The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on September 07, 2010, 09:58:15 PM
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First it was those irresponsible jackasses in my home state of sunny Florida burning Korans. This is probably the most irresponsible publicity stunt dreamed up outside of Hollywood in recent years. You'd think it would top the charts for crazy.
Oh, but wait! It gets better.
The left, not to be outdone by a bunch of rightwingers for Koran inspired idiocy, consulted its experts and came up with this gem.
"Gee", asked the Hartford city Council, "what better way to mark September than to start all Council meetings off with an Islamic prayer to show solidarity with our muslim brothers"?
I have concluded that exposure to Islam makes non-muslims of whatever stripe gibbering idiots. You have got be kidding me! Can we draft all 50 members of the Dove Outreach Center and the Hartford City Council and deploy them in Afghanistan? Please?
FQ13 who REALLY hopes this is an election year in Hartford. >:(
The following is from the local NBC affiliate off of Drudge
City Council Meetings to Begin with Muslim Prayers
By BOB CONNORS Updated 8:04 PM EDT, Tue, Sep 7, 2010
In the wake of the battle over a mosque at Ground Zero, a move by Hartford City Council
The Council announced Tuesday that it has invited local imams to perform Islamic invocations at the beginning of the Council meetings in September.
Though meetings don't regularly begin with any form of prayer, an email from the Common Council called it "an act of solidarity with our Muslim brothers and sisters."
The email even referenced the ongoing issue in New York. "One of the goals of the Council is to give a voice to the many diverse peoples of the City, which is especially important given the recent anti-Islam events throughout the country."
Council President rJo Winch called it an important move for the Council. "I feel it is very important that, as a Council, we project a culture of inclusiveness in the City of Hartford. Too often it is our differences that divide us. In my opinion, it is our combination of differences that makes us strong," Winch said.
Follow us on Twitter @NBCConnecticut, on Facebook, and sign up for breaking news SMS alerts on your phone by texting “CTBREAKING” to 622669.
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First it was those irresponsible jackasses in my home state of sunny Florida burning Korans. This is probably the most irresponsible publicity stunt dreamed up outside of Hollywood in recent years. You'd think it would top the charts for crazy.
Oh, but wait! It gets better.
The left, not to be outdone by a bunch of rightwingers for Koran inspired idiocy, consulted its experts and came up with this gem.
"Gee", asked the Hartford city Council, "what better way to mark September than to start all Council meetings off with an Islamic prayer to show solidarity with our muslim brothers"?
I have concluded that exposure to Islam makes non-muslims of whatever stripe gibbering idiots. You have got be kidding me! Can we draft all 50 members of the Dove Outreach Center and the Hartford City Council and deploy them in Afghanistan? Please?
FQ13 who REALLY hopes this is an election year in Hartford. >:(
The following is from the local NBC affiliate off of Drudge
City Council Meetings to Begin with Muslim Prayers
By BOB CONNORS Updated 8:04 PM EDT, Tue, Sep 7, 2010
In the wake of the battle over a mosque at Ground Zero, a move by Hartford City Council
The Council announced Tuesday that it has invited local imams to perform Islamic invocations at the beginning of the Council meetings in September.
Though meetings don't regularly begin with any form of prayer, an email from the Common Council called it "an act of solidarity with our Muslim brothers and sisters."
The email even referenced the ongoing issue in New York. "One of the goals of the Council is to give a voice to the many diverse peoples of the City, which is especially important given the recent anti-Islam events throughout the country."
Council President rJo Winch called it an important move for the Council. "I feel it is very important that, as a Council, we project a culture of inclusiveness in the City of Hartford. Too often it is our differences that divide us. In my opinion, it is our combination of differences that makes us strong," Winch said.
Follow us on Twitter @NBCConnecticut, on Facebook, and sign up for breaking news SMS alerts on your phone by texting “CTBREAKING” to 622669.
So you expect people to adjust their rights based on convenience ?
Or are you one of those dumb asses that thinks terrorists actually care whether we burn Koran's or not ?
