Episode 1: Safe at Home

[Robin]

Remember, we're doing a series here! Many of the questions raised here will be covered in future episodes.

You have the advantage of us in knowing what was shot. We have only four episode synopsis to go on. I'm curious which questions will be answered. I'm also aware each episode is maybe twenty minutes so there isn't much time to cover in depth. Trying to distill three lifetimes of experience into one season--or even ten--is a tall order. 

[m25operator]

1st, Happy New Year to one and all.

2nd, Well done Bane, Janich and Pincus.

3rd, you wanted feed back and questions not answered in the show, so here go's.

1) bed for cover, normal mattress versus a water bed, seems a water mattress would stop bullets quick, until the waters gone of course.

2)  comment, I have thought often of Mr. Janich idea of using a safe as a hard cover, especially if you have time to open the door and now have twice the cover.

3) Number 1 rule in my house, ( where are you? ) it's just me and my spouse so it's easy, don't do anything until the other person is found, if you have children, it will be harder unless they sleep with you. But don't Rambo up until you know where everyone is.

4)  I was actually present when someone was shaking the door trying to get in, when I was a child, Mom home alone grabbed the .22 rifle and us kids and took us into the living room and not far from the front door, I still remember the vigorous shaking of the door, Mom let off a round into the floor, and I still remember the foot beats as they diminished away from that door. Am I  paranoid? Mom was  Pro anti thug, but not the best defense, I was 6 what can I say.

5)  On Michael Janich door security, very nice if you want to spend 400 bucks on a solid door to your safe area, and I don't say that's not cool, but what if you don't have that money, an alternative, the good old door brace, 2 brackets mounted on studs on either side of the door, even a hollow core door, with a 2x4 cut to length, to go across, cool on the inside and bad on the outside, no kicking in going on there, and you could go for 2, 1 high, 1 low just like the dead bolts above and below the knob.

6) On Mr. Pincus, extend, touch, press, exactly right, but Bill Rogers explained it a little better, not that it matters, normal human reaction time is about 1 second per action, so, react, draw, align the sights, press or jerk the trigger = 4 seconds, but like Mr. Pincus says, and Mr. Rogers says, put that all into 1 thought process and it is not 4 operations, it is one operation, and will take considerably less time.

7)  Can't wait for #2.

[TAB]

1st, Happy New Year to one and all.

2nd, Well done Bane, Janich and Pincus.

3rd, you wanted feed back and questions not answered in the show, so here go's.

1) bed for cover, normal mattress versus a water bed, seems a water mattress would stop bullets quick, until the waters gone of course.

2)  comment, I have thought often of Mr. Janich idea of using a safe as a hard cover, especially if you have time to open the door and now have twice the cover.

3) Number 1 rule in my house, ( where are you? ) it's just me and my spouse so it's easy, don't do anything until the other person is found, if you have children, it will be harder unless they sleep with you. But don't Rambo up until you know where everyone is.

4)  I was actually present when someone was shaking the door trying to get in, when I was a child, Mom home alone grabbed the .22 rifle and us kids and took us into the living room and not far from the front door, I still remember the vigorous shaking of the door, Mom let off a round into the floor, and I still remember the foot beats as they diminished away from that door. Am I  paranoid? Mom was  Pro anti thug, but not the best defense, I was 6 what can I say.

5)  On Michael Janich door security, very nice if you want to spend 400 bucks on a solid door to your safe area, and I don't say that's not cool, but what if you don't have that money, an alternative, the good old door brace, 2 brackets mounted on studs on either side of the door, even a hollow core door, with a 2x4 cut to length, to go across, cool on the inside and bad on the outside, no kicking in going on there, and you could go for 2, 1 high, 1 low just like the dead bolts above and below the knob.
6) On Mr. Pincus, extend, touch, press, exactly right, but Bill Rogers explained it a little better, not that it matters, normal human reaction time is about 1 second per action, so, react, draw, align the sights, press or jerk the trigger = 4 seconds, but like Mr. Pincus says, and Mr. Rogers says, put that all into 1 thought process and it is not 4 operations, it is one operation, and will take considerably less time.

7)  Can't wait for #2.

a new york bar actually does wonders for stoping some one kick in the door.

[Rastus]

There is some basic information you must give officers at the scene (eg. location of weapons, how many shots you fired and in what direction, description of suspects, etc.) but knowing what to say and what not to say is critical.

Tom is offering sage advice.

The victim was the original officer-on-the-scene's brother.  The victim had been a guest your home in the past.  Beyond your name you supplied the unnecessary details that just destroyed what would have been your lawyer's defense and supplied the prosecuter credible information that was twisted by an honest, emotionally skewed crime scene investigation to tell a story that did not happen....now where are you going?

Innocent truth and honest mis-statement convicts.

Your young children have lost a parent and in the midst of the tragedy that devastates your spouse they have become a ward of the state.

[Robin]

There is some basic information you must give officers at the scene (eg. location of weapons, how many shots you fired and in what direction, description of suspects, etc.) but knowing what to say and what not to say is critical.

I was in fear for my life, I want my lawyer. You have the right to remain silent, do you have the ability ?

Tom is offering sage advice.

I'm going to ignore your wacky hypothetical scenario. Actually in this case, Tom is not offering sage advice. As I said, there is some basic information you must give officers at the scene. These involve securing evidence, making sure no one else needs medical attention and trying to apprehend fleeing suspects. You should not say anything beyond that, but you do have to tell officers basic safety information they need to secure the scene.

