The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: jaybet on August 30, 2010, 04:25:31 PM
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I'm just thinking....just in case a few things were to go my way, I'd like a new handgun but in NJ I need a permit, etc.etc....takes a while. So I'm thinking rifle...an AK or AR would be fun, but I kinda don't want to get into a whole different caliber right now either, so I'm thinking carbine.
So guys, here's your chance to help... I've got 45acp, 357/38, and 9mm to work with (sticking with my handgun calibers). I can't spend much, so who's got a great idea? 357 lever action comes to mind first, but then...9mm? I'm not much on that plastic Beretta thing...fired one and thought it was way overpriced. High Points just look a little too much like plumbing parts to me. So where do I go and what can I get? How about 45 acp carbines?
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Get a Rossi Lever gun. .357
$424 at Buds http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/advanced_cat_search.php?cated=40&manufacturers_id=318&ITATR_list[1]=1626&ITATR_list[2]=258&ITATR_list[3]=&ITATR_list[4]=&ITATR_list[7]=&ITATR_list[8]=&ITATR_list[0]=
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+1 to the 357/38 lever action carbine. Just go watch a cowboy match with top competitors sometime to understand how fast you can shoot one...plus you can reload as you go. Pretty formidable piece of hardware.
In addition, .357 in a rifle gives you plenty of ommph to take up to deer sized game if the you want to hunt with it as well.
Another option is one of the carbine conversion units for a Glock or a 1911...of course you need a pistol to begin with.
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Who put out the "Camp Carbine" a while back? They made them in .45 and 9mm. They took factory mags. The last I heard they were still available in 9mm only. I believe it was Marlin. From everything I have heard they were good to go and accurate. I believe I fired one in .45 but I'm not sure. Probably would get one if in the market. I heard someone was converting one to use Glock mags. Can anyone say 30 rounds of 9mm fun!
FWIW
Richard
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Puma/Rossi have fantastic carbines in calibers you listed. I remember June or July cover of American Rifleman had several options.
Since your in Stalag, New Jersey, I would defer to a Finnish 9mm carbine, from J&G, but I think NJ "frowns" on those "evil" types of rifles... :-\
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.357 lever gun gets my vote and maybe some of my money as well....I've been drooling over them for a year.
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I've got the Camp 9. Nothing special, just a solid blow-back 9mm. Not terribly accurate but quite usable for what it is, a "camp carbine". Take small game, defend the fire side.
Now if you've goin' "cowbow" on us, well then the .357 lever is the way to go.
I'd think about a lever if it was chambered for .357Max, then I could really take deer, plus shoot the other two calibers as well. However, let's be realistic. If you want deer get a 30/30. There aren't many of us left that load Max anyway. It was a brief 1970s-80s caliber. I guess I'm just an anachronism.
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Who put out the "Camp Carbine" a while back? They made them in .45 and 9mm. They took factory mags. The last I heard they were still available in 9mm only. I believe it was Marlin. From everything I have heard they were good to go and accurate. I believe I fired one in .45 but I'm not sure. Probably would get one if in the market. I heard someone was converting one to use Glock mags. Can anyone say 30 rounds of 9mm fun!
FWIW
Richard
Yep, it's a marlin and they use S&W pistol mags, 59 series for the 9's and 45 series for the 45's. Watch gunbroker and you can sometimes find a really good deal on them. I've got both my 9 is in a butler creek folding stock and the .45 is in a take-down stock that I've never seen another of, might be a custom job. These are great SHTF rifles. You could get the 9 and pick up a nice police trade in 5906 and a dozen or so mags and have a great little bug out package.
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A used Ruger PC carbine may be available. They're as handy as a 10/22.
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I've got the Camp 9. Nothing special, just a solid blow-back 9mm. Not terribly accurate but quite usable for what it is, a "camp carbine". Take small game, defend the fire side.
Now if you've goin' "cowbow" on us, well then the .357 lever is the way to go.
I'd think about a lever if it was chambered for .357Max, then I could really take deer, plus shoot the other two calibers as well. However, let's be realistic. If you want deer get a 30/30. There aren't many of us left that load Max anyway. It was a brief 1970s-80s caliber. I guess I'm just an anachronism.
Alf,
Do you think a .357 from a revolver could kill a deer at ten feet? If so then the .357 lever is good to 100 yards (same fpe and velocity!)
