The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on April 22, 2010, 12:11:24 PM
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On Wednesday April 21, 2010, 4:52 pm EDT
MEXICO CITY (AP) -- The Mexican government criticized Wednesday a tough immigration law approved this week by Arizona legislators, saying it could result in rights violations and racial profiling and affect cross-border relations.
Mexico's Foreign Relations Department said in a statement relayed through Mexico's U.S. embassy that it viewed the measure with great concern and said it "could have potentially serious effects on the civil rights" of Mexican nationals.
"Mexico views with concern the possible negative effects the measure could have, if approved, on the development of the ties of friendship, culture, commerce and tourism that have characterized Mexico's relations with Arizona for generations," according to the statement.
The law has been approved by the Arizona legislators and is awaiting consideration by Gov. Jan Brewer. The measures makes it a state crime for migrants to be in Arizona without documents.
Mexico also said the bill "opens the door to the inappropriate use of racial profiling."
An estimated 11.8 million Mexicans live in the United States. A large percentage are undocumented, and Arizona has been one of the main routes for undocumented migration into the United States.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Mexican-govt-slams-Arizona-apf-3656534841.html?x=0&.v=1
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f..k 'em!
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Right Timothy...and I'll raise you a F--kety f--k f--k them f--kers. Get a damn green card or shut the hell up.
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If Mexico doesn't like it, it must be a good idea. ;D
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Right Timothy...and I'll raise you a F--kety f--k f--k them f--kers. Get a damn green card or shut the hell up.
+1 and a big f..k 'em
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I am in complete agreement. No further comment needed.
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+1 and a big f..k 'em
+1 here.
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I am in complete agreement. No further comment needed.
I was gonna mention..... "Hang it in yur ass!"
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I really doubt AZ will be profiling anyone in Mexico, so it isn't any of their concern...
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People who are here illegally have no rights that can be violated. F**k 'em all.
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have you ever seen mexicos immagration laws?
tell them to stick it where the sun does not shine.
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I wish every state would pass the same law, we don't need the illegals and lets use Mexico's laws on this one. F..kem and the politicians that want amnesty for this worthless trash
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I have fought against the illegal alien invasion for years with activisim and letters to my Senators and Congressmen along with the sitting Pres. starting with G. Bush Sr., I have no intention to stop now. It really frosts my arse when our Gov. lets the mexican gov. dictate how we are going to enforce our immigration laws and how we are going to treat those immigration law breaking illegals.
There are millions of legal Americans that complain about the illegal alien invasion, they scream and yell but do nothig to let the fools on the hill know how they feel about it. I understand everyones frustration with our Fed. Gov. refusing to do anything about it hence individual states like AZ. & OK enact their own and the useless corrupt Mexican gov complains. Instead of throwing around the f word regarding the millions of illegals in our Great Nation put your energy into writting letters to your state & federal representatives - it works much better ;). When the Kennedy/McCain amnesty bill was introduced a few yrs back millions of people flooded the reps in Wash.D.C. phones with so many calls it overloaded the circuits and shut the system down - they dropped the bill asap. If you want to know who your state & fed. reps are look them up on line, go to www.numbersusa.com or www.alipac.us or let me know & I'll post'em for ya.
Take care & watch your back - Frosty
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After that last post blasting folks I thought I'd throw this out to you with the hope it'll motivate folks to get involved to write their fools on the hill in D.C.
*MOVING TO MEXICO
Dear President Obama:
I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my
health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.
We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. Into Mexico,
and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.
We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration
quotas and laws.
I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you
mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?
Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need,
whether I use them or not.
3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.
4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual)
teachers.
5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and
history.
6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at
their school.
7. Please plan to feed my grand kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to
government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico , but, I don't plan to
purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to
learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from
their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has
at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. Flag from my house top, put U S. Flag decals on
my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any
complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have
any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely
nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the
strain we might place on their economy.
14. I want to receive free food stamps.
15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.
16. I'll need Income tax credits so although I don't pay Mexican Taxes, I'll
receive money from the government.
17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov't pays $4,500 to help me buy a
new car.
18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social
Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for
all his people who walk over to the U.S. From Mexico . I am sure that
President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
Thank you so much for your kind help. *You're the man!!!*
No matter where I go, there I am.
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have you ever seen mexicos immagration laws?
tell them to stick it where the sun does not shine.
EXACTLY!
oh,...er uh,....No Habla Espanol. They need BADGES, preferably the steekin' kind hombre.... ;)
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have you ever seen mexicos immagration laws?
From what I understand, if you try and cross into Mexico from the south, they throw you back over the line..... ONCE!
The next time you try, they shoot you on the spot!
It's a method that probably works quite well.
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Basically, the mexican "bitch meter" is employed as a barometer to designate the effectiveness of any illegal invader law. The more they bitch, the better the law. If they supported a law, it should be dropped immediately in favor of something much stronger that will get them bitching. This new anti illegal invader law has them screaming bloody murder. This clearly shows it will be effective, and is the reason "Second Amendment Jan" will ink it as soon as it hits her desk. God, I love that woman! Bill T.
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You, Mexico................................... (http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/rude/1/pissed.gif)
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You, Quaker................................... (http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/rude/1/pissed.gif)
Fixed it for ya!
*I couldnt help myself :-[
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On this issue you should. I'm pretty hard core on the immigration front. Of course Mexico bitches. They get to send the young, but poor and discontented, hardchargers over the border. These are the folks that get restive and start revolutions if their ambitions are stymied. Mexico however, can send them over the border make them our problem, and get the remittance checks. Corrupt Mexican Pols win, equally corrupt US business wins, and the Mexican people and US workers lose. f..k Mexico, f..k the Chamber of Commrce, f..k LaRaza, The Catholic Bishops and the Farm Bureau, as they all collude in this.
FQ13
PS Nothing against Catholicism, just the Bishops who are pro-illegal as they know who is filling the pews and collection plates.
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From what I understand, if you try and cross into Mexico from the south, they throw you back over the line..... ONCE!
The next time you try, they shoot you on the spot!
It's a method that probably works quite well.
That sounds like a plan......
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After that last post blasting folks I thought I'd throw this out to you with the hope it'll motivate folks to get involved to write their fools on the hill in D.C.
*MOVING TO MEXICO
Dear President Obama:
I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my
health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.
We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. Into Mexico,
and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.
We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration
quotas and laws.
I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you
mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?
Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need,
whether I use them or not.
3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.
4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual)
teachers.
5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and
history.
6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at
their school.
7. Please plan to feed my grand kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to
government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico , but, I don't plan to
purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to
learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from
their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has
at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. Flag from my house top, put U S. Flag decals on
my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any
complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have
any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely
nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the
strain we might place on their economy.
14. I want to receive free food stamps.
15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.
16. I'll need Income tax credits so although I don't pay Mexican Taxes, I'll
receive money from the government.
17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov't pays $4,500 to help me buy a
new car.
18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social
Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for
all his people who walk over to the U.S. From Mexico . I am sure that
President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
Thank you so much for your kind help. *You're the man!!!*
No matter where I go, there I am.
This is a fantastic post!!!! People who are not used to these things have no idea how much money WE spend to accomodate illegals. Try going to a big city ER one day and take a poll of how many of those folks are illegal. Also go to a school. Those of us who are being overrun by illegals see this on a daily basis. mom and Pop in Omaha or Minnesota might not see this but in 10 years when they are speaking mostly Spanish in Kansas and Missouri, folks MIGHT start to pay attention.
It should be, no Social Security card and green card, no medical attention or schooling. I am tired of my money going to leeches...both foreign AND domestic.
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/23/obama.immigration/index.html?hpt=T2
Obama slams Arizona immigration bill
Washington (CNN) -- President Obama criticized a controversial new immigration bill in Arizona on Friday, calling it "misguided."
"Our failure to act responsible at the federal level will only open the door to irresponsibility by others. That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and their communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe," the president said at a naturalization ceremony for members of the military.
"In fact, I've instructed members of my administration to closely monitor the situation and examine the civil rights and other implications of this legislation. But if we continue to fail to act at the federal level, we will continue to see misguided efforts opening up around the country."
He added, "As a nation, as a people, we can choose a different future, a future that keeps faith with our history, with our heritage, and with the hope that America has always inspired in the hearts of people all over the world."
The bill would require immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and require police to question people if there's reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally. It also targets those who hire illegal immigrant day laborers or knowingly transport them.
Currently, officers can check someone's immigration status if the person is suspected in another crime.
Critics argue that the new law would foster racial profiling, saying most police officers don't have enough training to look past race while investigating a person's legal status.
The bill is considered to be among the toughest immigration measures in the nation. Supporters say the measure is needed to fill a void left by the federal government's failure to enforce its immigration laws.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you brew?
"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't." - General George Patton Jr
[Democrats] are like a drunken vagrant who emerges from the alley to cause havoc every few years. They are the perpetual toothache of American politics. - Ann Coulter
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This is a fantastic post!!!! People who are not used to these things have no idea how much money WE spend to accomodate illegals. Try going to a big city ER one day and take a poll of how many of those folks are illegal. Also go to a school. Those of us who are being overrun by illegals see this on a daily basis. mom and Pop in Omaha or Minnesota might not see this but in 10 years when they are speaking mostly Spanish in Kansas and Missouri, folks MIGHT start to pay attention.
It should be, no Social Security card and green card, no medical attention or schooling. I am tired of my money going to leeches...both foreign AND domestic.
I got news for you, Burt, they've made it as far north as northwest Iowa in DROVES!!
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I got news for you, Burt, they've made it as far north as northwest Iowa in DROVES!!
It's not just a Mexican problem, all the latin speaking contries are dumping people on our shores. In the southwest and central states, it's Mexico, here it's the Dominican Republic, Haiti, et al....In Florida and the southeast it's Cuba....
I have no personal issues with ANY of these people if they abide by the rules, work hard, pay taxes and become LEGAL citizens just like those that the Post Turtle swore in today. Most every naturalized person I've ever met has deserved all the rewards that come from responsibility and hard work becasue they came here for a hand UP, not a handOUT!
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The last couple days I've been following this in the paper, on tv and on the radio. The new law says that if a law enforcement officer has reason to believe a person is an illegal alien they must check for proper documentation. All the protesters are saying is that it is wrong to require a law enforcement officer to check for proper documentation if they have reason to believe a person is an illegal. They claim it forces racial profiling and spot checks ???
I haven't heard anyone on any side say that they must go out searching or finding illegals. All both sides say is that "if they have reason to believe a person is illegal they must check."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what law enforcement should be doing with or without this law? Didn't they sign on to investigate if they suspect a crime, and isn't being in the United States illegally a crime ... hence the word illegally, and if they suspect you have broken a law ... like crossing a boarder illegally, doesn't their employment contract force them to investigate?
I feel like I was born and raised on a planet, and sometime during the night while I was sleeping someone teleported me to this wacko place >:(
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Who cares what Mexico thinks about the Arizona immigration law? I wish all the other states would pass similar laws. It is obvious the Federal Government is either not able or is not willing to address the issue.
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Who cares what Mexico thinks about the Arizona immigration law? I wish all the other states would pass similar laws. It is obvious the Federal Government is either not able or is not willing to address the issue.
Oh, 'our' government will address it as soon as they can figure out how to market amnesty to us! >:(
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I work a second job as security at hospitals in the Denver & metro area. You would not believe the number of illegals that bring their families to the ER for their "FREE" medical, it makes me want to puke. The Childrens hospital is unindated with illegal aliens receiving "FREE" medical check ups and "FREE" surgery all at the our expense - the legal Americans tax dollars. Now you know why YOUR medical bills are so high - you and I pay for the illegal aliens "FREE" medical.
Our schools are overrun with their off spring and WE pay for their "FREE" education and for the spanish/mexican translator because they refuse to assimilate and learn english. Our tax dollars pay for the signs that are everywhere printed in spanish and for spanish/mexican text books and drivers license tests. It is out of control and I encourage every legal American to write and contact their reps. to stop the illegal alien invasion of our Great Nation. I have no problem if they come here the legal way by abiding with our immigration law like every other legal immigrant has in the past/present. There are millions of people waiting in line to come here legally, what makes them so special? Oh, I forgot - corrupt corporate America wants them for cheap labor.
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I work a second job as security at hospitals in the Denver & metro area. You would not believe the number of illegals that bring their families to the ER for their "FREE" medical, it makes me want to puke. The Childrens hospital is unindated with illegal aliens receiving "FREE" medical check ups and "FREE" surgery all at the our expense - the legal Americans tax dollars. Now you know why YOUR medical bills are so high - you and I pay for the illegal aliens "FREE" medical.
Our schools are overrun with their off spring and WE pay for their "FREE" education and for the spanish/mexican translator because they refuse to assimilate and learn english. Our tax dollars pay for the signs that are everywhere printed in spanish and for spanish/mexican text books and drivers license tests. It is out of control and I encourage every legal American to write and contact their reps. to stop the illegal alien invasion of our Great Nation. I have no problem if they come here the legal way by abiding with our immigration law like every other legal immigrant has in the past/present. There are millions of people waiting in line to come here legally, what makes them so special? Oh, I forgot - corrupt corporate Liberal America wants them for cheap labor vote cattle.
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Tom, all the cattle farmers are Republicans. :D
VOTE THE BUMBS OUT!
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Then why is it the Dems pushing for amnesty ?
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They want to secure the voter base
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For once I agree with Eric. The Farm bureau and the Chamber of Commerce are not exactly liberal strongholds. There are two lies told about immigration. The first is told by corprate/farm (mostly GOP), types. It is that Americans won't do those jobs. Wrong, they won't do them for those wages and under those conditions. Clean up your act, stop running sweat shops, and hire Americans. Then pass the cost on. We'll still pay for your product. The second lie is that its about racism, this is the liberal line, but its paid for by the business interests who want a moral defense. Mosy of us don't care if you're from Guatemala or Germany, we want you legal or we want you gone and we want the guy who knowingly hired you in jail. The immigration debate is about greed and gullibility on the one hand and taking care of your own and national soveriegnty on the other. The enemy here is greed. Capitalism is great so long as it obeys the law, but it when it flouts it through mortgage fraud, ponzi schemes or hiring illegals, not so much. The folks who import, encourage and knowingly hire illgals, and fund groups like La Raza to cover for them are engaged in an ongoing criminal enterprise and should be treated accordingly. RICO any one? We had to pay for GM, we could own Hormel, Hampton Inn and every third landscaper in this country for free. We'd only need to do it about a half a dozen times to get the bastards undivided attention. Its all about money. Take the profit out of hiring illegals and people won't. If no one hires them, they won't come. I mean how many Mexicans immigrate to Haiti? None. Why? There are no jobs. Make it the same here.
Rant over
FQ13.
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They want to secure the voter base
What did you think I meant by "Vote Cattle" ?
I was referring to the Dems using border insecurity and "entitlements" to buy the illegal alien vote.
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Well, now the usual suspects are protesting the AZ law and are "vowing" to get it gone.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/24/advocates-vow-challenge-arizona-immigration-law/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/24/advocates-vow-challenge-arizona-immigration-law/)
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/23/obama.immigration/index.html?hpt=T2
Obama slams Arizona immigration bill
Washington (CNN) -- President Obama criticized a controversial new immigration bill in Arizona on Friday, calling it "misguided."
"Our failure to act responsible at the federal level will only open the door to irresponsibility by others. That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and their communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe," the president said at a naturalization ceremony for members of the military.
There is the difference.....Fairness is not forcing someone to foot the bill for anyone else....at least in my book it is.
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Has ICE deported Barry's aunt from Boston yet ??? She is an illegal :o
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She beat feet the day after the story broke.
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Who cares what Mexico thinks about the Arizona immigration law? I wish all the other states would pass similar laws. It is obvious the Federal Government is either not able or is not willing to address the issue.
CA passed a law very simlar to Az, prop 187... it was over truned in court...
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CA passed a law very simlar to Az, prop 187... it was over truned in court...
Thats fine.... This is a states rights issues as much as anything else. Barry and the justice dept should not be involved. The people of AZ want this law, and they believe that it will help reduce their crime. This law will only effect their state and if this is what they want then ths is what they should get. If it is to be found to be unjust or has been abused, then that must be decided by the courts. Obama is once again over stepping his bounds
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IIRC the law was over turned as it was not with in the power of the states to enact such a law.
I don't know if this is what will happen for this law, but I know if there are any hints of profiling, they will get tossed out.
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Illegal is illegal, so it doesn't matter what the court does with this law. For right now it is just sending a message as to how they feel, but as Sheriff Joe said on CNN the other morning "This is all stuff we are doing already, so it won't change our normal operation."
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Profiling - that's what the Israeli's do and they have no problems with terrorists taking over their airlines. So in my book if it looks like an illegal alien, walks & talks like an illegal alien then it's an illegal alien. If they can't produce an American ID then kick'em over the fenceline. ;D
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Profiling - that's what the Israeli's do and they have no problems with terrorists taking over their airlines. So in my book if it looks like an illegal alien, walks & talks like an illegal alien then it's an illegal alien. If they can't produce an American ID then kick'em over the fenceline. ;D
Soccer style, or like a punter? ;D
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Soccer style, or like a punter? ;D
Let's not be culturally insensitive.We must respect the fact hat we are a multi-cultural society and not flaunt Anglo norms. Soccer, excuse me, foot ball, style would be more sensetive. Via con Dios amigo. Goal!!!!!!! ;D
FQ13
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Let's not be culturally insensitive.We must respect the fact hat we are a multi-cultural society and not flaunt Anglo norms. Soccer, excuse me, foot ball, style would be more sensetive. Via con Dios amigo. Goal!!!!!!! ;D
FQ13
Some times you are the bloodthirstiest "Liber - what ever you are" I've ever seen.
But if you can't protect one Hibiscus I'm still not giving you DCI ;D
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Via con Dios amigo. Gooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!!! ;D
FQ13
Dramatic effect....more bettererr!
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Some times you are the bloodthirstiest "Liber - what ever you are" I've ever seen.
But if you can't protect one Hibiscus I'm still not giving you DCI ;D
Its like this Tom. The dog is easily bored. She's destructive when she's bored. The squirrell keeps her entertained for free. Chew toys are $5 a pop and get eaten inside a day. The hibiscus (full size) is about $50. I figure I'm coming out ahead letting the fuzzy little bastard live. How's that for cold blooded realist logic? ;D
FQ13
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Gee, have a green card? Good.
Have a Visa? Good.
Have a Drivers License? Good.
DON'T?
Than who are you, how did you get here, where are you from, and what is your business in this country illegally?
No answers, previous record?
Than you get a one way ticket..
What's the problem? AZ is doing what should have been done all along....
Other countries, including Mexico, have immigration laws that are much worse. ie North Korea, Iran, etc,...
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I heard on the radio that Obama is already on this..."We need to find a way to guide our undocumented immigrants to citizenship." No... they're criminals. How does an entire nation ignore federal law because the main stream media paints it as an inconvenience. F--k him, and F--k them.
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I heard on the radio that Obama is already on this..."We need to find a way to guide our undocumented immigrants to citizenship." No... they're criminals. How does an entire nation ignore federal law because the main stream media paints it as an inconvenience. F--k him, and F--k them.
I believe that we found the speech writing staff for Tom and tt ;D
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Yes ! ;D
Maybe UN Ambassador . ;D
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I heard on the radio that Obama is already on this..."We need to find a way to guide our undocumented immigrants to citizenship." No... they're criminals. How does an entire nation ignore federal law because the main stream media paints it as an inconvenience. F--k him, and F--k them.
Jaybet
Lets keep our eyes on the ball here. I agree, all (or most) of the 12 million illegals should go and I'll gladly pay an extra $1,000 on my tax return next year and for three or four years there after to see it happen. The problem is this. If we could click our heels toghther three times and teleport them all back home, in six months, there would be 12 million more just like them as long as we don't put the one's who knowingly hire them in jail. Its like the war on drugs. As long as there is a demand, there will be a supply. Go after the one's who create the demand (all US citizens so no charges of racism or diplomatic snafus) and the supply will dry up. Its not a problem of criminal aliens as much as it is criminal employers.
FQ13
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FQ, you're right that employers should be held responsible for their part too, but one crime doesn't excuse the other. This problem is caused by both employers and aliens. That said, if I were from Mexico, or nearly any other country in central and south America, I'd want to come here too. I may even feel obligated to do so to take care of my family. However, I sure wouldn't expect the host country to bend over backwards for me. Of course, the government here in California is constantly bending. I think bending over is their hobby.
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"We need to find a way to guide our undocumented immigrants to citizenship."
Translated: "We need to secure a way to turn this nation into a 3rd world $h!thole, just like our neighbors to the south."
If Hussein's mad now, wait until Jan inks the "Birther Bill". It's next on her list. It will force anyone who runs for President in an Arizona Primary Election to produce a valid birth certificate which must be approved by the State Of Arizona before their name can appear on the ballot. The liberal left is already whining like stuck pigs. 'Ya gotta love it! Bill T.
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Quote from: jaybet on Yesterday at 08:22:14 pm
"We need to find a way to guide our undocumented immigrants to citizenship."
Translated: "We need to secure a way to turn this nation into a 3rd world $h!thole, just like our neighbors to the south."
Proper translation. "I need a way to secure my voting block for reelection! After all it is about ME and that is justification enough to ignore the will of the people."
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Translated: "We need to secure a way to turn this nation into a 3rd world $h!thole, just like our neighbors to the south."
If Hussein's mad now, wait until Jan inks the "Birther Bill". It's next on her list. It will force anyone who runs for President in an Arizona Primary Election to produce a valid birth certificate which must be approved by the State Of Arizona before their name can appear on the ballot. The liberal left is already whining like stuck pigs. 'Ya gotta love it! Bill T.
I'm actually glad to see the birth certificate law passed. I think the Birthers are more than a bit misguided. Seriously, if this were an issue, don't you think the Clinton Machine, John McCain, with his decades of connections, the GOP and a sitting Republican President, all of whom had ample incentive to dig up every bit of dirt on BO they could find, wouldn't have figured this out? Still, enough is enough. It was fun at first to watch these guys embarrass themselves, but it is past becoming divisive. It is more than past time to just produce the damn thing. Even I am wondering why he hasn't. Good for AZ. yet again.
FQ13
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I'm actually glad to see the birth certificate law passed. I think the Birthers are more than a bit misguided. Seriously, if this were an issue, don't you think the Clinton Machine, John McCain, with his decades of connections, the GOP and a sitting Republican President, all of whom had ample incentive to dig up every bit of dirt on BO they could find, wouldn't have figured this out? Still, enough is enough. It was fun at first to watch these guys embarrass themselves, but it is past becoming divisive. It is more than past time to just produce the damn thing. Even I am wondering why he hasn't. Good for AZ. yet again.
FQ13
And we always thought that inside that thick skull there was nothing but vacuum. We were wrong. It just took 18 months of hard drilling to get to it.
As far as many others not doing anything - It may be because there is nothing to our thoughts. Or, it may be because they have become so entrenched in the system that they would rather turn a blind eye to protect their "careers" rather than commit political suicide for the right reasons. Laws like this one put everyone on an equal basis without committing sexism, racism or any other politically incorrect crime.
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Put the illegals on a ocean liner and transport them to Iraq and dump them there, and let them cross the border into Iran or some of the other crap hole countries. They will cut their heads off for border jumping in those countries. It prevent repeat offenders and second they might kill some of the terrorist.
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Put the illegals on a ocean liner and transport them to Iraq and dump them there, and let them cross the border into Iran or some of the other crap hole countries. They will cut their heads off for border jumping in those countries. It prevent repeat offenders and second they might kill some of the terrorist.
Again Bulldog, its not the border jumpers that are the real problem. They are a problem, just not the source of it. To me, complaining about the illegals is like bitching about Al Capone while sipping a Bourbon during prohibition. Low demand equals low supply. High demand equals high supply. Bitching about the suppliers is like bitching about gravity. It will never amount to a hill of beans. Want to solve this problem? Start putting lanscapers, restaruant and hotel owners and contractors in jail. They will get the message, sooner rather than later. So will the unemployed ilegals. Low demand equals low supply. Anything else is BS. I may sound a bit self assured, but history and economics are with me on this one.
FQ13
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fq13 I agree to a point. The problem where I live at it when I was a kid I worked 10 hours a day for $2 an hour the whole summer. The local kids now want summer jobs sitting at the pool being a life guard for $20 an hour, or a office job with air conditioning. Their parents have coddled them to the point that they expect this treatment without working for it.
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fq13 I agree to a point. The problem where I live at it when I was a kid I worked 10 hours a day for $2 an hour the whole summer. The local kids now want summer jobs sitting at the pool being a life guard for $20 an hour, or a office job with air conditioning. Their parents have coddled them to the point that they expect this treatment without working for it.
That is a big +1.
Not many teens these days know what 'work' is....sun-up to sun-down sweatin' all day in the hot summer tobacco patch.....oh hell, I'm having daymares.....
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Start putting lanscapers, restaruant and hotel owners and contractors in jail.FQ13
We've had that law for some time now. If a business owner has illegals working for him or her, they lose their business license. The beaners are leaving in droves because they can't find jobs. Now, with the new law, if we the people find them, they go to jail. Of course the whining liberals believe by simply inquiring on their status, we are infringing on their rights. All the liberals are doing is trying to turn the whole thing into a big catch 22. Personally I've got zero problem with raising the price of taco's to compensate. Bill T.
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All these "new" voters are needed by November....So, of course BHO is playing the race card.
Obama's express goal: "reconnecting" with the voters who voted for the first time in 2008, but who may not plan to vote in the lower-profile Congressional elections this year.
Obama speaks with unusual demographic frankness about his coalition in his appeal to "young people, African-Americans, Latinos, and women who powered our victory in 2008 [to] stand together once again."
Turning out those so-called "surge" voters -- who turned out for the first time to back Obama, but who sat out gubernatorial races in New Jersey and Virginia last year -- has become the Democrats' central pre-occupation for the midterm elections, and the new Democratic effort to nationalize the election around Obama and his agenda mark an attempt to energize those voters.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0410/Obama_seeks_to_reconnectyoung_people_AfricanAmerins_Latinos_and_women_for_2010.html?showall
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Pegleg I can not stand to eat tomatos to this day. Hell we would work in the tomato fields all day and go to another farm and put up hay for a couple of hours.
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All these "new" voters are needed by November....So, of course BHO is playing the race card.
Obama's express goal: "reconnecting" with the voters who voted for the first time in 2008, but who may not plan to vote in the lower-profile Congressional elections this year.
Obama speaks with unusual demographic frankness about his coalition in his appeal to "young people, African-Americans, Latinos, and women who powered our victory in 2008 [to] stand together once again."
Turning out those so-called "surge" voters -- who turned out for the first time to back Obama, but who sat out gubernatorial races in New Jersey and Virginia last year -- has become the Democrats' central pre-occupation for the midterm elections, and the new Democratic effort to nationalize the election around Obama and his agenda mark an attempt to energize those voters.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0410/Obama_seeks_to_reconnectyoung_people_AfricanAmerins_Latinos_and_women_for_2010.html?showall
Before you blame this all on BO, remember that the GOP tried this same thing, they just got out bid. It was Reagan who came up with the "last ever" amnesty in 1986, and Clinton with huge GOP support, that came up with the "wet foot dry foot policy". Otherwise known as the stupidest immigration law ever. Honestly, if they hit the beach in Miami they're refugees, if we catch them a hundred yards off shore they're illegalls? Didn't inhale my ass. >:(). Then we get to W. and Kennedy and McCain and "Comprehensive Immigration Reform". Here's a clue, looks a lot like BO's policy. Latinos are like blacks in early '60s or conservative Southern Christians in the late '70's. They are a large voting block that could go either way. They like the GOPs social conservatism, they like the Dems fiscal liberalism (both of which the Quaker hates). So both parties try to woo them, the GOP tried resurrecting Lincoln in the sixties for blacks, the Dems tried nominating a born again Baptist in the form of Carter in 1976. Both decided it was a fail. Thing is, that both parties want the latino vote and both are willing to shaft us to get it. There are zero good guys here except the unemployed Americans and bleeding tax payers out there that are paying for this, but no one seems to be listening to us. And slowly we turn..... :-\
FQ13
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FQ:
Thing is, that both parties want the latino vote and both are willing to shaft us to get it. There are zero good guys here except the unemployed Americans and bleeding tax payers out there that are paying for this, but no one seems to be listening to us. And slowly we turn....
100% Accurate.
Appeasement to gain votes (by either party), and not enforcing current law: (They are called illegal aliens right?) is a doomed policy that politicians can't get through their heads.
The timing and flagrance of BHO just re-affirms the problem.
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An interesting article from NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FORMER BORDER PATROL OFFICERS Visit our website: http://www.nafbpo.org regarding mexican officiials - maybe we should enforce our immigration laws like that wonderful third world s_ _ _ hole called mexico does. They criticise the U.S. regarding the new AZ enforcement & policies but .......
Prensa Libre (Guatemala) 4/22/10
Mexico detains 42 migrants, mostly Guatemalans
Mexican police detained 42 undocumented migrants, mostly Guatemalans, traveling on a freight train coming from Arriaga, Chiapas, and destined to Ixtepec, Oaxaca. The migrants indicated that a group of men carrying large-caliber firearms and with faces covered with ski masks made them get off the train. The majority of the undocumented, fearing being assaulted or kidnapped, jumped off the tops of the freight cars and fled. Shortly afterward, those detained learned that the men were Federal Police carrying out operations on the train that carried more than 400 migrants headed for the US. ”We heard two or three gunshots but don’t know if there were any wounded since it was very dark,” related one of the escapees who remained hidden in the brush and later walked to the village of Ixtepec. A coordinator of the migrant assistance center where the 42 were housed said that no Mexican immigration officers or military participated in the operation.
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They are now talking about trying to derail this new law with voter referendums, and every other political trick in the book. Brewer timed this thing perfectly. She is forcing Hussein's hand on the Federal level, and the socialist dems. are scurrying about trying to save face at the worst possible time. Six months before the mid term elections. They know Arizona enacted this law out of total frustration with the Federal government and their lackadaisical attitude toward border security. Now they're caught with their pants down and are worried about losing the mexican vote.
What's even funnier is professional ambulance chaser Al Sharpton has been drawn into this. This is a totally stupid move on his part because most blacks do not want illegals made into citizens anymore than we do. They stand to lose more from an entitlement standpoint. "Reverend Al" is cutting his own peoples throat.
Brewer pulled off this political train wreck beautifully. She advanced the throttle, and stepped out of the cab. All that remains is to watch the wreck from a safe distance. The mexicans are already acting like idiot's, solidifying the point of why we need the whole thing to begin with. Bill T.
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The mexicans are already acting like idiot's, solidifying the point of why we need the whole thing to begin with. Bill T.
I have seen a lot more violence in their protests so then in the Tea Party Protests ;)
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What's even funnier is professional ambulance chaser Al Sharpton has been drawn into this. This is a totally stupid move on his part because most blacks do not want illegals made into citizens anymore than we do. They stand to lose more from an entitlement standpoint. "Reverend Al" is cutting his own peoples throat.
Bill
You've hit the nail on the head here. I taught a class called "The history of Whiteness in America". I did so more so I could learn on the college's dime than anything as they paid for the books I needed. It was a worthwhile excersize for me, them and the students. Thing is the question of who is considered white, both socially and legally, has always been an important question here. There are even a series of Supreme Court cases (called the Pre-Requisate Cases) where the justices decided whether Armenians (white), Japanese(not white) and Syrians (at first white, then not white) could immigrate. My personal favorite was a case from the Louisiana Supreme Court from the 1920's called Roberts v La.. In it, our hero a black guy named Roberts married a white girl. He was charged with violating a state law against inter racial marriage and got 5 years hard labor. :o His lawyer got him off on appeal by sucessfully arguing that the girl was Italian and therefore not definatively white (again :o).
The one thing that was consistent through this whole history was that even though it took various immigrant groups varying degrees of time to be considered white both legally and socially there was one group that hasn't. The group that hasn't? Black folks. And don't think they aren't majorly pissed about it. One of colleagues (a scary smart black woman, whose whole attitude on life, and elected officials in particular, makes me wonder whether Toms' dad may have been stepping out at some point ;D) put it to me this way when I asked herr or help in prepping the class. She said "Shorty, that one's easy. Your mics, spics, kikes, pollacks, gooks and rag heads all get to be white and sit at the grown up's table. If we discover f....k Martians tomorrow, I'll still be a nigger". True or not, the point is that that the Right Reverend Sharpton ain't exactly winning a lot of love in the hood for helping out illegals who take jobs from blacks and are pretty racist themselves. Hell, if this were a hundred years ago, it would be like him helping poor white share croppers from Missisippi settle in New York. What is he thinking?
FQ13
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He's thinking,
" I need a publicity fix, and I need it NOW !"
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"The Mexican government Tuesday took the unusual step of issuing a travel alert urging extreme caution by Mexicans working, studying or otherwise spending time in Arizona."
Yeah, like it's safe to be in their own country. I guess beheading cops and hanging the corpses from overpasses is loosing it's effect. Such idiot's. Bill T.
http://www.examiner.com/x-8642-LA-National-Security-Examiner~y2010m4d2-Mexican-border-town-on-High-Alert-as-Mexican-Drug-Cartels-threaten-to-start-killing-children
"Brutal assassinations has been going on since Mexican President Calderon started the war on drugs shortly after taking office in 2006. Mexican newspapers report that as many as 20,000 people have been killed in Mexico as a direct result of the war."
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>:( >:( BEFORE THOSE IDIOTS TRY TO SLAM ANOTHER COUNTRY'S POLICIES, THE HEAD IDIOT IN CHARGE NEEDS TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR & FIX THEIR OWN BLANKETY-BLANK POLICIES!! THEIR "MIGRA" IS 100 TIMES WORSE WITH THE PEOPLE THAT TRY TO PASS THRU FROM THE SOUTH THAN WE HAVE EVER BEEN WITH THEIR PEOPLE. WE ARE TALKIN' ABOUT RAPE, MURDER, EXTORTION, ETC. WITH ALL THE POOR FOLKS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES COMIN' UP FROM THE SOUTH.
SO SR, CALDERON, SHUT YOUR FRIGGIN' PIEHOLE & FIX THE PROBLEMS IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY BEFORE YOU LOOK AT ANYONE ELSE!!!!! (TRY CONVICTING YOUR IN-LAW "CHAPO" GUZMAN FOR EXAMPLE >:( )
BEFORE ANYONE TRIES TO SAY I'M RACIST, MY WIFE IS FROM MEXICO BUT SHE WENT ABOUT THINGS THE LEGAL WAY :)
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Rasmussen: Majority of Latinos in Arizona support letting cops check for immigration status
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/27/rasmussen-majority-of-latinos-in-arizona-support-letting-cops-check-for-immigration-status/
Video: Whose protests are more violent? 8)
Exit Question: How long before we see a pile on of other boarder states passing the same laws?
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Rasmussen: Majority of Latinos in Arizona support letting cops check for immigration status
Video: Whose protests are more violent? 8)
Exit Question: How long before we see a pile on of other boarder states passing the same laws?
I hope it moves quick and I hope it is more than border states....Federal pressure on states to not enforce the law needs to be fought and fought by every state.
And the bit about the FOX news camera crew juggling the camera to make the riots look worse?? Now you can't make up jokes that telling....
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Exit Question: How long before we see a pile on of other boarder states passing the same laws?
I'll bet anything Rick Perry has his people drafting something very similar for Texas as we speak. Forget New Mexico and California. Too liberal, and too stupid of a government. They'll go broke trying to support them, simply because that's where they'll all run. Bill T.
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I'll bet anything Rick Perry has his people drafting something very similar for Texas as we speak. Forget New Mexico and California. Too liberal, and too stupid of a government. They'll go broke trying to support them, simply because that's where they'll all run. Bill T.
According to news reports I've read Perry is dancing on this subject.
Asked about the Arizona law, GOP Gov. Rick Perry and his Democratic challenger, Bill White, emphasized through spokespeople that immigration is a federal responsibility.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/Rep-Wants-AZ-Immigration-Law-in-Texas-92305354.html
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Rasmussen: Arizona Governor approval rating up 16%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_governor_elections/arizona/election_2010_arizona_governor
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Rasmussen: Arizona Governor approval rating up 16%
Now, THAT is gonna get the attention of every governor in the nation.
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http://www.infowars.com/pro-illegal-demonstrator-says-illegals-will-kill-americans-with-pickaxes/
This is going to get bloody before it ends. Very bloody. Bill T.
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Dont bring a pick axe to a gun fight.
See, I told ya all those guns are not ending up in Mexico.
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Dont bring a pick axe to a gun fight.
See, I told ya all those guns are not ending up in Mexico.
THAT'S RIGHT, PARDNER. THERE'S A COUPLE IN MY TRUCK & MY WIFE'S TRUCK!! ;D ;D
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Rasmussen: Arizona Governor approval rating up 16%
Sweet! I sent her a note via website supporting the state's decision. I hope Texas makes the right decision to pass something similar when the legislature gets back together next year.
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Back together next year???
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Typical mexican. Like Eric said, brings an axe to a gunfight. With that kind of mentality we know why their country is a place to run from. Such collective intelligence, these people. Makes me wonder why my "spell check" goes red when I don't capitalize mexican. Bill T.
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http://www.infowars.com/pro-illegal-demonstrator-says-illegals-will-kill-americans-with-pickaxes/
This is going to get bloody before it ends. Very bloody. Bill T.
I say they are trying to bully and scare people. I doubt there will be much of a movement to do that. If more than a few blockbuster murderous crimes do happen the illegals will galvanize public opinion against themselves.
It's more likely to the rhetoric is to cause the main stream media to piss down both legs and to come to their aide.
I'm more concerned about breaking down on the highway and being off'd by illegals wanting what I have and thinking they have opportunity. Anyone traveling along interstate or state highway corridors where illegals frequently travel need to be aware of the dangers of breaking down in lonely places.....does anyone have stats on roadside crime in travel corridors used by illegals and what percentage of roadside crimes are committed by illegals? Not such a problem in a state at the end of the road, like say Florida, but a much bigger deal in border states and states adjacent to border states like Louisiana that the illegals travel through.
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AZ critics say this will make a "POLICE STATE", while Mayor Daley of Chicago wants the Nat. Guard to "POLICE THE CITY"
WTF?!?!?!
They better hope the VIOLENT LEFT, and opposition, does not START a violent movement.
Lawful gun owners won't start it, but they damn sure will defend themselves. Pick axes or anything else used by violent people will be met with citizens defending their rights, state, and country. The Fed Gov't has failed again on this issue, and AZ had the testicular fortitude to deal with it.
There are more states wanting this kind of legislation, and the support is growing by the day....
BTW, what are the Mexican Immigration Laws like????
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I say they are trying to bully and scare people.
I hope you're right. But you have to figure anyone stupid enough to throw a bottle at an armed cop, would in fact be enough of an idiot to do worse against a civilian. They see us as weak by the way our Federal government constantly panders to them. The muslim world sees us much the same. These people are much like animals in that regard. Weakness is something they can easily prey on. Bill T.
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As I drive from zone to zone I keep needing to find new radio stations, and I'm not smart enough to just turn the thing off. I have found that by hitting MPR (Minnesota Public Radio) that I can keep getting the same show on many stations state wide. I have been surprised that while they aren't balanced, they do at least give time to both sides. On this issue both sides in Minnesota, according to what I hear on MPR, agree that this is just an issue of enforcing the law.
The key here is that if they are legal they have nothing to worry about, if they are illegal they are going to be getting a one way ticket home.
The area where the bleeding hearts get going is in the areas that aren't a part of this law "we should give them driver's licenses and id cards even if they are illegal." Can you believe that they are actually promoting an id card for aliens that is labeled as either legal or illegal (I'm sure they won't use those actual words but just the same >:().
Tell Mexico where they can stick their protests! This is the United States of America and they can bite me if they can get to me!
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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I hope you're right. But you have to figure anyone stupid enough to throw a bottle at an armed cop, would in fact be enough of an idiot to do worse against a civilian. They see us as weak by the way our Federal government constantly panders to them. The muslim world sees us much the same. These people are much like animals in that regard. Weakness is something they can easily prey on. Bill T.
Pretty much says it about the whole world history.
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Pretty much says it about the whole world history.
Well said. We in the West are the ones who have forgotten that pearl of wisdom. Our ancestors didn't succeed by being the nicest guys on the block. Why should we expect others to be any different? I'm not saying we go back to an 18th century FP, just be aware, that its not off the table either. Lets not civilize ourselves to the point of impotence. International law is a good thing. Just don't forget that it is made by force of arms and the willingness to use them.
FQ13
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The thing that really irritates me about this is how the liberal left is pandering to them, along with their unlawful desires. And I don't mean just the politicians. They have an ulterior motive, VOTES. That, while I certainly don't agree with, I can at least understand it. But you have many citizens with this weak, "do gooder attitude", that is going to get people killed. It already has. When I start hearing this bleeding heart nonsense about how, "All they want is to work and feed their families", it makes me wonder just how long this nation has left!
The illegal invaders will not approve, go along with, or obey any law. They fully want and expect to be able to walk over here with zero resistance, and do what they want regardless of any law that states they have to do otherwise. They will protest anything and everything that inconveniences them in the least. They feel the immigration laws are meant for everyone except mexicans. That we can live with by simply ignoring their constant bitching on the subject, and start arresting them. Sooner or later, after enough of their goomba's get locked up they'll get the picture.
The problem are the liberal democratic citizens that feel the same way! For God's sake we've got a Congressman in Tucson who is calling for a boycott of his own state! This is insanity. These fools want total and unrestricted amnesty for every one of these illegal invaders, as well as each and every member of their families. This will in fact collapse this nation, and turn it into what mexico is now. An impoverished, corrupt, filthy, disease ridden stink hole. The fact is the mexicans have never risen up and fought for anything. It took over 6,000 of the best Santa Anna had to beat 186 Texans at the Alamo, and they haven't improved much since. That we can handle. What we can't handle is having our citizens trying to stop us from letting them destroy our own country. Now THAT is "misguided"! Bill T.
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Bill, I think you are 100% on this one. What we actually have occuring is an invasion and re-taking of US territory by a foreign government. Mexico wants a portion of Texas, all of Arizona, most of New Mexico, and all of California. And, we have people in our own government who seem to want to facilitate that action. It defies common sense. What we need to do is declare No Mas and start shooting the invaders as they come across. I know that's not very PC, but we are being invaded and will be conquered if something is not done to seal the border. The effing Dummycraps want the voters and are willling to sell the nation to get them. Arizona is taking a stand against this, but it looks like the Feds are going to try and reverse that stand. As you've seen me write on other threads, "I weep for my nation." Now, it seems we are slowly losing the very nation I weep for.
Crusader
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These fools should all look in the mirror. Bill T.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100428/wl_csm/297614
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The fact is the mexicans have never risen up and fought for anything. It took over 6,000 of the best Santa Anna had to beat 186 Texans at the Alamo, and they haven't improved much since. That we can handle. What we can't handle is having our citizens trying to stop us from letting them destroy our own country. Now THAT is "misguided"! Bill T.
Now now Bill, they did beat the French. Hapy Cinco de Mayo to you. ;D ;D ;D
FQ13
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Now now Bill, they did beat the French. Hapy Cinco de Mayo to you. ;D ;D ;D
FQ13
Everybody beats the French ;D
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Even Abd El Krim kicked Frances butt .
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They banned the nightly fireworks at Disneyland outside Paris...
On the first night, a French Army Garrison close to Disneyland heard the fireworks and surrendered to a group of Czech tourists.
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Here's an article fom Phoenix on illegals take on the law. It seems to be working alredy. New Mexico and Tx. better follow suit quickly though...... ;D
FQ13
Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Ariz. law
Email this Story
Apr 28, 8:44 PM (ET)
By AMANDA LEE MYERS
(AP) Day Laborers stand along Arizona Ave Wednesday, April 28, 2010 in Chandler, Ariz. Arizona's...
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PHOENIX (AP) - Many of the cars that once stopped in the Home Depot parking lot to pick up day laborers to hang drywall or do landscaping now just drive on by.
Arizona's sweeping immigration bill allows police to arrest illegal immigrant day laborers seeking work on the street or anyone trying to hire them. It won't take effect until summer but it is already having an effect on the state's underground economy.
"Nobody wants to pick us up," Julio Loyola Diaz says in Spanish as he and dozens of other men wait under the shade of palo verde trees and lean against a low brick wall outside the east Phoenix home improvement store.
Many day laborers like Diaz say they will leave Arizona because of the law, which also makes it a state crime to be in the U.S. illegally and directs police to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegal immigrants.
(AP) Jose Armenta, center, a 33-year-old illegal immigrant from Los Mochis, Sinaloa, Mexico, finds shade...
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Supporters of the law hope it creates jobs for thousands of Americans.
"We want to drive day labor away," says Republican Rep. John Kavanagh, one of the law's sponsors.
An estimated 100,000 illegal immigrants have left Arizona in the past two years as it cracked down on illegal immigration and its economy was especially hard hit by the Great Recession. A Department of Homeland Security report on illegal immigrants estimates Arizona's illegal immigrant population peaked in 2008 at 560,000, and a year later dipped to 460,000.
The law's supporters hope the departure of illegal immigrants will help dismantle part of the underground economy here and create jobs for thousands of legal residents in a state with a 9.6 percent unemployment rate.
Kavanagh says day labor is generally off the books, and that deprives the state of much-needed tax dollars. "We'll never eliminate it, just like laws against street prostitution," he says. "But we can greatly reduce the prevalence."
Day laborers do jobs including construction, landscaping and household work for cash paid under the table. Those jobs have been harder to find since the housing industry collapsed here several years ago.
Standing near potted trees and bushes for sale at a Home Depot in east Phoenix, Diaz, 35, says he may follow three families in his neighborhood who moved to New Mexico because of the law. He says a friend is finding plenty of work in Dallas.
Diaz says he has too much to lose by staying - he's supporting a wife and infant son back home in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, across the border from El Paso, Texas.
"They depend on me to survive," he says. "I'm not going to wait for police to come and arrest me."
Jose Armenta, a 33-year-old illegal immigrant from Mexico's western coast, is already planning to move to Utah within the next 20 days because of a combination of the economy and the new law.
"A lot of people drive by," he says as he watched nearby cars speeding past, "and they yell, 'Hey, go back to Mexico!'"
Analysts say it's too soon to tell what lasting effects the law will have on the state's underground work force, which also includes baby sitters, maids and cooks.
A study of immigrants in Arizona published in 2008 found that non-citizens, mostly in the country illegally, held an estimated 280,000 full-time jobs. The study by researcher Judith Gans at the University of Arizona examined 2004 data, finding that they contributed about 8 percent of the state's economic output, or $29 billion.
Losing hundreds of thousands of unskilled laborers wouldn't hurt the state's economy in the short term, but it could limit the economy's ability to grow once it recovers, says Marshall Vest, director of the Economic and Business Research Center at the University of Arizona's Eller College of Management.
Legal workers who are willing to take any available job now will become more choosy if the unemployment rate falls back to low levels seen before the recession hit.
"That's really the question, as to whether the existing population is willing to work those (low-level) jobs," Vest says. "I think economics provides the answer. If job openings have no applicants, then businesses need to address that by raising the offered wage."
Some illegal immigrants, however, intended to stick around.
Natalia Garcia, 35, from Mexico City, says she and her husband - a day laborer - will stay so their daughters - both born in the U.S. - can get a good education and learn English. The couple have been living in Arizona illegally for the last 10 years.
"Mexico doesn't have a lot of opportunities," she says. "Here, we work honestly, and we have a better life."
Olga Sanchez, 32, from southern Mexico, lives in Phoenix illegally with her two brothers, who are 21 and 17. While the youngest boy is in high school, all three work and send money back home to their parents.
"This law is very bad for us," says Sanchez, who gets about $250 a week cleaning three houses. "I'm afraid of what's going to happen."
She says the family is going to wait and see if the law takes effect and what the fallout will be before deciding whether to leave. The law is certain to be challenged in court; Phoenix, Tucson and Flagstaff already are considering lawsuits.
"All I ask from God is a miracle for us to stay here and work," she says.
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Associated Press writer Bob Christie contributed to this report.
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Arizona really doesn't have to prosecute, and therefore risk litigation by, anyone under this law, it's kinda like being the first one in your neighbourhood to put up the "Alarm By..." or "Beware of the Dog" signs at the beginning of an increase in crime. Well done Arizona!
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Well, that is effective.
The story bought another point to mind. Seems that it might be good to change existing law to state that you are a citizen of the US if born here to a mother who is here legally. Thoughts?
Also, I have no idea what it takes for someone to enter the US legally. In particularly Mexicans who wish to come here to work as day laborers or otherwise? Anyone know?
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They can scream all the want. The fact is no one is going to hire them anymore, and there is no other reason they are here. That leaves two choices. Stay, bitch and starve. Or else hoof it back to sunny Meh-He-Co. They'll choose the latter, taking the pick axes they swore to kill us with. Bill T.
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Well, that is effective.
The story bought another point to mind. Seems that it might be good to change existing law to state that you are a citizen of the US if born here to a mother who is here legally. Thoughts?
Also, I have no idea what it takes for someone to enter the US legally. In particularly Mexicans who wish to come here to work as day laborers or otherwise? Anyone know?
In answer to the question of birthright citizenship, its in the 14th ammendment. Good luck changing that.
As to the second point, day laborers, thats one of the more controversial, but maybe neccessary parts of "Comprehensive Reform". Specifically the subject of guest worker provisions. Now we have the H1-B visa, but an employer, not an empoyee has to ask for it. Its used for everything from cane cutters to software designers. I think its being abused to drive wages down and it probably will be under a guest worker program. Agriculture is the only area where I'm sympathetic.
FQ13
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I don't know the law but was listening to my angry, right wing, conservative, radio station here in the Boston area (yes, there IS one) the other afternoon and an attorney called the station. He basically said that no matter what the law in AZ has done, it's been federal law since the 40's that LEGAL Naturalized citizens in the United States are required to carry identification to prove it.
So the screaming from the left is moot, just screaming!
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I picked this up off the WEB. Amnesty International is dinging Mexico over abuse of central Americans in sunny Mexico. My favorite bit?
One of the main issues, Amnesty says, is that migrants fear they will be deported if they complain to Mexican authorities about abuses.
At present, Article 67 of Mexico's Population Law says, "Authorities, whether federal, state or municipal ... are required to demand that foreigners prove their legal presence in the country, before attending to any issues."
Gee, this sounds a lot like the Az. law. What kind of cojones does it take to condemn a law that mirrors your own? I hope the Az. governor gets in front of every TV camera that will stand still long enough and shouts this from the rooftops!
In other news, Bloomberg calls the Az. bill, "National Suicide" as we will lose our edge without these folks. Sorry, once again your honor, you're ass backwards. Not controlling our borders? Thats national sicide.
FQ13
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In answer to the question of birthright citizenship, its in the 14th ammendment. Good luck changing that.
As to the second point, day laborers, thats one of the more controversial, but maybe neccessary parts of "Comprehensive Reform". Specifically the subject of guest worker provisions. Now we have the H1-B visa, but an employer, not an empoyee has to ask for it. Its used for everything from cane cutters to software designers. I think its being abused to drive wages down and it probably will be under a guest worker program. Agriculture is the only area where I'm sympathetic.
FQ13
The 14th amendment was for freed slaves and their offspring. A LIBERAL SCOTUS 'interpreted' it to mean anyone born here. We need a Fed law that states either your mother or father must be a natural citizen for the child to be a citizen.
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The 14th amendment was for freed slaves and their offspring. A LIBERAL SCOTUS 'interpreted' it to mean anyone born here. We need a Fed law that states either your mother or father must be a natural citizen for the child to be a citizen.
I'd hardly call the mid 19th Century Court liberal. Anyway this just goes to point out how stupid the doctrine of "original intent" is. Do we know what the intent was? Or just what words were used to sell it? Whose intent? The authors, the Congress that voted on it or the various state legislatures that passed it? Its a fool's game. What we have are words on a page. In this case (just like "Congress Shall Make No Law, or "Shall Not Be Infringed) the words "All Persons Born or Naturalized", leave zero wiggle room. A new ammendment would be necessary. I for one, won't be supporting one either. As anti-illegal as I am, the 14th, just like the Bill of Rights, doesn't bear messing with. Without it, none of the Bill of rights would be incorporated.
FQ13
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Children of immigrants
In the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), the Supreme Court ruled that a person who
* is born in the United States
* of parents who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of a foreign power
* whose parents have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States
* whose parents are there carrying on business and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity of the foreign power to which they are subject
becomes, at the time of his birth, a citizen of the United States by virtue of the first clause of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. Although any language in Wong Kim Ark that suggests the Court's opinion and rationale could be expanded to include the children of illegal immigrants would be mere dicta as Wong's parents were in the country legally.[28] Children born to foreign diplomats or, hypothetically, to hostile enemy forces or born on U.S. territory while it is under the control of a foreign power, are not considered subject to U.S. jurisdiction and therefore are not citizens at birth.[29] The distinction between "legal" and "illegal" immigrants was not clear at the time of the decision of Wong Kim Ark.[30]
The Supreme Court has never explicitly ruled on whether children born in the United States to illegal immigrant parents are entitled to birthright citizenship via the 14th Amendment,[31] although it has generally been assumed that they are.[28] When accorded automatic birthright citizenship based on birth on American soil, a newborn's status is generally unaffected by the legal status or citizenship of that individual's mother or father.
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So, parents being here legally to be considered a citizen if born here is not at all out of the question with current law
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So, parents being here legally to be considered a citizen if born here is not at all out of the question with current law
It is, and has been for 132 years of very settled law. There were two, now one exceptions to this. Indians weren't considered citizens. The Court ruled in Black Elk that Indians were members of "Dependent Domestic Nations" and therefore not subject to US soveriegnty. A load of crap, but the law. The second exception, still valid is if the mother has diplomatic immunity and is traveling under a current grant of extraterritoriality (or words to that effect). The idea is if the French ammbadors wife gives birth, the spawn isn't an American since she was, for legal purposes never on US soil. However, if her Au'pair, traveling without a diplomatic passport, got knocked up by the French Ammbassador and gave birth here, her kid would be a US citizen as she was subject to US law. This is the key difference. An illegal is still subject to our laws. Therefore, they qualify for birth citizenship under the 14th.
FQ13
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It is, andhas been for 132 years of very settled law. There were two, now one exceptions to this. Indians weren't considered citizens. The Court ruled in Black Elk that Indians were members of "Dependent Domestic Nations" and therefore not subject to US soveriegnty. A load of crap, but the law. The second exception, still valid is if the mother hs diplomatic immunity ans traveling under a current grant of extraterritoriality (or words to that effect). The idea is if the French ammbadors wife gives birth, the spawn isn't an American since she was, for legal purposes never on US soil. However, if her Aupair, traveling without a diplomatic passport, got knocked up by the French ammbassador and gave birth here, her kid would be a US citizen as she was subject to US law. This is the key difference. An illegal is still subject to our laws. Therefore, they qualify for birth citizenship under the 14th.
FQ13
Now that is ironic.
The current stink the illegals are throwing is because AZ wants to enforce US Immigration laws that apply to them.
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As I understand it, illegal immigrants are not granted rights by the Constitution, period!
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As I understand it, illegal immigrants are not granted rights by the Constitution, period!
Our Constitution does not grant rights, only protects those endowed to us by our Creator.
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As I understand it, illegal immigrants are not granted rights by the Constitution, period!
Everyone on US soil gets those rights. Its why we keep Al Queda in Gitmo, not Fort Leavenworth.
FQ13
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there are three legal ways in which a person can become a full-fledged American citizen: naturalization, jus soli (right of birthplace), and jus sanguinis (right of blood).
That's it,....NO gray area.....
Ranchers aren't obligated to provide water to ILLEGALS that cross his/her land either.
Everyone on US soil gets those rights. Its why we keep Al Queda in Gitmo, not Fort Leavenworth.
FQ13
Wrong. Somehow the wetfoot/dryfoot only applies to Cubans, NOT anyone else FQ. The rest get, or should get DEPORTED.
Gitmo is for "enemy combatants" not illegals.
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U.S. Citizenship by Birth or Through Parents
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U.S. citizenship can be obtained in one of four ways:
birth in the United States or its territories
birth to U.S. citizen parents (called "acquisition" of citizenship)
naturalization (obtaining citizenship after an application and exam), or
naturalization of one's parents (called "derivation" of citizenship).
Some people are already U.S. citizens and don't know it. Most of these people fall into one of three groups:
People born in the United States who have lived most of their lives in other countries. If you fall into this category, you may mistakenly believe that your long absence from the country, plus voting or military activities elsewhere, have stripped you of U.S. citizenship. This is not the case.
People who have U.S. citizens in their direct line of ancestry. If your parents or grandparents were U.S. citizens, you may not realize that U.S. citizenship has been passed down the line, even if you were born elsewhere and your parents or grandparents haven't lived in the United States for a long time.
Children of naturalized U.S. citizens. When parents become naturalized U.S. citizens, their minor children with green cards gain U.S. citizenship automatically. (Children under the age of 18 cannot normally apply to become naturalized U.S. citizens.)
You will, however, need to do some research to establish your rights. Here, we'll explore each of the above three possibilities in turn.
Birth in the United States
A child born on American soil automatically gets U.S. citizenship, unless the child is born to a foreign government official who is in the United States as a recognized diplomat. Children born in certain U.S. territories -- Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and Guam -- may also acquire U.S. citizenship. For details, see Title 8 of the U.S. Code, available at www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08.
Anyone born with U.S. citizenship retains it for life unless he or she deliberately gives it up -- for example, by filing an oath of renunciation.
Birth to U.S. Citizen Parents ("Acquisition")
In many circumstances, even though a child is born outside the United States, if at least one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the child's birth, the child automatically "acquires" citizenship. When this child marries and has children, those children may also acquire U.S. citizenship at birth.
The laws governing whether or not a child born outside of the United States acquires U.S. citizenship from parents have changed several times. You'll need to look at the law that was in effect on the date of the child's birth (and the parents' birth, if grandparents were U.S. citizens) for guidance. These laws differ for the following time periods:
prior to May 24, 1934
May 25, 1934 to January 12, 1941
January 13, 1941 to December 23, 1952
December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986, and
November 14, 1986 to present.
To read about the law that was in effect at the time of your birth, see U.S. Immigration Made Easy, by Ilona Bray (Nolo).
Naturalization of Parents ("Derivation")
When a parent naturalizes, his or her children may "derive" U.S. citizenship automatically, provided they have green cards and are under age 18 and living with the parent at the time. Becoming a U.S. citizen in this way has a special benefit: A child who gets U.S. citizenship through the naturalization of either or both parents does not have to participate in a naturalization ceremony.
The laws on the automatic naturalization of children have varied over the years. Whether or not you are a U.S. citizen is determined by the laws that existed when your parent's naturalization took place. These laws differ for the following time periods:
parents who naturalized before May 24, 1934
parents who naturalized between May 24, 1934 and January 12, 1941
parents who naturalized between January 13, 1941 and December 23, 1952
parents who naturalized between December 24, 1952 and October 4, 1978
parents who naturalized between October 5, 1978 and February 26, 2001, and
parents who naturalized between February 27, 2001 and the present.
To read about what law was in effect at the time of your parents' naturalization, see U.S. Immigration Made Easy, by Ilona Bray (Nolo).
Proving Your U.S. Citizenship
If you have a claim to U.S. citizenship based on one of the laws discussed in this article, you should acquire a passport or other document to prove it.
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We have a town here called Milford, a small city really, population of about 25K... A few years ago, the mayor of Milford put out an edict to the PD that basically gave them license to harrass the local illegal population, arrest them for even the most minor violations and proceed to process them for deportation. I believe that the nanny state got the practice stopped but not before he rid the city of most of the lazy illegals hanging around causing problems.
They were granted NO DUE PROCESS! Prove you're a citizen or get deported.....I still believe that non-citizens are not covered under the constitution.
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We have a town here called Milford, a small city really, population of about 25K... A few years ago, the mayor of Milford put out an edict to the PD that basically gave them license to harrass the local illegal population, arrest them for even the most minor violations and proceed to process them for deportation. I believe that the nanny state got the practice stopped but not before he rid the city of most of the lazy illegals hanging around causing problems.
They were granted NO DUE PROCESS! Prove you're a citizen or get deported.....I still believe that non-citizens are not covered under the constitution.
I would love to confirm the accuracy of this statement, but it just ain't so. We extend constitutional rights to anyone on our soil. It's not right. But that's the way it is. We SHOULD deport the bastards. But we don't. It's time to return America to Ameicans. AZ may be leading the way. Thank God for Joe Arpaio and the AZ legislature.
Crusader
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Everyone on US soil gets those rights. Its why we keep Al Queda in Gitmo, not Fort Leavenworth.
FQ13
Another area where a liberal screwed us!
It used to be that when you broke the law, like being an illegal alien, your Rights were severely restricted.
