The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on October 12, 2010, 07:20:41 PM
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As a weary worker, far from home, the 11 hour days including last Sat. & Sun. in the truly depressing town of Bridgeport, is wearing thin.
Staying at an Extended Stay place, with a lousy mattress. :-\
But the money's good, the overtime's kickin', the crew is grateful me and the other two guys I'm up here with are helping finish the boat up for the trip south to the Ft. Laud. show. We'll be back on her down there to tidy up some loose ends.
I'll have some pics later this week. But she's a big girl, with all the bells and whistles. Sea-trial scheduled Thursday.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/Mega-yacht-Cakewalk-by-Derecktor-Shipyards.jpg)
Perspective, there are two men on the bow.
P.S. Glad I got wifi to keep in touch with DRTV, and just going to grind it out. Always feels better when I can vent, debate with FQ, or congratulate a new purchase for a member.
But seriously Bridgeport is a tired, 1/2 vacant, kinda run down N.E. town that still has bad drivers. :P
Thanks for the rant.
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Quit your whining and get that thing done - I'm waiting on delivery. I'm going to be the talk of Pueblo reservoir. ;D
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Yea TW...
Just about anything west of New Haven is just a suburb of NYC. Another city I'll never visit again!
Be safe!
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Some people don't know when they have it made.
Pictures from the movie "Overboard" come to mind.
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What a beautiful ship....
Now, which side is the bow?
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On Obama's ecconomy... :(
(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0PDoTF.D7VMF0AAS6qjzbkF/SIG=12aq3e3pl/EXP=1287020798/**http%3a//www.becaughtorbeketched.com/images/100_7334.JPG)
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Nice tw.
Been to business in Bridgeport a couple of times. Not a pleasant place to be, and yep, sort of dead too.
-Bidah
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I'm sorry, with the current government programs, this is more like what I have:
[Actual Size]
(http://www.faqs.org/photo-dict/photofiles/list/7672/10314toy_paper_ship.jpg)
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On Twyacht's boat... ;)
(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTeffNFbVMAQcAyQSjzbkF/SIG=137nrskt8/EXP=1287022413/**http%3a//www.frogview.com/uploadimages801/4c4eb701b1eb38.71486737frogview-gallery.jpg)
Must be Chinese owned.
Just like Obama.
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I sure understand, I hate being sent away for work! Seems like I always get sent to some place I really don’t want to be, and something always goes wrong.
But looking at that “Big Girl” I can’t help but wonder about who is spending that kind of cash in this economy?
Great pic Badgersmilk, if the Gov. continues on the same path, that is all our money will be worth!
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I sure understand, I hate being sent away for work! Seems like I always get sent to some place I really don’t want to be, and something always goes wrong.
But looking at that “Big Girl” I can’t help but wonder about who is spending that kind of cash in this economy?
Great pic Badgersmilk, if the Gov. continues on the same path, that is all our money will be worth!
I'll give you an answer. Here in Palm Beach a guy just bought this old historic mansion on one of the most desireable spots on the Island (it has a little cove for moorage). The thing had been on the market forever and the price kept dropping, still, no takers. Guy comes in with a cash deal. Chinese tycoon? Saudi Prince? Russian mafia? No, a bankruptcy lawyer. ;D :P
FQ13 who thinks his social calender might be a bit empty ;D
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I really think I would support an amendment that would ban lawyers from serving in any type of public office! With everything going on they always come out on top. The elected lawyers always pass laws that help their own and screw the rest of us, while exempting themselves from the law they pass, it really is a bunch of B.S. I'm never voting for a lawyer again!
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I sure understand, I hate being sent away for work! Seems like I always get sent to some place I really don’t want to be, and something always goes wrong.
But looking at that “Big Girl” I can’t help but wonder about who is spending that kind of cash in this economy?
Great pic Badgersmilk, if the Gov. continues on the same path, that is all our money will be worth!
That's all it's worth now.
The only reason our money has value, being back only by the "Integrity of the US Government", is because people keep excepting it.
If a few hundred people started saying "No, I don't take that worthless paper, do you have cabbages or some other actual item of value ?" It would threaten the entire world economy.
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That's all it's worth now.
The only reason our money has value, being back only by the "Integrity of the US Government", is because people keep excepting it.
If a few hundred people started saying "No, I don't take that worthless paper, do you have cabbages or some other actual item of value ?" It would threaten the entire world economy.