Wake up and smell the jihad, the only thing that would make them not hate us is if we died, are you willing to do that to avoid offending the Jihadi's ?
No one gives a crap what the "moderates" think, they are to gutless to fight on either side.
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They have as much right to their book burning as the muslims do to their mosque. But just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Mark my words, if that koran burning goes on, our soldiers lives will get harder and more dangerous. These guys want their 15 minutes. They got them, go home. Same with Hartford. Muslim prayers at the anniversery of 9/11? WTF? Ditto the Ground Zero mosque. If its their property, they can build, but its a bad idea and one they will come to regret. Just sayin' that sometimes discretion is not a bad thing. They can excersize their rights with my support, but all three groups need to understand that they are picking a fight that will have tangible negatives and few tangible positives.
FQ13
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You dumb ass, Do you actually think soldiers lives will get easier ? ::)
That kind of thinking is why you will fall for the next BS empty suit version of Obummer, just like you did last time.
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You dumb ass, Do you actually think soldiers lives will get easier ? ::)
We are in the process of trying to outbid the Talibs on village teenagers to peel off their casual/mercenary support. Whether this will work or not is anyone's guess. This doesn't help. Look, they can do it if they want. Its just that it seems that if I were planning this and Petraus asked me not to? I wouldn't, unless I thought it was absolutley necessary. By no means is that the case here. People bitch at BO for ignoring the generals. You're defending this guy for doing the same?
FQ13
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Your the one who has a problem with military rule.
Personally, I think it's a pointless money maker for "WaldenBooks". They can unload those Koran's no one is buying .
It does nothing for the Home cause but let some people vent, and feel like they did something meaningful.
And Overseas, Dude, they mean to rule the world, do you not "get" that ? The only way to deal with them is to kill them until they beg for mercy.
Then say "WHAT ? " and off a few more. ;D
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They have as much right to their book burning as the muslims do to their mosque. But just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Mark my words, if that koran burning goes on, our soldiers lives will get harder and more dangerous. These guys want their 15 minutes. They got them, go home. Same with Hartford. Muslim prayers at the anniversery of 9/11? WTF? Ditto the Ground Zero mosque. If its their property, they can build, but its a bad idea and one they will come to regret. Just sayin' that sometimes discretion is not a bad thing. They can excersize their rights with my support, but all three groups need to understand that they are picking a fight that will have tangible negatives and few tangible positives.
FQ13
Are you serious? WTF, FQ, even for you this is a monumentally lame-ass statement. The mooslims want to kill us. Or convert us. Period. They will (and have) lied to us, cheated us, killed us, done whatever they feel like to us and the uber-libs go running to accommodate them. That is why they are called sheeple, not citizens.
As to you OP, the answer is clear - fear. Insult a Christian, all you'll get in return is studied indifference, or perhaps the other cheek. Insult a Jew and you might get a letter from the ADL. Insult a Buddhist and you'll get reincarnated as a snake or bug.
Insult a mooslim, you'll get beheaded.
The libs still believe that all of our mooslim problems stems from the fact that this country has not played nice on the world stage. They have ignored mooslim history which is 1400 years of unrelenting death, destruction and subjugation.
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I believe FQ thinks that we are fighting some fringe group here. There is no such thing as a moderate muslim. We only call them moderates because they don't have the stones to kill anyone. It's not that they don't believe in it. We are at war with an entire culture here. Until people wake up and realize this, we can never win. There are 2 ways to win this war. Either we turn the entire middle east to glass, or we fight these clowns for an entire generation. Neither option is appealing, but there are your 2 options for a successful exit strategy.
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I believe FQ thinks that we are fighting some fringe group here. There is no such thing as a moderate muslim. We only call them moderates because they don't have the stones to kill anyone. It's not that they don't believe in it. We are at war with an entire culture here. Until people wake up and realize this, we can never win. There are 2 ways to win this war. Either we turn the entire middle east to glass, or we fight these clowns for an entire generation. Neither option is appealing, but there are your 2 options for a successful exit strategy.
