Springfield Armory M1A

[m25operator]

That is NICE BillT.

To FQ13, with the aimpoint I have only shot to 200, and it was 4", I have not shot it for group since I put the Vortec on it, I have heard it often improves accuracy, but need some range time to wring it out. I just wished I'd kept the Dale Rader trigger from my M25.

[JSC3ATLCSO]

Hey all.. Thanks for all of the input and jealousy..

[JdePietro]

http://www.smithenterprise.com/products06.html

Smith Enterprises now offers a replacement flash hider for the Socom 16/II system that replaces the dragons breath OE part. I have never witnessed a SE vortex flash hider privide less than spectacular performance.

[USSA-1]

That could make all the difference in the world. 

Where's a guinea pig when you need him.

USSA-1

[JdePietro]

Sorry about my super short repsonse but I was on my way out the door...

The Springfield M1A, or the civilian version of the M14 is a semi automatic, air cooled piston operated Goddess of the battle field. Utillizing a gas under, short stroke piston system makes the rifle a reliable, ammo miscable combat rifle. However the rifle is built on a very old design and has certain quirks, likes and dislikes that most oftenly do not agree with the modern shooter.

Pros:
Very reliable, not quite on par with a good AK but it isn't the kind of rifle you need to clean after every trip to the range. Accuracy is far better than what is needed and with the proper understanding of the rifle, fine tuning the accuracy will put it on par with a bolt gun.

Cons:
Complexity, this is not an easy rifle to maintain. You need a handful of tools grease and oil for the appropriate areas and knowledge of the system.
Weight adds up when you have 20 rounds of 7.62x51 in steel magazines riding along.

Quirks:
Magazines must be rocked in and out some what like an AK. To someone familiar with system it is not a con but for those used to the drop free mags in rifles like the AR, HK, and Sig systems it takes getting used to.
Expense is up there, personally if I were selecting a rifle to be used in defense of my life I would want the best of the best and price would be a non issue. However not everyone has an expendable budget and you shouldn't have to sell yourself short when dealing with this system.

Conclusion:
I don't think comparing the M14 to the AR is fair or right. They both are excellent rifles, they both run when the operator learned their inherent traits and both can be transformed into a good defense rifle. I do feel that in a civilian setting the M4 varients have some advantages over the 14 but I don't feel those points rule out using, owning or relying on the 14 system. I personally have a SA M1A and if I had to get rid of or leave behind all of my firearms but one I can most confidently say that the M1A would come with me. 


JD out.
 

[Sponsor]

[JSC3ATLCSO]

I guess when I say I'm not a fan of AR's it is due to not being a fan of 5.56.. I like to have big lead going downrange and when comparing the price of an AR-10 to and M1A nearly a wash (especially if you get a ZM or LWRC short stroker) I have heard that there more reliability issues with the .308 AR's than regular 5.56 AR's (more powder = More cleaning) and the relatively low maintenance of the M1A's 2ndly since I already own a Weatherby .30-06 bolt rifle the .308 is going to have the same bullet's and primers for reloading.  JD.. thanks for the info very good pros and cons.. making me feel better and better about my decision to purchase.  Just wish it would hurry up and get here

[JdePietro]

You are of course very welcome.

I love the 14 system! When I was a young pup my father went out to a local CMP match to catch up with some brothers from Vietnam and I just happened to tag along. One of his friends was shooting a SA M1A that I am almost sure was worked on by the Old Corp Weaponry. Anywho long story short I got to shoot a string and that was it. I kept all 10 shots in 6 inches at 300 and I was hooked, I doubt I would be where I am today had I not shot that rifle.

Stories aside, I think the 5.56 is an optimum round for civilians to use as a defense round, with all the "trick" ammo out there for it you can get even the 55gr's to look like a much bigger bullet. Caliber wars I think will wage on long after we are laid to rest but in this day and age with the techno tacticoolness we have, I find it to be a none issue when selecting a rifle for defense.