The same is true of gold or diamonds. Yeah, they're pretty, but they don't eat so good. Currency, be it gold or fiat money, is valuable becauase it is scarce and fungible, and holds a store of value. When it becomes over abundant, inflation results. Ironically, the first modern global inflationary crisis was caused by Spain bringing too much gold back from the New World. Gold plumeted in value as too much coin pursued the same amount of goods. Paper or precious metals, its only worth as much as your trading partner thinks it is.FQ13
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FQ, could you, in little words, explain why the stimulus has got to result in eventual hyper inflation of our currency, and the consequences of that.
I'm trying to explain it to a guy at work, "we'll be f&cked", lacks some of the detail he was looking for. ;D
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FQ, could you, in little words, explain why the stimulus has got to result in eventual hyper inflation of our currency, and the consequences of that.
I'm trying to explain it to a guy at work, "we'll be f&cked", lacks some of the detail he was looking for. ;D
Two small words: monetary policy.
The government controls the money supply. It doesn't control production of anything else.
Remember, money is a commodity like any other. Its no different than pots and pans. The more there is, the less its worth.
In an ideal world, if you do it right, more money (running the presses through deficit spending) increases the amount of dollars. More money in people's pockets equals more demand. Demand will stimulate supply and create jobs. This broadens the tax base and the debt is paid down. A rising tide lifts all boats.
In a less than ideal world? Too much money is pumped into the economy. It is chasing too few goods. Productivity remains stagnant, and all you do is devalue the currency. To put it simply, the demand for say, a winter coat is constant. The variable is how much it will cost me to buy it. If money is scarce, $50 is fair. If the printing presses are running hot? $5000 would be fair. The dollar amount is irrelevant. What matters is keeping the currency supply fixed to the rate of actual and expected production. Too much or too little are equally bad.
Now, our problem is that we are producing more pieces of paper that say "The full faith and credit", than we have assets to back those up. The only difference between the dollar and the peso is which you want in your safe deposit box for a rainy day. Me? I'd choose euros. :P
Hope that made sense.
FQ13
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See if I'm on track here,
In 1873 a Cowboy made $40/month A new Winchester (The contemporary latest and Greatest ) cost $40
In 2010 factory workers are making around $1600, While AR (the current latest and greatest )has settled around $800
making the AR worth a lot more MONEY, but only half the value.
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See if I'm on track here,
In 1873 a Cowboy made $40/month A new Winchester (The contemporary latest and Greatest ) cost $40
In 2010 factory workers are making around $1600, While AR (the current latest and greatest )has settled around $800
making the AR worth a lot more MONEY, but only half the value.
True, but, the idea that gold holds all things constant is BS. In 1935, the US pegged the value of an ounce of gold at $35. Since then, inflation has said that a 1935 dollar is worth a little north of 16 2010 dollars. Thus an ounce of gold should be a little south of $600 dollars. Yet it is around $1300. Why? People's perception of value. They'd rather have gold than currency, even though the current price is objectively irrational. The point here is that currency is a commodity. Its intrinsic value is zero. Its use value is whatever people think its worth. That evaluation is a product of social and political concerns. Don't belive me? If I were to offer you two ounces of gold for a box of .22LR today, you'd take it and laugh. Four weeks after a TEOTOWAKI event? You'd be laughing in my face and asking if I had any MREs.
FQ13
PS as far as the AR vs the Winchester? Id bet production and material costs play in here. Stuff was objectively more expensive back then as production was less effecient. Factor in modern methods? That Winchester would probably be worth the same 2 weeks wage or less. Doubt me? Everyone's grandmom knew how to sew and owned a sowing machine. How many of our daughters/granddaughters do? Why bother when you can buy new off the net for $15?
FQ13
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Hopefully in the next few months us foreign types should be able to buy guns at reasonable prices!! ;D
(http://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/AUD/graph120.png)
That upward trend is the Aus $$ compared to the monopoly US $$.
Might even be affordable to take a trip over to the land where they speak with funny accents :P
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True, but, the idea that gold holds all things constant is BS. In 1935, the US pegged the value of an ounce of gold at $35. Since then, inflation has said that a 1935 dollar is worth a little north of 16 2010 dollars. Thus an ounce of gold should be a little south of $600 dollars. Yet it is around $1300. Why? People's perception of value.FQ13
This is true. What more or less proves it is how much Gold is pushed as a commodity today. They're advertising it on TV every 5 minutes, and people are buying into the scam, big time. Everyone has to have it, or should. People like Glen Beck are the greatest Gold salesmen on the planet. All of this is creating an artificial demand based on nothing more than fear of something that might happen. Same with Silver. It's at $23.00+ an ounce. A year ago it was at $16.00. What's changed? Inflation? Nope. If anything there is deflation. Look at the price of houses and new automobiles and trucks. Yes, a few things have gone up, but no where near enough to push Gold and Silver to where they now sit. Just like the housing market 5 years ago, it has had a "false demand" of sorts placed on it.