[Sponsor]

[Pathfinder]

Tremendous.  The concept and execution of this show is quite an accomplishment and you should be very proud.  Congratulations and well done.

Now, this is quite disturbing and I'm upset with myself for not realizing this on my own, but the speed of an attack, in reality, appears to occur far quicker than I could have imagined.  Therefore, I took from this first show that carrying 100% of the time when I'm outside of the home will do nothing for me when I place my gun in my safe upon returning.  I'm thinking of either carrying 100 % of the time, including at home, or obtain a second GunVault for downstairs to supplement the one I have under my night stand. It is obvious that quick access to a weapon is of paramount importance in a home invasion.  Having to go upstairs is an absurd option.  Your show really brought this home in spades.

Lastly, for Michael 1, Michael 2 or Rob...please play out the scenario beyond what we witnessed at the end of the program.  I wasn't quite sure if the actress playing the victim (tremendous acting job by the way) actually shot the intruder or if the intruder fell to the ground to avoid getting shot.  Either way, how should she have handled the situation from that point if a) she shot the intruder but still had another assailant in the home who may have run off but maybe not?  Or b.) the assailant lie frozen while having a gun held on him with the other intruder about to barge in with God knows how much time before law enforcement show up?

Great job.

Excellent point, although for season 2 since season 1 is already in the can. Take the scenarios all the way through the interviews with the cops. As Mas Ayoob repeatedly points out, the attack and its resolution are only the first step. Show how to be interviewed, what to say (and NOT say!), sound not-legal advice but based on experience.

I saw bits of the show, but the safe room setup and the "attack" was one part I did see. Hope the DVR got it all last night.

I had no idea Rob talked that fast!   

UPDATE: I posted when I read the quoted post, others have said the same thing I tried to say and much better too.

Robin, no, you do not have to give them basic information, it is their job to ascertain what happened, why open the door to an aggressive prosecutor to come after you by saying something in the adrenaline let-down period that will be used against you.

"How many times did you shoot the man, sir?"

Officer, I don't remember, all I remember is the attacker was coming after me, I thought he was going to kill me!"

The cops can count spent bullets (revolver) or casings on the floor (self-loader) - it's their job. They're going to do it anyhow, so stay safe. BTW, it is also their job to note and  record everything you say, and it can and will be used against you if they so desire.

We have a link here on the site that as a newcomer (welcome to the site, BTW) showing a law school professor and a cop taking the better part of 2 hours to say just exactly that - do not talk to the cops, even as a victim. Even the police Sgt. was saying that it is his job to get you to talk and see if you make confused, contradictory or self-incriminating statements. What's the chance of that in a post-shooting scenario - fear, tired, adrenaline let-down, confusion? I'd say damn near 100%.

[MikeBjerum]

I think I'm talking in the same vein as Michael ...  Great show!  Another batch of information, tips and suggestions to be used along with all other knowledge we have or will gain.  I was at the desk and computer doing work last night, but the new line up of Guardian (by NRA), Best Defense and Shooting Gallery all went well together, and all were very well done.

Thanks for the new show!

[Rob Pincus]

Thanks for all the GREAT feedback guys (positive and negative). I really appreciate anyone watching, let alone watching in enough detail to have good questions. As some of you know reading or listening online, I have a tremendous amount of interest in answering the why? questions, not just stating "what" or "how".

In that interest, and since this is a new forum, I'd like to suggest some guidelines. General comments are great in a thread like this, but trying to address 20 items at once won't work.  If any of you are interested in discussing a specific topic (such as: "Reinforcing Interior Doors " or "What to say when you call 911"), I encourage you to start a specific thread here on this forum. Bandwidth is cheap and it will allow a much more productive discussion.

In general, I will say that some of the items (how to handle the immediate aftermath of a self-defense shooting, for example) are dealt with thoroughly in future shows.  As was pointed out above, no one show/season/channel is really going to be able to cover it all. Obviously, there is more to defensive shooting that E-T-P, but deciding what gets aired is always a pick & choose kind of thing... then pick & choose again... then edit.... then re-edit. What we're left with, hopefully, are little nuggets of information to build upon. One or two or ten concepts or tips per show that someone can take away...that's the plan.

And, of course, I talk fast to try to get more in!   

Happy New Year.

-RJP

[MikeBjerum]

Rob, and others,

Would it be possible to have an area where specific parts from the show could be highlighted.  An example would be Safe Room Construction or Safe Room Equipment?  The area could have a video clip from the show, and a printed list of specifics.  An example of this would be over on Shootingusa.com and their Pro Tips.  I refer to those quite often to help with practice or learning something new ... or just for the fun of it.

Thanks Again

P.S.

Thanks for the new contest/dumb luck drawing!

I've signed up, so you can just drop everything in the mail in the morning 

[Hazcat]

Rob, and others,

Would it be possible to have an area where specific parts from the show could be highlighted.  An example would be Safe Room Construction or Safe Room Equipment?  The area could have a video clip from the show, and a printed list of specifics.  An example of this would be over on Shootingusa.com and their Pro Tips.  I refer to those quite often to help with practice or learning something new ... or just for the fun of it.

Thanks Again

P.S.

Thanks for the new contest/dumb luck drawing!

I've signed up, so you can just drop everything in the mail in the morning 

What "drawing"??