Terrorist Attack at Church?

[fightingquaker13]

There is no right answer here. I wrestled with the carrying in chuch issue spiritually. I was against, and changed my mind. Now I do. However, in a large congregation, Tom is right. The largest danger is the panicked crowd, not whatever caused them to panic. Unless you can be the first out the door, don't go there. Find a place to hide, a confessional, the baptismal font, a small side chaple etc. There, you are safe from the crowd and in reasonable range if the BG does turn that corner. You'll be shooting at 20 feet, not 50 yards, which is what a carry gun (and just assuming here) your level of training is geared for. My advice is to ride it out if you have family. If not, then work your way to the BGs if you want, but understand if you can't make a shot reliably on the range, you sure won't under fire. Again, I really think that your fellow parishoners are the biggest threat odds wise in that scenario.
FQ13

[cjwise5]

Thanks for all the great input guys.  I think bad things could happen at any point in this church.  We have already had some crazy guy come waltzing in and right up to the front of the stage during the service and start causing trouble.  It is just as likely that he could have been carrying a gun.  In the same way, the odds are against us that a terrorist attack could occur.  I think i will talk to the leadership team about security concerns.  It doesn't make any sense to me to just ignore this and hope nothing happens.  As far as being prepared and good positioning goes... i just volunteered to run a video camera during the service, which puts me in the back and near most of the exits depending on which camera I'm on.  We have a small handful of cops and active military guys in the crowd every week - perhaps I will see about getting all these guys to keep their eyes peeled each week.

This issue keeps me guessing because there really isn't a good tactical option.  Someone here pointed it out accurately that the distance at which a pistol shot would have to be taken is unrealistic.  Especially given the number of frantic people. 
It might be a good idea for me to keep my long gun in the car on sundays and during an incident, perhaps there would be a chance for me to slip out undetected and get it.  This only takes care of the distance issue - not the frantic people issue however.  I find it hard to believe that a large group of "terrorists" would "takeover" the church, but that's a 50/50 gamble too.  Anyway.. scary times.

[fightingquaker13]

Thanks for all the great input guys.  I think bad things could happen at any point in this church.  We have already had some crazy guy come waltzing in and right up to the front of the stage during the service and start causing trouble.  It is just as likely that he could have been carrying a gun.  In the same way, the odds are against us that a terrorist attack could occur.  I think i will talk to the leadership team about security concerns.  It doesn't make any sense to me to just ignore this and hope nothing happens.  As far as being prepared and good positioning goes... i just volunteered to run a video camera during the service, which puts me in the back and near most of the exits depending on which camera I'm on.  We have a small handful of cops and active military guys in the crowd every week - perhaps I will see about getting all these guys to keep their eyes peeled each week.

This issue keeps me guessing because there really isn't a good tactical option.  Someone here pointed it out accurately that the distance at which a pistol shot would have to be taken is unrealistic.  Especially given the number of frantic people. 
It might be a good idea for me to keep my long gun in the car on sundays and during an incident, perhaps there would be a chance for me to slip out undetected and get it.  This only takes care of the distance issue - not the frantic people issue however.  I find it hard to believe that a large group of "terrorists" would "takeover" the church, but that's a 50/50 gamble too.  Anyway.. scary times.

Cj
In re getting a long gun out and re-entering: do understand that you just painted a big fat target on your butt. LEOs will have have been called by the time you get to your car, grab the rifle and re-enter. They will drop you like a bad habit, thinking you are a terrorist. Your job isn't to be the hero. Its to get your family to safety and let the pros do their job. This might sound cowardly, but its good advice. Don't put yourself in a position where both the BGs and the cops consider you a target. Just my .02
FQ13

[cjwise5]

I agree with you except that I am an LEO and always carry my badge.  Hopefully I would also be the one calling the police and could explain that I was there - giving them a description of myself.  I think under any other circumstances I would not leave to go get a rifle and then re-enter.  It's very difficult to armchair quarterback this problem for me because to be completely honest I am equally torn.  One part of me wants to just run get my family and be out of there as quick as possible.  The other part of me gets really pissed that bad guys would want to harm people I love and a place that is so much more than just a building to me. 