The only difference is instead of banks loaning money to idiot's who can't pay it back, we've got guys like Gordon Liddy and Glen Beck telling us it's time to dig that bunker in the back yard and buy Gold, NOW! As always, run with the sheep, and you'll be slaughtered. I look for Gold and Silver to take a major dump a few months after the election, if not sooner. Then, when everyone can't sell what they've got at a huge loss, will be the time to buy it. Again, just like housing.
If you think about it right now Gold and Silver are sitting right where AR-15's and AK-47's were right after Hussein's election. Their prices skyrocketed based on the perception that something bad MIGHT happen. In the case of AR's and AK's it was the fear Hussein would ban them. He didn't, people ran out of money and credit, and the prices plummeted, and availability went through the roof because people who bought them were dumping them, and manufacturers were producing them 24/7. Now they are all but half price if you shop around. Watch Gold and Silver do the exact same thing. Houses, black rifles, and soon Gold & Silver will join these commodities as abundant and CHEAP! Bill T.
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Average price of Gold in 2005..................$445.00
http://www.austincoins.com/gold_price.htm
Average median price of a home in 2005..............$213,900.00
http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/14/real_estate/NAR_fourth_quarter_sales/index.htm
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Current price of Gold............................$1,359.20 (As of 5:45 AM Phoenix time)
http://www.blanchardonline.com/market_charts/index.php?content=18668274311&gclid=CKL29-nrz6QCFQWAgwodkAmVEA
Current median price of a home.............$183,700.00
http://www.nuwireinvestor.com/articles/national-median-existing-home-price-increases-to-183700-in-june-55718.aspx
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
This shows how unbalanced and artificial the current price of Gold is. Just 5 years ago it was peoples perception that everything was wonderful, and the economy was booming. In reality we were headed for one of the greatest recessions / depressions in modern times. As a result Gold was cheap, abundant, and no one wanted it.
Fast forward to today, 5 years later. Housing is cheap, and in reality a much better buy and greater value than it was just 5 years ago, and Gold has increased over 3 FOLD. The only thing that has changed is peoples perception of things. They tend to think because so many have lost their homes and jobs, we're ready for TEOTWAWKI. Beck and Liddy support this type of thinking. Someone is going to be wrong, and someone is going to be right. Housing is a better buy, and no one wants it because they cannot afford to buy it. Gold is over priced and they're standing in line for it in the exact same economy. There in lies the perception. It's no different than trading stocks. You are buying the stock because you're convinced it's going to go up in value. The problem is you are buying it from someone who is equally convinced it is going down. Once again perception rules the thought process. If you replace perception with common sense, Gold is horribly overpriced based on the current economy and price of goods in general. Bill T.
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Actually Bill, If you buy one of those "cheap" foreclosed houses you will most likely get hosed on the taxes which are still based on the previous inflated price of the house. Not the current fire sale price.
Guy I work with had his house valued at $500 K taxes set at $10K/Year .
Housing crash comes along, the value drops 50%, Taxes stayed the same, now the house next door to his is valued at more than his but the taxes are lower.
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Actually Bill, If you buy one of those "cheap" foreclosed houses you will most likely get hosed on the taxes which are still based on the previous inflated price of the house. Not the current fire sale price.
Guy I work with had his house valued at $500 K taxes set at $10K/Year .
Housing crash comes along, the value drops 50%, Taxes stayed the same, now the house next door to his is valued at more than his but the taxes are lower.
You can petition to have yor home reappraised. its generally, at least here, granted. The tax collector is independently elected.
FQ13
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This is true. What more or less proves it is how much Gold is pushed as a commodity today. They're advertising it on TV every 5 minutes, and people are buying into the scam, big time. Everyone has to have it, or should. People like Glen Beck are the greatest Gold salesmen on the planet. All of this is creating an artificial demand based on nothing more than fear of something that might happen. Same with Silver. It's at $23.00+ an ounce. A year ago it was at $16.00. What's changed? Inflation? Nope. If anything there is deflation. Look at the price of houses and new automobiles and trucks. Yes, a few things have gone up, but no where near enough to push Gold and Silver to where they now sit. Just like the housing market 5 years ago, it has had a "false demand" of sorts placed on it.
