The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on August 01, 2010, 08:12:50 AM
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Now I know why my heart and head hurts so much ...
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/m58/WhatChangeLooksLikeThumb.jpg)
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I weep for my country. :'(
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I have shed more tears for this country than I can count. I'm rapidly moving from grief-stricken to pissed.
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I have shed more tears for this country than I can count. I'm rapidly moving from grief-stricken to pissed.
As each and every one of us should be.
+1000000000000000000000000
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I'm SERIOUSLY thinkin' about finding a deserted island and starting my own country! (but I think I'll need more ammo!) :'(
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Time for the fifth box yet?
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Hey guys watch this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc_-L4fyLUo&feature=fvw
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Ray Stevens seems to have "found his voice"
From mild social satire like The Streak, Ahab the Arab, Gitarzan, and Along Came Jones to several humorous but strongly directed Political Satire songs. He isn't being "cute" any longer and even though the delivery might be tongue in cheek, the message and the directives are not.
The Political Hokie-Pokie "Put the Right ones in; Put the Left ones out"
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I have shed more tears for this country than I can count. I'm rapidly moving from grief-stricken to pissed.
I just skipped straight to pi$$ed a long time ago.
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I used to be POd at the Govt.
Now I'm just disgusted with the dumb azz voters.
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I used to be POd at the Govt.
Now I'm just disgusted with the dumb azz voters.
Yep.....you get what you pay for.....
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Politics at both the State level, and more so at the Federal level remind me more and more of my days in Southern California when my friends parents were all getting divorced. The "adults" would try and woo the children to follow them by spoiling them rotten. Anything and everything and even stuff no one had thought of was given to or done for the kids to win their approval and "love."
Today, our politicians are trying to buy our approval and secure their place on the gravy train and in the history books by buying our "love."
This is headed into a major thread drift, but it is my thread, so ... At what point in history did legislation start listening to polls and putting job security above doing the right thing for the best of the country? At what point did getting reelected become more important than following the Constitution? At what point did my comfort and creature comforts become more important than my grandchildren's future? At what point did the epidemic of poor decisions made in the big stone buildings spill over to telling us to make poor decisions for the sake of the economy (spend, spend, spend ... borrow, borrow, borrow ... mortgage, mortgage, mortgage our way to prosperity)?
Ok ... I'm pissed and I'm ranting.
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m58...At what point? From the very first I would bet that there were those that were in it for the power. I think the questions are at what point did the MAJORITY become this way and "IS TIME TO HAVE A VOTERS TEST (or more stringent eligibility)?"
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Politics at both the State level, and more so at the Federal level remind me more and more of my days in Southern California when my friends parents were all getting divorced. The "adults" would try and woo the children to follow them by spoiling them rotten. Anything and everything and even stuff no one had thought of was given to or done for the kids to win their approval and "love."
Today, our politicians are trying to buy our approval and secure their place on the gravy train and in the history books by buying our "love."
This is headed into a major thread drift, but it is my thread, so ... At what point in history did legislation start listening to polls and putting job security above doing the right thing for the best of the country? At what point did getting reelected become more important than following the Constitution? At what point did my comfort and creature comforts become more important than my grandchildren's future? At what point did the epidemic of poor decisions made in the big stone buildings spill over to telling us to make poor decisions for the sake of the economy (spend, spend, spend ... borrow, borrow, borrow ... mortgage, mortgage, mortgage our way to prosperity)?
Ok ... I'm pissed and I'm ranting.
When did they stop considering that THEY have kids and grandkids too? Don't they realize that all of this crap applies to their own too? Or are they just THAT arrogant and selfish that they don't even consider the consequences to their own families?
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When did they stop considering that THEY have kids and grandkids too? Don't they realize that all of this crap applies to their own too? Or are they just THAT arrogant and selfish that they don't even consider the consequences to their own families?
You forget that you are talking about the "Ruling Class", none of this applies to them or their families. Only us poor dumb citizens....
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I think when the SHTF, I'll just head for Michael's Secret-Hidden-Bunker out west! :D
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I think when the SHTF, I'll just head for Michael's Secret-Hidden-Bunker out west! :D
He gave you the combination too?
