The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on January 12, 2008, 06:54:13 AM
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The good news is it does acknowledge that the Second Amendment is an individual right; the bad news is that it appears to go wholesale against the plain language of "shall not be infringed."
More at link including the actual .pdf of the brief http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2008/01/government_file.php
Directly from the brief;
"When, as here, a law directly limits the private pos-
session of “Arms” in a way that has no grounding in
Framing-era practice, the Second Amendment requires
that the law be subject to heightened scrutiny that con-
siders (a) the practical impact of the challenged restric-
tions on the plaintiff’s ability to possess firearms for
lawful purposes (which depends in turn on the nature
and functional adequacy of available alternatives), and
(b) the strength of the government’s interest in enforce-
ment of the relevant restriction.
The court of appeals, by contrast, appears to have
adopted a more categorical approach. The court’s deci-
sion could be read to hold that the Second Amendment
categorically precludes any ban on a category of “Arms”
that can be traced back to the Founding era. If adopted
by this Court, such an analysis could cast doubt on the
constitutionality of existing federal legislation prohibit-
ing the possession of certain firearms, including
machineguns. However, the text and history of the Sec-
ond Amendment point to a more flexible standard of
review."
So the Govt is afraid that if the SC upholds the courts ruling we may be able to get full autos. Can't have that you know, that would make us even less controllable!
And Bush is supposed to be a REPUBLICAN?? THIS is why if it isn't Thompson or Hunter I WILL NOT VOTE for president. What would it matter??
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Ballot box or bullet box
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Ballot box or bullet box
Sadly, it may yet come to that. I think we all hope that it does not. After all the saying
"May you live in interesting times"
is generally considered a curse, not a blessing. So vote the 2A on Pres, Congress, state, local elections, school board, dog catcher, everything!
God willing we can keep it to the ballot box and not have to lock and load.
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Sadly, it may yet come to that. I think we all hope that it does not. After all the saying
"May you live in interesting times"
is generally considered a curse, not a blessing. So vote the 2A on Pres, Congress, state, local elections, school board, dog catcher, everything!
God willing we can keep it to the ballot box and not have to lock and load.
+1!!!!!
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arn I've grown used to living indoors . Foxholes are cold wet and NEVER deep enough :(
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Stickey keys hat was meant to say Darn.
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Can't trust anyone anymore! I wonder if Fred will get rid of DOJ too?
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I no longer pin my hopes on Fred :( We need to start considering that we MAY not get the best 2A candidate.
That means we have to hope for a good decision in the Heller case and start working to kick the Dems out of Congress and the Senate.
If we get control of state and federal legislatures, plus a favorable Supreme Court ruling even the Hillybeast could not get any legislation through.
In NH we need to start by getting Preemption, Katrina legislation, and Castle doctrine re-introduced and over riding Gov. Lynches veto. All 3 passed last summer but the gov vetoed, We have to be persistant until we get what we want. As soon as I can afford it I'm joining G.O.NH, I'm already an NRA member. I'm lobbying everyone I meet and writing my representitives, letters to the editor help also .
Any other suggestions, the more fuss we make the more likely that Voters will go our way just to shut us up.
We need to take local action all across the country to effect changes in Congress and the Senate.
Anyone else in NH want to start networking , any one else anywhere have ideas?
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Hell will freeze over before I vote for a Republican other than Fred or Huckabee.
Bush just gave the Democrats a HUGE gift.
I say impeach the son of a...oh gosh, how to put this...BUSH and MAKE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY PAY.
If there is no difference between the Dem and the Republicans, I'll take my chances with a devil I know.
We now know where the Republican Party stands, and it is behind us with a knife...
Michael "PISSED OFF" B
ps...edited for language by mb
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Let's not forget that the Dem's ran a pro-gun attorney general out of D.C., and now we've got one of Rudy's pal at AG who is known to not be gun friendly, and may have filed this brief without Bush's consent or knowledge. So if you don't vote, don't bitch when Hillary starts banning guns, ammo, and hunting/shooting on federal lands...
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Roger That. Any one foolish enough to vote democrat deserves what they get
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Hell will freeze over before I vote for a Republican other than Fred or Huckabee.
Bush just gave the Democrats a HUGE gift.
I say impeach the son of a...oh gosh, how to put this...bitch and MAKE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY PAY.
If there is no difference between the Dem and the Republicans, I'll take my chances with a devil I know.
We now know where the Republican Party stands, and it is behind us with a knife...
Michael "PISSED OFF" B
MB,
I have been saying this for months and being told "you have to support the Republicans no matter what". Well guess what, I DO support Republicans and as Fred said in the last debate this is a war for the heart and direction of the party.
Vote for "the lesser evil" (RINOs) if you wish but all you are doing is moving farther left!
THOMPSON, HUNTER or NO! Sorry, MB but Huckabee is a no too. Just look at his tax and immigation record. We need to take the party back or go some where else. I will NOT die the "death of a thousand cuts" willingly!
Either the party hears us or we leave. I am TIRED of moving left!
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MB,
I have been saying this for months and being told "you have to support the Republicans no matter what". Well guess what, I DO support Republicans and as Fred said in the last debate this is a war for the heart and direction of the party.
Vote for "the lesser evil" (RINOs) if you wish but all you are doing is moving farther left!
THOMPSON, HUNTER or NO! Sorry, MB but Huckabee is a no too. Just look at his tax and immigation record. We need to take the party back or go some where else. I will NOT die the "death of a thousand cuts" willingly!
Either the party hears us or we leave. I am TIRED of moving left!
There are too many issues that I have problems with Huckabee, I can't vote for him even if he is pro-2nd Amendment. 1000 pardons and commutations did nothing but steal justice from the families of crime victims.
I don't know what I'll do if Fred doesn't get the nod, but voting for the others isn't an option.
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Hey Michael, It snowed in Bagdad yeterday, so are you voting for Romney or McCain?
Seriously your post sounded like a 6 year old, " I'm taking my marbles and going home" (add foot stomping)
Which is more important, getting the job done however, and with who ever, or the bruised ego of backing a seemingly losing horse? If push comes to shove it really doesn't matter what the govt does. I mean we ARE the ones with the guns and Mao points out that is the ultimate source of political power. Would not be the first time the people veto'd the govt's plans.
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I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.
Get proactive. I just e mailed Fred and George.
I sent a copy of the brief copied from Michaels blog. I then stated to Fred he needs to step up, and this is why we fired George H, and We got Cinton. I also relayed that to President GW. I was calm, but also let him know my family has supported, argued and debated in his behalf. I reminded him that My family was invited to his inauguration and I still hold that document high. BUT, that brief is a spit in the face of American gun owners, just like his daddy's executive order banning the importation of certain firearms, and what that lead to. The brief was uncalled for, inappropriate and just like Michael said, may have just handed the election to the dems. I just got asked to send money to our state rifle association, so that they and the NRA, could collectively make this type of brief. I would like to ask Michael to author an email We can all copy, spread around and BOMBARD the White House with as well as the candidates for President.
