The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: MAUSERMAN on October 27, 2010, 11:34:26 PM

Title: Ruger
Post by: MAUSERMAN on October 27, 2010, 11:34:26 PM
Why doesnt Ruger make a topbreak revolvers? Maybe its just me but I wont buy anything but Ruger wheel guns.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: Dakotaranger on October 28, 2010, 12:18:02 AM
Why doesnt Ruger make a topbreak revolvers? Maybe its just me but I wont buy anything but Ruger wheel guns.
I've wanted a Schofield type-revolver too.  I just can't see paying over a grand for one of those Italian guns. 
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 28, 2010, 01:27:30 AM
I have heard that top breaks are not as strong. The S&W #3 is offered in 38 but not 357, on the other hand it's also offered in 45 Colt, so I don't know.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: TAB on October 28, 2010, 02:47:42 AM
Ruger uses lost wax investment casting.  For the most part thier frames require very little machining. 

The stress on a top break is localized in the latch and the pin.  I'm pretty sure to get the strength you would need using the lost wax process you would have a very heavy gun.    I supose they could sub out the forging of frames, but thats a head ache.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 28, 2010, 11:53:49 AM
T/C uses the Lost wax method as well, there is no surface on the part that is not machined.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: MAUSERMAN on October 28, 2010, 12:31:31 PM
I agree with Dakotaranger I dont want to pay over a grand for a topbreak. Ruger has always made gun that are overbuilt, hell I ve seen Rugers take abuse that other firearms wouldnt stand up too. My biggest reason for wanting a topbreak is  I want to be different, everyone has some sort of colt clone and Im sick of it.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: fightingquaker13 on October 28, 2010, 12:36:30 PM
I agree with Dakotaranger I dont want to pay over a grand for a topbreak. Ruger has always made gun that are overbuilt, hell I ve seen Rugers take abuse that other firearms wouldnt stand up too. My biggest reason for wanting a topbreak is  I want to be different, everyone has some sort of colt clone and Im sick of it.
For a plinker, H@R did, or does, make a break barrel 9 shot .22 for not much money. Not the most accurate thing out there, but a lot of fun to shoot. You could even get speed loaders for it.
FQ13
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: TAB on October 28, 2010, 03:38:41 PM
T/C uses the Lost wax method as well, there is no surface on the part that is not machined.


thats TC, ruger does not machine every surface.    FWIW, I'm not a fan of cast parts, even if its lost wax.   
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: billt on October 28, 2010, 08:42:18 PM
Ruger has taken vacuum furnace, investment casting to levels that were not thought to be achievable just 10 years ago. As of just 2 years ago they had the only vacuum furnace capable of casting Titanium outside of Japan. The action they produce for the Model 77 bolt action is as strong, or stronger than any currently on the market, including those produced by Savage from solid bar stock. One of the biggest problems associated with this type of process was porosity. With modern vacuum investment casting furnaces that has all but been eliminated. In short, an investment cast action by Ruger, be it a #1 or Model 77, is as strong as any being currently produced.  Bill T.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: m25operator on October 29, 2010, 01:11:49 AM
Believe what you will, nobody wins with Ruger except in Ruger matches, able to take beefed up loads yes, frame stronger  than S&W no. Only frame I ever bent was a Ruger, and once you  take the trigger group out you will see why, very  weak, but I digress, ruger is a strong pistola,,,, especially the single actions, not so much the DA"S, most of us will never stress a pistol this far.























Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: billt on October 29, 2010, 08:29:57 AM
Believe what you will, nobody wins with Ruger except in Ruger matches.


Ruger doesn't build firearms for competition. They are built for rugged use by the masses. The Ruger Stainless Super Redhawk is stronger than most any other single action revolver with the possible exception of perhaps the Freedom Arms guns, and they cost triple and beyond that of a Ruger. The Ruger #1 falling block action has survived blow up tests involving filling .458 cases with Bullseye, pounding a 500 gr. bullet into the lands, and remotely firing it. Pressures went off the chart at 110,000 PSI. The gun was destroyed, but did not explode. The Ruger GP-100 is one of the strongest .357 Magnum revolvers currently being produced. I have well over a dozen Rugers and have never had one fail, trigger or otherwise. When you consider the cost it is all but impossible to purchase a Magnum handgun for the same price that offers as much.

If your going to compete you need to look elsewhere, just the same as if you want to drive in Formula 1 you don't go shopping for a new F-250. Ruger is one of the few firearm success stories in a sea of failures. There is a reason for that.  Bill T.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: Hazcat on October 29, 2010, 08:55:32 AM
A top break .357 would be the tits!
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: shooter32 on October 29, 2010, 09:09:47 AM
A top break .357 would be the tits!

+1
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: MikeBjerum on October 29, 2010, 09:12:38 AM
A top break .357 would be the tits!

Me wants one!!!
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: Hazcat on October 29, 2010, 11:45:56 AM
Think "Sheriffs" model (you know, one of the smaller pocket types) with say a 3 inch barrel.  5 or 6 shot.  PERFECT CCW gun!

