The Crazy Just Keeps on Coming! Why does Islam Inspire Stupidity?

[JC5123]

Let me ask this.   

If for every rabid dog you dispatched with a quick head shot, two more appeared, how soon would you reconsider shooting them out of hand.

To me, the book burning is like that.  It will have the effect of moving some fence sitters towards Jihad.

Further, it is what the Jihad hopes will happen.  They want to push it to war and inflaming the Muslim population will strengthen their side.

Not saying we can or should avoid the head shot when needed, but the book burning does not advance our goals while it does theirs.

This is assuming our goal is to end the Muslim threat rather than participate a Holy War. 

That war might be the only way it will end, but I'd like to hope Muslims can make the changes to their religion that are needed.

But I cannot argue much with anyone who feels that if they haven't changed in centuries, there is little hope they will now.

Like FQ's grandfather said,   There are many reasons to kill a man, none to be rude to  him.

If we are going to war, we need to do so and the less rudeness shown the fewer supporters the other side will have.

When you put down that rabid dog, you don't then mutilate it or degrade it, you just dispose of it.

Doing other wise will only inflame the other dogs....which is just why that is done to our soldiers/citizens.  They want all of us inflamed to start the Holy War. 



 

Have you been drinking FQ's koolaid?  Think about what you are saying here. WE ARE AT WAR. We've been at war with these clowns for 9 years now. For them this is holy war. This is their end game. They are not going to stop. That is why the only way to get out of this war is to start leveling countries. These people are like the Japanese. They don't surrender. They die, taking as many of us with them as they can.

Unfortunately the hearts and minds campaign that you and FQ seem to love so much doesn't work. It never will. The only real way to win a war is to break the back of your enemy. Cause so much damage to him and his that he loses not only his will, but his ability to fight you. Then you plant your flag and you tell him that from now on he will play by your rules. Then you kick the crap out of him now and again just to remind him who's boss. Do you not see that this is exactly what the ground zero mosque is? It is them planting their flag and telling us that sharia law is coming to America.

You are so focused on the details of this that you are missing the big picture. These are just little skirmishes. The war that we are waging right now will ultimately determine the religious freedom of the entire world. 

[fightingquaker13]

JC
Lets slow down here. You are assuming there is an existential and eternal war. That's sadly probably true for Israel. Not for us. The US has co-existed quite peacefully with most muslims for the majority of our history (the Barbary pirates and the Moros excepted). This only started to change during the latter stages of the Cold War. The reason? We started messing around in the sandbox. First we started to aggresively support Israel once Syria and Egypt cozied up to the Sovs and secondly because we started playing games in Iran and propping up the Saudis. Until then, we had prety good relations with most muslims.
We won't stop supporting Israel. What we can and must do is work tirelessly (even if it costs some real money) to move towards energy independence. The average muslim doesn't get out of bed pissed off at the world. Like everyone else, they need a reason to listen to the idiots. We should not go out of our way to give them those reasons.
Your argument has two problems.
First, while the fanatics have always been there, the levels of support they draw has varied radically over time in response to current conditions. This says that the average muslims tendency toward militancy is not constant, but varies in response to economic and political events. These are questions for policy, not existential war.
Your second problem is one of math skills. There are one billion of them. How many head shots do you plan to make? On the one hand you say they are implacable fanatics who can't be dettered. Yet at the same time if we kill enough, the rest (assuming any are left) will be dettered. Which is it?  Going to war with a religion is a bad idea. Just ask the Romans.
FQ13

[tbug]

9-11-01 Slow down FU REMBER NEVER FORGET what are we waiting for? co-existed   tell that to those people that jumped frome the  WTC .
PEACE the only peace they know is death, they relish it GIVE DEATH TO THEM NOW or SUBMIT  no other choice is offered .

[fightingquaker13]

9-11-01 Slow down FU REMBER NEVER FORGET what are we waiting for? co-existed   tell that to those people that jumped frome the  WTC .
PEACE the only peace they know is death, they relish it GIVE DEATH TO THEM NOW or SUBMIT  no other choice is offered .