What say ye.
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Hey Michael, It snowed in Bagdad yeterday, so are you voting for Romney or McCain?
Seriously your post sounded like a 6 year old, " I'm taking my marbles and going home" (add foot stomping)
Which is more important, getting the job done however, and with who ever, or the bruised ego of backing a seemingly losing horse? If push comes to shove it really doesn't matter what the govt does. I mean we ARE the ones with the guns and Mao points out that is the ultimate source of political power. Would not be the first time the people veto'd the govt's plans.
It has nothing to do with a bruised ego. It has everything to do with the fact that most of the Rinos (McCain, Guiliani, Romney et al) WILL NOT work with us to reinforce our rights. These Rinos have been anti-2A all along, anti-American values, anti-fiscal conservancy, and pro-anything that will destroy the US. So they're "will not" means that they have no interest, have no reason, and have never supported us in the past.
I hate this idea, but maybe Michael is right, the devil you know is better than the one you do not. If a strong 2A candidate does not make it, then stay home on election day and let the world (and future candidates) know what you did and why. As I noted in another post, politicians get the message - eventually.
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I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.
Get proactive. I just e mailed Fred and George.
What email address are you using for Fred? The 'Contact Us' form on Fred08.com?
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It has nothing to do with a bruised ego. It has everything to do with the fact that most of the Rinos (McCain, Guiliani, Romney et al) WILL NOT work with us to reinforce our rights. These Rinos have been anti-2A all along, anti-American values, anti-fiscal conservancy, and pro-anything that will destroy the US. So they're "will not" means that they have no interest, have no reason, and have never supported us in the past.
I hate this idea, but maybe Michael is right, the devil you know is better than the one you do not. If a strong 2A candidate does not make it, then stay home on election day and let the world (and future candidates) know what you did and why. As I noted in another post, politicians get the message - eventually.
2 things, 1) I've seen the acronym Rino several times on here haven't figured it out yet , POS was easy, but the closest I can come up with is "Rats In National Office" but that fits ALL of them.
2) Would you rather fight a democrat who you have to get voted out of office, that means you'r stuck with them for their whole term, or a bad republican, where influence can be exerted through the party organization until you get the chance to vote them out. Soros and Bloomburg think political power comes from a checkbook. We can use that as well until it's time to use the other option
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FIRST...I spoke with the Thompson campaign this AM...am told "we are all over this" and a statement will be forthcoming shortly!
1) RINO — Republican In Name Only
2) YES, that is exactly what I would rather do. In the face of a specific enemy, we are excellent ar rallying the troops, focusing on necessities and doing the hard tasks that have to be done to protect our gun rights. With a nightrider like George Bush and the bulk of the Republicans, they are enemies who present as friends, In the 8 years the Republicans were in power (including 6 where they held the House, Senate and Presidency), we gun owners got virtually nothing. Yes, the AWN sunsetted, but that happened only because it required inaction rather than action on the part of Congress obsessed with pork and social issues that bordered on parody. This despite the fact that the gun lobby was acknowledged as the factor that put Bush in office not once, but twice. The problem is that the Republicans have clearly decided that we — that is, the gun culture — are not worth the trouble...they assume they will get out vote anyway, so why bother?
What we are looking at here is a deal between the Bush White House and the most vicious and deeply sworn enemy of our culture, Charles Schumer, to get Bush's Attorney General through the confirmation process. Remember Schumer's "love note" to he AG? If you don't, this is from Schumer's website:
I will support Judge Michael Mukasey for attorney general.
I have spent the last nine months doing everything I can to get new leadership at the Department of Justice, and I believe the job will not be finished until we get a strong and independent attorney general. I believe Judge Mukasey is that type of person.
Now we know what George Bush had to do to get that endorsement — sell us out. Bush gets an Attorney General and not a lot of grief (plus heaven knows what else), and Schumer gets the legal groundwork for a new Assault Weapons Ban. The biggest problem for the antigunners with D.C. v. Heller is not the fear of an individual interpretation of the Second, but the fear that the Supremes will allow the D.C. handgun ban to be overturned even if they left in place "reasonable restrictions." Such a ruling would make any other outright ban, including the new Assault Weapons Ban guaranteed by all the Democratic Presidential candidates and supported by Mitt Romney and John McCain on the Republican side, unable to stand a Constitutional challenge.
What Bush has done is offer an alternative interpretation to the Supremes, supported by the "prestige" of the United States government, that will give Charles Schumer and the wingnut side of the Democratic Party the ability to ban any gun they want. The Bush amicus is a HUGE expansion of the government's power to ban guns, impossible to imagine even a month ago. Should the Supremes endorse the government's position, we are in deep, deep trouble.
Michael B
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FIRST...I spoke with the Thompson campaign this AM...am told "we are all over this" and a statement will be forthcoming shortly!
1) RINO — Republican In Name Only
2) YES, that is exactly what I would rather do. In the face of a specific enemy, we are excellent ar rallying the troops, focusing on necessities and doing the hard tasks that have to be done to protect our gun rights. With a nightrider like George Bush and the bulk of the Republicans, they are enemies who present as friends, In the 8 years the Republicans were in power (including 6 where they held the House, Senate and Presidency), we gun owners got virtually nothing. Yes, the AWN sunsetted, but that happened only because it required inaction rather than action on the part of Congress obsessed with pork and social issues that bordered on parody. This despite the fact that the gun lobby was acknowledged as the factor that put Bush in office not once, but twice. The problem is that the Republicans have clearly decided that we — that is, the gun culture — are not worth the trouble...they assume they will get out vote anyway, so why bother?
What we are looking at here is a deal between the Bush White House and the most vicious and deeply sworn enemy of our culture, Charles Schumer, to get Bush's Attorney General through the confirmation process. Remember Schumer's "love note" to he AG? If you don't, this is from Schumer's website:
Now we know what George Bush had to do to get that endorsement — sell us out. Bush gets an Attorney General and not a lot of grief (plus heaven knows what else), and Schumer gets the legal groundwork for a new Assault Weapons Ban. The biggest problem for the antigunners with D.C. v. Heller is not the fear of an individual interpretation of the Second, but the fear that the Supremes will allow the D.C. handgun ban to be overturned even if they left in place "reasonable restrictions." Such a ruling would make any other outright ban, including the new Assault Weapons Ban guaranteed by all the Democratic Presidential candidates and supported by Mitt Romney and John McCain on the Republican side, unable to stand a Constitutional challenge.
What Bush has done is offer an alternative interpretation to the Supremes, supported by the "prestige" of the United States government, that will give Charles Schumer and the wingnut side of the Democratic Party the ability to ban any gun they want. The Bush amicus is a HUGE expansion of the government's power to ban guns, impossible to imagine even a month ago. Should the Supremes endorse the government's position, we are in deep, deep trouble.
Michael B
I made certain to quote Mr. Bane's statment because Mr. Bane's statements need to be reiterated and not lost down the thread. Yes, we have a sellout here...I refer to him as "The Traitor Bush".