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And a key to the beer-cooler!
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While he was running I told anyone that would listen this asswipe is nothing but a snake oil salesman-did theyThey listen? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.I guess my intuition was right on.BUT WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO FOR THE PEOPLE,BY THE PEOPLE??? All the proof you need that he's an idiot is,just look at his cabinet.I rest my case.
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One of the guys at work today comes out with "you guys think I'm such a "Liberal", you know who has impressed me ?
When he said Lindsey Graham I had a sh!t hemorrhage ;D
But after I calmly explained (That mot#$rfuc*^% is such a RINO he ought to have a horn on his nose )
I mentioned that he and people like him are the problem, he knows nothing about politics, and makes no attempt to learn,
He and the rest of the Obama voters deserve every single thing he jams up their butts, they were to stupid or lazy to do any research. He put more effort into finding the right plow truck than into who is going to lead the nation.
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I remember reading the story about a grade school class holing an election for Class President.
One kid promised some reasonable action, nothing outside of what kids could do for their class while the other candidate promised Free Ice Cream.
When questioned by the class about where the ice cream would come from, she didn't know. When asked who would pay for the ice cream, she didn't know. All she knew was that she promised Free Ice Cream if she was elected. She got elected.
Same thing that has gotten us into the mess with voters...all they see is the Free Ice Cream.
Sad thing is, there may be lots of kids who DO get Free Ice Cream with government provided lunch programs.
Try to convince them as adults that the politicians who gave them Free Ice Cream as a kid don't deserve his vote.
As long as the politicians keep them in need of Free Ice Cream and then provide it, they get re-elected.
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Just keep all of this in perspective 89 days from now. Bill T.
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Was talking to the same guy the day before about the upcoming ethics trials, I mentioned what Maxine Waters said about banks only verify income so they can deny Black people loans, he says, "that's probably true" I asked if HE would loan some one thousands or tens of thousands of dollars with out being darn sure they could pay him back
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Was talking to the same guy the day before about the upcoming ethics trials, I mentioned what Maxine Waters said about banks only verify income so they can deny Black people loans, he says, "that's probably true" I asked if HE would loan some one thousands or tens of thousands of dollars with out being darn sure they could pay him back
That's the problem. Sometimes government DOES need to be the lender. Promising, but poor students, first time home buyers who can turn a neighborhood around, or promising tech startups that no one else will fund? Not a problem. Worst case, we'll do a little worse than break even short term, but win long term. Problem? When we stop asking "What can you do for us"?, and just start handing out the ice cream to everybody. Ice cream for honor students, most improved? I'll buy it. Ice cream for everyone? No chance in hell.
FQ13 who thinks even this is pushing it, but lives in the real world.
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FQ has a valid point, the Concorde and F 35 are the direct result of Govt. investment in aviation during the early 1900's.
But he misses my point that no one with any sense would loan money with out some hope of receiving some benefit, in this case a strong aviation industry in the event of a war.
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FQ has a valid point, the Concorde and F 35 are the direct result of Govt. investment in aviation during the early 1900's.
But he misses my point that no one with any sense would loan money with out some hope of receiving some benefit, in this case a strong aviation industry in the event of a war.
The idea behind government low income home loans (which were not the driving force behind the crash, though they didn't help), was to remove urban blight, and improve income levels and cut government dependence. The idea is this. By helping turn a neighborhood of renters into one made up in large part of homeowners, you give people an investment and sense of ownerhip of the place. Studies (and common sense) show that a home owner has a lot less tolerance for quality of life crimes that mess with the value of their property and will fight it, where a renter will just move. Likewise, in a normal market, a house is the average person's store of wealth. It gives them collateral for loans for medical bills, the kid's college etc. Likewise, it is something to be passed on to the next generation. Increasing homeownership serves the purpose of creating an investor society. Not sure how far I buy into the government's programs, but the reasoning has some merit.
FQ13
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No argument with what you just posted, but the programs should be at the local level, since it is not the job of the Feds, nor does the Constitution authorize them to meddle in such affairs.
