The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Ksail101 on January 21, 2010, 09:20:36 AM
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So I have been looking around on the net at a lot of the new 1911's that are out at shot. And I see that Colt has come out with a couple DA 1911s. So I ask Why?
I have a little bit of an understanding of the PARA LDA and why someone would want one for competition, and the CCO models I think it is good so you can carry it in your pocket, but a Colt DA Government model 1911 just seems, well dumb.
I love the feel and how a 1911 shoots and it is my favorite pistol to shoot if I have a choice at the range. And all the great reasons to carry one everyday as been beat into all of our heads now by many who live and get paid by there 1911s. Wouldn't a double action 1911 be defeating all the purpose of the 1911. You want the great trigger pull, quick into action system of the single action.
If you want a double action pistol that is why god made SIG, FNH, ect. ect. I believe anyone of those defensive pistols are going to out preform a DA 1911 any day of the week for many reasons in which you all already know. You could just set the new Colt DA 1911 next to a Sig P220 and see the the clear winner without even shooting it. (in my own opinion)
Well any real reasons you would want one or think they might be better than a modern DA pistol or a standard 1911, please tell me cause I think I am missing something here.
If Colt really wanted to knock my socks off with a new pistol\pistols they could have introduced a complete line of the exact same guns they have now, 70 series repo, Delta Elite, New Rail Gun, 1991 ect. ect. with no grip safeties. Wow that would rule. Arched mainspring housing and no grip safety with gentle beavertail to stop hammer bite, ahhhhh, drrrrroooowwwwllllllll!!!!!!
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To meet the requirements of new .gov and leo contracts would be my guess.
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Some people are afraid to carry a 1911 cocked and locked but they'll carry a double action with a round in the chamber. A DA 1911 would be an option for them.
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There have been a couple attempts to produce a DA 1911 a while back. A lot of their officers wanted to carry .45's but most if not all police administrators would not allow their people to carry a 1911 cocked and locked. One of the reasons being that the general public would freak! Another being they were afraid of liability in case someone got hurt because of an AD. Times have changed. Also as was stated, the military is/was looking at adopting a new pistol in .45 and a number of companies put out DA .45's including some 1911's.
FWIW
Richard
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Para made some LDA 45's. I kinda liked them. I always thought of them as an option for people who liked Glocks or other DAO polymer autos. It gave them the option of a metal framed pistol very much like the 1911,s.
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Cocked and unlocked is actually safer then carrying say a glock with one in chamber... add in the locked aspect and it becomes even safer.
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Cocked and unlocked is actually safer then carrying say a glock with one in chamber... add in the locked aspect and it becomes even safer.
OK, I can't let this one go. Safer? From a gun with a short movement trigger with a low pull weight (1911)? The only Safer I'll give you is it's safer if no one is around the gun, as the 1911 has both the backstrap and trigger vs just the trigger on the glock. If one is holding the gun, I'd say the glock is safer, and most all NDs happen when someone has their hand on the gun.
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I can pull the trigger on a cocked and unlocked 1911 all day, the only thing that is going to happen is my finger gets tired. you do that with a glock and its going to go bang. Unless I depress the grip safety its not going to do anything.
While I would never recomend going cocked and unlocked, it is perfectly safe.
here is a video I made a while back of just this subject.
http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n104/The_AnkLe_BiTeR/?action=view¤t=Picture047.flv
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No one has mentioned that once before in the late 80s, Colt came out with a DA 1911 called the Double Eagle. It only lasted one or two years.
CD
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I wish they could figure out a DA/SA 1911. That would be my dream as I am used to Beretta 96's and absolutely love that firearm, but want a 1911 purely for asthetic reasons.
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OK, I can't let this one go. Safer? From a gun with a short movement trigger with a low pull weight (1911)? The only Safer I'll give you is it's safer if no one is around the gun, as the 1911 has both the backstrap and trigger vs just the trigger on the glock. If one is holding the gun, I'd say the glock is safer, and most all NDs happen when someone has their hand on the gun.
I was going to ask about that comment as well until I realized he was talking about the grip safety.
If Plaxico Burris had been carrying a 1911 he would not be in jail, as his Glock slid down the leg of his sweats, (Mexican carry is SUCH a good idea ) he tried to catch it and his finger hooked the trigger, a grip safety would have prevented him shooting himself, but the Glock went bang.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpgL5kuBpMA
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I was going to ask about that comment as well until I realized he was talking about the grip safety.
If Plaxico Burris had been carrying a 1911 he would not be in jail, as his Glock slid down the leg of his sweats, (Mexican carry is SUCH a good idea ) he tried to catch it and his finger hooked the trigger, a grip safety would have prevented him shooting himself, but the Glock went bang.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpgL5kuBpMA
I think there should be a gun handling rule that says, "Don't try to catch a falling/moving gun." This rule should be before the 'No gun twirling' rule or the 'don't paint the metal parts of your gun' rule. ;D
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Overload, when the nut holding the gun is too loose...cocked-and-locked does frighten some people, including most of the police departments in the U.S. I don't like Condition 1 for pocket pistols (like the Mustang/Sig 238) or for off-body carry in a bag unless secured in a fitted holster that covers the trigger — Murphy works wonders! Interestingly enough, I think the original Colt Double Eagle failed because it got compared far too often to the superb Sig 220, which was everything the Colt wasn't. Also interesting that before the Double Eagle and the availability of the Sig, people spent mucho bucks for a Seecamp DA conversion on full-sized 1911s (http://www.m1911.org/seecamp.htm; http://www.seecamp.com/companyhistory.htm). From the Seecam site:
"This conversion, done during a period when the single-action versus double-action controversy was at its peak, resulted in the first commercially available DA .45 autoloaders anywhere in the world. Nearly 2000 such DA conversions were done from the early 70s to the early 80s. Ludwig [Seecamp] had become a firm believer in the value of DA after a Walther P-38 saved his life in WWII."