I don't one hundred percent disagree T Bug. I am not Islam's number one fan. That said, whats your plan? What realistic option do you have that takes into account our history and global realities? Mine is pretty much what we are doing. Trying to seperate the average muslim worker bees from the radicals. I would also add changing imigration laws so we aren't importing trouble and working like hell to get to a point where we don't need their oil and saying see ya.  I am honestly curious as to your solution. If you've got a good one, we could sure use it.
FQ13

[crusader rabbit]

JC
Lets slow down here. You are assuming there is an existential and eternal war. That's sadly probably   true for Israel. Not for us. FQ13

Fixed it for you. 
As to the rabid dog analogy, if two came at me for every one I nailed in the head, I would stock up on ammo and keep shooting until my gun melted down.  If I didn't have another gun available, I would use my piece of useless gun as a club until one of two things happened:  the dogs would learn that it's not a good thing to attack the Rabbit;  or they would convert me by severing my head (sorry for the mixed metaphor).  Those are the only solutions available to the religion of peace.  You really have to get past the idea that all they want is to be left alone.  That's BS.  All they want is world domination and Sharia everywhere.  They will not stop until reformatio occurs (no evidence that it's going to happen any time soon) or when the expense of conflict becomes too dear to bear.

And as another point to this discussion, I spent years dealing with the Israelis and also with the Pakistanis--selling high-tech military electronics--and the one reality that was a constant was this:  If the mohammadinists put down their weapons today, there would be peace today;  if the Israelis put down their weapons today, there would be no Israel tomorrow.

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[fightingquaker13]

Fixed it for you.  
As to the rabid dog analogy, if two came at me for every one I nailed in the head, I would stock up on ammo and keep shooting until my gun melted down.  If I didn't have another gun available, I would use my piece of useless gun as a club until one of two things happened:  the dogs would learn that it's not a good thing to attack the Rabbit;  or they would convert me by severing my head (sorry for the mixed metaphor).  

No offense, but better that than converting you by giving you rabies. A headless rabbit? Just kind of gross. A rabid one? Well, thats damn scary (just ask Carter).
FQ13

[JC5123]

JC
Lets slow down here. You are assuming there is an existential and eternal war. That's sadly probably true for Israel. Not for us. The US has co-existed quite peacefully with most muslims for the majority of our history (the Barbary pirates and the Moros excepted). This only started to change during the latter stages of the Cold War. The reason? We started messing around in the sandbox. First we started to aggresively support Israel once Syria and Egypt cozied up to the Sovs and secondly because we started playing games in Iran and propping up the Saudis. Until then, we had prety good relations with most muslims.
We won't stop supporting Israel. What we can and must do is work tirelessly (even if it costs some real money) to move towards energy independence. The average muslim doesn't get out of bed pissed off at the world. Like everyone else, they need a reason to listen to the idiots. We should not go out of our way to give them those reasons.
Your argument has two problems.
First, while the fanatics have always been there, the levels of support they draw has varied radically over time in response to current conditions. This says that the average muslims tendency toward militancy is not constant, but varies in response to economic and political events. These are questions for policy, not existential war.
Your second problem is one of math skills. There are one billion of them. How many head shots do you plan to make? On the one hand you say they are implacable fanatics who can't be dettered. Yet at the same time if we kill enough, the rest (assuming any are left) will be dettered. Which is it?  Going to war with a religion is a bad idea. Just ask the Romans.
FQ13

First I don't ASSUME there is a an existential and eternal war. There is one in their eyes. Listen to what they say. Also consider this, WE DID NOT START THIS WAR. They declared war on us as early as the '93 WTC bombing. We just had a spineless CINC who launched cruise missiles into and asprin factory while he was getting a bj in the oval office, and couldn't be bothered with doing his job.