The only difference is instead of banks loaning money to idiot's who can't pay it back, we've got guys like Gordon Liddy and Glen Beck telling us it's time to dig that bunker in the back yard and buy Gold, NOW! As always, run with the sheep, and you'll be slaughtered. I look for Gold and Silver to take a major dump a few months after the election, if not sooner. Then, when everyone can't sell what they've got at a huge loss, will be the time to buy it. Again, just like housing.
If you think about it right now Gold and Silver are sitting right where AR-15's and AK-47's were right after Hussein's election. Their prices skyrocketed based on the perception that something bad MIGHT happen. In the case of AR's and AK's it was the fear Hussein would ban them. He didn't, people ran out of money and credit, and the prices plummeted, and availability went through the roof because people who bought them were dumping them, and manufacturers were producing them 24/7. Now they are all but half price if you shop around. Watch Gold and Silver do the exact same thing. Houses, black rifles, and soon Gold & Silver will join these commodities as abundant and CHEAP! Bill T.
I agree with everything your saying here 100%. BUT. There will be a differance. When the housing market dumped, look what it did to the economy and society here in our country and around the world. With the state we're now in. What do you think will be left of that economy / society with another hit that would be even more devastating??? Though they are no longer connected in reality, society percieves the value of their dollars being based on gold.
Lets think in sheep logic (Glen Beck's audience). Your telling me my gold is worthless!?! But I grew up "knowing" that my dollars have their value because of gold somehow... AHHHHHHH!!!! :o :o :o Help me government! Give me something new to believe in!
But WHAT??? What can they offer? Governments maintaining ANY kind of control over people will be dependent upon their answer to this. Sooooooooooo. ???
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I agree with everything your saying here 100%. BUT. There will be a differance. When the housing market dumped, look what it did to the economy and society here in our country and around the world. With the state we're now in. What do you think will be left of that economy / society with another hit that would be even more devastating??? Though they are no longer connected in reality, society percieves the value of their dollars being based on gold.
Lets think in sheep logic (Glen Beck's audience). Your telling me my gold is worthless!?! But I grew up "knowing" that my dollars have their value because of gold somehow... AHHHHHHH!!!! :o :o :o Help me government! Give me something new to believe in!
But WHAT??? What can they offer? Governments maintaining ANY kind of control over people will be dependent upon their answer to this. Sooooooooooo. ???
I agree with Bill that the price of gold has been overly Hyper inflated mostly by fear. While I do think that commodities are something to get your hands on, at those prices you would need to be buying someones house in order to offload a couple ounces of gold. I DO think that the dollar is unstable, and the bottom is going to fall out. I for one am focusing on things that would be useful in the barter system that will inevitably follow a collapse of our currency. Pre '65 coins, all nickels (before they change the composition again) and durable goods. Especially the things that I don't think that people think about. i.e. lantern mantels, fuel stabilizer, things as simple as a needle and thread. They stuff that you always need at the worst possible time, but never really thought about until you did need it. I want to stock up on things that will be of real use and value if/when our currency collapses.
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You can petition to have yor home reappraised. its generally, at least here, granted. The tax collector is independently elected.
FQ13
This year the taxes on my home dropped over 35%, reflective on what it's actual value now is. Sometimes it takes time, but these tax liabilities are being adjusted. What is a greater concern are people who purchased in these "planned communities". Many tanked long before all of the amenities promised were actually provided for. The builder skipped, and now instead of a home that was supposed to have a golf course view, they can't open their windows because of all of the blowing dust and dirt. Bill T.
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I for one am focusing on things that would be useful in the barter system that will inevitably follow a collapse of our currency. Pre '65 coins, all nickels (before they change the composition again) and durable goods. Especially the things that I don't think that people think about. i.e. lantern mantels, fuel stabilizer, things as simple as a needle and thread. They stuff that you always need at the worst possible time, but never really thought about until you did need it. I want to stock up on things that will be of real use and value if/when our currency collapses.
I agree, and I'm doing much the same. A can of soup is worth more when you're starving, or a blanket when you're cold, than a Gold coin is. A gun and ammunition is the most valuable. With it you can get most anything. Bill T.
