UN's "One World Government" or "New World Order"

[fightingquaker13]

POOP!

You know Eric, you're giving onreccess a run for his money in regard to reasoned commentary. If there was a trophy for the inarticulate grunt of the day, you would win it. Please try harder.
FQ13

[JC5123]

Tom, its not ruthlessness that I lack, I don't carry a gun for decoration. What I do lack is romanticism. I really don't see why the concept of having a solid committed minority of supporters who are willing to assist, if not fight is a problem. I also fail to see why you see no need to convince the "sheeple" (easy to convince by definintion, right) that at the very least passive acceptance of a revolutionary government is necessary, lest those same sheep grow fangs. Remember most Americans were pretty on board with FDR are and that didn't end well for Hitler or the Japs. Building a revolutionary movement is like building anything. You do all the planning and all the steps in order. Otherwise you just grab a hammer and FUBAR it. What part of that do you not get?
FQ13

Obviously, you have never "built" anything. I have worked in the construction industry most of my life. I can tell you this, plans for building anything are worth about as much as toilet paper. Fighting a war is the same way. You go in with a goal. In a war the goal is always the same. WIN. Unfortunately because of the pure nature of war you have to make the rest up as you go.

I have said many times that I don't want to see our country go through this, but I fear we may have no choice. I will add this though, I think about my family, and what I would be willing to do for them. What I would be willing to sacrifice for their future. I would give my life to give them a better future. In a heartbeat. That is what makes us so different FQ. I don't have to read books to figure out what to do when my liberty, and my future are at risk. I know instinctively, as a patriot, to pick up a rifle and stand a post. It's called being principled. To hell with pragmatism. I will not sit on my ass, while my country is being stolen from me, and I won't wait for someone else to lead the charge.

[ericire12]

You know Eric, you're giving onreccess a run for his money in regard to reasoned commentary. If there was a trophy for the inarticulate grunt of the day, you would win it. Please try harder.
FQ13

I call em like I see em..... Really, if anyone on this forum deserves to be compared to onreccess its you.... We will disregard the fact that he too was an "educator"

[fightingquaker13]

. That is what makes us so different FQ. I don't have to read books to figure out what to do when my liberty, and my future are at risk. I know instinctively, as a patriot, to pick up a rifle and stand a post. It's called being principled. To hell with pragmatism.

That is what makes us different, same basic goal, different means. Wisdom says that you escalate in steps. You don't go the most extreme option first or you have nowhere left to go. I say and maintain, that its a lot easier to win elections then revolutions. You disagree, fine. Do ponder this though. FDR, whose socialism is the underlying problem, did not take power in a revolution, but rather an election. The same was true of Lincoln and the same was true of Washington. Granted both Lincoln and Washington skirted the laws or resorted to force, but they got there through persuasion first, and only then resorted to force to consolidate, not acquire what they had already won. Disregard this advice if you will, but its not based on feelings or emotions, but history. I may be wrong. You might remake the country with your AR and a few hundred feet of rope. I think that you don't get rid of the rock by hitting it with a hammer once. I think it sa thousand small blows over time that do the job. But that's just me.

FQ13

[Pathfinder]

That is what makes us different, same basic goal, different means. Wisdom says that you escalate in steps. You don't go the most extreme option first or you have nowhere left to go. I say and maintain, that its a lot easier to win elections then revolutions. You disagree, fine. Do ponder this though. FDR, whose socialism is the underlying problem, did not take power in a revolution, but rather an election. The same was true of Lincoln and the same was true of Washington. Granted both Lincoln and Washington skirted the laws or resorted to force, but they got there through persuasion first, and only then resorted to force to consolidate, not acquire what they had already won. Disregard this advice if you will, but its not based on feelings or emotions, but history. I may be wrong. You might remake the country with your AR and a few hundred feet of rope. I think that you don't get rid of the rock by hitting it with a hammer once. I think it sa thousand small blows over time that do the job. But that's just me.

FQ13

Complete and utter BS!

Washington knew that war was coming - that is why he showed up in his Colonial uniform every damn day the Continental Congress met amd mever said one word about wanting the job.