If you could keep the weight around 20 oz (or less) it would be a sales leader.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: MikeBjerum on October 29, 2010, 11:56:18 AM
William Ruger always prided himself on the fact that they were gun people and didn't need focus groups to know what gun people wanted.  Makes me wonder what Ruger would be building today with the popularity of SASS and Cowboy Fast Draw if he were still at the helm .
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: MAUSERMAN on October 29, 2010, 01:30:02 PM
Haz what about a 5 shot 45acp with a 3 inch tube?
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: fightingquaker13 on October 29, 2010, 02:10:46 PM
Haz what about a 5 shot 45acp with a 3 inch tube?
Wouldn't you be stuck with half moon clips?
FQ13
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: billt on October 29, 2010, 02:13:05 PM
Makes me wonder what Ruger would be building today with the popularity of SASS and Cowboy Fast Draw if he were still at the helm .

Seems to me they've got that covered pretty well with the new model Vaquero line of single actions. They are not as stoutly built as the older, original model Vaquero's, but they are designed for SASS. They are beautiful in polished Stainless Steel with Mother Of Pearl grips.  Bill T.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: Hazcat on October 29, 2010, 04:40:39 PM
Haz what about a 5 shot 45acp with a 3 inch tube?

Gotta agree with FQ on this one.

Wouldn't you be stuck with half moon clips?
FQ13
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: PegLeg45 on October 29, 2010, 05:45:15 PM
Haz what about a 5 shot 45acp with a 3 inch tube?

Wouldn't you be stuck with half moon clips?
FQ13

Gotta agree with FQ on this one.


Ruger made a Blackhawk in .357/.38spl that also had an extra cylinder for using with 9mm. A friend of mine's dad has one. Ruger sells what they call a 'convertible' Blackhawk in .45 Colt that comes with a .45 ACP cylinder. The cylinder is custom made for the proper head spacing internally.
I read that Ruger doesn't make a factory convertible cylinder for a Vaquero, but Hamilton Bowen will make you one for a fee.  ;D  http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/default.htm



Quote
The versatile Blackhawk has also been adapted to fire the .30 Carbine, .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, and .45 Colt cartridges. Later, cylinders were made available to allow "Convertible" Blackhawks that could shoot .357 Magnum/.38 Special in one cylinder and 9mm Luger (9x19) in another. There are also .45 Long Colt Blackhawks that are convertible to .45 ACP by means of a second cylinder.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ruger_blackhawk_vaquero.htm

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=485794

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=197669561
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=197986925
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: fightingquaker13 on October 29, 2010, 06:03:03 PM
I had the .357/9mm. I just figured it worked because it was SA. There were no extractors, just the rod. I suppose you could do a DA without the extractor and just shake or individidually extract the shells. Bond arms derringers work like that in pistol calibers. Still, it seems to kind of defeat the purpose of a DA revolver.
FQ13
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: PegLeg45 on October 29, 2010, 06:06:44 PM
I had the .357/9mm. I just figured it worked because it was SA. There were no extractors, just the rod. I suppose you could do a DA without the extractor and just shake or individidually extract the shells. Bond arms derringers work like that in pistol calibers. Still, it seems to kind of defeat the purpose of a DA revolver.
FQ13

I was thinking strictly SA....I would think a top break (if factory made to do so) would work with the moons just like a DA with swing-out cylinder......but if it was a dedicated .45 ACP, then the cylinder could be factory made to head space without the clips.

Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: TAB on October 29, 2010, 06:32:06 PM
I bet you don't get that great of acccuracy with the 9mm

38/357 bore is ~ .357  9mm is.355
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: fightingquaker13 on October 29, 2010, 06:42:57 PM
I bet you don't get that great of acccuracy with the 9mm

38/357 bore is ~ .357  9mm is.355
Nope, I didn't anyway.  It was there as a sales tool, and a way to add versatility for plinking. It was pants compared to .38 or .357. I only shot a very few rounds through it.
FQ13
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: billt on October 29, 2010, 06:49:19 PM
The .22 WMR is much the same with a bore size of .002 greater than the .22 LR. Most Single Six Ruger Blackhawk Convertibles will not shoot .22 Magnums as accurately as the .22 LR cartridge because of this.  Bill T.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: fightingquaker13 on October 29, 2010, 06:57:46 PM
The .22 WMR is much the same with a bore size of .002 greater than the .22 LR. Most Single Six Ruger Blackhawk Convertibles will not shoot .22 Magnums as accurately as the .22 LR cartridge because of this.  Bill T.
Shouldn't it be the reverse? Bullet that matches the bore=more accuracy than bullet that is undersized?
FQ13
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 29, 2010, 07:39:45 PM
Wouldn't you be stuck with half moon clips?
FQ13

That is not a bad thing, think "Speed loader".

3 1/2 inch, 45 Colt under $850

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/cfTopBreak.tpl
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: bafsu92 on October 29, 2010, 07:51:39 PM
Gotta agree with FQ on this one.