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This year the taxes on my home dropped over 35%, reflective on what it's actual value now is. Sometimes it takes time, but these tax liabilities are being adjusted. What is a greater concern are people who purchased in these "planned communities". Many tanked long before all of the amenities promised were actually provided for. The builder skipped, and now instead of a home that was supposed to have a golf course view, they can't open their windows because of all of the blowing dust and dirt. Bill T.
Same here in ND, only with flooding. Now that I'm on the P&Z Commission (chair it actually), I get to see all of the mistakes and mis-steps that predecessors made. One in particular was to allow a first batch of homes in a development to be built with storm sewers only in part of the development - with the other part getting storm sewers when Phase 2 was built. Guess what? No Phase 2 and a bunch of the homes were seriously threatened with flooding - and some got water in the basements - last Spring during the floods. So now we have to address the problems left behind because of this kind of foolishness. It ain't just the banks folks.
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Survival needs / trade goods....
Guns / ammo
Alcohol
gold
(not in any particular order)
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I agree with everything your saying here 100%. BUT. There will be a differance. When the housing market dumped, look what it did to the economy and society here in our country and around the world. With the state we're now in. What do you think will be left of that economy / society with another hit that would be even more devastating??? Though they are no longer connected in reality, society percieves the value of their dollars being based on gold.
All the housing market crash did was in reality take people out of someplace they had no business being in the first place. Now these people who were living in homes they did not have a single dime invested in, are living in rentals which is where they should have been all along. All the housing market did was create a false perception of wealth by allowing people to live better than they could afford with money they not only didn't possess, but could not pay back. What we are seeing is a "redistribution of wealth". Just not the kind Hussein wants. These homes will eventually be purchased by people with the money who can afford them. When that happens prices will once again start to rise, but in a much more stable, stronger market.
This whole process will take time. Perhaps a decade or more. But when the period of readjustment is over, the economy will be far more stable because it will represent real wealth, not paper credit. Much like the stock market was stronger when it returned to stability after the 1929 crash. Gold, while real, is vastly over inflated at the moment. The same will happen to it, and more wealth will be "redistributed".
The government now is much like IBM and Digital were in the 80's. They are overly fat, and will be required to slash and burn across the board. There is a way out of this, but it's not going to be easy by any stretch of the imagination. Look for tens, if not hundreds of thousands of government jobs to disappear. Government pensions to dissolve. Programs to be repealed and cut, and less government to go around for everyone. Exactly the total opposite of what Hussein's dream of "change" encompassed. They'll be change all right, just not what he expected, or any of the liberal dems. Liberalism is dead simply because no one can even remotely afford it. In this regard Hussein killed off his own party. The one's who are left will kick up some dust and bitch and moan, but the election will prove once and for all no one is listening. Bill T.
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Survival needs / trade goods....
Guns / ammo
Alcohol
gold
(not in any particular order)
Might be on to something, Haz. ;)
Stock up on food, guns, ammo, and stuff to make moonshine. Lay in corn and sugar in barrels. Even when the SHTF, people will want/need alcohol. Might make a great barter good.
People do love their liquor.
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I can see billt's future (small government, with much more limited control) easily becoming reality. If we're very lucky!
The only other options I see being a total communist state. :(
Or a total breakdown of society. I'm not buying that people today have enough intelligence and respect for each other, life, whatever, to not just kill on site without threat of punishment stopping them from it.
Imagin this. Joe Blow has lots of food stocked up that he stole from a grocery store (where else do you think he got it? Really???). You trade him a gun and ammunition he couldn't find for a bunch of food... Now Joe Blow is just going to say. "Thanks buddy." and walk away with loaded gun all happy? :-\ I'm not buying it. NOBODY is going to survive THIS long term (dream all you want). :( :(
Sure hope Bill is right! Hmmmmm, my pesimism / realism makes me think though...
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I can see billt's future (small government, with much more limited control) easily becoming reality. If we're very lucky!
The only other options I see being a total communist state. :(
Or a total breakdown of society. I'm not buying that people today have enough intelligence and respect for each other, life, whatever, to not just kill on site without threat of punishment stopping them from it.
Imagin this. Joe Blow has lots of food stocked up that he stole from a grocery store (where else do you think he got it? Really???). You trade him a gun and ammunition he couldn't find for a bunch of food... Now Joe Blow is just going to say. "Thanks buddy." and walk away with loaded gun all happy? :-\ I'm not buying it. NOBODY is going to survive THIS long term (dream all you want). :( :(
Sure hope Bill is right! Hmmmmm, my pesimism / realism make me think though...