10 Ring !
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I believe FQ thinks that we are fighting some fringe group here. There is no such thing as a moderate muslim. We only call them moderates because they don't have the stones to kill anyone. It's not that they don't believe in it. We are at war with an entire culture here. Until people wake up and realize this, we can never win. There are 2 ways to win this war. Either we turn the entire middle east to glass, or we fight these clowns for an entire generation. Neither option is appealing, but there are your 2 options for a successful exit strategy.
Have to ask why you think turning the middle east to glass will solve the problem? There is a large enough Muslim population outside of the mid east to continue.
And I have to ask why you think fighting them for just a generation will solve the problem? A generation is maybe 30 years....not sure that will end the problem either.
I guess either will trim the problem to more manageable limits, but it won't be over.
It will be over when the Islam faith changes. Maybe those two approaches may be enough incentive to trigger the change, maybe not.
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Have to ask why you think turning the middle east to glass will solve the problem? There is a large enough Muslim population outside of the mid east to continue.
And I have to ask why you think fighting them for just a generation will solve the problem? A generation is maybe 30 years....not sure that will end the problem either.
I guess either will trim the problem to more manageable limits, but it won't be over.
It will be over when the Islam faith changes. Maybe those two approaches may be enough incentive to trigger the change, maybe not.
As far as indiscriminately bombing the crap out of them, it shows that we are willing to do it so don't f**k with us.
I say fight them for a generation, (and I'm thinking more like 50 years) because it takes that long to weed a mentality out of a culture. Granted that strategy is likely to backfire, but only if we keep screwing our soldiers with unreasonable ROE.
The thing that people need to remember is that on 9-11 they purposely targeted CIVILIANS.
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The only way (IMHO) to stem the Islamic tide is to fight them on their own terms (dirty).....in the only way they understand.....and that is the old "my rock is bigger than your rock" method. Violence is the only thing they understand, and the muslims that don't fight, are bringing the ammo to the ones that do. They haven't changed in thousands of years and I don't expect them to change any time soon.
The US needs to fight dirtier and harder than they do and until our leaders realize this, we will be mired in this uncontrollable mess for a long time.
We're already in it, for better or worse, and the only way to get out is to do more damage to them than they can ever think of doing to us....then tell them to stay the f*ck at home or they will get even more.
If someone pisses in your front yard and you slap 'em hard enough, from then on they won't even fart within earshot of you.
JMHOFWIW
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The only way (IMHO) to stem the Islamic tide is to fight them on their own terms (dirty).....in the only way they understand.....and that is the old "my rock is bigger than your rock" method. Violence is the only thing they understand, and the muslims that don't fight, are bringing the ammo to the ones that do. They haven't changed in thousands of years and I don't expect them to change any time soon.
The US needs to fight dirtier and harder than they do and until our leaders realize this, we will be mired in this uncontrollable mess for a long time.
We're already in it, for better or worse, and the only way to get out is to do more damage to them than they can ever think of doing to us....then tell them to stay the f*ck at home or they will get even more.
If someone pisses in your front yard and you slap 'em hard enough, from then on they won't even fart within earshot of you.
JMHOFWIW
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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A show of force or the willingness to fight won't sure won't cut it. Part of their beliefs is that Allah will ensure their victory if they fight hard enough to please him. They are wanting us to enter the war. Not only is it likely to stir some of the "moderates" into joining the fight, they believe Allah will enter the fray on their side and ensure their victory.
Not saying a war can or should be avoided, just that it will be a long and tough one. The more they lose, the harder they will try.
The only way to avoid all of that is if the "moderates" to what is necessary to change their religion. Not placing any bets on that either.
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This just in....Palin and the Quaker agree?????? :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
This from Brietbart
Palin: Koran burning is 'unnecessary provocation'
Sep 8 06:38 PM US/Eastern
Former US vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin, pictured in August, 2010, ...
Former US vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin on Wednesday condemned a small Florida church's planned Koran burning ceremony as an "insensitive and an unnecessary provocation."
"Book burning is antithetical to American ideals," Palin, a possible Republican contender for the White House in 2012, said in a post on her Facebook page.