Actualy the rifle has more at 100 yards
Revolver Muzzle velocity 1130 fpe 510
Rifle 100 yards velocity 1282 fpe 657
this is for a federal 180 grain JHP
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Well, Haz,
it's the old, you can never bring too much gun. Sure a .357mag will kill a deer. At even longer ranges with a rifle, as you say. But the .357Max will give just that much more edge. It's a mute point, since the Max is a dead caliber.
But man, all they would have to do is drill the chamber just a little bit longer. (assuming of course the rifle were engineered for the pressures.)
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Well, Haz,
it's the old, you can never bring too much gun. Sure a .357mag will kill a deer. At even longer ranges with a rifle, as you say. But the .357Max will give just that much more edge. It's a mute point, since the Max is a dead caliber.
But man, all they would have to do is drill the chamber just a little bit longer. (assuming of course the rifle were engineered for the pressures.)
Alf,
I was just pointing out that a .357 is plenty of gun to hunt deer with and not worry about getting a clean kill.
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A used Ruger PC carbine may be available. They're as handy as a 10/22.
I was thinking the same thing.
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I have a PC9 and I feed it a steady diet of +p ammo without a hicup. An other great feature of the pc9 is that my p89 and p95 mags interchange.
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I'd get a .357 Mag lever gun (And not just because I want one myself... Well, partly...). With .45 ACP carbines there's pretty much only the Beretta Storm, and the HK USC if you can find one. I believe Hi-Point is supposed to come out with one, but it ain't out yet. The Marlin Camp 45, good luck finding one. A .357 Lever gun Will be the easiest to get your hands on. You could get the Kel-Tec SUB 2000 in 9mm if you wanted to go that route. And you can get one that takes Mags for your GLOCK, SIG 226, or Beretta 92. (I'm still holding out for one in .45 that takes G21 mags.) With what you're wanting I'd get the .357 lever gun.
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If you've got a Glock or S@W the Ke-tec sub-2000 might be worth a look. The fold-up feature is nice for a bug out un. They are also pretty cheap, about $400. Whether they are any good or not, I don't know, but the fact it uses Glock mags (reliable, common as dirt, and with the thirty rounder available) is a huge plus.
FQ13
PS that said, for a general utility multi tasker, its hard to beat a .357 carbine (although I do prefer .44 mag if I were starting from scratch). You're not. For SD, the 10 odd rounds in the tube are all you're likely to fire anyway and it will fire pretty fast with practice. It will also work for hunting.
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I'd toss my vote for the .357 lever. I just bought my second Rossi/Braztech lever--this one in .357. The first was in .44 Mag. The .357 is available in several configurations in either blue or stainless. Go online to http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php and register to get the best price. If you just go online to Buds without registering, the price shown will be a few bucks more. They don't charge for shipping, either. The .44 Mag has been a joy to shoot--though it gives a pretty good smack to the shoulder. I haven't yet shot the .357, but the action is smooth right out of the box and I think it's going to be a fun gun to shoot. I'll let you know.
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Here's what you need: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=187964044 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=187964044)
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Here's what you need: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=187964044 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=187964044)
Defined for very large values of need I hope. If you "need" this, odds are you are either half way to dead, employed by Halliburton, or making a real nice living in the rereational pharmecutical industry as a "collections agent". ;D I don't know whether to laugh or drool. Actually, I do, I'll settle on drooling and curse my sherriff who won't issue type IIIs in my county. >:(
FQ13
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Defined for very large values of need I hope. If you "need" this, odds are you are either half way to dead, employed by Halliburton, or making a real nice living in the rereational pharmecutical industry as a "collections agent". ;D I don't know whether to laugh or drool. Actually, I do, I'll settle on drooling and curse my sherriff who won't issue type IIIs in my county. >:(
FQ13
That's illegal, FQ. The state occupies the whole field of firearm regulations here in FL.
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That's illegal, FQ. The state occupies the whole field of firearm regulations here in FL.
So's requiring a 5 day wait for long guns, but he does it anyway. No one has bothered to take him to court over it yet.
FQ13 >:(
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So's requiring a 5 day wait for long guns, but he does it anyway. No one has bothered to take him to court over it yet.
FQ13 >:(
What are you waiting for?
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So's requiring a 5 day wait for long guns, but he does it anyway. No one has bothered to take him to court over it yet.
FQ13 >:(
Actually it's a State Statute that gives individual counties (unfortunately) the option is in the State Constitution and not in statutes... making it more difficult to remove.