I see what you are getting at, BUT like a discussion that we had awhile back about someone picking off rural houses. You assume that all of these dealings will be one on one, and that everyone will be out to "get" everyone else. I see the need for prudence, but get real, no one wants to try to weather that kind of storm alone. People WILL band together. It's simple human nature. I know that if I'm trading with you I'll be covered from angles you haven't even considered.
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I see what you are getting at, BUT like a discussion that we had awhile back about someone picking off rural houses. You assume that all of these dealings will be one on one, and that everyone will be out to "get" everyone else. I see the need for prudence, but get real, no one wants to try to weather that kind of storm alone. People WILL band together. It's simple human nature. I know that if I'm trading with you I'll be covered from angles you haven't even considered.
All I'll say is I think your underestimating "Joe"...
Times would be harder than we can even imagin. Few, and I mean one in hundreds of thousands would survive is my guess.
Though playing out ambush / sniping scenario's IS fun!!! ;D
I'm all for it! ;D ;D ;D
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I think that your numbers would be correct in larger cities. The major urban centers will be complete anarchy. I guess I have a different perspective where I live. I know my neighbors, and actually like them. We are always stopping and talking with each other. Most of us hunt and fish. We almost universally love the outdoors. Basically we have a lot in common. It is my belief that, at least in my neighborhood, we would be able to put aside any differences and band together for the common good. Besides, almost all of us have families to worry about and I just don't see us engaging in block warfare, unless it's to repel the zombies.
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During the Great Depression people helped one and other. Today I'm not so sure, especially as was mentioned in the larger inner cities. In the 80's you had women punching each other out over Cabbage Patch Dolls and Gloria Vanderbilt Jeans. Today they riot in front of Best Buy waiting for a chance to buy an X-Box. I can't imagine what some of these idiot's would do if they were hungry and cold! It will get ugly, that's for sure. For God's sake, these bimbos rioted at a chance to be the next "Top Model"! Bill T.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GiVpusFWv0
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During the Great Depression people helped one and other. Today I'm not so sure, especially as was mentioned in the larger inner cities. In the 80's you had women punching each other out over Cabbage Patch Dolls and Gloria Vanderbilt Jeans. Today they riot in front of Best Buy waiting for a chance to buy an X-Box. I can't imagine what some of these idiot's would do if they were hungry and cold! It will get ugly, that's for sure. For God's sake, these bimbos rioted at a chance to be the next "Top Model"! Bill T.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GiVpusFWv0
Good point. "walk softly and carry a large caliber?"
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Awesome, 3 pages of absolute professional caliber thread drift. ;D
Gold will always have value, however, based on what? A collapsed dollar will reset the value like the housing market.
Bartering ammo, dry goods, food, bldg. materials, etc,... will always have value to someone that can use it.
Trade my mule for your roofing shingles....Who needs it more.? The helping out each other, will be a minority, due to a "me first" cultural shift, but it will not happen in the cities, (like Bridgeport), due to the thugs, gangs, and criminal elements that will continue to disintegrate urban areas.
Like the moonshine theory. ;)
Don't forget about coffee. 8)
Based on what I've seen it will be like Ft. Apache (The Bronx), for those in urban areas. Getting to a secure state, zone, region, will be the reset button. It damn sure won't be the "easy button".....
OBTW, the owner of the M/Y Cakewalk, is a plastic tycoon, and an American, plastic bottles? Yes... his companies make about every one. Soda, shampoo, water, ketchup, mustard, whatever comes in a plastic container probably has one of his companies that make it.
The approx. cost for the boat, and toys is coming in around $275,000,000 bucks.
God Bless American Businessmen. Lots of folks are thankful for his endeavor.
Including me... ;D Who will be getting the FAL very soon..... ;)
and I thought "sporks" were just silly.... :P
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During the Great Depression people helped one and other. Today I'm not so sure, especially as was mentioned in the larger inner cities. In the 80's you had women punching each other out over Cabbage Patch Dolls and Gloria Vanderbilt Jeans. Today they riot in front of Best Buy waiting for a chance to buy an X-Box. I can't imagine what some of these idiot's would do if they were hungry and cold! It will get ugly, that's for sure. For God's sake, these bimbos rioted at a chance to be the next "Top Model"! Bill T.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GiVpusFWv0
I think your thought are correct on cities and larger urban areas, but in rural areas there will be more people working together to get through whatever the situation is. large groups working together, sharing resources,and services. They will weed out the bad, police themselves, and protect those that are weak but provide important services(IE doctors, chemists).