I've shot several of the original Seecamps, and they were...interesting. There was a real frenzy for DAs back in the late '70s. I got my hands on my first 220 around 1981, a German police gun with black plastic grips and a European butt-mounted mag release. Man, I wish I still had that gun! In a moment of weakness I swapped it for a NIB Browning High Power .40 Combat.
Michael B
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I wish they could figure out a DA/SA 1911. That would be my dream as I am used to Beretta 96's and absolutely love that firearm, but want a 1911 purely for asthetic reasons.
That sounds like the worst of both worlds! Inconsistent trigger pull, plus low capacity! Kind of like the El Camino - the low clearance and limited power of a car combined with the limited seating and unsecured cargo of a truck!
I agree with the OP. If you want a DA pull, get a revolver or one of the fine DA/striker fired guns out there.
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To meet the requirements of new .gov and leo contracts would be my guess.
I have been thinking about the Para LDA also. The main reason is because of the "public". Administrators hear sooo many complaints from them there afraid of losing tax dollars, we had to hide our shotguns from "public view" because it too scary looking for them [so we went to the overhead rack], and heaven forbid, our AR-15 had to be kept in the trunk.
First OB must go, then all the lawyers, followed by a BIG jump backwards to follow our consitution as written. Set term limits,
jion your local 9/12 group, support the NRA, and move the country back to "common sence" days.
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It seems to me some of the logic about military or Leo requirements have merit, but for the Joe shooter, it is not using the manual safety, just grab and go, now I have felt the older DA 1911's like the double eagle and the seecamp, awefully heavy pulls, the Para LDA system is really good, and you have the option of leaving the safety off, or engaging the manual safety, the other 1911 safeties apply. The LDA system is a much lighter trigger pull. It does not provide for second strike capability like the aforementioned, but works very well.
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I am not sure of the reason either, as the Sig P200 is far superior anyway!!!
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I use an LDA in competition, so I want to EDC one. Should I carry it cocked and locked?
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Here is where the entrepreneur, or capitalist, in me comes out -
I think the purpose is to see if it sells. If there is a market for it someone will make it. If there is not a market for something someone has made than try to make a market.
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I use an LDA in competition, so I want to EDC one. Should I carry it cocked and locked?
Uncocked and locked. You can't manually cock it.
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Uncocked and locked. You can't manually cock it.
When I rack the slide, aren't I cocking the striker?
So, I should have a round in the chamber, and safety on?
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When I rack the slide, aren't I cocking the striker?
So, I should have a round in the chamber, and safety on?
My understanding with the LDA is that by "cocking" the slide you are applying tension to the mainspring. The hammer never stays "cocked" back. That is what makes it so light and also why you do not have second strike capabilities.
I would carry with a round in the chamber and the thumb safety on just for added safety.
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Overload, I'd say if you practice and compete with it with one in the chamber and safety on, CARRY IT THAT WAY. That's what you've trained for.
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I compete with one in the chamber and the safty off. When I compete with a 1911 in a different class, I shoot cocked and locked. (both as per rules)
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I figure if you're most comfortable carrying a 1911 Cocked and locked from shooting them in matches, I'd go for it. 8)
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If it's DA, it's NOT a 1911. It might look like one, but it's an entirely different beast. I've got a Sig for bang on the trigger pull with the hammer down. If California becomes a shall issue state though I'll carry the Sig. A locked back hammer freaks out the less-than-knowlegeable population.
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Pixcutter - Just a couple of points. When you get your CCW and have to decide what firearms to put on it I'm not sure you should consider what others think about your firearms to determine which ones to carry.
The other point is that if it is concealed, no one will know that you are carrying, let alone what you are carrying.
I have a 1911 (commander sized) on my permit and have never had any issues with it.
Geno
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Come on,you know the Glock is safer,just like it's more relibale,they proofed that ,it can't even pass it's own reliability tests!
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A few comments:
If it is DA I do not want or need a safety plus I have the grip safety.
The H&K "light" LEM system is a light DA with no safety of any kind and seems to work fine.
If anyone can take the Glock safety seriously they probably think we will save money with a new health care system. Gee it will not fire unless you pull the trigger . . . I think I have other guns just like that.
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Gun makers make various models of guns because their market research tells them what will sell and what won't. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't. As with any manufacturer, gun makers are in business to make money. That is the capitalist system afterall.
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I apologize if this was already posted but the DA or LDA 1911's have a place in my department. New officers quit being allowed to add SA 1911's to their list of approved weapons. The Para LDA were on the list and it allowed newer officers to have a 1911 style weapon.
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I apologize if this was already posted but the DA or LDA 1911's have a place in my department. New officers quit being allowed to add SA 1911's to their list of approved weapons. The Para LDA were on the list and it allowed newer officers to have a 1911 style weapon.
Make it a Taurus 1911 instead! I say this because despite having drunk Glock kool-aid till my eyeballs float, I really do have a soft spot for rust buckets and want to live vicariously. I wouldn't choose one for ccw, but I do like them.
FQ13
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Make it a Taurus 1911 instead! I say this because despite having drunk Glock kool-aid till my eyeballs float, I really do have a soft spot for rust buckets and want to live vicariously. I wouldn't choose one for ccw, but I do like them.
FQ13
FQ, no Single Action (SA) 1911 are allowed in his department, so I think the Taurus 1911 is also disqualified.