Before ya'll jump on MB and criticize him about stating that he won't vote unless it's specific candidates.....think about this....I voted for the lesser of evils last time (you to, eh?) and that worked out (sarcasm injected here) really well, didn't it? So I'm thinking this time..."What is the definition of insanity?"...to which I respond "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." Making sense yet?
Hey, we are all on the same side here, but that diversity stuff is not the path we need....I actually believe it would have been better if we had voted for one of the other slugs in the last two presidential elections so that in their stupidity people may have been educated by either of those two idiots (Gore & Kerry) showing their behinds. All we have is a lying dog sellout now....which gives conservatives a bad name (all the less informed do use him as an example of conservative...not you and I) and sells us out like the chumps we are (I hope the word "were" is correct and not "are")....a good reason to not vote for the idiots from New York or Massachu(hell, I don't even want to spell that state)... that would be Rudy and Mitt. If The Traitor Bush sold us out what do you think McCain will do for us....I think he'll be glad to grease us up and hand us over; heck, if you look at all he's said and done in the past in detail (not rely on someone to tell you what to think) it's pretty clear McCain is in it for McCain.
Well, flame me if you will, but I'd rather flame out as opposed to being given the option to die a slow death from RINO REPUBLICANs. We know where Obama and Hillary are coming from, if the Republicans are going to use us like a whore (don't forget the definition of insanity) I am really contemplating if it would not be better to vote for the gun-grabbing Democrat to insure that the Republican's lose. I believe it would be better to immediately confront outright lunacy and intolerance and fight the good fight while we still have some sanity in the public with people aroused rather than face "death" from a thousand cuts. Each year that goes by it seems there are more and more of them and less and less of us....better now than when it's harder later.
You guys, hey...please don't dig your heals in yet on who to support. Take a breath...remember...breath, relax, aim & squeeze. Someone here diss'ed Huckabee on taxes...do you know he wants to replace income tax with a sales tax....I'm in on that. If ya'll think among these candidates there is something more important than the 2nd Ammendment just don't forget two things 1) the 2nd Ammendment guarantees the Constitution and 2) when they come to pick up your guns how much in blood and $'s will that cost you. And I guarantee, when they come to pick up your guns it won't be a nice thing and that it's only going to be the start.
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Call us one issue voters if you wish but I will not vote for a President that wants to further curtail or possibly end one of my rights.
GWB and the republican party has sold us out.
Tom you wrote;
" 2) Would you rather fight a democrat who you have to get voted out of office, that means you'r stuck with them for their whole term, or a bad republican, where influence can be exerted through the party organization until you get the chance to vote them out. Soros and Bloomburg think political power comes from a checkbook. We can use that as well until it's time to use the other option"
What more power can we exert through the party than we have already shown? (as MB said, they would not have made it without us). They take us for granted.
Well, step on me no longer! If you want my support you will have to state and prove your loyalty to me first. It is a two way street and we have been doing all of the giving and getting bumpkiss in return. So, now YOU (Repubs) have to show me you will support me BEFORE I give you one more thing. Thompson's' record is clear and outstanding on 2A. His statement are strong and unambiguous in support of our right. NONE of the others (except Hunter) can say this nor will their records stand scrutiny.
I vote Fred or I vote not at all!
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I agree with Rastus, without 2A the rest of the constitution is toilet paper. So I reiterate what I said before, either we do what we can with what we got or we get ready to start killing people (We ARE the ones with the guns)
Which would you prefer? Maybe we can get some interior decorateing tips from Osama Bin Laden, He's been living in a hole in the ground long enough to have some ideas.Same with Saddam Hussien... Oh yeah, He's DEAD.
I'm a sarcastic smart azz, but while you sit indoors with a beverage and your computer, make no mistake, this is no joke. Every veteran out there will tell you the same 2 things, 1) It ain't always the other guy that gets killed and 2) getting killed is not the worst that can happen to you.
Personally I'd rather spend 20 years working with the ballot box and the courts than to spend the same length of time , maybe longer wrecking the countryside and causing animosity that will take generations to mend. If you want examlples of how that can go look at Veit nam, they fought the french, the Japanese , the french again,then us. They got what they wanted, but it cost them about 75 years and 1/3 of their population.
Look at the Confederacy, they lost a huge proportion of their men, it was so bad that if the war had continued another year they would have been drafting SLAVES. Their entire economic system was DESTROYED, They gave the entire country side and they still LOST. ( All you southerners out there relax, you did get new clean cities out of it, compare Boston and Charlotte.)
Unless you WANT to turn America into another Yuogoslavia, you must find a way to make the ballot box and courts work for you.
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Not only will I not vote for a RINO, if the R-rats run one thinking I have no other place to go, I'll vote for the demonrat.
I do have an alternative. I can vote for someone who will stab me in the front.
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Not only will I not vote for a RINO, if the R-rats run one thinking I have no other place to go, I'll vote for the demonrat.
I do have an alternative. I can vote for someone who will stab me in the front.
Exactly. Especially voting for someone who will stab me in the front.
I also remember the Democrat's rheteroic (sp?) and what they ended up doing. That is to say, they talked big to jack people up then went part way...like Clinton's ban...it sucked, I hate it, it was wrong, but we got to keep what we had and esentially kept the ability to buy what we wanted except for cosmetics.....but if a RINO is gonna do the same kind of things to you...you tell me....what is the difference? The commie lovin' Clinton's ban expired after a while....the traitor Bush's administration is shoving something somewhat more dangerous and permament down our throats.
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The Dem's got us right where they want us! In fighting! We might as well just start handing our guns in right now!!!!!!!!
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The Dem's got us right where they want us! In fighting! We might as well just start handing our guns in right now!!!!!!!!
Isram, I respect your opinion, but differ. Here's my reasoning and I'm open to correction in my way of thinking.
1. The fighting is not in. We (2nd A. People) are out right now. We've had our "throats slit" by one of our own. Again.
Also, with Rudy, Mitt and John it seems like a repeat performance for getting our throats slit one more time.
2. If 1 above is true, then handing in the guns at the hands of the people we supported is inevitable. Might take a few
years, but my children will certainly suffer.
3. I don't think we are talking about not supporting 2nd A. candidates. I think we are talking about
what we will do if we don't have a 2nd A. candidate to support.
4. Given the choice of supporting someone from a portion of a party (Republican) that historically lies (the RINO portion not the party)
to the people who help elect it, why not consider voting for someone who you know is lying?
5. Let's think of this as a discussion "in our house" to hash out how to address this travesty and the election.
6. I'm listening, I'm open, my mind is not made up other than I want a strong 2nd Ammendment candidate. I as a person
can't make this happen, so I may have to make a choice I don't want to make and I appreciate everyone's input.
7. If I don't have a 2nd Ammendment supporter to vote for, everything is open for evaluation.
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The Dem's got us right where they want us! In fighting! We might as well just start handing our guns in right now!!!!!!!!