"People have a constitutional right to burn a Koran if they want to, but doing so is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation -- much like building a mosque at Ground Zero," said the former Alaska governor.
She was comparing the evangelical Christian Dove World Outreach Center's plans to torch Islam's holy book on the anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist strikes to plans to build a community center to include a mosque some two blocks from the site of the attacks in New York City.
Palin urged the Koran burning organizer, Pastor Terry Jones, to reconsider the possible effects of their planned gesture, which has drawn expressions of outrage from around the globe.
"It will feed the fire of caustic rhetoric and appear as nothing more than mean-spirited religious intolerance. Don't feed that fire," she said.
"If your ultimate point is to prove that the Christian teachings of mercy, justice, freedom, and equality provide the foundation on which our country stands, then your tactic to prove this point is totally counter-productive."
Palin noted the importance of freedom of religion in the United States and warned against "unnecessarily provoking strife."
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This just in....Palin and the Quaker agree?????? :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Surely, this is one of the signs foretold by John of Padmos signaling the Apocalypse!!
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Why is it the Virgin Mary can be sculpted in excrement, Christ on the cross can be submerged in urine, and these get art exhibits with paying admission?
Bible thumping evangelicals, right wing Christians are scoffed, ridiculed, belittled, and mocked, yet a cartoonist in Holland draws a simple cartoon of Muhammad, and the Muslims call for his death?
An American Network, has a parody on South Park, and the Muslims get their boxers in a bunch faster than a AK bullet.
Remember Salman Rushdie? He still has a bounty on his head, for writing the Satanic Verses. This book had nothing to do with Satan.
Just a tale the Muslims didn't approve of, and a intolerable view of ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE KORAN. Rushdie is just telling a story, and they cry for his head.
Frankly, I'm tired of "tip-toeing" around OFFENDING Islam. While Christianity can be trodden on.
Notice how fast the current Admin is APPEASING the Muslims by the political elites? For some asshat burning some Korans in a little ol' church in FL?
Ask our troops if they can be appeased?
Even snopes has General Pershing's method of dealing with Muslims in the Phillipines as "undetermined"...
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.asp
Bet you he did...
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Pershing wasn't the General in the Phillipines, It was Frederick Funstun and Arthur Macarthur.
The method used was called the "Water torture", US troops resorted to that after they got sick of the "Peace loving Muslims" hacking them apart with machetes.
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You won't stop a rabid dog from attacking by offering a milk-bone, a steak, or a hunk of prime rib. Neither will you stop a mohammadanist from wanting your death by letting him kill you just a little bit. This seems to be a concept that is beyond FQ and his fellow libs.
They want us dead, people. That's the end game for these cretins. Until and unless a massive "reformation" takes place within the mohammadanist faith, that will be the reality for the foreseeable future.
You deal with a rabid dog with a quick head shot. That's all I'm sayin...
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You won't stop a rabid dog from attacking by offering a milk-bone, a steak, of a hunk of prime rib. Neither will you stop a mohammadanist from wanting your death by letting him kill you just a little bit. This seems to be a concept that is beyond FQ and his fellow libs.
They want us dead, people. That's the end game for these cretins. Until and unless a massive "reformation" takes place within the mohammadanist faith, that will be the reality for the foreseeable future.
You deal with a rabid dog with a quick head shot. That's all I'm sayin...
Let me ask this.
If for every rabid dog you dispatched with a quick head shot, two more appeared, how soon would you reconsider shooting them out of hand.
To me, the book burning is like that. It will have the effect of moving some fence sitters towards Jihad.
Further, it is what the Jihad hopes will happen. They want to push it to war and inflaming the Muslim population will strengthen their side.
Not saying we can or should avoid the head shot when needed, but the book burning does not advance our goals while it does theirs.
This is assuming our goal is to end the Muslim threat rather than participate a Holy War.
That war might be the only way it will end, but I'd like to hope Muslims can make the changes to their religion that are needed.
But I cannot argue much with anyone who feels that if they haven't changed in centuries, there is little hope they will now.