P.s. Lawyers and politicians will be shat on site ;D
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Awesome, 3 pages of absolute professional caliber thread drift. ;D
Gold will always have value, however, based on what? A collapsed dollar will reset the value like the housing market.
Bartering ammo, dry goods, food, bldg. materials, etc,... will always have value to someone that can use it.
Trade my mule for your roofing shingles....Who needs it more.? The helping out each other, will be a minority, due to a "me first" cultural shift, but it will not happen in the cities, (like Bridgeport), due to the thugs, gangs, and criminal elements that will continue to disintegrate urban areas.
Like the moonshine theory. ;)
Don't forget about coffee. 8)
Based on what I've seen it will be like Ft. Apache (The Bronx), for those in urban areas. Getting to a secure state, zone, region, will be the reset button. It damn sure won't be the "easy button".....
OBTW, the owner of the M/Y Cakewalk, is a plastic tycoon, and an American, plastic bottles? Yes... his companies make about every one. Soda, shampoo, water, ketchup, mustard, whatever comes in a plastic container probably has one of his companies that make it.
The approx. cost for the boat, and toys is coming in around $275,000,000 bucks.
God Bless American Businessmen. Lots of folks are thankful for his endeavor.
Including me... ;D Who will be getting the FAL very soon..... ;)
and I thought "sporks" were just silly.... :P
Good on ya, bro! Congrats on the FAL. And just think where we'd be without "sporks!" ;D ;D ;D
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Good on ya, bro! Congrats on the FAL. And just think where we'd be without "sporks!" ;D ;D ;D
Where's Haz and his "Sporkweasel" photo when you need him?....... ;D ;D ;D
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The only problem with Bills reasoning is that because of FDR's meddling, (which Obummer is copying ) the depression lasted twice as long as it naturally would have. The only thing that broke the depression and got us back onto solid footing was all the $ we made from WWII.
That will not occur now because that type of war would be over long before factories could be retooled for war production.
There is no way that the economy can be fixed by politicians.
No matter who wins the next few elections the economy will get drastically worse because of hyper inflation.
No politician has guts enough to make the drastic cuts in "Human Services" and "entitlements" that would be required to get control of the deficit.
As to what comes next ?
Dictatorship, it ALWAYS follows when democracies inevitably fail.
That's why we had a Republic until FDR "Made the world safe for democracy".
Except for the parts he sold out to the Soviets.
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No politician has guts enough to make the drastic cuts in "Human Services" and "entitlements" that would be required to get control of the deficit.
I doubt they'll have a choice. Bill T.
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Where's Haz and his "Sporkweasel" photo when you need him?....... ;D ;D ;D
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/hazcater/Fun%20Stuff/sporkweasel.jpg)
Sorry I wuz late, Peg. ;)
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(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/hazcater/Fun%20Stuff/sporkweasel.jpg)
Sorry I wuz late, Peg. ;)
I know I'll regret asking this, but is there some pop culture context for this I'm missing?
FQ13
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END - TIMES:
A good fiction book that plays out some of the scenarios in the event of an all out catastrophe is Lucifer's Hammer by Niven & Pournelle based on the very plausible event of a large meteor strike.
Of the several "rules" I've got swirling around in my head for catastrophic times is:
Never, ever, trade away firearms or ammo.
TAXING THE RICH:
Thomas Sowel put it like this. The "rich" invest or spend their money which creates jobs (TW's job on this yacht for example). So extra taxes on the rich takes money from those who create jobs and transfers it to the government who doesn't. In essence, extra taxes on the rich basically kills jobs.
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Twyacht, WE WANT PICS OF THE FAL BEFORE YOU EVEN GET IT HOME!!! NICE CHOICE!!!!!
Drift kings unite! ;D
(http://image.motortrend.com/f/auto-review/2010-ford-mustang-near-enough-is-not-good-enough/18717343+w750/2010-ford-shelby-gt500-drifting.jpg)
All started by a pic of toilet paper? LOL ;D
Now back to business.
Tom brings up what's been weighing on my mind about all this. WHO is going to actually dare downsize government? No politician is going to give up power / control over his sheep. They may claim to, only to pass a bunch of back door policy that gives them even more control than they started with. In the past, if budget didn't allow government to control things to their likeing it never discouraged them. They just keep on F'ing things up progressivly worse... How we got where we are today!
