The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Hazcat on February 02, 2010, 08:45:50 AM
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By Patrick Harrington
Feb. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Mexican President Felipe Calderon said drug violence in his country reflects demand for narcotics in the neighboring U.S. and easy access to weapons.
“We are right next to the biggest drug consumer in the world,” Calderon told reporters in Tokyo today during a visit to Japan. The U.S. also “doesn’t have the least objection, any scruples, about selling all the arms it can to our country.”
The remarks followed the killing of at least 16 students attending a party in Mexico’s Ciudad Juarez over the weekend by masked gunman. Calderon, who has used the military to crack down on drug gangs since taking office in December 2006, won a promise from President Barack Obama last year to push for the ratification of an arms-trafficking treaty.
Obama said he would press the U.S. Senate to ratify the stalled treaty, which was adopted by the Organization of American States in 1997. More than 90 percent of guns used in violent crimes in Mexico are brought in illegally from the U.S., according to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Calderon condemned the latest attack, calling it “cowardly,” and vowed to provide federal support to local authorities to help them cope with drug-related violence.
To contact the reporter on this story: Patrick Harrington in Tokyo at pharrington8@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: February 2, 2010 04:14 EST
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aTm1StgzWapc
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He's right about the drugs, wrong about the guns. Still, if he can blame us for Mexico's high crime rate, can't we blame him for declining wages due to illegals?
FQ13
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Let's all face the fact that the Mexican government is in denial. They have been blaming us for everything since the Alamo. While it may be somewhat true that some weapons have come from the U.S. the bulk of them especially the full auto variety have come from deserters from the Mexican army and police forces. Why would any self respecting drug dealer want a semi-auto rifle when a full auto puts them on the same playing field as the army and law enforcement? And what about the weapons coming in thru Guatemala? AK-47 are literally selling for under a $100 on the black market. Mexico needs to get its collective muerda together and start taking responsibility for its own people and policies. Of course, when we have high U.S. government officials going down there to apologize all the time it sure sends the wrong message.
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The solution here is simple. A two party treaty between the US and Mexico. You keep your people on your side of the border and we keep our guns (a non-issue) and ammo (a real issue) on our side of the border. As for drugs, we legalize them, you tax them and billions of dollars and thousands of lives are saved. Seems easy to me.
FQ13
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I agree with BOTH of FQ's posts. Why should America's tax dollars be spent driving our drug money to some scum bag in Mexico or Columbia when both could be combined to cut YOUR tax burden.
Especially since Prohibition has worked SOOO well.
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Being that I live in Texas this really hits close to home. So I do have a few thoughts on the subject that my be right our wrong? I'll leave that to ya'll to decide. First I really don't believe we are the biggest drug consumer in the world, just the most convienient one for Mexico and Central America to sale to!!! Second, Why would any multi-million dollar drug cartel want to buy semi-auto guns here when they have the funds to get anything they want from other sources.(asia,africa,south america,ect,ect.)
Mexico deosn't have the ability to deal with their own issues for numerous reasons. politics,economics,Briberies,more briberies,oh did I mention Briberies? And how many weapons are still down there that came from various countries(US included) to help numorous factions and rebels over the past 50 years? And who would want to buy 30yr. old surplus ammo when they can get top quality ammo out of the USA?LOL... I have a friend who is an Texas State Trooper Investigator working in El Paso. He said that the gun traffic isn't the real issue, but ammo and currency are. President Calderon knows his government can't deal with the issue, so he tries to place as big a guilt trip on us to deal with it for him.
As for the issue of legalizing Pot or any other substance...I really don't think it will work...Just because it is legal doesn't mean any company can't restrict the use of it of their employee's. So do you have unemployed illegal user's or unemployed legal user's???
Carlton
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Being that I live in Texas this really hits close to home. So I do have a few thoughts on the subject that my be right our wrong? I'll leave that to ya'll to decide. First I really don't believe we are the biggest drug consumer in the world, just the most convienient one for Mexico and Central America to sale to!!! Second, Why would any multi-million dollar drug cartel want to buy semi-auto guns here when they have the funds to get anything they want from other sources.(asia,africa,south america,ect,ect.)