Like FQ's grandfather said, There are many reasons to kill a man, none to be rude to him.
If we are going to war, we need to do so and the less rudeness shown the fewer supporters the other side will have.
When you put down that rabid dog, you don't then mutilate it or degrade it, you just dispose of it.
Doing other wise will only inflame the other dogs....which is just why that is done to our soldiers/citizens. They want all of us inflamed to start the Holy War.
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Let me ask this.
If for every rabid dog you dispatched with a quick head shot, two more appeared, how soon would you reconsider shooting them out of hand.
To me, the book burning is like that. It will have the effect of moving some fence sitters towards Jihad.
Further, it is what the Jihad hopes will happen. They want to push it to war and inflaming the Muslim population will strengthen their side.
Not saying we can or should avoid the head shot when needed, but the book burning does not advance our goals while it does theirs.
This is assuming our goal is to end the Muslim threat rather than participate a Holy War.
That war might be the only way it will end, but I'd like to hope Muslims can make the changes to their religion that are needed.
But I cannot argue much with anyone who feels that if they haven't changed in centuries, there is little hope they will now.
Like FQ's grandfather said, There are many reasons to kill a man, none to be rude to him.
If we are going to war, we need to do so and the less rudeness shown the fewer supporters the other side will have.
When you put down that rabid dog, you don't then mutilate it or degrade it, you just dispose of it.
Doing other wise will only inflame the other dogs....which is just why that is done to our soldiers/citizens. They want all of us inflamed to start the Holy War.
Have you been drinking FQ's koolaid? Think about what you are saying here. WE ARE AT WAR. We've been at war with these clowns for 9 years now. For them this is holy war. This is their end game. They are not going to stop. That is why the only way to get out of this war is to start leveling countries. These people are like the Japanese. They don't surrender. They die, taking as many of us with them as they can.
Unfortunately the hearts and minds campaign that you and FQ seem to love so much doesn't work. It never will. The only real way to win a war is to break the back of your enemy. Cause so much damage to him and his that he loses not only his will, but his ability to fight you. Then you plant your flag and you tell him that from now on he will play by your rules. Then you kick the crap out of him now and again just to remind him who's boss. Do you not see that this is exactly what the ground zero mosque is? It is them planting their flag and telling us that sharia law is coming to America.
You are so focused on the details of this that you are missing the big picture. These are just little skirmishes. The war that we are waging right now will ultimately determine the religious freedom of the entire world.
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JC
Lets slow down here. You are assuming there is an existential and eternal war. That's sadly probably true for Israel. Not for us. The US has co-existed quite peacefully with most muslims for the majority of our history (the Barbary pirates and the Moros excepted). This only started to change during the latter stages of the Cold War. The reason? We started messing around in the sandbox. First we started to aggresively support Israel once Syria and Egypt cozied up to the Sovs and secondly because we started playing games in Iran and propping up the Saudis. Until then, we had prety good relations with most muslims.
We won't stop supporting Israel. What we can and must do is work tirelessly (even if it costs some real money) to move towards energy independence. The average muslim doesn't get out of bed pissed off at the world. Like everyone else, they need a reason to listen to the idiots. We should not go out of our way to give them those reasons.
Your argument has two problems.
First, while the fanatics have always been there, the levels of support they draw has varied radically over time in response to current conditions. This says that the average muslims tendency toward militancy is not constant, but varies in response to economic and political events. These are questions for policy, not existential war.
Your second problem is one of math skills. There are one billion of them. How many head shots do you plan to make? On the one hand you say they are implacable fanatics who can't be dettered. Yet at the same time if we kill enough, the rest (assuming any are left) will be dettered. Which is it? Going to war with a religion is a bad idea. Just ask the Romans.
FQ13
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9-11-01 Slow down FU REMBER NEVER FORGET what are we waiting for? co-existed tell that to those people that jumped frome the WTC .
PEACE the only peace they know is death, they relish it GIVE DEATH TO THEM NOW or SUBMIT no other choice is offered .
