the bullet exits the barrel and your gas pressure drops off significantly and quite rapidly.  There are two primary ways to offset this problem.  The easiest way is to increase the size of the gas port, which allows a larger volume of gas to enter the system quicker to run the system.  The problem with this is that you can only go so big.  If you still need some gas dwell time to pressurize the system before it will operate, then the second way you can solve this problem is with a device called a gas booster.  This device provides an area for expanding gases to collect with only a small opening to vent, creating an increase in back pressure.  This back pressure increase provides additional gas and dwell time for short barrel setups, allowing them to operate more reliably.  Examples of this are the Russian AK-74 "Krinkov's" with their booster/flash suppressor setups and the Noveske flaming pig brakes for the short barreled AR's.

Understanding this, SA needed to redesign their gas system on the SOCOM's to work with a 16" barrel.  If you notice where the gas block is on the SOCOM, you'll notice about 1"-2" of barrel after the gas block (if that!)  SA needed a way to increase the gas/back pressure to make the SOCOM work with such a short barrel.  So they used a compensator/booster design.  This compensator provided an area for gas to collect, increasing backpressure, to work the system.  Additionally, they vented the gas in a vertical manner to drive the muzzle down, assisting with the controlablity of the rifle.  And it works great!  It seemed to be a win/win all around.  There was just one problem.  SA choose to market this rifle to primarily LE/MIL units.  Of course they are also for the civilian market, but every advertisement I've seen shows some high speed SWAT team using it on a raid or some MIL guy dragging it through the mud. 

Here's my issue with it.  Have you ever fired a 308 round from a short 16" barrel?  If you haven't then your missing out on some pretty impressive fireworks, not to mention quite a muzzle blast.  Now try it with a compensator that increases muzzle blast and flash upwards in your face.  You get an even bigger show.  Now try all this at night or in a low-light environment.  I am not exaggerating when I say, "Nuke mushroom cloud!"  Considering that over 85% of all LE shootings are in a dark/low-light environment, you've got one shot before you see the "Nuke cloud" and your vision is completely destroyed.  I don't mean the occasional white dots in the eye, I mean you are done!  Your ride is over, get in the back of the line you want another turn.

On one occasion, I attempted to follow a student through a shoot house during the low-light portion of our rifle course.  After the first shot, I couldn't see him.  I was completely blind.  I had to shine my flashlight at his feet to follow him around the house.  I didn't see anything he did and I the only piece of advice I could give him was to consider another rifle.  At the end of the run he only hit 3 of 8 targets and completely missed 2 of them because he couldn't see them.  It was most unimpressive to say the least.

I really don't know what SA was thinking when they targeted the LE market for this setup.  Until they can redesign the system to operate using a good flash suppressor, this particular rifle is completely unsuitable for LE or self defensive use if there is any chance it will get used in a low-light or reduced light environment.  In its current form, I cannot recommend the SOCOM line for any serious social work, but it is fun to shoot in the daytime.

USSA-1

"Occupo Mens"
Win the Fight

Watch The Tactical Rifle Channel

long762range

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 408
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Springfield Armory M1A
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2009, 10:53:08 AM »
Thank you.  Very well thought out answer.   :)
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous.  If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for."

Big Frank

  • NRA Benefactor Member
  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9649
  • DRTV Ranger
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1109
Re: Springfield Armory M1A
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2009, 07:00:21 PM »
The muzzle blast and fireball that Erik mentions is the reason the army never issued any short barreled tanker model M1s or M14s.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

JSC3ATLCSO

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Springfield Armory M1A
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2009, 09:04:22 PM »
I guess I didn't clarify which one I ordered.. But thank you for re-affirming why I am not a fan of short barreled guns.  I ordered the "Loaded" Standard model with the Synthetic stock and Stainless barrel.  They have a Standard model that has a cluster rail on it also but I opt'ed not to spend the additional $300.  I though that 1575 was enough to spend

Thanks for all of the great feedback and keep it coming. 

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk