The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: dvc4you on April 25, 2010, 05:05:55 PM
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I don't know much about revolvers, I have shot 1911s or glocks in IPSC, but I always liked the looks of the Colt Python.
I went to Colt's website and realized they only sell single action revovers??? ???
Compared to the lineup of models that other companies like S&W, Ruger or Taurus have it seems very odd.
What is wrong with Colt?
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They seem to care about the military side of things these days....at least on their websites. You can find a Colt Python pretty easy if you look around a little.
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http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search.aspx?T=colt%20python
A few on that site, around $800 and up, most around a thousand.
also check gunbroker.com
They have there own marketing and research teams design what sells, and what doesn't. They can't compete with the Taurus, Rossi, S&W, and Ruger, for a cost effective revolver.
Seeing how most Python's are used around $1000, should say something.
Welcome to DRTV.
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I have 2 Pythons. One I shoot and one is a safe queen. It is one of my favorite guns. Six inch barrel of pure colt blued steel! It's like pointing your finger when aiming. Don't knock it if you haven't tried it!!
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I owned the worlds only thousand dollar Glock. Oddly, I got it free. My mom hates guns. She gave me the Ruger Bearcat my dad gave her in the 1970s as long as I promised to keep it out of the house. The prettiest .22 single action ever made, but way too small for my hands. So I hit Austin and find myself living around the block from a pawn shop. Deciding at the ripe old age of 22 that I need a "grown-up" pistol, I take the Ruger in and talk trades. I hit paydirt. It was like winning the lottery. The owner was a certifiable Ruger freak. The gun was like NIB (with box, paper work, original price tag, less than 100 rounds through it etc.) and a commerative edition for the bicenntinal. I swear he had to keep from drooling. I asked what it was worth. He said"Pick a gun and its yours'. I looked at him like he'd grown a second head. There were ARs, overunder's, AKs, 1911s, etc and here I was with a .22 pistol I loved to look at but hated to shoot. He explained that he had one of every commerative pistol ever made by Ruger, but not that one and to him it as like a Hank Aaron Rookie card. Fair enough. Not being concerned about money at the time, just getting a nice pistol, I traded even money for a 4" Python with some holster marks that a Tx. cop had sold when they went to semi's. The gun was like glass. It was the Rolex watch of revolvers. Then came the damn Clinton AWB. They were talking about banning semi-auto pistols as well as EBRs after the Luby's shooting in Killeen. I panicked. Being a starving grad studet surviving on the princely sum of $840 a month, I couldn't afford to buy a semi at the ridiculously inflated prices. So, I went back to the guy with the gun and asked for a Glock. He gave me a new G-17 even money (this was when Pythons were still in production, and semis were at '08 full bore panic level prices, so it was only a slightly lopsided trade). To his great credit, he did say I'd regret it, even if the bill went through (only in Austin do you find an honest pawnbroker) :-\. I should have listened and gone home. In hindsight, as much as I love my Glocks, I woud all but kill to have that pistol back. Sad thing is, there are a whole lot of folks who feel the same way. Screw 1911s (sorry guys). If Colt were to come out with a new Python between $600-$900, folks would be lining up, including a lot our military who want a no BS, always goes bang side arm in the sandbox. Why don't they? :-\
FQ13
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colt still makes pythons, but only thru thier custom shop, but you won't like the price.
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colt still makes pythons, but only thru thier custom shop, but you won't like the price.
Are you trying to say they wouldn't take my Gen1 G-17 in trade? :-[ ;D
FQ13
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Are you trying to say they wouldn't take my Gen1 G-17 in trade? :-[ ;D
FQ13
it might be useful as a door stop.
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it might be useful as a door stop.
Sad, but true. I sold it for $350 and the guy that bought it got a square deal. All those years with never a burp or a hiccup regardless of ammo, unless I limp wristed the the thing, and I must have cleaned it at least twice. ;D It worked as well the day I sold it as the day I bought it. Just decided a G-19 and a G-26 was enough and I really wanted an AR. Still, the idea of it being an even money trade on a Python today? A sad, sad joke. :-\ I guess this where you 1911 guys have a point. I like Glocks a lot (in case you haven't noticed),but they just feel dead in the hand. Unlike that Python. Its the difference between a spinning rod and a fly rod or a nice double and an 870. One feels alive and the other doesn't. I will carry one until and unless something better comes along, but I've never gotten attached to any of them like I do with my shotguns or my Brownng Highpower.
FQ13
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Colt's Patent Firearms and Colt Defense are in a way, 2 different companies. There also is, or was, a Colt Crucible Metals Division. Colt Firearms couldn't make money on a bet. They have had the dubious honor of making some of the worst business decisions involving firearms in modern history. The "Colt 2000" being one of them. They also poured money into a "Smart Gun" that no one wanted, and were left holding the bag financially on that unpolished turd.
What has kept their nuts out of the financial meat grinder has been Colt Defense. Basically every AR-15 / M-16 that Colt makes is manufactured by Colt Defense, a separate division. They are a good product, and fortunately for the civilian market, all the parts in a Colt AR-15 are the same Mil-Spec as the parts that go into all of their government M-16's, save of course the full auto sear along with it's accompanying "happy switch". When Colt makes something good it almost seems like it's by mistake. Even their 1911 models are not used much, if at all by steel and IDPA competitors. Most shoot Springfield's, Wilson's, STI's, and a ton of other aftermarket 1911's.
They did have a market for the Single Action Army with the explosion of Cowboy Action Shooting, along with the giant success of SASS. Then they came out with a grade "B" version of the SAA called the "Colt Cowboy". A somewhat semi-polished turd that never sold very well. They seem to just flounder along, surviving on whatever scraps Colt Defense allows them to have. It's really too bad because at one time they produced some of the finest guns on the market. They just could never seem to keep a good thing going. Bill T.
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I took a quick look at Colt's website and see they have a DAO 1911. I never even heard of it. They could sell more guns if they advertised them.
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I took a quick look at Colt's website and see they have a DAO 1911. I never even heard of it. They could sell more guns if they advertised them.
That's a new offering and one that I drooled a bit over!
Damn, I want a Colt 1911....someday...
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Spot on analysis billt. Even coming from someone like you who owns what,.....173 Colt's of all different flavors.... ;D
Between a Colt, Springfield, Kimber, Para, S&W, and others, the 1911 is coming up on a great anniversary, The Colt SAA is still the original one I would blow some lottery winnings on. ::)
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Spot on analysis billt. Even coming from someone like you who owns what,.....173 Colt's of all different flavors.... ;D
Actually I have but 3. A Colt Gold Cup 1911 Series 70, a Woodsman, and an old model Detective Special, (non shrouded ejector rod). All bought in the early 70's. Colt made some really nice guns then. One I regret not getting was one of the New Frontier .22's with the Magnum cylinder. They came out with a lot of commemorative models in the 70's. Most were really nice. Bill T.
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Perhaps that's why most older Colt's hold their value really well.
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colt still makes pythons, but only thru thier custom shop, but you won't like the price.
Colt's custom shop discontinued these in 2005.
I've seen that prices on my Colt Boa and Colt Anaconda have been going through the roof. They were both purchased brand new for $400 dollars each.
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My 1969 4" Colt Python....unfired. My only safe queen and a true work of art.
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What is wrong with Colt, They don't like civilian gun owners, they are union run, so their products are high, they love contracts, why sell to the huddled masses 1 at a time, when they can sell thousands to the military of the world, except when FN is kicking their butt on bids to those same military.
I don't like Colt DA revolvers, the sleek ones like the Python and Diamond back have 2 weaknesses for self defense, V spring ignition #1, not reliable for hard primers, #2 spindly thin ejectors, if you have a hard to eject case, and you bang the ejector hard to get the empties out, it WILL bend. The less than sleek, Troopers, Anaconda's with coil spring ignition are bricks, they cannot be lightened reliably and have the same thin ejector rod.
As to accuracy, they do have a well earned reputation, due to good barrel manufacturing and their 1 in 14 twist, they shoot well with lead and jacketed bullets, Smith and Wesson uses 1 in 18 twist, and will shoot slightly better with jacketed bullets, both will give accuracy equal to all but the most accurate shooters ability. The Sleek pistols as I call them are beautiful, and I have owned them, still have an ancient Colt Agent .38 spl, because I shoot federal ammo, and it cost me a hundred bucks, it packs well, and has 1 extra shot compared to a J frame, and is about the same size as an SP101. It is my airport gun, if it gets stolen of course I would hate it, but I would only be out a hundred bucks.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/m25operator/100_1395.jpg)
Now series 70 1911's are great pistols, and can be fixed for any problem, as is, good accuracy, and great dependability with ball ammo, every other 1911 manufacturer is making this pistol with good results, only a few are using the firing pin block of the series 80, a completely unnecessary feature IMHO. So the only reason to buy a Colt is because you want one, most of the others will be just as good. If you want a custom 1911, best to start off with the least expensive and build up, although there are some really good ones that have a lot of desirable parts, at a package price that make sense.
Colt AR15's are well made, and not that long ago, were still on top, but with CNC technology, and great CAM/CAD engineers, no more, and Colts do have the sear block, ( a portion of the lower that is not milled out, to take an auto sear. ) and the large pin holes to make it harder to install M16 or M4 parts. This is not a big deal to me, as I don't plan on making a FA rifle.
Something that I did not mention in Colts desirability, is their bluing, Top of the line for sure.