The Dims have us no where. WE (the republican party) put us here with people like Spector, and Rudy and Mitt etc. They may be allowed to register and run as R but the party does not have to support them.
For politicians it's all about power (personal and party) well, we need to show them where the power is. Don't support us and we will NOT support you.
Voting for the lesser evil makes as much sense as saying I'm a little pregnant!
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We put ourselves here by playing the "lesser evil" game.
We let the people we elected, that we put in power, play "nudge nudge wink wink say no more." We let them get by with saying they were on our side but not asking them to prove it.
George Bush is living proof of that.
I am no longer in the business of votng for the "lesser evil." The lesser evil is still evil.
Michael B
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We put ourselves here by playing the "lesser evil" game.
We let the people we elected, that we put in power, play "nudge nudge wink wink say no more." We let them get by with saying they were on our side but not asking them to prove it.
George Bush is living proof of that.
I am no longer in the business of votng for the "lesser evil." The lesser evil is still evil.
Michael B
Hear, Hear, Well said!
Let the Thompson campaign know that this has lighted a fire in the 2A camp. I post on several blog sites and ALL are echoing our comments. Fred needs to strike now while the iron is hot.
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BTW, since I've said so much negative stuff, I thought I should direct you to at least one blogger who doesn't think the sky is falling and thinks the U.S. brief is not so bad:
http://rightrainbow.com/archives/2008/01/no_the_bush_adm.html
No, the Bush Administration has not betrayed gun rights; UPDATE: Should the president do himself?
Glenn Reynolds is a law professor. I am not. In fact, I’m not even a lawyer. But I can still read a brief. And in a brief on the most important Second Amendment case ever, the Bush Administration does not betray gun rights, as Professor Reynolds avers.
The administration argues that the “the Second Amendment, no less than other provisions of the Bill of Rights, secures an individual right.” Further, the administration thinks that the gun control statutes at issue in DC v. Heller may well be unconstitutional. But, says the administration, gun control is subject only to “heightened scrutiny,” and not to the “categorical rule” adopted by the court of appeals. The administration wants the case “remand[ed] for application of the proper standard of review.”
Or, as Lyle Denniston at SCOTUS Blog put it:
The Bush Administration urged the Supreme Court Friday night to rule that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to have a gun for private use, but argued that the D.C. Circuit Court went too far in applying that personal right view. The appeals court, the new brief said, seems to have adopted a “more categorical approach” to gun control laws than is proper.
In a move designed at least in part to protect federal gun laws from being struck down, the new brief urged the Justices to uphold an individual right to a gun and adopt a flexible standard for judging specific laws, and then return the pending test case from the District of Columbia back to the Circuit Court for another look.
You could say that the administration hasn’t gone far enough in defending gun rights. But I don’t think you can fairly say that the administration has betrayed gun rights.
I believe he is 100% wrong in his analysis...I can read a brief, too, and what I read is Bush opening the door for assault weapons and handgun bans. I believe that the government's move had weaked our side of the argument, breathed new life into the dying antigun movement and enhanced the stature of our primary enemies. If that isn't a stab in the back, could someone tell me what is?
Michael B
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"In a move designed at least in part to protect federal gun laws from being struck down, the new brief urged the Justices to uphold an individual right to a gun and adopt a flexible standard for judging specific laws..."
Sounds like "Yeah, it's an individual right that is open to govt interpretation as to what that means.
Pure BS. Just more smoke and mirrors to make you feel good (Individual right affirmed) while actually sticking it to you (a flexible standard).
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I'm sorry guys for sounding so cynical on my earlier post, but I am very frustrated. If one of those left, left left wing Dems wins in a landslide. All we'll hear is the people have spoken, and the country needed a change to the left. The media will have a field day with it. I hope too hell I'm wrong!!! (But I don't think so!)
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I'm sorry guys for sounding so cynical on my earlier post, but I am very frustrated. If one of those left, left left wing Dems wins in a landslide. All we'll hear is the people have spoken, and the country needed a change to the left. The media will have a field day with it. I hope too hell I'm wrong!!! (But I don't think so!)
Not if good, strong 2A candidates are sent to Congress.
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Nancy Reagan gave us the answer to gun bans, "Just say NO". what can UNARMED liberals do to us? Give us harsh looks ?
I suggest that we pick one day and put 20 Thousand gun owning voters at EVERY state capital. 20 Thou x 50 states = 1 million gun owning voters. Patriots day is to close, maybe 4 July, or Bill of rights day, has to be before the election
Now I'm off to put this to the NRA.
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I am no longer in the business of voting for the "lesser evil." The lesser evil is still evil.
Agreed. Unfortunately, the only candidates left that aren't evil are Ron Paul and Fred Thompson.
I'm not impressed with the parsing of the brief, either. If the 2nd Amendment protects an individual right (and it does), then the text is clear: "shall not be infringed."
Strict scrutiny isn't even the appropriate standard; arguing for a lesser standard is stabbing us in the back.
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OK Guys, and Gals, what do we do about it? Don't sit on our laurels, e mail, write, post and blog til the cows come home. I plan to put this on all the republican candidates websites and see what comes up, I'm not a bonafided Huckabee guy, but at the last debate, He brought up the 2a as the one that protects all the others, probably feel good stuff, but He was the only one who brought it up, without a question to respond too. I know, I've been bit by a Governor from Hope before. But is definitely time to be vocal, not just gab amongst our selves. Anybody got a plan, a proactive plan????
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See this weeks shooting wire
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I think I'll put in my 2 cents on this.
I just took my absentee MI primary ballot to the township clerk's office on the way to the gym. I am way over 60 so that's the way I get to vote. I like Fred. But I did not vote for him. He never set foot in my state to ask for my vote. I like Duncan as well. I did not vote for him either. Because neither Fred or Duncan has any chance at all in Michigan. So, I voted for the one I thought could beat the Democrats. At least the RINOs have to pretend to pay attention to us. The Dems do not ever pay attention and pursue agendas that are hurtful, e.g. higher taxes, more hateful gun control.
Further the 2006 election sent a strong message to the Republicans left in Congress. Congress where the laws start is the more important place to me. A RINO president who can't get the support of Congress is better to me than a Dem president who has a Dem Congress to back him or her to do bad things.
I will vote in November as well. And I will vote again for the candidate that I think will be best for the country. To hell with this lesser of two evils thinking. You have to vote one way or the other that's it. That is the way it works. If you don't go to the polls and vote, you are voting for the bad guys in the race.
I am not entirely happy with the government's brief. But there better be other briefs for the Supreems to consider as well or I have been sending money to the NRA for many years for naught. I see the subject brief as what one would expect from the ATF and the Justice functionaries -- no surprise there. True, I would have hoped for some more adult supervision from Bush, but he ran on support for the AWB and signed McCain Feingold. So there is no surprise there either, even though I hoped for better. I KNOW it would have been worse with either Gore or Kerry. And will be worse with H. Clinton.
That's a lot for 2 cents.