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9-11-01 Slow down FU REMBER NEVER FORGET what are we waiting for? co-existed tell that to those people that jumped frome the WTC .
PEACE the only peace they know is death, they relish it GIVE DEATH TO THEM NOW or SUBMIT no other choice is offered .
I don't one hundred percent disagree T Bug. I am not Islam's number one fan. That said, whats your plan? What realistic option do you have that takes into account our history and global realities? Mine is pretty much what we are doing. Trying to seperate the average muslim worker bees from the radicals. I would also add changing imigration laws so we aren't importing trouble and working like hell to get to a point where we don't need their oil and saying see ya. I am honestly curious as to your solution. If you've got a good one, we could sure use it.
FQ13
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JC
Lets slow down here. You are assuming there is an existential and eternal war. That's sadly probably true for Israel. Not for us. FQ13
Fixed it for you.
As to the rabid dog analogy, if two came at me for every one I nailed in the head, I would stock up on ammo and keep shooting until my gun melted down. If I didn't have another gun available, I would use my piece of useless gun as a club until one of two things happened: the dogs would learn that it's not a good thing to attack the Rabbit; or they would convert me by severing my head (sorry for the mixed metaphor). Those are the only solutions available to the religion of peace. You really have to get past the idea that all they want is to be left alone. That's BS. All they want is world domination and Sharia everywhere. They will not stop until reformatio occurs (no evidence that it's going to happen any time soon) or when the expense of conflict becomes too dear to bear.
And as another point to this discussion, I spent years dealing with the Israelis and also with the Pakistanis--selling high-tech military electronics--and the one reality that was a constant was this: If the mohammadinists put down their weapons today, there would be peace today; if the Israelis put down their weapons today, there would be no Israel tomorrow.
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Fixed it for you.
As to the rabid dog analogy, if two came at me for every one I nailed in the head, I would stock up on ammo and keep shooting until my gun melted down. If I didn't have another gun available, I would use my piece of useless gun as a club until one of two things happened: the dogs would learn that it's not a good thing to attack the Rabbit; or they would convert me by severing my head (sorry for the mixed metaphor).
No offense, but better that than converting you by giving you rabies. A headless rabbit? Just kind of gross. A rabid one? Well, thats damn scary (just ask Carter). ;D
FQ13
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JC
Lets slow down here. You are assuming there is an existential and eternal war. That's sadly probably true for Israel. Not for us. The US has co-existed quite peacefully with most muslims for the majority of our history (the Barbary pirates and the Moros excepted). This only started to change during the latter stages of the Cold War. The reason? We started messing around in the sandbox. First we started to aggresively support Israel once Syria and Egypt cozied up to the Sovs and secondly because we started playing games in Iran and propping up the Saudis. Until then, we had prety good relations with most muslims.
We won't stop supporting Israel. What we can and must do is work tirelessly (even if it costs some real money) to move towards energy independence. The average muslim doesn't get out of bed pissed off at the world. Like everyone else, they need a reason to listen to the idiots. We should not go out of our way to give them those reasons.
Your argument has two problems.
First, while the fanatics have always been there, the levels of support they draw has varied radically over time in response to current conditions. This says that the average muslims tendency toward militancy is not constant, but varies in response to economic and political events. These are questions for policy, not existential war.
Your second problem is one of math skills. There are one billion of them. How many head shots do you plan to make? On the one hand you say they are implacable fanatics who can't be dettered. Yet at the same time if we kill enough, the rest (assuming any are left) will be dettered. Which is it? Going to war with a religion is a bad idea. Just ask the Romans.
FQ13
First I don't ASSUME there is a an existential and eternal war. There is one in their eyes. Listen to what they say. Also consider this, WE DID NOT START THIS WAR. They declared war on us as early as the '93 WTC bombing. We just had a spineless CINC who launched cruise missiles into and asprin factory while he was getting a bj in the oval office, and couldn't be bothered with doing his job.