I'll just refer you to Boone's speech about spending.
It's really long so I won't post it unless some of the newer members missed it in previous threads.
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That's the problem. Sometimes government DOES need to be the lender. Promising, but poor students, first time home buyers who can turn a neighborhood around, or promising tech startups that no one else will fund? Not a problem. Worst case, we'll do a little worse than break even short term, but win long term. Problem? When we stop asking "What can you do for us"?, and just start handing out the ice cream to everybody. Ice cream for honor students, most improved? I'll buy it. Ice cream for everyone? No chance in hell.
FQ13 who thinks even this is pushing it, but lives in the real world.
And the US Constitution grants the power for the US gummint to grant student loans where?
<sound of crickets chirping>
Or even free ice cream? ? ?
<more crickets>
faux "libertarian"!
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No argument with what you just posted, but the programs should be at the local level, since it is not the job of the Feds, nor does the Constitution authorize them to meddle in such affairs.
I'll just refer you to Boone's speech about spending.
It's really long so I won't post it unless some of the newer members missed it in previous threads.
Not only should they be local, most of them should be private or by donation.
I think the local PTA can spot Honor Students deserving Ice Cream better than an agency in DC. They can also canvas the Chamber of Commerce. Alumni Association, and all the local Ice Cream Parlors for donations and get the job done cheaper and with no obligation to the Feds for helping you with your own money.
Every Realtor and Home Construction Co. would be interested in jump starting any neighborhood, particularly in today's housing market. Local businesses have a vested interest in keeping the neighborhood vital. No doubt the locals would do a better job at picking the best candidates for home ownership assistance.
Where will all this local money come from? Think about the extra cash you would have if your Federal tax burden were reduced to one forth, or less, of what is was last April. And I firmly believe that you will produce more benefit for giving 50 cents to local charity than the dollar the government took from you was bringing. And 50% waste is likely an under estimate.
I have faith that folks will help others if they see they will be dong some good, don't think "They" (Government) is responsible for helping their neighbors, and have direct input with every contribution they decide to make or not make on who deserves the help.
The locals will decide who need "welfare", and I bet if you are receiving local charity to help you through, adding another dependent to your household won't mean you get more money next time...most likely it will mean you get none.
Just the fact that you are directly helping folks you can see every day will greatly increase the feeling of "Community" in the area. Folks will be taking "ownership" of their neighborhood, knowing it is in their hands and their responsibility and privilege to help build their community and the Feds have no say or ability to interfere.
If everyone turns greedy and decides to hang on to their money and not help, it will be a very sad thing indeed but it is still not the Governments directive to force folks to chip in at gun point......and taxes are exactly that....guys with guns will ultimately show up to enforce tax laws. How many 870s did the IRS order?
I have more faith in the people of this country than to think greed will take over. I have seen stories of folks driving hundreds of miles to help stack sand bags or haul supplies to stricken communities. The internet and broadcast TV insures the plight of those in need is know far and wide.
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Yep.....you get what you pay for.....
Sadly, WE get what they pay for, too.
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Sadly, WE get what they pay for, too.
Yep. >:(
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The idea behind government low income home loans (which were not the driving force behind the crash, though they didn't help), was to remove urban blight, and improve income levels and cut government dependence. The idea is this. By helping turn a neighborhood of renters into one made up in large part of homeowners, you give people an investment and sense of ownerhip of the place.
FQ13
They were the exact cause of the "crash". They didn't "own" a damn thing because they had no money. The problem with that type of thinking is it parallels the nonsense Bill Clinton spewed with his, "Everyone has a RIGHT to own a home!", nonsense. That is total B.S. You have a "right" to only what you can afford. What happened with the housing market is you took a bunch of basically broke people with low to middle income paying jobs and not much else, and shoved them into a home they in fact overpaid for, because enough of them were doing it to artificially inflate the market. These same people in fact owned nothing. They came into this "investment" with zero down, and as a result had no financial stake in this "investment" what so ever. They knew they would not be able to afford the payments in 5 years. They didn't care because each and every single one of them were stupid enough to think the housing market would never have a downside. And if it did, so what? They couldn't get hurt because they didn't have a single dime of their own money "invested".
This entire debacle was based on the bigger idiot theory. In a normal real estate market you will always have a certain percentage of the people in it who will try to over borrow. Normally they are held in check by the banks and lending institutions who will refuse them the loan simply because they don't have enough income or down payment to support it, should the market take a turn for the worse. In this case the banks and lending institutions became the "bigger idiot's" by lending these nit wits the money because they themselves were sucked into this belief the market was never going to subside. What did these morons think, the price of an average home would be $1,200,000.00 in ten years?
Financial analysts are predicting there will be at least another 1.5 to over 3 MILLION foreclosures in the upcoming year, (2011). This is based on these same idiot's who bought right at the top, 5 years ago. Most all of their mortgages are set to "adjust" next year. This means that 1.) They can stay in the home and make the extremely high "adjusted" payment, (which they cannot afford), or 2.) Sell, (Which they cannot do because they won't be able to pay off half of the note.), or 3.) Which is to refinance, (Which they cannot do because no one is going to write a note for over twice what their house is worth.) Their last option which is no option at all is to walk away, which is exactly what they will all do. This is going to cause at least another 15% deflation in the residential real estate market nationwide. Some predict this could go another 20+% in the tank.
All of this was caused by idiot's who were allowed to borrow too much money which in turn allowed them to be a part of a market they had absolutely zero business being involved with in the first place. This is the same thing which contributed to the Stock Market's demise in 1929. You had another bunch of idiot's in that market who were wildly speculating on stocks with only 5% of the money they were trading with. After the market dropped just 5%, they were wiped out, and had no money left to make their margin calls. The result was total collapse, just the same as you're now seeing with real estate. This is always the result when people make purchases with more paper than they can afford. The end result is cheap real estate with very few buyers with enough money to purchase it. Those who have the money and time will become wealthy. When that happens the idiot's, (read Democrats) will bitch and moan how "unfair the system is". You cannot create wealth with a printing press. This simple concept has yet to be grasped by the democratic party in this country, let alone our communist President. They are simply too stupid to understand simple Capitalism, or else refuse to understand it because they don't like it. Bill T.
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billt is exactly correct!
It was the low income loans and the idea that "everyone should own their own home" that put homes in the hands of people that could not afford to buy them, did not have the knowledge or skills to maintain them, and knew nothing more than $X per month for housing and no other expenses. This camel was so overloaded that it could have broken its back on a good day.
The next thing that happened was that these people with minimal income and skills became "experts in high finance," and they were suckers for the home equity market. Right after jumping into a home that it is questionable if they should have owned in the first place, they were making financial deals that were based on paper gains - gains that disappeared as quickly as they appeared.
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Bill, that's about as spot-on as I've heard it put.
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There were a lot of speculators involved in the crash also.
You didn't have to be "poor" to take advantage of the loan "bargains".
Folks with some cash would purchase 3 or 4 or 5 homes on speculation, thinking they could maintain the payments and sell the houses for the increased equity if the rates got to high.
This cause an "apparent" demand for housing which caused increased prices and over building by contractors.
When it came time to sell, there were no buyers, especially at the inflated prices. Builders who responded to that demand were stuck with houses also.
With a glut of houses for sale, prices plummeted while outstanding loan balance did not.
With raising interest, everyone was holding houses that they could not afford and with very few buyers, and those buyers unable to get loans even at the drastically reduced prices due to the cash crisis of the lenders.
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Just to give you an example of how stupidly these lending institutions were operating during that period. The girl who cuts my hair is in her early 30's, a single mom, and owns the salon she operates out of. She has a lot on the ball, works long hours, saves her money, and is doing alright financially. She already owned a home, and had a fair amount of equity in it.
She, like many during that time, thought she would, "look around at what's out there". The first place she walked into "Pre Approved" her for a $375,000.00 loan! She told me they didn't want to see her books, bank accounts, tax returns, a pay stub, NOTHING. She promptly told them there was no way she could possibly afford a payment on a loan that size. They replied she had nothing to worry about. They told her she "couldn't get hurt" because even with zero down the payment would be "very affordable" the first 5 years, and after that she could simply cash out the equity through sale, or "simply refinance".