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?Mode=Constitution&Submenu=3&Tab=statutes&CFID=225844301&CFTOKEN=23927256
SECTION 5. Local option.––
(a) Local option on the legality or prohibition of the sale of intoxicating liquors, wines or beers shall be preserved to each county. The status of a county with respect thereto shall be changed only by vote of the electors in a special election called upon the petition of twenty-five per cent of the electors of the county, and not sooner than two years after an earlier election on the same question. Where legal, the sale of intoxicating liquors, wines and beers shall be regulated by law.
(b) Each county shall have the authority to require a criminal history records check and a 3 to 5-day waiting period, excluding weekends and legal holidays, in connection with the sale of any firearm occurring within such county. For purposes of this subsection, the term "sale" means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration for any firearm when any part of the transaction is conducted on property to which the public has the right of access. Holders of a concealed weapons permit as prescribed by general law shall not be subject to the provisions of this subsection when purchasing a firearm.
As far a a Sheriff / Police Chief refusing to sign off on any NFA paperwork it's a dick move to be sure but not illegal. Unfortunately their is nothing that says they have to do this. The easy workaround, as long as it's legal to own in the state, is to get a simple firearms trust or purchase through a LLC or other corp. I have my NFA items owned through a Nevada LLC. I have it set up as an investment group so the only hassle is filing an annual tax return for the LLC. In addition you can put on as many friends or family members as you'd like as managing partners and they can then all legally possess, transport and otherwise use the property (NFA weapons) of the LLC wherever it is legal to do so. It's a nice way to give you're local LEO the finger even though he has no clue you're doing it.
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I knew I liked you for a reason, and not just the avatar either! That is something that I, who prides himself on being evil and sneaky, never thought of. (I mean hell, I teach people how to distrust the state for a living). As the Godfather said "You can steal more with a brief case than with a gun", or words to that effect. When you use the briefcase to get the gun through an out of state alphabet soup LLC? The sky is the limit. This Libertarian's hat is off to you sir! I stand in awe.
FQ13 Screw the man! 8) ;D
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basfu, I believe you are wrong.
Here is the proper statute
790.33
Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.
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(1)
PREEMPTION.—Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or regulations relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances are hereby declared null and void. This subsection shall not affect zoning ordinances which encompass firearms businesses along with other businesses. Zoning ordinances which are designed for the purpose of restricting or prohibiting the sale, purchase, transfer, or manufacture of firearms or ammunition as a method of regulating firearms or ammunition are in conflict with this subsection and are prohibited.
(2)
LIMITED EXCEPTION; COUNTY WAITING-PERIOD ORDINANCES.—
(a)
Any county may have the option to adopt a waiting-period ordinance requiring a waiting period of up to, but not to exceed, 3 working days between the purchase and delivery of a handgun. For purposes of this subsection, “purchase” means payment of deposit, payment in full, or notification of intent to purchase. Adoption of a waiting-period ordinance, by any county, shall require a majority vote of the county commission on votes on waiting-period ordinances. This exception is limited solely to individual counties and is limited to the provisions and restrictions contained in this subsection.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/0790.html
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basfu, I believe you are wrong.
Here is the proper statute
790.33
Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.
—
(1)
PREEMPTION.—Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or regulations relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances are hereby declared null and void. This subsection shall not affect zoning ordinances which encompass firearms businesses along with other businesses. Zoning ordinances which are designed for the purpose of restricting or prohibiting the sale, purchase, transfer, or manufacture of firearms or ammunition as a method of regulating firearms or ammunition are in conflict with this subsection and are prohibited.
(2)
LIMITED EXCEPTION; COUNTY WAITING-PERIOD ORDINANCES.—
(a)
Any county may have the option to adopt a waiting-period ordinance requiring a waiting period of up to, but not to exceed, 3 working days between the purchase and delivery of a handgun. For purposes of this subsection, “purchase” means payment of deposit, payment in full, or notification of intent to purchase. Adoption of a waiting-period ordinance, by any county, shall require a majority vote of the county commission on votes on waiting-period ordinances. This exception is limited solely to individual counties and is limited to the provisions and restrictions contained in this subsection.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/0790.html
It looks like a redundancy issue. maybe they addressed it in more than one place. Either way County waiting periods are in the state statutes, that's the point I was trying to make. Once the statute is on the books, regardless of which one they're sighting to have their little county waiting period, it's that much harder to end it. THe good thing is all you really have to do is drive one county away and buy it the same day. As far as the NFA stuff and corporations and trusts I know that works and spent some cash with and attorney to research it and get what worked best for me.