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the idea of Bill's small gov. future! The more I think about our past... It's just not plausible. IMO.
Dictatorship. Hmm, seems we're not far off that right now! A very blurry little differance anyway. An all out SHTF isn't going to happen the way we think of it. It would mean there is no government at all! They just won't roll over and let us do what we want. I know I keep bringing this up, but Katrina! It was a good indicator of how they'll take over when the time comes. "If you won't immediately submit, and hand over all firearms. Weve got a nice little prison camp we want to show you... After a good beat down!" It's the military. They WILL win!
Still leads me back to life under Mr. Joseph Stalin every time. :( Not that it's a GOOD thing!!! Just that it seems our inevitable reality.
(http://www.communisme-bolchevisme.net/images/urss_soviet_poster_08.jpg)
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All property will belong to "The State".
(http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/demotivational-posters-in-soviet-russia.jpg)
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I can see billt's future (small government, with much more limited control) easily becoming reality. If we're very lucky!
The only other options I see being a total communist state. :(
Or a total breakdown of society. I'm not buying that people today have enough intelligence and respect for each other, life, whatever, to not just kill on site without threat of punishment stopping them from it.
Imagin this. Joe Blow has lots of food stocked up that he stole from a grocery store (where else do you think he got it? Really???). You trade him a gun and ammunition he couldn't find for a bunch of food... Now Joe Blow is just going to say. "Thanks buddy." and walk away with loaded gun all happy? :-\ I'm not buying it. NOBODY is going to survive THIS long term (dream all you want). :( :(
Sure hope Bill is right! Hmmmmm, my pesimism / realism makes me think though...
What will tend to keep Joe Blow and you alive is that Joe knows you have a supply of ammo he needs and you know he has a supply of food you need. Killing Joe or him killing you cuts off that supply. You just have to be careful Joe doesn't find your stash and he will be making sure you don't find his. Of course, the availability of cover fire is always a great backup.
And Folks WILL be acting out of self interest. The Capable Decent folks will band together for mutual support. The Capable AHoles will be making raiding parties. Folks will be looking for "like minded" people to join. The internal dynamics of each group will be very different. Neither will have much use for the incapable.
Unfortunately telling the difference won't be so easy.
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Bridgeport, CT - Sporkweasels - Stalin.............. man can we drift. ;D ;D
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You need to look for a political party that has small government, independence ans self reliance as the basis of it's platform.
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Bridgeport, CT - Sporkweasels - Stalin.............. man can we drift. ;D ;D
Bridgeport Conn. - Stalins Soviet Union, not that much of a drift, although Conn is better than Mass.
Hey ! I no longer have to apologize to Tim every time I mention Massholes. Cool ;D
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Weren't we talking about boobs at some point?
(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTefcgSbdMAD4AQgmjzbkF/SIG=12il2s3vf/EXP=1287166624/**http%3a//cdn.pimpmyspace.org/media/pms/c/j5/5n/nm/rlsandguns.jpg)
What kind of gun does that girl on the right have?
Hey, let's go ride bikes!
ADHD... It's catchy! ;D ;D ;D
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She has a gun?!
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Hey ! I no longer have to apologize to Tim every time I mention Massholes. Cool ;D
You never had too! ;)
I was held prisoner for 13 years and have been liberated by the Constitution State!
I got my DL today. Only 117 bucks for seven years. Problem though.....there's some old f....r's picture on it that I don't recognize...
;D
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She has a gun?!
I don't know, Haz, she's pointing something at me! ;)
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She has a gun?!
If you look close you can she has a pair of 38s concealed mostly.
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If you look close you can she has a pair of 38s concealed mostly.
I'm thinkin' they're more along the lines of magnums! ;)
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I'm thinkin' they're more along the lines of magnums! ;)
Hard to tell from this angle in a photo. Closer examination would be needed for that determination....
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Hard to tell from this angle in a photo. Closer examination would be needed for that determination....
The one on our right is definitely packing magnums. However, I agree that closer inspection is needed to determine the exact caliber of hers and the status of the other two...errr... four.
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The one on our right is definitely packing magnums. However, I agree that closer inspection is needed to determine the exact caliber of hers and the status of the other two...errr... four.
It's apparently rather cold there. ;D
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Or at least the water is. (THANK YOU God! ;D )
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Or at least the water is. (THANK YOU God! ;D )
Water? Looking again....