She told them her intention was not to put zero down, but rather sell her current home, (the market was so hot at the time houses were selling within hours after being placed on the market), and use that equity toward the new place. The lender advised her against it saying, "Why would you want to tie up your money instead of ours?!" Needless to say she wisely stayed put. This is the degree of financial insanity that these fools were operating on. These are the same idiot's that Barney Frank said were, "doing a fine job" running Freddie and Fannie who insure these type of loans just before the bottom fell out.
We haven't even scratched the surface as to the amount of damage that has been done as a result of all of this moronic financial behaviour. With yet another 3 MILLION mortgages set to tank in the upcoming year, it will be the final Coup De Gras on an economy that is actually far worse than the Great Depression, simply because most of it is still being masked by loans to people without the means to pay it back as the economy worsens, jobs disappear, and it all compounds. All of this is having a ripple effect throughout the bowels of our economy. Most of it will take decades to repair, if in fact it even can be. One thing is for certain. Every day Hussein and the democrats remain in power, is a day wasted as far as any "recovery" is concerned. This President in charge of our economy is worse than an alcoholic in charge of a liquor distributorship. Bill T.
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Another factor that contributed VERY heavily to the problem is that in many, many cases the lenders held absolutely NO responsibility for the loans they made. They would make a loan like you guys describe, then two months later Countrywide or GMAC owns it, then someone else owned it, then it went off into some pool of loan excrement they created. No accountability for that bad loan.
Mortgage companies should maintain at least partial responsibility for every loan they write. Things would change.
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It was not at all uncommon 20 years ago for a bank or loan company to insist on at least a 20% down payment before they would even talk to you about any type of home mortgage. And you better have that 20% without the liability of a ton of other debt like car payments and credit cards. Then the subject of income along with length of time at your job would come up. Then the amount of children you had, and were financially responsible for was discussed. If at any time you stepped over the financial boundaries of what that company set forth, no loan, period.
All of this was circumvented in this entire housing fiasco. This whole mess became so politically correct in trying to place these worthless minorities into homes they had no business in, these questions were not even asked. Many loan companies were under direct government pressure to make loans to financially unstable minorities in accordance with the, "Everyone has a right to own a home as part of the American dream", bantering. They should have kept dreaming instead of lending to these deadbeats. Hussein will no doubt choose to do what he has in the past. Inflate the currency to pay off these toxic debts to try and make all of this go away as quietly as possible, so as to not make the liberal democrats look any more stupid then they are for pushing such a suicidal financial position. With an economy stretched to the limit with worthless wars that are costing us billions of dollars every month we waste on Middle East soil, and a $13+ Trillion dollar debt. The straw that breaks the Camels back just became a 10 ton boulder. Bill T.
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Help me if I am wrong here, but I heard a bit on the news the other day about a memo being leaked. If I understand this right Obama wants to forgive the loans for people who are underwater. Meaning if you owe more than your house is worth, you just get let off the hook. (some fees and conditions may apply) So, again we are rewarding stupidity, and reckless behavior.
Would this be considered a form of class warfare? I mean, if you were stupid, and bought a house that was more than you could afford, and no it's underwater, you get forgiven. Basically a clean slate. Of course if you did it right, and put money down, and have paid on your loan, now paying a mortgage on a house that is still (barely) worth what you paid, you're S.O.L.
I know I would be looking at a few of my neighbors and wondering..... ::) Not to mention fuming.
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Help me if I am wrong here, but I heard a bit on the news the other day about a memo being leaked. If I understand this right Obama wants to forgive the loans for people who are underwater. Meaning if you owe more than your house is worth, you just get let off the hook. (some fees and conditions may apply) So, again we are rewarding stupidity, and reckless behavior.
Would this be considered a form of class warfare? I mean, if you were stupid, and bought a house that was more than you could afford, and no it's underwater, you get forgiven. Basically a clean slate. Of course if you did it right, and put money down, and have paid on your loan, now paying a mortgage on a house that is still (barely) worth what you paid, you're S.O.L.