[billt]

I had my M-1A out last week for a trial run. It shot flawlessly with Winchester White Box, Federal "Power Shock", and some handloads I had prepared, but not for this gun. It was pretty windy, but the gun required very little adjustment of the sights to consistently ring 12" gongs at 200 yards from the sitting position after printing a few targets from a rest at 100 yards. The gun shoots far better than my 56 year old eyes can. I've found myself needing glasses now whenever I shoot iron sights. It's the only way I can maintain a sharp picture of the sights. The gun is quite easy to maintain as well. The piston comes out easily allowing the gas system to be cleaned and maintained. I oiled the piston and gas tube lightly because I most likely won't be shooting it again until fall when the temperature breaks. The problem out here in the Summer months is once you get the weapon hot, it takes forever for it to cool off. I'm going to be loading a bunch of .308 over the Summer, both for this gun and my 2 Savages. Come next fall I plan to put a lot downrange. I just came from Cabela's and bought another box of Lapua Brass in .308. They're starting to get some powder in, and have a 2 pound limit per customer per day. I also saw a new Sig 556 and a synthetic stocked Springfield Armory M-1A on the rack. I think things are starting to return to normal. At least a little bit.  Bill T.

[JdePietro]

I had my M-1A out last week for a trial run. It shot flawlessly with Winchester White Box, Federal "Power Shock", and some handloads I had prepared, but not for this gun. It was pretty windy, but the gun required very little adjustment of the sights to consistently ring 12" gongs at 200 yards from the sitting position after printing a few targets from a rest at 100 yards. The gun shoots far better than my 56 year old eyes can. I've found myself needing glasses now whenever I shoot iron sights. It's the only way I can maintain a sharp picture of the sights. The gun is quite easy to maintain as well. The piston comes out easily allowing the gas system to be cleaned and maintained. I oiled the piston and gas tube lightly because I most likely won't be shooting it again until fall when the temperature breaks. The problem out here in the Summer months is once you get the weapon hot, it takes forever for it to cool off. I'm going to be loading a bunch of .308 over the Summer, both for this gun and my 2 Savages. Come next fall I plan to put a lot downrange. I just came from Cabela's and bought another box of Lapua Brass in .308. They're starting to get some powder in, and have a 2 pound limit per customer per day. I also saw a new Sig 556 and a synthetic stocked Springfield Armory M-1A on the rack. I think things are starting to return to normal. At least a little bit.  Bill T.

The bold is mine and although I think you are well aware of the dangers of oiling the piston I want it to be pointed out to those who are not. Oiling the piston on any piston driven gun unless otherwise specified is not recomended. The amount of pressure that builds up can cause a failure in the system and may result in destruction of property or injury to the shooter. In ideal conditions it will be a pain in the tooter to clean off because it will turn to carbon and most likely will result in a FTF.

Just so ya know.

[m25operator]

I don't know where your really coming from on this one JDe, the pressure from the cartridge is what it is, oil and hydraulics will not increase it, it will make a better temporary seal, the gas bleed on the M1A is small and late in the pressure curve, My original standard grade ( that I love and will not trade ) has the the piston nut so tight, that a 6 point socket and an air impact wrench would not remove, it shot so well, that I quit trying. So after shooting, I put solvent in the bleed hole and raise and lower the barrel and let gravity work the piston, back and forth, flush it with some brake cleaner, and then put a few drops of fp10, again raising and lowering the muzzle to make sure the piston moves freely with no help. I have had this rifle since 1991, and shot U.S. Service rifle with it, also have 8 points toward my distinguished badge with it. Never had a FTF, or bending of the OP Rod, from overpressure.

I just don't see what your describing unless you put enough lube that it got in the barrel and caused an obstruction, and that would be a lot of lube.

Turning to carbon, yes it can, but carbon buildup happens without pistons, from the unburnt gasses passing, look at a normal Direct impingement AR, Carbon happens anyway.

I look forward to more detailed explanation.