The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: tombogan03884 on June 03, 2020, 01:04:30 PM
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In short,
What good is it ?
Is this another pointless development like the Kriss Vector that is no use for anything but full auto, and can't be built full auto ?
Really sounds like a pointless range toy that might get some one killed on the range.
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One of the trigger pins on my AR came loose and it just so happened to create a binary trigger. Once I realized what happened and that it wasn't a safety problem, I played with it for a mag or two.
First it was fun. Second it makes double tap just, well automatic. If allowed for competition it would be a definite plus. Not sure every real life tactical situation would call for this level of firepower.
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Probably fun......As well as a great ammo waster.
A late friend of mine had one of the early versions on a Mini-14 years ago. It had some bugs, but when it ran right it was fun to shoot. Ammo was cheaper then too.
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Mini 30,
What the M 14 could have been if US Ordinance weren't run by Camp Perry Peckerheads. ;D
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Mini 30,
What the M 14 could have been if US Ordinance weren't run by Camp Perry Peckerheads. ;D
If that were the case, wouldn’t we have the FAL in .280 British?
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Yesss, and your point is ? ;D
All of NATO would have had FAL's AND MAG's in 280 Brit. ;D
Up yours HK. ;D
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If that were the case, wouldn’t we have the FAL in .280 British?
If we adopted the .280 British (7mm NATO) after WWII, maybe we would still have it, instead of going from .30-06 to 7.62mm NATO, then all the way down to 5.56mm, then back up to 6.8mm. Oh look, the U.S. military's shiny new, latest and greatest cartridge is 0.007" smaller than the .280 British and it's performance is absolutely magical if you listen to what they're saying about it. Too bad the .280 British itself just wasn't good enough, but somehow the 5.56mm poodle shooter was good enough for over half a century - until it wasn't and they needed something closer to .280 caliber.
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It's possible that had we gone with the British round we would only now be phasing out the M - 14.
The .280 was controllable in full auto, unlike 308, but has better barrier penetration and payload for things like tracer, unlike .223
Years ago I had a 1895 Chilean Mauser in 7 X 57. I've been impressed with 7mm ever since ;D
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A lot of U.S. soldiers were impressed with the 7mm since they faced the Mauser 1893 during the Spanish–American War.
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Paul Mauser considered it the best cartridge he ever designed .
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Mini 30,
What the M 14 could have been if US Ordinance weren't run by Camp Perry Peckerheads. ;D
A friend of mine has original Ruger drawings for their submission. He displays them every now and then at the Tulsa Wannemacher gun show. He also used to get serial #11 of everything they made....
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Collecting a serial number seems to be a thing.
Doesn't matter to them what the thing is as long as it has the proper SN.
Bill Ruger himself was just a beginner back then.
I'll just design a new gun, how hard can THAT be ? ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV9ihHMM4NA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgzTjX1alpM
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Not exactly...#11 was reserved for John if he wanted it. He wrote several books about Ruger and knew the old man because of that. That's also why he was able to end up with drawings and other Ruger memorabilia.
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Speaking of books .
I was asking around last summer and apparently S&W has tied up all the documentation on Thompson Center so no one can write a history of it till they release the papers.
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The triggers are a blast. You just have to train enough to expect the discharge when you release the trigger. When you pull the trigger you get a discharge, release the trigger get another shot. At first the discharge when releasing catches you off guard and "feels" funny but after a short time it is just FUN.
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Paul Mauser considered it the best cartridge he ever designed .
With a good bullet the 7×57mm Mauser is an excellent deer hunting round from everything I've read, but SAMMI set a relatively low pressure limit on it. The 7mm-08 Remington is and more powerful, less powerful, or equal depending on where you get your information, and that always seemed like a close to ideal deer hunting cartridge for most places. One guy at work used to set up on the side of a road in the woods and look both ways. If a deer crossed the road anywhere within sight he was ready to reach out and touch it with his 7mm Remington Magnum. Most people use something much less powerful and he was the one exception I knew of that used something more powerful than a .30-06 rifle.
The binary trigger reminds me of some target shooting shotguns I read about with release triggers if that's the correct term. Nothing happened when you squeezed the trigger and called for your bird, but when you let go it fired. The binary trigger combines that with a regular trigger action.
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A lot of U.S. soldiers were impressed with the 7mm since they faced the Mauser 1893 during the Spanish–American War.
the 7 mauser is a very nice round, it only has 1 very big glaring flaw. It is just over the max lenght of 2.8" to fit in a short action. Its 3.071. So it has to go in a long action. Where it gives up lots of power compared to most long action chamberings.
Why care a ~4 oz heavier rifle then you have too? While no big deal hunting from a stand, but if your on a mountain hunt or spot and stalk. That 4 oz will add up when its 10 miles back to the truck.
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the 7 mauser is a very nice round, it only has 1 very big glaring flaw. It is just over the max lenght of 2.8" to fit in a short action. Its 3.071. So it has to go in a long action. Where it gives up lots of power compared to most long action chamberings.