I know I would be looking at a few of my neighbors and wondering..... ::) Not to mention fuming.
Democrats, the party of the working man.
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Help me if I am wrong here, but I heard a bit on the news the other day about a memo being leaked. If I understand this right Obama wants to forgive the loans for people who are underwater. Meaning if you owe more than your house is worth, you just get let off the hook. (some fees and conditions may apply) So, again we are rewarding stupidity, and reckless behavior.
Would this be considered a form of class warfare? I mean, if you were stupid, and bought a house that was more than you could afford, and no it's underwater, you get forgiven. Basically a clean slate. Of course if you did it right, and put money down, and have paid on your loan, now paying a mortgage on a house that is still (barely) worth what you paid, you're S.O.L.
I know I would be looking at a few of my neighbors and wondering..... ::) Not to mention fuming.
I haven't heard that yet, but it doesn't surprise me in the least. Hussein believes the government should pick up the tab on most everything, reckless borrowing and spending among them. After all he wrote the book on it. Besides, realistically there is no way these people are going to pay back what they lost. If they could do that they would have had money for a reasonable and proper down payment in the first place. None of them had a pot to piss in.
You're going to start hearing a word in the lending community you haven't heard in a while. It is called "Collateral". What do you have of value to back up this large sum of money you wish to borrow? If you have none you'll be shown the door. And believe me they aren't going to give a damn about political correctness when they show whatever minority that door. As always money talks and bull$h!t walks. Especially after these lending institutions lost their shirts lending to these nit wits the first time around. There won't be a next. Bill T.
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Right now the mortgage forgiveness thing is just rumor.... but where there is smoke there is fire.
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I'll give you another example of the crazy business practices that led to this mess. And this is first-hand knowledge as it was experienced by me.
When my wife and I were making plans to get married in 2001, I was told (as he looked me straight in the eye, no kidding) by a loan officer (after doing a quick credit check) that his supervisors gave him the green light to loan us the money even if we were both unemployed.
Yep....I was thinking WTF?
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What irritates me is that we are bailing the lenders out. They should have thought of this before writing these bad loans. Its not just housing either. When I was in grad school (for a liberal arts degree, not med school), I was making $9k a year on a fellowship. Not a week went by that that folks weren't offering charge cards with $3-5k in unsecured debt. The banks got the bankruptcy laws changed to "hold irresponsible borrowers accountable'. What about dumbass greedy lenders who never should have issued those cards if they'd been sober? I do have some sympathy for the homeowners. I have zero for the guys who wrote the note in the first place, hoping they could sell it before the bubble burst and someone else would end up holding the bag.
FQ13
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Remember, a lot of these lenders were pressured by the government to give these loans out to financially unacceptable minorities. This allowed regular white folks to jump on this run away government gravy train. They cannot discriminate on which idiot they are going to loan to, and they certainly did not. Who applied this pressure to these mortgage companies to loan these people money they were always in danger of never paying back? Obviously it was someone in the government. The government is supported by us, the taxpayers.
So as is always the case we will pay one way or the other. Tax dollars that will have to bail out, clean up, wipe off the slate, or however you wish to put it, make this go away instead of using it for what it was originally intended for. The government is getting real good at "deflecting" tax money from it's original intent. The cost could come close to a trillion dollars by the time all of these people tank on all of these millions of home mortgages. I don't even want to talk about commercial property. Many malls around here are less than half occupied. Bill T.
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Remember, a lot of these lenders were pressured by the government to give these loans out to financially unacceptable minorities. This allowed regular white folks to jump on this run away government gravy train. They cannot discriminate on which idiot they are going to loan to, and they certainly did not. Who applied this pressure to these mortgage companies to loan these people money they were always in danger of never paying back? Obviously it was someone in the government. The government is supported by us, the taxpayers.
So as is always the case we will pay one way or the other. Tax dollars that will have to bail out, clean up, wipe off the slate, or however you wish to put it, make this go away instead of using it for what it was originally intended for. The government is getting real good at "deflecting" tax money from it's original intent. The cost could come close to a trillion dollars by the time all of these people tank on all of these millions of home mortgages. I don't even want to talk about commercial property. Many malls around here are less than half occupied. Bill T.