Mexico deosn't have the ability to deal with their own issues for numerous reasons. politics,economics,Briberies,more briberies,oh did I mention Briberies? And how many weapons are still down there that came from various countries(US included) to help numorous factions and rebels over the past 50 years? And who would want to buy 30yr. old surplus ammo when they can get top quality ammo out of the USA?LOL... I have a friend who is an Texas State Trooper Investigator working in El Paso. He said that the gun traffic isn't the real issue, but ammo and currency are. President Calderon knows his government can't deal with the issue, so he tries to place as big a guilt trip on us to deal with it for him.
As for the issue of legalizing Pot or any other substance...I really don't think it will work...Just because it is legal doesn't mean any company can't restrict the use of it of their employee's. So do you have unemployed illegal user's or unemployed legal user's???
Carlton
How is that any different than booze ?
And the number of users will not change because like violent criminals with guns, the ones who want to use drugs now do so and stuff the laws.
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How is that any different than booze ?
And the number of users will not change because like violent criminals with guns, the ones who want to use drugs now do so and stuff the laws.
That is a good arguement!!! But from personal experiance with both in my immediate family, I have seen an alcohalic still be able to live a semi-productive life and provide for their family as to where I have seen a career drug user that has not been able to hold any job for any length of time and has to turn to everyone for help... My father is 72 yrs. old and has been a drug user since the 60's. He didn't raise me nor any of his kids. Hasn't been able to hold a job for any length of time since the 70's and is always coming around wanting me to fix or pay for something because he is broke.(but he always has his pot and Viagra). Both the men who did raise me were both Alcohalics. My grandfather and my uncle...Both were always able to go to work and provide for the family...My wife also say's you can't get a contact drunk!!!
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I get it, the drug cartel problem in Mexico is because of the demand for drugs in the US. The demand for guns in Mexico is due to the supply of them from America, not in any way the demand for them from criminals in Mexico. Got it, OK. The US is like a husband, we are pretty much wrong no matter what we do or don't do.
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I get it, the drug cartel problem in Mexico is because of the demand for drugs in the US. The demand for guns in Mexico is due to the supply of them from America, not in any way the demand for them from criminals in Mexico. Got it, OK. The US is like a husband, we are pretty much wrong no matter what we do or don't do.
Ding, ding, ding...................We have a winner!!!!
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Given the number of guns in Mexico I can't visualize that Mexicans (or anyone else for that matter) are buying guns legally in US gun shops and taking them back across the border. It is more believable to suspect the cartels are getting guns by stealing (or illegally buying) them from the Mexican military or from gun traffickers.
As for legalizing drugs, I'm softening my views. I do worry that experimentation by people who don't drugs today, especially people with addictive personalities, might try legal drug and cause an increase people's dependence on drugs.
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Hey I got this really great idea. Lets seal the boarder between the US and mexico. that way we stop thier "drug" prob and it will fix our "gun" prob.
sounds like a plan to me.
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As for legalizing drugs, I'm softening my views. I do worry that experimentation by people who don't drugs today, especially people with addictive personalities, might try legal drug and cause an increase people's dependence on drugs.
My big problem w/ legalizing drugs is the lesson learned from Amsterdam. They now have a 'new' type of government dependent. They spend some ungodly amount to coddle the addicts, both new and old, providing them with places to go day and night, and they gave up training them for private sector jobs they coudln't keep. Now the government just pays them to show up and do whatever work they feel like at centers.
Yeehaw.
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There is no perfect drug policy. Prohibition breeds violence, more potent types of drugs, gangs, more police powers more prisons and black market economies that diminish respect for law and order in all its forms, as well as destabilizing whole nations and fueling all sorts of extremist groups from the Contras to Al-Queda. Legalization means wider availability, more use and thus more addiction. The choice is between the lesser of two evils. I think legalization qualifies.