I don't have to ask the Romans. This is not a war you can win with shock and awe. But refer to my earlier point. War was declared on us. Not the other way around. That leaves us with 2 choices. Either submit, and surrender. (What we are steadily heading towards under the dear bowing leader) Or we cut loose the most powerful military force the world has ever known, and show these jihadists what true hell really is. I'm tired of messing around because we don't want to offend the "moderate" muslims. I don't buy the argument. It's like being kind of pregnant. You are or you aren't. There is no tolerance for moderation in that religion.
As for my math skills. Our military has been training for years to go toe to toe with 1 billion screaming chinamen. Cut our guys loose to fight to their ability, and 1 billion religious fanatics gets wasted faster that congress wastes tax dollars.
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JC
Lets slow down here. You are assuming there is an existential and eternal war. That's sadly probably true for Israel. Not for us. The US has co-existed quite peacefully with most muslims for the majority of our history (the Barbary pirates and the Moros excepted). This only started to change during the latter stages of the Cold War. The reason? We started messing around in the sandbox. First we started to aggresively support Israel once Syria and Egypt cozied up to the Sovs and secondly because we started playing games in Iran and propping up the Saudis. Until then, we had prety good relations with most muslims.
We won't stop supporting Israel. What we can and must do is work tirelessly (even if it costs some real money) to move towards energy independence. The average muslim doesn't get out of bed pissed off at the world. Like everyone else, they need a reason to listen to the idiots. We should not go out of our way to give them those reasons.
Your argument has two problems.
First, while the fanatics have always been there, the levels of support they draw has varied radically over time in response to current conditions. This says that the average muslims tendency toward militancy is not constant, but varies in response to economic and political events. These are questions for policy, not existential war.
Your second problem is one of math skills. There are one billion of them. How many head shots do you plan to make? On the one hand you say they are implacable fanatics who can't be dettered. Yet at the same time if we kill enough, the rest (assuming any are left) will be dettered. Which is it? Going to war with a religion is a bad idea. Just ask the Romans.
FQ13
FQ, If you actually had learned anything in that college you attended you would realize that there is " an existential and eternal war" between Western culture and the Camel molesters. Ever heard of the siege of Vienna ? How about the Conquest of Spain ?
This stuff predates the founding of the US by a 1,000 years.
As to our own relations with them lets look at the record, Barbary Pirates act up, even that sissy Jefferson was forced to pretend he had a pair, after all your "reasonable" methods failed miserably. What worked ? Brute force, kick their azzes and we had 150 years off trouble free passage in the Med.
The Moro's ? they thought they could terrorize US Troops by cutting up prisoners with machete's. We've discussed the "water treatment else where. The Philipines may have many problems today, but Moro's attacking Americans still isn't one of them.
As Churchill said of the German's, "they are either at your throat or your knees", frequant beatings keep these ragheads in their proper place.
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply JC. I guess we just have two different ideas on how to approach the problem that we both recognize exists. I think we will both hope that noone gets killed over this. I realize that by typing this you are going to say "Aha! The Quaker proves my point. Piss off a Christian, we'll burn your book. Piss of muslim and he'll kill an innocent third party". Thats half true. Some will. The thing is, they are agents provocateur. If this guy wasn't burning the Koran, an Al Queda member in disguise would, to generate a back lash. :-\ It may come to a cultural war, but since its what they want, I'm going to try to avoid it.
FQ13
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My $0.02
This "minister" is a publicy seeking asshole. It has nothing to do with anything bigger than getting his name in the paper and having his ego inflated by getting his butt stroked. "Please Rev. Ahole, don't burn the Koran." Screw him.
Listen up Rev. Ahole. You have a right to burn the book if you want to just like other idiots have the right to burn a flag. But understand if somebody breaks your jaw I'm not losing any sleep over it. It is all about him nothing to do about Islam.
I'm still wondering why this would make the news? Oh that's right, it sells newspapers and gives the Perky One something to talk about. TSK TSK Americans are so evil. FU media for making this newsworthy.
So now the attention on 9/11 is on some publicty hound in Fl intead of were it should be on the victims and heros of NY, VA and PA.