Why care a ~4 oz heavier rifle then you have too? While no big deal hunting from a stand, but if your on a mountain hunt or spot and stalk. That 4 oz will add up when its 10 miles back to the truck.
I think that's why the 7mm-08 was created. The .284 Winchester was a flop but it's supposed to be making a comeback. If I was going to get a long action 7mm it I think it would be a .280 Remington. I don't know what's so special about the 0.007" smaller .270 Winchester that makes it so great. I see .280 Rem. Ackley Improved factory ammo for sale now too which really surprises me.
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It's all about how the weight is distributed.
That's why the 7.62 CETME could be light, with minimal recoil, yet still provide 1000 yard accuracy.
But it's got about 3 different metals to provide proper weights and balance.
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The 7-08 and 7 m are basicly the same as far as ballistics are concerned. The 7-08 does have about 14k more pressure. So in the same gun it would have more felt "recoil" rather it is hard to say if its more push back, more blast or both. Its not something that will ever be tested as no one in thier right mind would ever chamber a 7-08 in a long action and you can't just re barrel a mauser to 7-08. It would be a very intresting test, but not something that is worth the money or the effort to find out. Its not just putting a new barrel on the gun, the bolt has to be changed as well.
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Hey TAB, 7mm was developed for shooting Turks and Frenchmen, not deer. :)
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It doesn't take a larger caliber to stop cheese-eating surrender monkeys. I'll leave it to someone else to figure out the minimum effective caliber.
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The French have always had good gear, and troops.
Often better than Germany.
It's command mentality that screws them.
Take a careful look at their history you'll find they win little battles, it's just wars they lose.
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The French have always had good gear, and troops.
Often better than Germany.
It's command mentality that screws them.
Take a careful look at their history you'll find they win little battles, it's just wars they lose.
The Chauchat was anything but good gear and it didn't take them long after the war to replace it with something that looks like a BAR. Wikipedia sums it up its replacement in the first line of the article on the FM 24/29 light machine gun. "The Fusil-mitrailleur Modèle 1924 M29 was the standard light machine gun of the French Army from 1925 until the 1960s and was in use until 2000-2006 with the National Gendarmerie." Other than the Chauchat the French were successfully on/near the leading edge of firearms technology for a long time. They had metallic cartridges with smokeless powder and jacketed bullets when most of the world was still lobbing lead at each other with black powder.
I like to give the French a hard time but I honestly believe there would be no United States of America without them supplying us with arms, money, and whatever else it took to piss off the British, because that was their thing. We'd just be another commonwealth of "the empire on which the sun never sets". The British might still have an empire, bigger than ever before, if we were fighting with them instead of against them. But they behaved too much like our current government and had to be spanked.
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Big Frank, you are dead wrong.
The Chauchat was the best automatic rifle of it's day.
It was the only automatic rifle of it's day.Every other designer had the Chauchat as a starting point including JMB.
And the gun was no prize but that wasn't why the French dumped it. The Belgians kept it well into the 30's by choice.
The problem the French had was the 8 mm Lebel. Rimmed, double tapered necked down 11mm Gras with a bullet stolen from Rubin it was the worst cartridge of WWI and held up French arms research for a generation.
The Char B tank was better than anything the Germans had, and their planes were just as good.
I'll still give the French crap.
Any one America owed went to the Guillotine .
You DO know, don't you , that we fought an undeclared naval war against Napoleon 12 years before we refought the British.
The only ones to blame for losing the British empire are socialist "Little Englanders" who worked a full century to destroy the work of Clive , Raffles, and Rhodes. They have become welfare state sodomites.
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The Chauchat may have been the best light machine gun of its time by virtue of being the only one, but I wouldn't call it a success. Due to dirt and mud entering the action, mostly through the open sided mags, and difficulties caused by the 8mm Lebel cartridge, it was a problem child that a lot of our guys tossed aside the first chance they had to get something else, like a bolt-action rifle. If it was really that good of a gun they wouldn't have cursed at them so bad and thrown them away like trash.
And I don't know what undeclared wars we've fought against who over the last 200+ years. They didn't teach us that kind of stuff in school and I don't read history for fun. I don't know very much about all the wars that actually were declared. I only remember having 1 semester of history in high school and it was called Wars of the 20th Century. When I didn't need credits in any particular subject to graduate I chose classes I like, wood shop, metal shop, and art for example, and easy stuff like algebra, geometry, and science classes. Not boring old history or English classes.
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Maybe if you'd paid attention to history you would have found out it's the least boring, and most important subject you should have studied.
As for throwing away Chautchat's, Those weren't 8 Lebel, they were the 30-06 because they were so much worse than the 8mm. And all those holes and openings allowed just as much crap to fall back out again.
Even John Browning took lessons from the Chauchat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPF4-ReK7AA&list=PLJvsSlrbdhn60Ry8LooCCLzfqZaPVVb_Q