FQ13
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I actually like singapores drug policy, they catch you smuggling them they hang you. If we started doing that, it would make a huge dent in the war on drugs.
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Legalizing and taxing marijuana is STUPID! And impossible. It is nothing more than a way for users of this illegal substance to do it illegally by taking advantage of the current economic situation.
If it were to be legal to use, than why would a consumer go to a "store" to get it and pay tax? Why not just grow it, like some do now, and use it without paying the tax? Do you really think there won't still be an underground market for it?
...seriously...?
Do you want to be the one to roll a joint for your 18 year old child?
And we all know that marijuana is not a gateway drug, right? One of my own observations; Not ALL marijuana users go onto to harder drugs, but every Meth (or whatever 'hard' drug I can name) admits to starting with marijuana. Coincidence? You tell me.
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Legalizing and taxing marijuana is STUPID! And impossible. It is nothing more than a way for users of this illegal substance to do it illegally by taking advantage of the current economic situation.
If it were to be legal to use, than why would a consumer go to a "store" to get it and pay tax? Why not just grow it, like some do now, and use it without paying the tax? Do you really think there won't still be an underground market for it?
...seriously...?
Do you want to be the one to roll a joint for your 18 year old child?
And we all know that marijuana is not a gateway drug, right? One of my own observations; Not ALL marijuana users go onto to harder drugs, but every Meth (or whatever 'hard' drug I can name) admits to starting with marijuana. Coincidence? You tell me.
Just like we all grow tobbacco in our back yards, or buy it on the black market to avoid the tax? And the real gate way drug? Try beer or wine coolers. The only "gate way" pot opens is in breaking drug laws and getting introduced to the black market.
FQ13 who BTW has not smoked a joint in decades
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I was offered pot in HS more then I was offered booze and tabacco products, combined.
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That is a good arguement!!! But from personal experiance with both in my immediate family, I have seen an alcohalic still be able to live a semi-productive life and provide for their family as to where I have seen a career drug user that has not been able to hold any job for any length of time and has to turn to everyone for help... My father is 72 yrs. old and has been a drug user since the 60's. He didn't raise me nor any of his kids. Hasn't been able to hold a job for any length of time since the 70's and is always coming around wanting me to fix or pay for something because he is broke.(but he always has his pot and Viagra). Both the men who did raise me were both Alcohalics. My grandfather and my uncle...Both were always able to go to work and provide for the family...My wife also say's you can't get a contact drunk!!!
Not to offend but you are basing your theory on one individual, I've known people who neither drank OR did drugs who just as screwed up as that. I could also point out that Pot never gave any one cirrhosis of the Liver. No one has ever died of an overdose of pot, it is not physically possible.
But all that is beside the point and ignores the fact proven for the past 80 years, Prohibition is a waste of our money that only profits criminals and politicians. Without having any effect on use except possibly INCREASING it through the lure of "forbidden fruit".
Trident, your post is pathetically misinformed, growing tobacco is no more difficult than growing pot, and Booze has been involved in more violent crime than any other drug. In fact, it has been proven that smokers deprived of butts become more violent and suffer longer lasting withdrawel than junkies coming off Heroin. Do some research or stick to what you know .
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Hey I got this really great idea. Lets seal the boarder between the US and mexico. that way we stop thier "drug" prob and it will fix our "gun" prob.
sounds like a plan to me.
What? A logical solution? One that might actually work? TAB, what could you be thinking? Seal the border...? sheesh. Where would the Dummycraps get their next crop of voters? They aren't making them in THIS country anymore, and they gotta come from someplace.
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Not to offend but you are basing your theory on one individual, I've known people who neither drank OR did drugs who just as screwed up as that. I could also point out that Pot never gave any one cirrhosis of the Liver. No one has ever died of an overdose of pot, it is not physically possible.
But all that is beside the point and ignores the fact proven for the past 80 years, Prohibition is a waste of our money that only profits criminals and politicians. Without having any effect on use except possibly INCREASING it through the lure of "forbidden fruit".