Their SAA's ( the expensive ones ) are still great, and you will pay the price.
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It has been all down hill since his widow gave up control.
Actually it seems like they are returning to Sam's route in perpetual peril.
Remember the Paterson plant ?
To comment on M25's first paragraph, (I've never fired a Colt Revolver )
The desire for military contracts is a hold over from Sam himself.
In fact it is why the Paterson NJ operation failed , with no wars going on the Army wasn't buying any type of guns.
But it was also how Colt became the first to arm a national Naval Service with repeating arms, when the Republic of Texas Navy standardized their arms around Colt revolving pistol, rifle, and shot gun.
I'm writing this from memory so I can't cite any reference but I think the Paterson NJ plant supplied 360 of each before creditors liquidated the company assets.
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I miss my colt cobra, it was stolen in a break in.
By far one of the best shooting "light wieght" snubbys ever made. ~ 13 oz empty, 6 rounds. it was one of the older models so no +P, but standard 38 spl works just fine.
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I miss my colt cobra, it was stolen in a break in.
Tab you bring up a point I want to start a thread about. I don't want to hi-jack this one. Bill T.
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Colt could well be a study for business books...my understanding is that the machinery for the Python line is now at the bottom of that big Chinese damn, sold off as scrap.
mb
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Colt could well be a study for business books...my understanding is that the machinery for the Python line is now at the bottom of that big Chinese damn, sold off as scrap.
mb
Wow!! That may be one of the saddest things I've ever heard. That should knock a little off our IOU to China.
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I never thought MB would make me cry. :'(
What about the Detective Special?
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Colt has been run by mentally defective slack-jawed dip-shits for better than 30 years! I won't own anything made by them after about 1975 (and it would take a damn good price at that). They use to make some of the finest handguns in the world but they pissed that away trying to compete with the lower end makers and destroyed both their reputations and the finest name in firearms selling garbage. Then they decided to take a note from H&K (i.e. "You suck and we hate you") and only sold to the military, but lacked the bribe money to get the military to buy their junk so now they try and pretend that the leavings from their scrap-metal plant has some value because they are now rare.
Sam Colt would shoot these idiots and piss in the entrance wound, screw them!
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Sam Colt would shoot these idiots and piss in the entrance wound, screw them!
Can't disagree with most of that, but I still get a little misty about that Python. Some machines are just machines, but some have soul. If you gave me a thousand dollars and told me to buy a revolver today, it would probably be a Ruger. You won't go wrong. But no Ruger wheel gun I've ever shot, and that's most of them, compared to that Python.
FQ13 who is officially an old fart on this one. Generally, I don't buy the "We don't make them like we used to" line. Here however its true. And more than that its, more a case of "We don't make them like we used to, but we could, and we don't, and I don't understand why". :'(
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Colt's AR 15s and Single Action Army Revolvers are still superb, albeit at a high price point. Their 1911s are not too shabby either.....for example their Gunsite edition. I would certainly carry that gun any day of the week.
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From Warhawk;
"Sam Colt would shoot these idiots and piss in the entrance wound, screw them!"
Don't be so sure, Sam was a shifty SOB, who partly financed his first factory by selling "Snake oil" and administering ether.
The move from Paterson NJ to Hartford was made because he had politically active active relatives in Conn who could help shield him from the legal proceedings of his Creditors and former workers.
One of the primary reasons for the failure of the Paterson venture was Sam's quest for nonexistant Gov contracts at the expense of civilian sales. Had the Mexican war not come along when it did we would be saying "Sam who ?"
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It just seems to me, a complete outsider when it comes to Colt, that S&W did the exact opposite of Colt. Instead of banking on stupid "get rich quick" business models by going almost solely after govt bids S&W capitalized on civilian markets and allowed for the government contracts to come to them. Still seems they are following that model. And the fact that the Colt S&W histories are so closely tied to each other just makes it such a case study in good business decisions. Of course S&W has their share of stupid in their history as well. I could be wrong on that, like I said I'm kind of a newb on the history side of things.
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That "Get Rich Quick" business model served Colt VERY well for the first 75 years of it's life. If it hadn't been for Tsarist Russia buying the S&W No.3 (44 Russian), S&W wouldn't exist today. We wouldn't have the 44 or 357 Magnum. I whole heartily agree about Colt management. If they don't diversify their product line for the civilian market, the only Colt products available for you and me will have "Made in Italy" stamped on them.
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That "Get Rich Quick" business model served Colt VERY well for the first 75 years of it's life. If it hadn't been for Tsarist Russia buying the S&W No.3 (44 Russian), S&W wouldn't exist today. We wouldn't have the 44 or 357 Magnum. I whole heartily agree about Colt management. If they don't diversify their product line for the civilian market, the only Colt products available for you and me will have "Made in Italy" stamped on them.
And be a third the price.