I don't have to ask the Romans. This is not a war you can win with shock and awe. But refer to my earlier point. War was declared on us. Not the other way around. That leaves us with 2 choices. Either submit, and surrender. (What we are steadily heading towards under the dear bowing leader) Or we cut loose the most powerful military force the world has ever known, and show these jihadists what true hell really is. I'm tired of messing around because we don't want to offend the "moderate" muslims. I don't buy the argument. It's like being kind of pregnant. You are or you aren't. There is no tolerance for moderation in that religion.

As for my math skills. Our military has been training for years to go toe to toe with 1 billion screaming chinamen. Cut our guys loose to fight to their ability, and 1 billion religious fanatics gets wasted faster that congress wastes tax dollars.

[tombogan03884]

JC
Lets slow down here. You are assuming there is an existential and eternal war. That's sadly probably true for Israel. Not for us. The US has co-existed quite peacefully with most muslims for the majority of our history (the Barbary pirates and the Moros excepted). This only started to change during the latter stages of the Cold War. The reason? We started messing around in the sandbox. First we started to aggresively support Israel once Syria and Egypt cozied up to the Sovs and secondly because we started playing games in Iran and propping up the Saudis. Until then, we had prety good relations with most muslims.
We won't stop supporting Israel. What we can and must do is work tirelessly (even if it costs some real money) to move towards energy independence. The average muslim doesn't get out of bed pissed off at the world. Like everyone else, they need a reason to listen to the idiots. We should not go out of our way to give them those reasons.
Your argument has two problems.
First, while the fanatics have always been there, the levels of support they draw has varied radically over time in response to current conditions. This says that the average muslims tendency toward militancy is not constant, but varies in response to economic and political events. These are questions for policy, not existential war.
Your second problem is one of math skills. There are one billion of them. How many head shots do you plan to make? On the one hand you say they are implacable fanatics who can't be dettered. Yet at the same time if we kill enough, the rest (assuming any are left) will be dettered. Which is it?  Going to war with a religion is a bad idea. Just ask the Romans.
FQ13

FQ, If you actually had learned anything in that college you attended you would realize that there is  " an existential and eternal war" between Western culture and the Camel molesters. Ever heard of the siege of Vienna ? How about the Conquest of Spain ?
This stuff predates the founding of the US by a 1,000 years.
As to our own relations with them lets look at the record, Barbary Pirates act up, even that sissy Jefferson was forced to pretend he had a pair, after all your "reasonable" methods failed miserably. What worked ? Brute force, kick their azzes and we had 150 years off trouble free passage in the Med.
The Moro's ? they thought they could terrorize US Troops by cutting up prisoners with machete's. We've discussed the "water treatment else where. The Philipines may have many problems today, but Moro's attacking Americans still isn't one of them.
As Churchill said of the German's, "they are either at your throat or your knees", frequant beatings keep these ragheads in their proper place.

[fightingquaker13]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply JC. I guess we just have two different ideas on how to approach the problem that we both recognize exists. I think we will both hope that noone gets killed over this. I realize that by typing this you are going to say "Aha! The Quaker proves my point. Piss off a Christian, we'll burn your book. Piss of muslim and he'll kill an innocent third party". Thats half true. Some will. The thing is, they are agents provocateur. If this guy wasn't burning the Koran, an Al Queda member in disguise would, to generate a back lash. It may come to a cultural war, but since its what they want, I'm going to try to avoid it.
FQ13

[ratcatcher55]

My $0.02

This "minister" is a publicy seeking asshole.  It has nothing to do with anything bigger than getting his name in the paper and having his ego inflated by getting his butt stroked. "Please Rev. Ahole, don't burn the Koran."  Screw him.

Listen up Rev. Ahole. You have a right to burn the book if you want to just like other idiots have the right to burn a flag.  But understand if somebody breaks your jaw I'm not losing any sleep over it.  It is all about him nothing to do about Islam.

I'm still wondering why this would make the news?  Oh that's right, it sells newspapers and gives the Perky One something to talk about. TSK TSK Americans are so evil.   FU media for making this newsworthy.

So now the attention on 9/11 is on some publicty hound in Fl intead of were it should be on the victims and heros of NY, VA and PA.