Trident, your post is pathetically misinformed, growing tobacco is no more difficult than growing pot, and Booze has been involved in more violent crime than any other drug. In fact, it has been proven that smokers deprived of butts become more violent and suffer longer lasting withdrawel than junkies coming off Heroin. Do some research or stick to what you know .
No offense takin' Tom...I had alot of time last night at work to think on this subject and could argue it the other way as well. We have all seen or dealt with a scenario like this were it comes down to an individual with an addictive personality to something. I have a step daughter who's father hasn't paid any child-support in years and no job. He spends all his time playing games on a computer...In law enforcement, I saw alot of battered mothers/kids abused by an alcohalic husband/father. The list of addictions just goes on and on. But no one can convince me that lagalizing pot or other substance is going to make the USA any better. So my theory has alot more thought than just one individual. Just the one I pointed out.
I saw an article on growing tobacco a while back that pointed out that even though growing it isn't much harder than growing many other plants, the trick is in the curing. It takes weeks in a curing house to properly dry tobacco for use. Dry it out too fast and it become bitter. Dry it out to slow and it is at risk to disease. So it might be that you could use a little more reading up on the subject too.
Carlton
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3 things Cutter, First, I'm not saying that legalization will make America "Better", I'm arguing that it will not make America any worse and will save the Tax payer a butt load of money in the process.
Second, +10 on the tobacco curing, up here in NH my Dad grew his own a couple times He just cut it and hung it in the Kitchen over the woodstove. My God that sh!t was horrible ;D
Third, Another second shifter huh ? That's where I do most of my best thinking ;D
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Hey Tom, I am glad we can see the issues from each others veiw points! Trying to (walk in anothers shoes) is what I feel these type forums are all about. Without communication there can be no wisdom as a group...
As for the 2nd shifter! The truth is I am a locomotive engineer and am on call 24/7/365...I spend half my time in hotels in another state. My wife says that I am gone just enough that she doesn't miss me too much and not home long enough to get on her nerves...LOL.
Carlton
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Make sure the Brake man keeps the batteries charged in his light, so they know where to find you ;D
I do have a serious question, totally off topic, We hear about crashes where the Engineer on a train or driver on a subway was texting, or talking on his cell phone, it makes me wonder, I can understand running into an obstruction that you should have seen and tried to stop for, but other wise, you're on rails, do they require that much attention ?
I hope I don't come across as a jerk saying this but can't you do like I do on CNC machinery, hit the start button and go get something from the munchy machine ?
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It can take several miles for a train to stop/slow dowm. the bullet train in france takes 20 miles to stop from top speed.
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I understand that part, but it doesn't seem like it would miss a corner or anything like if you were texting while driving your car.
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Hey Tom, I see your in from work! First off I like talking about my job, so ya'll can shoot any question about railroads at me and I will do my best to explain it. Second, You will most likely hear about any train accident that has deaths and large property damage...The problem with it is the reporters really don't understand what their talking about. Nothing new there!!! So with that said I will give you a simple answer and if it isn't enough, I'll come back with the hard answer. Deal?
So to answer your question it is yes and no... Sorry I couldn't pass that one up! There is a really big difference between your typical Amtrak/Subway passenger style trains that rarely have more than a dozen cars as to a real thru-frieght train with anywhere from 30 to 150 cars of heavy frieght. To give you an idea of the difference, one of the heaviest trains I run is a 136 car coal train that weighes in around 20,000 gross tons and runs 2 motors on the front and 1 motor on the rear to push and uses 13,200 hp. An Amtrak may have 1 3000 hp motor and 7 cars and weigh in at 800 gross tons. Now it takes alot of effort to get that coal train up and moving. And once you do it's like having a Tiger by the tail. About the only time I can walk away is if I am going up a grade and the whole train is stretched out. If I am lucky the grade will be several miles long giving me time to go to the restroom or grab something out to snack on. For the most part I am munipulating the amount of power or bracking effort between the front and rear engines to keep the train from 1. speeding and 2. breaking apart...The knucles that couple each car togather can only handle about 300,000 lbs. of resistance. One of my engines weigh in over 400k and a loaded coal car weighs in around 220k each. Believe me, trying to stop one of these monsters will give you a whole new understanding of the term (A**hole pucker)!!! So There isn't any kind of system to date that can safely control one of these trains.