[alfsauve]

I kinda past over this topic for that past few days, but today turned out different.

I work at a church, and it puts a slightly different perspective on it.   We may have some "stalker" around the premesis.   I was asked to walk several ladies to their cars this afternoon.

So now I'm exploring my options as a GA CCW.  Ga law explicitly prohibits carrying firearms, "to" or "at" churches and church functions.  Which means technically, that IF I had a firearm in my car, I would be guilty of a violation.   It also means that if my firearm is stolen from my car while in the church parking lot, I could not report it.   I've got to explore more from a "employee" standpoint.

An interesting side consideration is the three "parsonages" we own on contiguous property.   If those families posses firearms are they guilty of code violation?

Current GA legislature is trying to simplify the law, but I bet they haven't considered cases like mine.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

I kinda past over this topic for that past few days, but today turned out different.

I work at a church, and it puts a slightly different perspective on it.   We may have some "stalker" around the premesis.   I was asked to walk several ladies to their cars this afternoon.

So now I'm exploring my options as a GA CCW.  Ga law explicitly prohibits carrying firearms, "to" or "at" churches and church functions.  Which means technically, that IF I had a firearm in my car, I would be guilty of a violation.   It also means that if my firearm is stolen from my car while in the church parking lot, I could not report it.   I've got to explore more from a "employee" standpoint.

An interesting side consideration is the three "parsonages" we own on contiguous property.   If those families posses firearms are they guilty of code violation?

Current GA legislature is trying to simplify the law, but I bet they haven't considered cases like mine.

Don't know Ga. law, but it would seem that being a security guard at say $1 per year would cover you. My stepdad used to pay me that when he needed me to look up old common law stuff for one of his cases. Just the exchange of money meant that attorney client privelge applied and I couldn't be deposed. Assuming a security guard doesn't mean a special licence, a token payment from the priest should cover you.
FQ13

[garand4life]

I kinda past over this topic for that past few days, but today turned out different.

I work at a church, and it puts a slightly different perspective on it.   We may have some "stalker" around the premesis.   I was asked to walk several ladies to their cars this afternoon.

So now I'm exploring my options as a GA CCW.  Ga law explicitly prohibits carrying firearms, "to" or "at" churches and church functions.  Which means technically, that IF I had a firearm in my car, I would be guilty of a violation.   It also means that if my firearm is stolen from my car while in the church parking lot, I could not report it.   I've got to explore more from a "employee" standpoint.

An interesting side consideration is the three "parsonages" we own on contiguous property.   If those families posses firearms are they guilty of code violation?

Current GA legislature is trying to simplify the law, but I bet they haven't considered cases like mine.

Ohio has a similar law about carrying in a religious facility. But, from what I have found here because churches are still private property I can still carry as long as I have permission from someone in authority  to grant me such. In this case my Dad counts since he is the Senior Pastor. It's treated just like a private residence. If I go in your house I can't legally carry without your permission. So as long as you say it's cool we're good. I always carry when I'm at the church as many times I'm there alone and we have had transients decide to take up temporary residence and not want to leave. It's added insurance that if a situation deteriorates badly I still have a force multiplier.

[TAB]

Don't know Ga. law, but it would seem that being a security guard at say $1 per year would cover you. My stepdad used to pay me that when he needed me to look up old common law stuff for one of his cases. Just the exchange of money meant that attorney client privelge applied and I couldn't be deposed. Assuming a security guard doesn't mean a special licence, a token payment from the priest should cover you.
FQ13

that would also open the chruch up to all kinds of liabilty.

[fightingquaker13]

that would also open the chruch up to all kinds of liabilty.

That goes without saying, but you have to assume that their insurance (like any business insurance) covers liabiity from security. I mean hell, they don't pay taxes, they should be able to pony up for a decent liability policy.
FQ13

[TAB]

most churchs I know are just "making it".  donations are way down.  Then there are churchs that make you pay to attend    lets just say I don't hink very highly of them.