911.. In Plane Site

[Ocin]

Ocin-  Not being defensive, just asking, as I am not at all familiar with the incident to which you refer...  Was the 747 full of fuel when it hit, and what was the estimated (or actual, if it's known) velocity of the aircraft upon impact?  Could make a big difference in the comparison if those variables aren't the same.

Especially if the 747 pilots knew they had a problem and did a fuel dump prior to impact.

I don't feel attacked 

But to adress your questions: the aircraft in question was an older type 747 cargo plane which was fully loaded (actually overloaded, which, according to the investigations contributed to the crash) and the pilot dumped most of his fuel.

[Ocin]

Ocin:

Every plane crash is different.  Angle, speed, weight, fuel, what they crash into, etc. makes crashes a dynamic study.  To any crash, the speed, angle and what a plane hits will determine how much of the plane can be put back together.  Given the speed of the 757 that hit a robustly built building like the Pentagon, the pieces will not be so big. 

They did find enough pieces (plane and human) including the black box to collaborate the eye witness testimonies that it was AA#77 that hit the Pentagon. 

When you look at the conspiracy theories, you have to look at them like you would a “magic act” on TV.  With the magic act, you’re not seeing everything you need to see.  Same with what the conspiracy theorist put out.  Look at the evidence.

I agree, and let me make clear, i am just a civillian and as such in no way an expert. What you say about consipracy theory is quite correct. You compare it with a "magical act", I tend to look at it from the point of this point of view: "who is saying it and what is he/she gaining by saying it?

In this context, please note that the DVD sells for $ 20 which is here in Holland close to a common retail price for a recently released blockbuster movie. You think they are making money on this DVD?

But the point is of course that conspiracy theories exist by the grace of lack of information and answers, and in this there are a lot of information held back and a lot of questions yet to be answered.

[tombogan03884]

I agree, and let me make clear, i am just a civillian and as such in no way an expert. What you say about consipracy theory is quite correct. You compare it with a "magical act", I tend to look at it from the point of this point of view: "who is saying it and what is he/she gaining by saying it?

In this context, please note that the DVD sells for $ 20 which is here in Holland close to a common retail price for a recently released blockbuster movie. You think they are making money on this DVD?

But the point is of course that conspiracy theories exist by the grace of lack of information and answers, and in this there are a lot of information held back and a lot of questions yet to be answered.

One peice of confirmation of the Govt story. The Govt says Mohamad Atta and one of the younger hijackers drove from portland to Boston, and made a wrong turn in Portsmouth NH. I can  confirm that as I passed them on the Spaulding Turnpike. It may not have been an accident though as they were just down the road from Pease trade port, a former SAC base it is now the major airport for the NH seacoast.

[Ron J]

Ocin ...

In this context, please note that the DVD sells for $ 20 which is here in Holland close to a common retail price for a recently released blockbuster movie. You think they are making money on this DVD?

Great point.  Someone is getting rich on this!  People that produce these tapes/DVDs are one of two types of "true believers".  

One, they sincerely believe this was a conspiracy by the US government.  Despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, these “believers” actually think that US government is capable of pulling something of this scale off.  To quote a line from the “Princess Bride”, that is “inconceivable”.  Too much transparency to pull this kind of action off in any government much less the US.  When you look at the various "theories" be sure to check their sources.  For instance, several of them have sources that have no expertise in the fields they say they are "engineers" or PhD's in.  They believe this to be true ... and some want to make a buck or two in the process.  I actually have a lot less respect for these "believers" than the second group.  

The second group of “true believers” are those from radical Islam producing propaganda.  These are the folks that originally took credit for the attacks (UbL even praised them in couple tapes) but now want folks to think that the “religion of peace” is not capable of committing such acts of terror (yes, this is a big "what the f..k?" moment).  Usually these are the easy ones to identify because they will without fail use the same catch phrases like we (the US) did this “to justify Bush killing millions of innocent Iraqi women and children”.  Or they will manage to throw in what they consider to be a “zinger” on how the poor people in "Palestine have never done anything wrong to the wicked Zionist" (albeit most of the Palestinian “troubles” are self inflicted wounds from the boy-lover Yasser Arafat … but that’s another story).  

Their primary objective with such propaganda is to influence attitude change about the US government.  They want people to believe that the US government is capable of doing such an act because the US of A is "the great Satan".  The more doubt they create, the easier it is to influence and this doubt opens the door their religious quest for “manifest destiny”.  For example, voting for US candidates that are “surrender monkeys” to the war on terror which is a war against radical Islam.  Radical Islam wants us to put elected officials in place that seek appeasement with them.  If you have studied the Qur'an, you know what that means.    

My point of view to this?  f..k them and the pony that Mohammad rode in on.  Their propaganda will not work.  Their efforts to force Sharia Law to my zip code or "smite my fingertips off" will not work so well for them either.  


But the point is of course that conspiracy theories exist by the grace of lack of information and answers, and in this there are a lot of information held back and a lot of questions yet to be answered.

To the contrary.  There is TONS of evidence and information that has been released.  This is in the form of what the US has stated in what are now public documents and from what several independent institutions here and abroad have published. Forensic evidence and physics are elements of the “magic-act” that the conspiracy theorists conveniently leave out.  This is because the facts ... science and evidence ... negate their ability to make money or their ability to influence people.  

Enough of my ranting. I'm off to my "happy place" ... a rifle range.  I have a Sako Classic in .308 Win. (that you won't find in any Sako catalog) that has been sitting new & unfired in my safe for twenty years.  I think it's time to "season" the barrel of this gorgeous rifle.  

[Ron J]

Enough of my ranting. I'm off to my "happy place" ... a rifle range.  I have a Sako Classic in .308 Win. (that you won't find in any Sako catalog) that has been sitting new & unfired in my safe for twenty years.  I think it's time to "season" the barrel of this gorgeous rifle. 


Damn.  Never made it to the range.

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