Now on the other hand, there are systems in most places for Subway systems that do control train movement. There are alot like an airplane auto pilot system known as (positive train control). The accident in New York has that system in place, but I am unsure if it was being used at the time of the accident... The accident in Cal. did not have that system even though FRA had recommended it years before during the last big accident that company had. Now the issue that comes up is that the subway system in the cal. accident is a contractor that uses non-union employees. Pretty much the (rent a cops) of transportation. Most of the people working there couldn't get on with a real railroad or were terminated from a railroad. This guy was flat out screwing up. Our signals are pretty much the same as automotive traffic signals. Green-go. Yellow- Caution(Be prepared to stop before next signal) and Red-stop. He got by the yellow that told him to be slow down and be ready to stop. Than ran passed the Red where he should have stop at...Yes he was texting on his phone. Most companies have a rule of no electronic devices while moving. Now the FRA has a federal law on it. $10k fine to anyone caught doing it. I hope this helps a little and if not just ask!
Carlton
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It can take several miles for a train to stop/slow dowm. the bullet train in france takes 20 miles to stop from top speed.
Hi TAB! I haven't got to chat with you yet. Nice to meet you and one thing I would like to point out about those Bullet trains is they can stop alot sooner than that. It's that they don't want the passengers to spill their drinks or fly out the window!!!
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I understand that part, but it doesn't seem like it would miss a corner or anything like if you were texting while driving your car.
Tom the truth is there can be speed restriction on segments of track due to sharp curves or steep grades. Railroads tend to use switchbacks up the steepest grades and in mountain terrain. All main line track have ratings as to how fast with how much weight you can run. A loaded coal train may have to run at a reduced speed due to these type of restrictions. Most all engines are Diesel/Electric. A V16 motor turning a 600 volt generator that can produce up 170kb. of torque spred across 6 electric motors one on each axle. Reverse the polarity and you have giant electromagnets. We use this as one way to apply braking for the train. The other is an air brake system like the ones used on a tractor/trailer. The air line runs the entire length of the train and if it is broken at any point the brakes will apply. Even with all this, Going down a steep grade towards a curve can put a real strain on the braking system. Alot of train accidents do happen from exceeding the the maximum alowed lateral forces on the rail by a train going too fast.
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Can't help but de-rail this thread a little bit more.
As one who has been in the cab of a TGV train at 280kph, I can tell you they are intense. You literally pass another TGV going the other direction in the blink of an eye - and that's for a 15-car train. But they do stop fairly quickly, and have an emergency "dead man's switch" - a timer goes off every couple of minutes and the engineer has less than 30 seconds or so to respond or the train goes into full emergency stop.
Fun time in that cab, a RR engineer who looked like a young Jean-Paul Belmondo, spoke zero English, the friend who arranged the ride up front (her former husband worked for the national railroad) who also spoke no English, and me whose French was best described as "hopeless".
I've been something of a train buff, been in the cab of numerous working locomotives across the country, everything from old Alcos to a little SW-1500 to modern wide cabs. The physics involved in a 100+ car loaded coal train are staggering.
Cutter, coming from an amateur, you have a cool job! Especially now that they put a john in the cab nose for you guys!!! ;D
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Hey Pathfinder! Glad to her it! We have a similar (dead man devise) known as an Alerter. Our's will start a controlled stop instead of an emergency stop. On or big trains, An emergency stop can actually cause a derailment. The Alerters can be programmed to go off 20 sec. to several minutes and can be a headache to hear non-stop for 12 hrs.
I do take pride in my job, just the being on-call that sucks...
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Thanks for the explanation Cutter, I had not considered several of the things you mentioned.
Stinks that there are so few RailRoaders left, Seems like the Railroads USED to employ about half the population, But like true machinists, they seem to be a dying breed.