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George II has followed in his father's footsteps. Neither has really done any favors for us gunowners. I voted for George II twice, and he was still better than either Democrat opponant. That's not saying much. We should have asked, no, demanded that Bush II turn back all of the garbage restrictions, including surplus ammo and guns, from Clinton and Bush I. The rank and file Republicans badly need to regain the party from the party royalty that gave us Bush I, Dole, and Bush II.
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"In a move designed at least in part to protect federal gun laws from being struck down, the new brief urged the Justices to uphold an individual right to a gun and adopt a flexible standard for judging specific laws..."
Sounds like "Yeah, it's an individual right that is open to govt interpretation as to what that means.
Pure BS. Just more smoke and mirrors to make you feel good (Individual right affirmed) while actually sticking it to you (a flexible standard).
Chill out kewl cat ;)....I'm sure they'd be stickin' you with something flexible.... :o
They'll probably need that mirror and want to have a smoke afterwards..... :-*
SCOTUS....it just sounds nast, doesn't it?
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a) the practical impact of the challenged restric-
tions on the plaintiff’s ability to possess firearms for
lawful purposes (which depends in turn on the nature
and functional adequacy of available alternatives[/i]), ITALICS MINE
Can y'all imagine the ALTRENATIVES the Bushocrats will offer us? Big fat rocks, peashooters, maybe slingshots. I'm really hot to learn whether my air pistol will take down a boarhog as fast and as decisively as my SW.460. Alternatives? WHAT alternatives?
There's just NO ALTERNATIVES. Like John Lennon hisself sang, "happiness is a warm gun." The framers knew what they were doing when the told us that congress SHALL MAKE NO LAWS...
Though technology makes the Framers' point less salient than in 1776, it's still true that the ULTIMATE defense the people have against a tyrannical government of "patriots" like Bush, Pelosi, Reid, McCain, Obama and the rest of 'em, is an armed citizenry. A HEAVILY armed citizenry.
The government is now an entity unto itself and it's goal is to gain complete control of all of us. Especially those of us that work and toil and make the danged country what it is. This trend that began with B.S. Clinton and is so astonishingly lock-stepped by the RINO-in-Chief, the King of Bushocrats himself, is a LOUD and CLEAR signal to stockpile arms and ammo starting right now. The day is coming when our "own" government will be coming after guys and gals just like me and you.
ALTERNATIVES???
Poop on them all. Out of my cold, dead hands...
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I think I'll put in my 2 cents on this.
I just took my absentee MI primary ballot to the township clerk's office on the way to the gym. I am way over 60 so that's the way I get to vote. I like Fred. But I did not vote for him. He never set foot in my state to ask for my vote. I like Duncan as well. I did not vote for him either. Because neither Fred or Duncan has any chance at all in Michigan. So, I voted for the one I thought could beat the Democrats. At least the RINOs have to pretend to pay attention to us. The Dems do not ever pay attention and pursue agendas that are hurtful, e.g. higher taxes, more hateful gun control.
Further the 2006 election sent a strong message to the Republicans left in Congress. Congress where the laws start is the more important place to me. A RINO president who can't get the support of Congress is better to me than a Dem president who has a Dem Congress to back him or her to do bad things.
I will vote in November as well. And I will vote again for the candidate that I think will be best for the country. To hell with this lesser of two evils thinking. You have to vote one way or the other that's it. That is the way it works. If you don't go to the polls and vote, you are voting for the bad guys in the race.
I am not entirely happy with the government's brief. But there better be other briefs for the Supreems to consider as well or I have been sending money to the NRA for many years for naught. I see the subject brief as what one would expect from the ATF and the Justice functionaries -- no surprise there. True, I would have hoped for some more adult supervision from Bush, but he ran on support for the AWB and signed McCain Feingold. So there is no surprise there either, even though I hoped for better. I KNOW it would have been worse with either Gore or Kerry. And will be worse with H. Clinton.
That's a lot for 2 cents.
Bill I agree with you 100%!! Everyone seems to think it has to get worse before it gets better. In this case, worse would be Dems in control of congress and the Presidency. If that happens we are DONE! The hard line gun grabbers would have nothing stoping them! You guys better start buying PVC pipe and digging holes in your yard to bury your guns!
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There is a gun newsletter that had an interesting artical this week about that brief www.shootingwire.com
He says it was submited by BATF paperpushers looking to protect their jobs. What he quotes contains MAJOR flaws.
Remember what the constitution says about assigned powers when you read it
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a) the practical impact of the challenged restric-
tions on the plaintiff’s ability to possess firearms for
lawful purposes (which depends in turn on the nature
and functional adequacy of available alternatives[/i]), ITALICS MINE
Can y'all imagine the ALTRENATIVES the Bushocrats will offer us? Big fat rocks, peashooters, maybe slingshots. I'm really hot to learn whether my air pistol will take down a boarhog as fast and as decisively as my SW.460. Alternatives? WHAT alternatives?
There's just NO ALTERNATIVES. Like John Lennon hisself sang, "happiness is a warm gun." The framers knew what they were doing when the told us that congress SHALL MAKE NO LAWS...
Though technology makes the Framers' point less salient than in 1776, it's still true that the ULTIMATE defense the people have against a tyrannical government of "patriots" like Bush, Pelosi, Reid, McCain, Obama and the rest of 'em, is an armed citizenry. A HEAVILY armed citizenry.
The government is now an entity unto itself and it's goal is to gain complete control of all of us. Especially those of us that work and toil and make the danged country what it is. This trend that began with B.S. Clinton and is so astonishingly lock-stepped by the RINO-in-Chief, the King of Bushocrats himself, is a LOUD and CLEAR signal to stockpile arms and ammo starting right now. The day is coming when our "own" government will be coming after guys and gals just like me and you.
ALTERNATIVES???
Poop on them all. Out of my cold, dead hands...
Hear! Hear!
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Bad Brief: The Bush DOJ shoots at the Second Amedment
By John R. Lott, Jr.
Quotes by the two sides’ lawyers say it all. The District’s acting attorney general, Peter Nickles, happily noted that the Justice Department’s brief was a “somewhat surprising and very favorable development.” Alan Gura, the attorney who will be representing those challenging the ban before the Supreme Court, accused the Bush administration of “basically siding with the District of Columbia” and said that “This is definitely hostile to our position.”
More at link http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/NROBushDCGunBan011408.html
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"I am no longer in the business of voting for the "lesser evil." The lesser evil is still evil."
MB is not alone, Duncan Hunter is a lost cause, so it's Fred or nothing for me. I am off the SC tomorrow to volunteer, because when I sit out the election if Fred is not on the (R) ticket, I don't want it to be just sour grapes. And I am certain we will not be alone. Sure am glad I voted for the GW twice (NOT). From McCain-Feingold to Harriet Meirs, it has been really "special". Who was it that sang "Won't get fooled again"?
I expect that the SCOTUS will basically agree with the Justice brief, and the Liberals will cry in public and break out the champagne in private.
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"I am no longer in the business of voting for the "lesser evil." The lesser evil is still evil."