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply JC. I guess we just have two different ideas on how to approach the problem that we both recognize exists. I think we will both hope that noone gets killed over this. I realize that by typing this you are going to say "Aha! The Quaker proves my point. Piss off a Christian, we'll burn your book. Piss of muslim and he'll kill an innocent third party". Thats half true. Some will. The thing is, they are agents provocateur. If this guy wasn't burning the Koran, an Al Queda member in disguise would, to generate a back lash. :-\ It may come to a cultural war, but since its what they want, I'm going to try to avoid it.
FQ13
Happy that we can agree to disagree with methods. But my true point here is that we don't have a choice to avoid this. They have brought this to our shores. They HAVE declared war on us, as a civilization, as a culture. They are taught that they are mandated by their religion to either convert us, or kill us. Like it or not we are at war. If you think you can bury your head in the sand and avoid it, then you might as well follow BHO's lead and bow down to them 5 times a day and help build the ground zero mosque. Because they don't believe in the concept of live, and let live.
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RC, I agree with you up to a point, on the other hand, at least the "publicity hound" is reminding people that 9-11 was about Muslims killing thousands of Americans.
If you leave it to the media and current DC regime it would become some kind of muslim American friendship day. >:(
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That's Ground Zero Victory Mosque. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. Build it and we DIE.
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RC, I agree with you up to a point, on the other hand, at least the "publicity hound" is reminding people that 9-11 was about Muslims killing thousands of Americans.
If you leave it to the media and current DC regime it would become some kind of muslim American friendship day. >:(
Tom,
The point is that I doubt that ever entered his mind. It's all about him. Have you heard a single person who lost somebody on 9/11 say hey burn the book it will make me feel better?
Rev. Ahole I forgot it's the day my son got kill at the Pentagon. Please burn a Koran so I'll remember he did his duty so you can be a dipshi% anytime you want.
Sorry this is a complete distraction to what the focus should be.
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It doesn't take a rocket scientist to acknowledge the propaganda machine used by the terrorists to exploit new recruits. When Israel attacked terrorists that were firing from an occupied apt. bldg. Remember the residents were held there against there will by these brave creatures....
When Israel finally smart bombed the bldg, the terrorists wheeled out the dead old ladies, and children, crying "this is Israel" they slaughter women and children!!!!!
The U.N. fell for it, most of the world fell for it, and the cries of the "bad ol' Israel" became just about unanimous. The terrorists film American convoys driving past IED's, the last video of the suicide bombers is required, any and all exploits are utilized.
Some asshat in Fl. isn't going to "inspire" fence sitting terrorists. Money, threats of killing family members, and promoting misguided terrorist propaganda in their kids will, and has been, and will be after this dolt's 15 minutes of fame are up.
How many 7 year old have we seen holding AK's, or wearing a bomb vest? and yet WE are expected to "peacefully" deal with th
ese folks?
Not gonna happen.
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RatCatcher, It's one of those "perception" deals like MB talks about,
We all know the only thought in his head was "I'll be on TV, yuck, yuck, ".
What matters is that everyone who has heard about this, the first mental image they get is those planes hitting the tower,
and they remember alright.
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Found this over at Breda's http://www.thebredafallacy.com/
Could have posted it on several of the currently active threads closely related to this topic, but put it here because I think it was the first one...just to stir the pot a bit more...
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Found this over at Breda's http://www.thebredafallacy.com/
Could have posted it on several of the currently active threads closely related to this topic, but put it here because I think it was the first one...just to stir the pot a bit more...
This also from Breda:
C'mon Jihad Me!
Conflagration
In a world where I can carry the Complete Works of William Shakespeare on a device small enough to fit in my pocket, book burning is primitive and irrelevant. I can download and delete the Qur'an over and over, all day long. It means nothing. And in the end, all books will succumb to the rot of time, crumbling to dust, without the help of a zealot's flame. There are no sacred objects.
That we are even having this debate shows how far we have fallen. We are now appeasing the barbarians who have always intended to slaughter us all anyway.
By 'Breda' at;
http://www.thebredafallacy.com/