If it was a 5 shot you'd actually have to use full moon clips since you can't really split a 5 shot cylinder in half. You could also use .45 auto-rim ammo but it's a bit hard to find and not really cost effective unless you're loading your own. I personally like revolvers with full moon clips though. I'm really wanting to get a S&W 327 nightguard with the 8 shot .357 moon clips.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: twyacht on October 29, 2010, 08:01:54 PM
Ruger and Winchester/Olin were just added to the Forbes Fortune 500 list. G&A issue, current.

S&W is running two shifts, as well as others, as their stocks increase.

Recession proof?

 ;D
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: bafsu92 on October 29, 2010, 08:09:00 PM
Not a top break and not in the under $1000 range but these are really cool: http://www.merwinhulbertco.com/index.php (http://www.merwinhulbertco.com/index.php)
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: billt on October 29, 2010, 08:14:20 PM
Shouldn't it be the reverse? Bullet that matches the bore=more accuracy than bullet that is undersized?
FQ13

22LR's run from .223 to .224 for the bullet diameter, and .22 Mag is .222. My mistake. I don't know what Ruger Single Six bores run, as I have not slugged one. I would guess they are made to accommodate the .22 LR's larger dia. This would make the Magnums less accurate, having to rattle down the larger bore. My Single Six shoots .22 Magnum rounds with acceptable accuracy, but not as accurately as good .22 LR target ammunition. If Ruger bores the barrels of the .357 / 9 MM Convertibles to accommodate the .357 dia .38 bullets, it would have the same effect on the .355 9 MM bullets, shooting them less accurately.   Bill T.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: seeker_two on October 29, 2010, 10:34:14 PM
Wouldn't you be stuck with half moon clips?
FQ13

And exactly how would half-moon clips made for a 5-shot revolver work out?.....  :-\
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 29, 2010, 11:53:20 PM
They make FULL moon clips as well, and they make them in 5 shot, I'm pretty sure the Company selling the guns sells them.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: Hazcat on October 30, 2010, 08:51:33 AM
I don't want any thing with moon clips as then you are stuck using them.  Can't single load if ya need / want to.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: Rastus on October 30, 2010, 08:55:04 AM
I don't want any thing with moon clips as then you are stuck using them.  Can't single load if ya need / want to.

Yeah I know about clips.  I've got my dad's old 16 gauge Mossberg bolt action shotgun.  It's so old I can't find a new clip to replace the broken one...

Heh, heh, heh, not to stir up any fur or anything around here....
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: seeker_two on October 30, 2010, 09:09:24 AM
I don't want any thing with moon clips as then you are stuck using them.  Can't single load if ya need / want to.

Sure you can...extraction would be a bit difficult if you didn't have a pen or a dowel on you...
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: m25operator on October 30, 2010, 07:11:58 PM
Well this is an interesting conversation, many good points and mis information, .22lr is .222, .22mag is .224", so the mag is not loose in the bore but tight, and not much ammo to choose from, many find one or the other works the best, especially in the model 63 Smith. Now as to SA's if your shooting factory ammo, it just gives you 2 choices, in 1 pistol, one more accurate than the other, But if you reload, with lead bullets, ask you bullet manufacturer to size the 9 mm in . 3565" works excellent in both, .38spl, .357 mag and 9mm. If you stick with factory, expect 2 different results, as far as accuracy. Why do we want dual caliber pistol, because it has dual uses, not that 1 won't work, but it gives us extra usage and flexiibility with one pistol. The Smith 947 did not use moon clips, but an interesting extraction process, that does not rely on clips, they are collectors items now.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: Hazcat on October 30, 2010, 08:06:51 PM
Wow!  That S&W 947 must be rare!  Couldn't find anything on it in a cpuple of minutes on search engines.  Got a link or can ya explain the extraction method?
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: billt on October 30, 2010, 08:10:19 PM
.22lr is .222

(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/22LongRiflepng.png)
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: PegLeg45 on October 30, 2010, 08:38:31 PM
Wow!  That S&W 947 must be rare!  Couldn't find anything on it in a cpuple of minutes on search engines.  Got a link or can ya explain the extraction method?

I can't find a link, but it was an oddball revolver that S&W made for 9mm. It had an odd extractor star that grabbed the rimless cases of the 9mm for extraction. Maybe M25 can go into better detail.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: blackwolfe on November 03, 2010, 08:22:24 PM
I think it might be a Smith and Wesson 547.  This auction is over in a little while, but I think it has a good picture of the extractor.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=197966071

If I remember correctly Ruger has made both the Seurity Six series (6 shot) and SP 101 (5 shot) revolvers in 9mm.  Hard to find, and not cheap.
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: CJS3 on November 03, 2010, 11:12:53 PM
They make FULL moon clips as well, and they make them in 5 shot, I'm pretty sure the Company selling the guns sells them.

Taurus called them "Star Clips" when they made them for their 5 shot 45ACP Tracker revolver. Two, four and six inch barrels. They made the pistol for two years and dicontinued them.

I've always thought that a top break revolver in 45 Auto Rim would be nice to have.

Oh wait, I've already got one;
Title: Re: Ruger
Post by: Big Frank on November 03, 2010, 11:49:45 PM
Nice Webley. Which model is it?