I expect that the SCOTUS will basically agree with the Justice brief, and the Liberals will cry in public and break out the champagne in private.
Where the hell are we going to be in four years, when the Dems are in control of congress and the Presidency???? Sitting out and just letting them have a free pass to take over is not the way to go! I can't have what I want so I'm gona hold my breath! That's gonna work! Lets face it a RINO is better than the alturnitive! Did you guys ever hear the term "Live to fight another day"? If we sit this one out, there just might not be another day! The damage that they can do to us, and our rights unabaited it just too much to risk!!!!!
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Where the hell are we going to be in four years, when the Dems are in control of congress and the Presidency???? Sitting out and just letting them have a free pass to take over is not the way to go! I can't have what I want so I'm gona hold my breath! That's gonna work! Lets face it a RINO is better than the alturnitive! Did you guys ever hear the term "Live to fight another day"? If we sit this one out, there just might not be another day! The damage that they can do to us, and our rights unabaited it just too much to risk!!!!!
It won't be any different with the RINOs.
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It won't be any different with the RINOs.
It IS different. We have a RINO now and what did we lose? As I said before, let the Dems win in a landslide and you haven't done anything but prove there point! It will all be taken out of context. "The country needed a change to the left" is all you'll hear. What does that prove? Did you ever see us get anything back that was taken away? Let the Dems in and see what we lose! I like Fred too! But he is as lazy as two dead flies! He doesn't even go to a state that he thinks he can't win. We are hitching our wagon to a dead horse!
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No, it is not different. Any of the front runners will do the same to us.
If the NRA won't stand up for us (and with their press release on this they didn't) then WE have to send a message. The only way we can is to vote strict 2A. Rooty, Myth and McInsane are anti 2A.
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No, it is not different. Any of the front runners will do the same to us.
If the NRA won't stand up for us (and with their press release on this they didn't) then WE have to send a message. The only way we can is to vote strict 2A. Rooty, Myth and McInsane are anti 2A.
If a RINO wins we lose. If a Dem wins we may lose everything! That's how I see it.
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Buy Ammo
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I have to agree that we may lose either way we go with this election. Maybe the time has come for gun owners, hunters, shooters and other lovers of the 2nd Amendment to form a new party and run our own candidates for office. Surely we have enough savvy individuals in our collective organizations to gain political offices and protect the rights of the people. And why aren't we writing letters to the editors of papers and making phone calls and being as verbal as the civil rights movement was in the 60's? Write letters, email your local politicians VOTE for PROGUN candidates and join organizations devoted to promoting firearms and the 2nd amendment. THIS is how we can win against those who would take away what the constitution guarantees us.
John
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John that is music to my ears, a PRACTICAL idea. Lets thrash this one out. We need talking points ,some kind of coordination, Allies a cool logo , can't do anything without a cool logo or a ribbon, h yeah , some candidates would help. I'm tired worked all night but this idea needs to be kicked around.
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Thanks Tom. It's time to get practical. I, like so many of you, belong to USPSA, IDPA and NRA. We have the people, we should have the knowledge and common sense to work this out. WE are not the enemy but it sure looks like our currently elected officials ARE! Maybe others on this forum have ideas on this?
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Not THAT tired after all :D Any current politician , has to have already prooven himself before we do business with them, Identify and utilize "Good" journalists, ones not already identified with gun rights are better John Stossel for example. Non stereotyped spokespeople, women , elderly, minorities, Gays, (Pink Pistols can help) vererans from same groups. We need a SHORT statement/ handout that states the case in idiot proof terms.
We can not hope to win anything in this election, it took blacks 100 years, but we can start and we can build momentum. We need finance, We have the Editorial expertise of MB, That and our evil minds can give us a killer propaganda machine. Just because we believe this is right does not mean we can convince enough people, we need to BS the others just like the Commies did with thier "Peace Land Bread " slogan and the Nazi's "Germany Awake" slogans, We need good publicity. The truth of our reasoning is irrelevant, being right is not enough , We need to convince people and make the undicided ashamed not to agree with us . We need to make it COOL , like global warming. Now I need sleep.
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How about Constitution Party ? It's not just the 2A that is under attack , thats just the test bed, mcCain Fiengold was an attack on the first amendment, mandatory drug testing violates the fifth amendment, Now they are tring to pass a union voting law that would undermine the right to a secret ballot by taking it away from Union members. By going to a cashless society they even want to take away your right to use your money as you wish in privacy.
We , of ALL people need to defend the WHOLE constitution,not just the parts WE like. We need to target the Elitist swine like Bloomberg outlawing trans fat in NY while he munches Cheez-its which are full of ... You geussed it trans fats.
The reason socialist elitists want to cut smoking, Fatty Foods etc is Not because they give a rats butt about your health, but because if you are sick , or dying then you are not working to make them richer and more powerful.
It's an accepted fact that some one on their death bed does not hold The Bloombergs et-al in the proper degree of awe and respect.
If WE don't act now what goes next, right to assemble, or right to petion for redress of greivences ? Maybe The socialist elite will decide that Blacks don't vote right , or women. Maybe they will decide that Illegal searc and seizure isn't THAT bad. It's time to take a stand and a new party is a much better alternitiveto voting for scum or Armed rebellion (which is LEGAL under the 10th amendment to the NH state constitution)
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MB, Marshal,
Here is another "Deafening Silence"...Outddoor Channel, and other 'sportsman type" channels.
Why not a LIVE broadcast of industry and legal minds picking apart the DC and US briefs? It would send a VERY loud and visible message. It would HAVE to be mentioned in the MSM and it would get our displeasure out there. Or how about running Mr Hardy's' documentary.
On the podcast;
Jim said we are looking short term and we need to look long term. I respectfully disagree with this statement. We have been trying to get this before the SC for decades (or longer), and in the mean time trying to stem the tide of 2A infringement. How much more "long term" can we stand?
As he said we will need to go into "damage control" AGAIN! We did that and then when we had what we thought we wanted (R pres and congress) then we let them off the hook. We did not pressure them to correct the mess. Well NOW is the time to stand up and say NO MORE.
No More voting for the lesser evil, no more blind support, no more being happy with status quo. NO MORE!
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>:(
It is time we go on the offensive against the back stabbers and I mean right damned NOW!
It is beyond the time of gentlemanly discourse and debate.
We put people in office to protect our rights and, yet again, get crap in return.
Needless to say I am PISSED majorly over this and wont go quietly in the night over this.
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Hazcat and Tom are both onto something. Campaign our own candidates who will support the entire Constitution but also get this onto open TV. It's past time for being defensive, it is time that we go on the Offense and take the fight to those who would take away our liberties. My father, my grandfather and my great great grandfather did not fight wars and risk their lives so that a bunch of whining puking politicians could feel that it is their right to spit on the freedoms guaranteed by the constitution. I did not spend 22 years as a police officer to see the rights of the people to defend themselves against criminals taken away. Hold reporters responsible for what they report, hold politicians responsible for how they vote on issues and we now have to become more active and vocal than at any time in history if we are to keep our rights intact.
