Interesting news from Tactical Wire

[tombogan03884]

 There you go, but again, not enough $ for the vultures.

[TAB]

the recent dust tests done by the army, had all weapons tested do very well.  the standard colt M4 beat more then a few piston guns.  

now i don't know if they "messed" with the guns or the numbers, but assuming the data they released is correct, there really is nothing wrong with the modern battle rifle, as far as reliabilty is concrened.

I personally know a few operators(SEAL, marine recon)  for the most part they all took off the rack guns.  They also mentioned they like the m14.  now it could be they like it becuase thats what they were use to.  They can get basicly anything they want and yet they are using the standard service rifle.


I do agree the main prob with the ar platfrom is the 223.

[Timothy]

Sure enough Tom but why then didn't Congress or the President invoke DOD prioities on manufacturing firms.  It's unconscionable to consider that our fine troops went to battle with sub-standard weaponry.  

One thing is for sure, if and when the Military gets new weaponry, it WILL be made by the lowest bidder.  If they get the highest quaility, as you've already stated, is anyones guess.

[tombogan03884]

 Tim, how many conspiracy theories have we heard about the ammo shortage, while we have 2 wars going on and gun sales doubling ?
What kind of stink would have been raised had the Gov said no more civilian Body Armor till we have all WE need ?
As to the weapon, I would say, either 6.5 or 6.8 gas piston upper, No R&D required, we've been doing that on the basic platform for 40 years, half the cost of an entire rifle, and you don't have replace the entire inventory of manuals, tools and spare parts, not to mention that you do not have retrain all the armorers and shooters.

[fightingquaker13]

What?

The 5.56 is a flat shooting cartridge, that when coupled with the AR platform provides very good accuracy at range. 7.62x39 provides greater knock down power up close at the expense of accuracy at range, particularly in a standrd AK configuration. This seems pretty obvious to me Peg.
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[Badgersmilk]

OMG!!!!  So many things at the start of this thread I agree with!!!!

I agree with Tom 100% on government being far to proud to admit it was a fool's mistake to have gone away from .308...  They'll NEVER go back to it now.  No matter what.  Hence, the need for the creation of the 6.8 (as close as they'd dare get without embarrasing themselves).

I also agree with a new sidearm being a MAJOR need / issue for the military.  Again, same stupidity will apply for calibers (it'll HAVE to be a new one altogether).  MAYBE 9mm stands a chance to live on...  Doubt it.

Doing things cost effectivly has ever been even the smallest priority for our government???  THANK GOD the "new upper" idea is out the door completely if only for this reason alone. (I won't go into reliability issue's)

In the past members of the UN tried to agree on a single rifle for everyone (the FAL), but stupid American pride, and political payoff's lead to our opting out of it while near everyone else jumped on the bandwagon.

What I expect...  This is just my guestimate...  With our "new world PC government" wanting so desperately to show we're a "team player", I believe 100% BO will ask the UN to come up with a rifle / sidearm combo accepted for all members, and the US will be the FIRST to jump on the wagon this time!  I'd also venture a wild guess that both weapons in said combo will be sporting this moniker.

[tombogan03884]

The 5.56 is a flat shooting cartridge, that when coupled with the AR platform provides very good accuracy at range. 7.62x39 provides greater knock down power up close at the expense of accuracy at range, particularly in a standrd AK configuration. This seems pretty obvious to me Peg.
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Go back and reread  your post. you don't mention 7.62X39 in that portion so This post seems to be a complete contradiction of that one.

From BM
What I expect...  This is just my guestimate...  With our "new world PC government" wanting so desperately to show we're a "team player", I believe 100% BO will as the UN to come up with a rifle / sidearm combo accepted for all members, and the US will be the FIRST to jump on the wagon this time!  I'd also venture a wild guess that both weapons in said combo will be sporting this moniker.  FN

Probably instead of bigger they will go with smaller, faster, and even LESS effective.  ( 5.7  ?  )

[Badgersmilk]

Go back and reread  your post. you don't mention 7.62X39 in that portion so This post seems to be a complete contradiction of that one.

From BM
What I expect...  This is just my guestimate...  With our "new world PC government" wanting so desperately to show we're a "team player", I believe 100% BO will as the UN to come up with a rifle / sidearm combo accepted for all members, and the US will be the FIRST to jump on the wagon this time!  I'd also venture a wild guess that both weapons in said combo will be sporting this moniker.  FN

Probably instead of bigger they will go with smaller, faster, and even LESS effective.  ( 5.7  ?  )

Man, if I could tell you how bad I hope that's not the case...  But it may be...  

[Big Frank]

The 5.7 is a submachinegun round so they'll probably never adopt rifles chambered for it. All these problems could be avoided if they adopted the .276 Pederson for the M1. It's short enough to chamber in M14s and they could have chambered AR10s for it and still be using them.

[fightingquaker13]

Go back and reread  your post. you don't mention 7.62X39 in that portion so This post seems to be a complete contradiction of that one.

5.56 out of an AR is gret at 300 yards plus, but it doesn't have the umph at 100 feet in urban combat?

Seems pretty clear to me Tom. But its silly to argue about this. The point is we need a bigger round and a tougher platform. The AK will work for a carbine, not a battle rifle, but it aint going to happen no matter how much sense it makes. Given that, the 6.8 for carbine or .308 for battle rifle will work. Probably  not seeing the .308 either. Honestly though, can you imagine the money we would save and how happy the average grunt would be if they were given a new and improved M14, FN FAL or AK over the M16/M4?Can you picture much money we would save by being able to skip trials and just buying the licence and starting production tommorow? But hey, that makes sense. We can't have that.
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