FQ isn't our resident onrecess, he is more of a Vidkun Quisling living in a Vichy of his own fantasy, thinking everything will be better if we just go along with the fix. Hmm. Maybe Neville Chamberlain is closer.

You dodged my question BTW.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

Complete and utter BS!

Washington knew that war was coming - that is why he showed up in his Colonial uniform every damn day the Continental Congress met amd mever said one word about wanting the job.

FQ isn't our resident onrecess, he is more of a Vidkun Quisling living in a Vichy of his own fantasy, thinking everything will be better if we just go along with the fix. Hmm. Maybe Neville Chamberlain is closer.

You dodged my question BTW.

Path
Washington didn't become President through the revolution. The Articles of Confederation didn't provide for an independent President. He became President after the Constitution was written. That was a quasi-illegal operation. He and the rest of the Founders, were charged with revising the articles, not tearing them up and starting over. Guess what? The people accepted this second American Revolution without a shot being fired. Why? Persuasion, read the Federalist Papers for the reasons why. Gee, guess what, reason and persuasion. I guess Washington, Franklin, Madison and Hamilton are Quislings and Chamberlins as well. Look Path, you need to step outside of your own private Alamo and realize a fewhome truths. Truth the first. If you are pissed off, odds are good some of your neighbors are, organize them. Truth the second, folks are pissed for different reasons, find a broad and inclusive (but narrow enough to be coherent agenda) and rally folks behind it. Third truth, don't pull a gun, when an election campain will work. You may call me Chamberlin, but you my friend are more akin to the unibomber, or John Brown on your best day. Me, I'll follow Franklin's example. You know, that crazy little thing called a printing press. To each their own.
FQ13

[JC5123]

That is what makes us different, same basic goal, different means. Wisdom says that you escalate in steps. You don't go the most extreme option first or you have nowhere left to go. I say and maintain, that its a lot easier to win elections then revolutions. You disagree, fine. Do ponder this though. FDR, whose socialism is the underlying problem, did not take power in a revolution, but rather an election. The same was true of Lincoln and the same was true of Washington. Granted both Lincoln and Washington skirted the laws or resorted to force, but they got there through persuasion first, and only then resorted to force to consolidate, not acquire what they had already won. Disregard this advice if you will, but its not based on feelings or emotions, but history. I may be wrong. You might remake the country with your AR and a few hundred feet of rope. I think that you don't get rid of the rock by hitting it with a hammer once. I think it sa thousand small blows over time that do the job. But that's just me.

FQ13

FQ, what is the line for you, or from other threads here, what is your "trigger point"? How far does it have to go before you would take action. We've fought hard for the elections. They are rigged. We have had the Tea Parties (and continue to hold them) We have been ignored, marginalized, and mocked. We write, and call and harass our reps. You saw the town hall meetings. We are told to sit down and shut up. That they know better.

Anyone that questions them is completely trashed. (Joe the plumber) Anyone that has a strong voice of opposition is completely destroyed. (Sarah Palin, Rush, Beck) True these people are still going, but not for lack of the vicious PERSONAL attacks, that have no place in politics.

So what the F*&K else would you have us do? You say that I am going for the armed resolution right away leaving me nowhere else to go? Obviously you haven't been paying attention to the steps that have already been taken. Weather you want to see it or not, I believe this will get violent, and soon. Because we are running out of peaceful alternatives. We are losing our liberty FQ, and it's time for you to dig deep for a set of balls, cause it's gonna be at your doorstep, and you won't be able to dodge the questions the way you do in here.

[fightingquaker13]

FQ, what is the line for you, or from other threads here, what is your "trigger point"? How far does it have to go before you would take action. We've fought hard for the elections. They are rigged. We have had the Tea Parties (and continue to hold them) We have been ignored, marginalized, and mocked. We write, and call and harass our reps. You saw the town hall meetings. We are told to sit down and shut up. That they know better.