John
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The political die is cast. Only when outrage turns into desperation will this system change. I don't think the U.S. public is nearly there yet. Too comfortable. Might take Osama or Chelsea's Momma to get there, but is that the fate we willingly leave to our children by not participating iin the process? Disaster by default is abandonment of principle.
More free corn, anyone? Voter, "Yes, please, and I'll vote for you even if you have horns, pitchfork and tail. Just keep the corn coming". It's not cutting back on the free corn, but actually running out, that will compel the pigs to go forage for themselves, as there is no other reason for self restraint.
Mac
Thanks to M'ette for the analogy.
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Didn't mean to kill the thread. While I'm here though, do I correctly understand that what most here are advocating requires complete repeal of the Gun Control Act of '68 and the National Firearms Act to attain a satisfactory political/legal victory? No rules? What about the felons, illegals, fugitives? Would you buy a gun from an unknown, unaccountable, unlicensed manufacturer? I, personally, am comfortable that they can be safely tucked away for long periods of time in Federal penitentiaries. Mac.
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The "No rules " bit works for me. Let me point out that laws don't keep Felons etc from getting guns now. Shoddy manufacturing will be limited by the market, If you buy a gun thats a piece of junk will you keep quite or will you come on this forum and tell everyone "manufacturer X makes junk" . The National Firearms act was passed because of gangsters and Bank robbers using them to commit crimes. Well bank robbing and murder were already illegal, this law was nothing more than window dressing. I KNOW Mac can remember before '68 you could buy guns MAILORDER, we didn't have school shootings , we didn't have wackos shooting up shopping malls. (of course we didn't have shopping malls so THERE's the problem, never mind guns, ban malls)
Seriuosly, Yes I believe we should repeal the gun control act of 68. It did not limit crime, which was its alleged goal.
The NFA was more a tax measure and would probably stand up to any challenge we could launch.
Here in NH there was a girl involved in commiting and covering up a murder 30 years ago after 28 or so years the athorities caught up with her (she may have turned herself in, I'm not up on the details) yesterdays paper said she will be released in June 08 sentanced to 15 MONTHES she will have served 1YEAR and be paroled. Not a bad deal if you are a murderer.
If you want to make America safe LOCK UP THE DAM CRIMINALS . I do not know of a single case where a pistol or knife jumped up and attacked someone. The weapon is not the problem, THE CROOK IS THE PROBLEM. and I suspect Mac only wrote that to get me RILED UP. Mission Accomplished :D
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While we are (I am) discussing window dressing, the only thing the NICS instant check seems to accomplish is letting gun owners say "We're Govt approved" I used that myself in a letter to the editor recently. It allows us to give a smug answer to our foes without actually preventing ANYONE from getting a gun (except lawabiding people)
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The "No rules " bit works for me. Let me point out that laws don't keep Felons etc from getting guns now. Shoddy manufacturing will be limited by the market, If you buy a gun thats a piece of junk will you keep quite or will you come on this forum and tell everyone "manufacturer X makes junk" . The National Firearms act was passed because of gangsters and Bank robbers using them to commit crimes. Well bank robbing and murder were already illegal, this law was nothing more than window dressing. I KNOW Mac can remember before '68 you could buy guns MAILORDER, we didn't have school shootings , we didn't have wackos shooting up shopping malls. (of course we didn't have shopping malls so THERE's the problem, never mind guns, ban malls)
Seriuosly, Yes I believe we should repeal the gun control act of 68. It did not limit crime, which was its alleged goal.
The NFA was more a tax measure and would probably stand up to any challenge we could launch.
Here in NH there was a girl involved in commiting and covering up a murder 30 years ago after 28 or so years the athorities caught up with her (she may have turned herself in, I'm not up on the details) yesterdays paper said she will be released in June 08 sentanced to 15 MONTHES she will have served 1YEAR and be paroled. Not a bad deal if you are a murderer.
If you want to make America safe LOCK UP THE DAM CRIMINALS . I do not know of a single case where a pistol or knife jumped up and attacked someone. The weapon is not the problem, THE CROOK IS THE PROBLEM. and I suspect Mac only wrote that to get me RILED UP. Mission Accomplished :D
Actually, the NFA was passed because the US gummint was totally incapable of stopping criminals like Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde. These criminals made the gummint look bad, and we just can't have ordinary - and they were very ordinary BTW - criminals making the gummint look bad now, can we?
And if the criminals are bad enough, don't lock them up, execute them and clean the gene pool. I am tired of paying exorbitant taxes to maintain lifestyles for thugs from MS-13 and the like.
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How much are we paying to support Ramsi Yousef, Ted Kozinski, and Terry Nichols. I know we built a new prison for those types, The "Supermax" out in Colorado. But how much does it cost to actually keep them alive, fed ,heated , guarded etc per day?
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A hell of a lot more than a 45 bullet~~ ::)
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Sorry Tom. We just aren't going to see eye to eye on this, but the effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) of the judicial system is one area where we agree. The Federal sentencing guidelines relating to violations of the GCA or NFA could certainly be tweaked to make a better deterrent for violations (felons, bombers, etc) if the right guys were elected, appointed and properly educated. But that's what we are really talking about anyway, isn't it?
Good examples too. Back up in time on each on those three. Here are arguably mentally impaired men, by hatred, disease or delusion, sitting in their living room, surrounded by hate papers and home made bombs. There are lots of people who would have absolutely evolved into a Kozinski or Nichols (IMO) had they not been caught and confined, for a long time, because there is a GCA/NFA.
Risking exile, I say we need to elect honest citizens who understand the difference between necessary regulation and political strangulation throughout all matters entrusted to them by the legal, voting populous. Don't toss it all. Fix it. Better minds than mine on this site could accomplish that restoration of the Founders vision if we could only direct that Will. The Founders didn't trust felons with guns either. Respectfully, Mac.
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The founders didn't trust felons with a vote either. But I do not understand how you can support (?) Justify the GCA which only effects people who obey the law. The only law that will work is the law of averages. If you are a robber, murderer or rapist eventually some law abiding citizen is going to shoot you. Thats how you lowwer crime.
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I agree with Rastus, without 2A the rest of the constitution is toilet paper. So I reiterate what I said before, either we do what we can with what we got or we get ready to start killing people (We ARE the ones with the guns)
Which would you prefer? Maybe we can get some interior decorateing tips from Osama Bin Laden, He's been living in a hole in the ground long enough to have some ideas.Same with Saddam Hussien... Oh yeah, He's DEAD.
I'm a sarcastic smart azz, but while you sit indoors with a beverage and your computer, make no mistake, this is no joke. Every veteran out there will tell you the same 2 things, 1) It ain't always the other guy that gets killed and 2) getting killed is not the worst that can happen to you.