Bill, that's about a 10th of the story. Don't buy this, its all the government's fault. Yes HUD and fannie Mac contributed. But, banks in the 1990s were running over with money and made bad calls because they were underregulated in terms of derivatives. "Mortgage brokers", ie banks weren't regulated as banks in terms of capitalization. "Gurantors" eg insurance companies like AIG were similarly underregulated and didn't require capitalization. Essentially, you could write a worthless loan, have it "guaranteeded" by an undercapitalized insurance company, call it Grade A and sell the paper which made money as long as real estate values went up. The whole thing was a ponzi scheme. Government failed partially by playing along, but mostly by not regulating brokers as banks. We learned this same lesson in the S@L crisis, we just ignored it throught two presidencies. It wasn't, due respect to Rush, minority loans that caused this. It was not regulating Wall Street in the sense that A: Lenders and insurors must have a certain percentage of capital in reserve to cover potential shortfalls. They can't be allowed to have all the balls up in the air at once. and B: Investors must be given full disclosure as to whether an "insured" assest really is insured. Hardly socialism, just transparency.
FQ13
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Don't buy this, its all the government's fault.
FQ13
When borrowed money doesn't get paid back, the blame lies at the feet of only one person, The person who borrowed it. Bill T.
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When borrowed money doesn't get paid back, the blame lies at the feet of only one person, The person who borrowed it. Bill T.
C'mon Bill, this is AMERICA, the land of the formerly free and the home of the abdication of personal responsibility.
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When borrowed money doesn't get paid back, the blame lies at the feet of only one person, The person who borrowed it. Bill T.
Incomplete answer. They do get the blame. But, so does the guy who made the loan knowing it wouldn't be repayed, but didn't care because he planned on selling it to some other schmuck who, was planning on selling it to another schmuck so they wouldn't take the hit. Blame also attaches to the guy who "insured" it, without enough capital to cover even 1/10th of outstanding liability so the huckster could gold plate the turd. Blame also hits the Congress critters who green lighted this shell game despite what we learned in the S@L crisis. You want a simple answer? Big money gamed the system so that the lessons in prudent bank, insurance, accounting and brokerage regulation we learned from the Great Deppression and the S@L crisis weren't applied. Its what happens when people think they'll get rich by trading paper rater than producing something of value. it always winds up being a ponzi scheme. And it always hits those who do produce something of value, but wind up footing the bill. We've been taught this lesson three times in the last hundred years. We're surprised why?
FQ13
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Its what happens when people think they'll get rich by trading paper rater than producing something of value. FQ13
Very true. But just because someone is willing to loan you money you were never offered before, doesn't mean you have to take it. Bill T.
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In general, Yes it does! And we get back into the "stupid public" that voted for the muslim, non-american in the first place.
(remember we ARE talking about the "average american") et al!
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Great post on Waters. Pemex? Gasprov anyone? ::)
FQ13
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Two observations on Waters slip:
1. When she said "socialize" she couldn't come up with another word no matter how long she waited. Most that slip can cover quickly;
2. What the two at the table beside her as she struggles and doesn't recover. It isn't easy to catch, but the facial expressions tell.
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What I find so funny is the fact all of these people who voted for this a$$hat, (Hussein), thought they were "breaking down" all of these "racial barriers" by electing him, have now found they have accomplished just the exact opposite. A Fox News Poll showed over 90+% feel race relations have worsened under Hussein. Another hole it will take decades to dig out of. Somebody needs to take the shovel away from this guy. Bill T.
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What I find so funny is the fact all of these people who voted for this a$$hat, (Hussein), thought they were "breaking down" all of these "racial barriers" by electing him, have now found they have accomplished just the exact opposite. A Fox News Poll showed over 90+% feel race relations have worsened under Hussein. Another hole it will take decades to dig out of. Somebody needs to take the shovel away from this guy. Bill T.
It isn't racism if it is anti-white, anti-Christian, and anti-Jew is boarderline ... Haven't you learned that yet Mr. T >:(