Anyone that questions them is completely trashed. (Joe the plumber) Anyone that has a strong voice of opposition is completely destroyed. (Sarah Palin, Rush, Beck) True these people are still going, but not for lack of the vicious PERSONAL attacks, that have no place in politics.

So what the F*&K else would you have us do? You say that I am going for the armed resolution right away leaving me nowhere else to go? Obviously you haven't been paying attention to the steps that have already been taken. Weather you want to see it or not, I believe this will get violent, and soon. Because we are running out of peaceful alternatives. We are losing our liberty FQ, and it's time for you to dig deep for a set of balls, cause it's gonna be at your doorstep, and you won't be able to dodge the questions the way you do in here.

I'm not dodging anything or even disagreeing with your goals (which I presume are a return to basic Constitutional principals that are non-racist and religously inclusive). The point I am trying to make, in the simplest terms, is this. Free your mind and your ass will follow. You can't shoot your way out of a democracy to form a republican democracy. Folks have to be receptive. If you cannot lay the ideological ground work.,you're doing something wrong, start again.It seems to me you are speaking out of impatience and very understandable frustration. I get that. But it doesn't mean that shooting folks is going to solve the problem. Either you will persuade your neighbors or you won't. If you can't, seperation might be a better step, less bloody, and a whole lot easier to organize. Pick a state that is reasonably prosperous, sparsely populated and generally sympathetic. Utah, Idaho, Texas (less sparcely populated than sympathetic), Montana take your pick. Move there and persuade like minded folks to join you. It worked for the Mormons, it can work again.
As far as a trigger point, I will not fire on my flag unless the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are suspended or elections are cancelled. At which point the government has broken the social contract and all bets are off. Until then, I think that we have been able work out worse problems than these peacefully over our history. The one time we weren't, a half million Amercans died at each others hands. I'd really rather not repeat that.
FQ13

[JC5123]

I'm not dodging anything or even disagreeing with your goals (which I presume are a return to basic Constitutional principals that are non-racicist and religiously inclusive). The point I am trying to make, in the simplest terms, is this. Free your mind and your ass will follow. You can't shoot your way out of a democracy to form a republican democracy. Folks have to be receptive. If you cannot lay the ideological ground work.,you're doing something wrong, start again.It seems to me you are speaking out of impatience and very understandable frustration. I get that. But it doesn't mean that shooting folks is going to solve the problem. Either you will persuade your neighbors or you won't. If you can't, seperation might be a better step, less bloody, and a whole lot easier to organize. Pick a state that is reasonably prosperous, sparsely populated and generally sympathetic. Utah, Idaho, Texas (less sparcely populated than sympathetic), Montana take your pick. Move there.
As far as a trigger point, I will not fire on my flag unless the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are suspended or elections are cancelled. At which point the government has broken the social contract and all bets are off. Until then, I think that we have been able work out worse problems than these peacefully over our history. The one time we weren't, a half million Amercans died at each others hands. I'd really rather not repeat that.
FQ13

First of all, we are not a democracy! How many times do we have to explain this to the eggheads! The United States is a REPUBLIC. And yes there is a difference. As for your dodging, mine is the first question that you HAVEN'T dodged. Just ask Path. The only problem with your trigger points is that if you wait for all that to happen, it will be too late. Without the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, you will no longer have the means to resist. Your weapons and all your liberty will be stripped from you, and we will all probably be locked in a camp somewhere.

As for firing against my flag, what are you insane. If not for that symbol of freedom, what the hell banner would you be fighting for?

[fightingquaker13]

Actually JC
We are a democratic republic. We contain elements of both. Granted, we are more democratic after the he 17th ammendment which mandated the direct election of Senators and the universal state level policy of directly voting for President. This a change from the oriinal Constiution, but doesn't change the republican nature of government. As far as firing on the flag, what exactly do you think the government troops will be wearing, a swastika? Lets be real. They will be the boys in blue, and we will be the "unlawfull combatants" if it ever comes to your worst case scenario. You WILL be shooting at the US flag, they won't change it for your peace of mind. It is something that I am highly reluctant to do and I will wait until the Constitution is suspended or other outrages occur.
FQ13