Wonder why I have such a hard time walking ... used to be no ky, now it is ky, but they are adding broken glass >:(
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I would love to confirm the accuracy of this statement, but it just ain't so. We extend constitutional rights to anyone on our soil. It's not right. But that's the way it is. We SHOULD deport the bastards. But we don't. It's time to return America to Ameicans. AZ may be leading the way. Thank God for Joe Arpaio and the AZ legislature.
Crusader
The story about Milford is true, I had friends in the area at the time.
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This says it all.
FQ13
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Update: AZ amends law to make conditions for investigating the residency status less ambiguous and more reflective of the intent of the legislature:
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/30/az-legislature-fixes-new-immigration-law/
So now, in response to those critics, lawmakers have removed “lawful contact” from the bill and replaced it with “lawful stop, detention or arrest.” In an explanatory note, lawmakers added that the change “stipulates that a lawful stop, detention or arrest must be in the enforcement of any other law or ordinance of a county, city or town or this state.”
Update: SC introduces immigration bill similar to AZ's
http://www.foxcarolina.com/news/23314886/detail.html
GREENVILLE, S.C. -- One Upstate lawmaker has proposed a bill similar to the controversial immigration law recently passed in Arizona.
If passed, the law proposed by state Rep. Eric Bedingfield, a Republican from Mauldin, would give police the right to pull someone over if they have probable cause and ask the person for identification that proves they are legal U.S. citizens.
La Nueva's radio DJ, Juan Jose, has been fielding calls from the Hispanic community since the law making it a crime to be in the U.S. illegally passed in Arizona. Now, he said he is worried a similar law could become a reality in South Carolina.
But some, like John Gaines, said they would support the change.
"We tell these people, 'Look, you don't belong here in South Carolina, we want you out. You're not American citizens,'" said Gaines, who is part of South Carolina's Minutemen group. "Come in the right way, and we'll welcome you. But if you don't come in the right way, stay at home."
Bedingfield said the bill was an effort to "reduce the overall cost of government spending, reduce drug- and street-level crime, and an effort to put South Carolinians back to work."
Bedingfield said he welcomes all immigrants who are in the country legally.
The bill is still in committee at this point and needs to move through both the House and Senate for a vote.
Bedingfield said that he requested that the bill be placed on the House's calendar on Thursday, but that request was denied.
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/members/bios/0140340893.html
Bedinfield Committee Assignments:
Labor, Commerce and Industry
8)
Ranger Up:
EricBedingfield@schouse.gov
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I tried to send the following but it wouldn't let me..
Though I'm not one of your constituents, I fully support your efforts to make legal entry into this country mandatory. Far too many years have lapsed since American's stood together to fight for what is right, just and neccessary to protect the proud Nation we once were and can be again!
Timothy
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A lot of those politicians websites only accept emails from with in their district.
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(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/marshalette/cartoons/100427AZprofiling.jpg)
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Try this address for Bedingfield:
EricBedingfield@schouse.gov
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I thought SC had lost some of its Ft. Sumter fortitude......
Good, Most polls show 60+ percent favor AZ's law.....
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I heard it several times again today "Protests this weekend in Phoenix, and organizers are hoping for huge crowds to show support for the elimination of the law that will allow Arizona Law Enforcement to arrest illegal immigrants."
Can you people even hear yourselves when you say the phrase "Illegal Immigrants?" Do you understand what the word ILLEGAL means?
If we are going to make illegal ok, I think I'll go and illegally withdraw money from the bank and file an illegal tax return!
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A tidbit from one of my senator's newsletter today:
S. Chambliss (R-GA)
Immigration
State legislatures cannot be expected to ignore the escalating problem of illegal immigration when the federal government has failed to protect border states by enforcing current immigration laws.
I believe it is imperative that we first secure our borders and enforce our existing immigration laws before Congress attempts to address comprehensive immigration reform. I will not support any proposal that provides amnesty or a path to citizenship for those that are currently here illegally.
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...............
If we are going to make illegal ok, I think I'll go and illegally withdraw money from the bank and file an illegal tax return!
..............
Only if you really want the FBI visiting you. It's their primary business, making certain working people pay their taxes.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100501/ap_on_re_us/us_arizona_deputy_shot
PHOENIX – A sheriff's deputy was shot and wounded Friday after encountering a group of suspected illegal immigrants who apparently had been hauling bales of marijuana along a major smuggling corridor in the Arizona desert — a violent episode that comes amid a heated national debate over immigration.
State and federal law enforcement agencies deployed helicopters and scores of officers in pursuit of the suspects after the deputy was shot with an AK-47 on Friday afternoon. The officer had a chunk of skin torn from just above his left kidney, but the wound was not serious and he was doing fine.
The shooting was likely to add fuel to an already fiery national debate sparked last week by the signing of an Arizona law aimed at cracking down on illegal immigration in the state.
The deputy was found in the desert Friday afternoon — after a frantic hourlong search — suffering from a gunshot wound from an AK-47, Pinal County sheriff's Lt. Tamatha Villar said. He was flown by helicopter to a hospital in Casa Grande, about 40 miles south of Phoenix.
Villar said the deputy had been performing smuggling interdiction work before finding the bales of marijuana and encountering the five suspected illegal immigrants, two armed with rifles.
"He was out on his routine daily patrol in the area when he encountered a load of marijuana out in the desert. He obviously confronted the individuals and took fire," Villar told The Associated Press. "I was speaking with him just a bit ago, and he's doing fantastic."
The deputy was alone about five miles from a rest stop along Interstate 8, about halfway between Phoenix and Tucson. The area is a well-known smuggling corridor for drugs and illegal immigrants headed from Mexico to Phoenix and the U.S. interior.
"Over the past 12 months we've seen an increase in the amount of drugs, and an increase in violence that has been going on in this particular corridor," Villar told KPNX.
"We've had increasing concerns in this area about being outmanned and outgunned, and unfortunately this evening, this is coming true," he said.
The shooting came as Arizona grapples with backlash over its enactment of a tough new law targeting illegal immigration. Civil rights activists, concerned the law will lead to racial profiling, have called for a boycott of the state.
The law signed by Gov. Jan Brewer last week is supported by many in the state, which has become a major gateway for drug smuggling and human trafficking from Mexico.
Its passage came amid increasing anger in Arizona about violence, drug smugglers, drop houses and other problems caused by poor border security.
Villar said the search for the suspects involved numerous helicopters from state and federal law enforcement agencies and scores of officers near Interstate 8 and Arizona 84 about 50 miles south of Phoenix.
"The deputy is a search-and-rescue deputy, so its not uncommon for them to work those areas A) looking for drugs and B) looking for people who need assistance out there," Villar said. "Obviously its a high-traffic area for drug- and human-smuggling."
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MSM's version
A profiling AZ Sheriff escalates an undocumented pharmaceutical distribution team into a racist firefight.
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Back to the actual topic , does any body really give a rats butt what a 3rd world sh!thole like Mexico thinks about anything ?
If they do, Why ?
???
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f..k 'em!
;D
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I think they can kiss my Irish arse. Not on the left or the right but in the .........
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I think they can kiss my Irish arse. Not on the left or the right but in the .........
Now there's a job no American would want to do! ;D
FQ13
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Now there's a job no American would want to do! ;D
FQ13
LOL They were right all along ;D ;D
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What would in fact be laughable if it were not so sad, is how political correctness has taken the place of common sense in this entire fiasco. The fact these illegal invaders are complaining about "racism" and "racial profiling" borders on the legal definition of insanity.
For God's sake law enforcement is looking for illegal MEXICANS. Who the hell are they supposed to detain and question, blacks, or blond haired Swede's? Are we supposed to believe illegal mexicans are of some race other than hispanic?
When WW II broke out we were at war with Japan. We detained Japanese, not American Eskimo's. This entire argument has lost touch with reality. It's time to simply ignore it and start enforcing the LAW. Bill T.
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The fools on the hill aren't going to do anything about the illegal alien problem until it gets closer to the presidential election. They are strategically doing this to make them (the Dem's) look like the hero's for illegal alien amnesty/immigration so the millions of latino's & illegals along with anchor babies will vote Dem. :'(
A sad state of affairs when the so called leaders in D.C. are willing to allow millions more come here illegally, who knows from where? They don't, they have no clue who is here now or where the millions of people that overstay their visa's are. Yes - they are the ones playing russian roulette with our Nation's security and our lives and for what? Votes! Makes me sick
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(http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/mlib/616/05/616_1272920970.bmp)
More pics here:
http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/jk2010.html
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(http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/mlib/616/05/616_1272920970.bmp)
More pics here:
http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/jk2010.html
In the slide show is a guy with a Mexican flag masking his face and carrying a sign asking what illegal looks like ... I'd start with dudes trying to hide their identity and move on to those making threats on our police! Immigration is all about diplomacy, and these folks seem to have failed the first steps >:(
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We know why bho isn't behind this law.