Personally I'd rather spend 20 years working with the ballot box and the courts than to spend the same length of time , maybe longer wrecking the countryside and causing animosity that will take generations to mend. If you want examlples of how that can go look at Veit nam, they fought the french, the Japanese , the french again,then us. They got what they wanted, but it cost them about 75 years and 1/3 of their population.
Look at the Confederacy, they lost a huge proportion of their men, it was so bad that if the war had continued another year they would have been drafting SLAVES. Their entire economic system was DESTROYED, They gave the entire country side and they still LOST. ( All you southerners out there relax, you did get new clean cities out of it, compare Boston and Charlotte.)
Unless you WANT to turn America into another Yuogoslavia, you must find a way to make the ballot box and courts work for you.
Sometimes I need a bit of time to think about things...but suffice to say I don't agree in total with the quote above while at the same time Tom made relevant and salient points that cannot be avoided and Tom exhibits obvious wisdom. For myself, I contemplate some apples to oranges comparisons: 1) Viet Nam was between a people (each manipulated, no doubt), but I think the point here is that the outsiders lost it in the end. There is no comparison to the US here with an armed citizen uprising within the US...unless of course Mexico, China, Venuezuela or someone else sends in troops. 2) Confederacy: Two distinct political systems (nations) representing two different countries at war..again not a comparison to a general uprising. 3) Yugoslavia..getting closer, and consider, are we closer every day as we lose our national identity in what would be considered an invasion by most countries. So, consider is a conflict inevitable, if so is it better for a conflict to occur sooner or later?
Now contrast the statements above to our national history; forefathers (and mothers and children) that died and risked it all to remain free. Life, family and property risked and lost but to be free. Are we convicted by our principles or just of a strong opinion? Are we willing to lose our possessions to be free, or do we prefer our comforts over our freedom? Be certain of this, our comforts are the highest standard in the world and under attack by the envious, the UN, environmental extremists and many politicians...there is no Bill of Rights to have electric heat or a nice car.
So each here must search themselves to know who they are. Are you who are reading this a person of strong opinion or a man or woman of conviction? If for those of us who claim conviction, we are who we claim we are, then we must sacrifice. But do you, if you claim to be a person of conviction, sacrifice even the time to write to your U.S. Congressional delegates or give to the NRA or GOA in lieu of a single restaurant outing? Will you speak out when given the opportunity or do you strive to get along?
For those who claim conviction, are you willing to yield a life of comfort to avoid a yoke? Yes, I acknowledge it's not the other guy who dies all of the time, but the truth is many who claim to be patriots will not send in a membership to any 2nd Ammendment support organization because of some lame excuse that whoever that organization is....is a sellout. Realistically, the sellout is the attitude, not the organization because as a gun owner if you have convinced yourself your are justified to not to write a letter or send in $10...I say that is, at best, only strongly opinionated. Stongly opinionated people don't need to read any futher, you won't get it.
I have a lot to lose. I'm a professional engineer with a Master's Degree that's been blessed with a great looking wife, great children, a good job, a full gun safe, bass boat, etc. Though I have no military service, I have offered up my life. First by staying with an offshore platform that had a blowout and a certainty of explosion to shut off an out-of-control well with the certainty that it would blow up before I finished someone else's job. Second, I got a chance to offer my life for one of my children's lives...no hesitation there...we both made it out alive. I know who I am, be certain of who you are.
If I have to die or live in a hole to avoid tyranny or a boot on my throat, so be it.
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~~It is obvious to me that your "bit of time" to think about things proved to be substantially beneficial.
Very well said Rastus ! I read it once... then I read it again, more slowly, and then again. After reading it the 4th time, I sit back in my chair..silently pondering....wondering....how many of us are certain of who we are and will actually be ready to "do what it takes"?
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I believe that if the politicians really believed we are who we say we are then issues advancing gun control would evaporate.
This is not the time to restrain boldness in our conversations.
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Rastus, Yes, I write letters and donate as finances allow. I didn't say or mean to insinuate that I would hesitate to do what was needed, Just that I would not be happy about it. Just look for the foxhole with the most complaining coming out of it :D
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Rastus, Yes, I write letters and donate as finances allow. I didn't say or mean to insinuate that I would hesitate to do what was needed, Just that I would not be happy about it. Just look for the foxhole with the most complaining coming out of it :D
I absolutely did not mean to imply that you are anything less than sincere or that you aren't doing your part. You are, obviously from your comments, a thoughtful, stand-up guy that's not afraid to be a man and to be bold....and I do not say that condenscendingly. I apologize for not making that distinction when I drifted towards (who you righteously described as) those in "..the foxhole with the most complaining coming out of it".
You are right to make the point and remind us that most don't know the cost freedom....I believe you and I are both saying beware those with strong opinions and that those with strong opinions might first reflect to count the cost before they count themselves in. What I intended was to use your quote to make us consider our past, how this nation got to where it is today, and for us all look at who we are and wherein lies "our treasure".
We must all know our foundation. If we recognize our foundation as weak then one should try to understand how he arrived where he is and what must be done to give himself the strength to stand. This discussion of the amicus brief has really helped me to remember who I am and what I came out of to receive the blessing I have.
God first, then family, everything else is to be used as support or sacrifice for the first two.
Ken
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Same opinion from differant directions. :D
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I commend to you all the Editorial in today's (22 Jan) Wall Street Journal.
I don't know how to link to it. Maybe one of you computer savvy dudes can let us know how to link to it.
Basically the WSJ blasts the Solicitor General's brief and the White House for letting it out.
Perhaps there will be a turn in the tide if enough heck is raised with our Representatives. In Michigan it is a waste of time to write to our Senators, but I think letting your Representative know how you feel might be worth the trouble. After all -- all of them are up for election this year.
I will not stay home in November and I will vote for whomever is the best for the country IMO.
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Bill,
Just go the the article and the copy the URL address (http://www.whatever.com) and then just paste it into your comments.
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Hazcat,
Thanks. But I read the article in the paper not on the net. So there is no URL to copy.
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Hazcat,
Thanks. But I read the article in the paper not on the net. So there is no URL to copy.
Well that DOES make it a tad more difficult! :)
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I commend to you all the Editorial in today's (22 Jan) Wall Street Journal.
I don't know how to link to it. Maybe one of you computer savvy dudes can let us know how to link to it.
Basically the WSJ blasts the Solicitor General's brief and the White House for letting it out.
Perhaps there will be a turn in the tide if enough heck is raised with our Representatives. In Michigan it is a waste of time to write to our Senators, but I think letting your Representative know how you feel might be worth the trouble. After all -- all of them are up for election this year.
I will not stay home in November and I will vote for whomever is the best for the country IMO.
Here is the url http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120096108857304967.html?mod=opinion_journal_main_stories
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The US Treasury collects BILLIONS every year from the manufacturers of alcohol, tobacco firearms and explosives. They are desperate to retain the authority to collect it without 2ND Amendment challenge. The positive side of that reality is that the more firearms that are made and sold, the more revenue the Treasury receives. That is a good thing. Mac.
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It's been a month since the last post. Updates on this subject in light of the recent political directions and the other filings?