The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Fatman on November 28, 2010, 01:02:19 PM
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I give up trying to embed the little flash widget! Here's the link: http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=266369 (http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=266369)
there is a flash window near the bottom with the rankings.
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My city is in 4th place. Do I get a condolence prize?
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I've got a question that actually points out a flaw in this ranking:
Minneapolis is 48th and St. Paul is 102. In reality these two cities, plus a handful of others within the 494/694 loop (I-94 metro area) are really just one big city. To way that St. Paul is that much safer than Minneapolis ignores that some areas of Minneapolis are safer than others, and that some areas of St. Paul are actually as bad as the worst area in northern Minneapolis.
Anyway, even with the flaw, both these cities are in the bad zone!
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My city is in 4th place. Do I get a condolence prize?
You should at least get an ammo discount.
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the major city here is 72, lower then I actually though it would be.
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Actually TAB, Oakland is #5, Richmond #6, and Compton #8.
NH, Me, and Vt didn't make the list at all.
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Actually TAB, Oakland is #5, Richmond #6, and Compton #8.
NH, Me, and Vt didn't make the list at all.
I don't go to any of those places.
I was speaking of sacramento. which has some pretty nasty parts, no where near as bad as those mentioned, but still paces I don't go.
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I don't go to any of those places.
I was speaking of sacramento. which has some pretty nasty parts, no where near as bad as those mentioned, but still paces I don't go.
I think these lists' weight gets thrown off by the good parts of cities that have really bad parts. My city is at 391 and we have been named by the FBI as America's safest city for 6 years. However, we still have crime and we get spill over of crime from neighboring Santa Ana, which we know to have parts as bad as any large city in the Country. Somehow Santa Ana gets into the middle of the list and it has to be because of the quieter, safer parts of the city. Even LA and Long Beach are around the middle. I don't go near Compton, ever.
Tom, I don't know if your States up there have any cities big enough to be considered in the list and it seems like the smaller city folk have more manners, so I wouldn't be surprised that they'd probably be safer anyhow.
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My city is in 4th place. Do I get a condolence prize?
If you get condolences (or a discount on ammo) what do I get? My city's first.
Pecos
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I think these lists' weight gets thrown off by the good parts of cities that have really bad parts. My city is at 391 and we have been named by the FBI as America's safest city for 6 years. However, we still have crime and we get spill over of crime from neighboring Santa Ana, which we know to have parts as bad as any large city in the Country. Somehow Santa Ana gets into the middle of the list and it has to be because of the quieter, safer parts of the city. Even LA and Long Beach are around the middle. I don't go near Compton, ever.
Tom, I don't know if your States up there have any cities big enough to be considered in the list and it seems like the smaller city folk have more manners, so I wouldn't be surprised that they'd probably be safer anyhow.
Unlike Mass just to the South, which did have multiple entries, We get CCW basicly for the asking in NH and Me. Vt. doesn't even have to ask.
So much for "common sense gun laws" ::)
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I've got a question that actually points out a flaw in this ranking:
Minneapolis is 48th and St. Paul is 102. In reality these two cities, plus a handful of others within the 494/694 loop (I-94 metro area) are really just one big city. To way that St. Paul is that much safer than Minneapolis ignores that some areas of Minneapolis are safer than others, and that some areas of St. Paul are actually as bad as the worst area in northern Minneapolis.
Anyway, even with the flaw, both these cities are in the bad zone!
It's based on stats reported to the FBI, so those areas must report separately.
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Unlike Mass just to the South, which did have multiple entries, We get CCW basicly for the asking in NH and Me. Vt. doesn't even have to ask.
So much for "common sense gun laws" ::)
…and the CCW laws. Not a lot of sense on that in California either. It goes along with all of the other nonsense that is mistaken for common sense around here. You'd think that CA's socialist experiment, having been proved to be a failure, would have been called off at this point. I did get a couple more former-antis to buy guns in the past year.
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Amazingly, my state never even made the list! ;D
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It's based on stats reported to the FBI, so those areas must report separately.
I understand that, but what I was pointing out the flaw in "raw" number reports. Minneapolis and St. Paul are separate cities, but they are one metropolitan location. It would be better for a state to compile the numbers and then release them by regions or districts: Minneapolis/St. Paul would be better reported as Mpls. downtown, St. Paul downtown, Metro NW, Metro NE, Metro SW and Metro SE. To the outsider this would give a picture that residents and local law enforcement would recognize, and it would be truly informative to those outside.
Just my opinion on this type of ranking.
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All right! My home town is number 3! ;D :P
(Actually, my home town, Highland Park, is in the middle of Detroit and should be ranked higher. We had people from the worst part of Detroit, Cass Corridor, move in only to move back becase it was "safer" there. ::) )
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Caly, MI, and WI... Made QUITE a showing on that list! All hard core democratic states aren't they??? Hmmm.
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Caly, MI, and WI... Made QUITE a showing on that list! All hard core democratic states aren't they??? Hmmm.
Funny how that works isn't it .
Just to show it's not a coincidence, Mass, NY , and NJ are well represented as well.
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Caly, MI, and WI... Made QUITE a showing on that list! All hard core democratic states aren't they??? Hmmm.
also notice how its the areas with the most population that make it on the list? That has more to do with then anything else.
I bet if you also took all the citys on the list, and took them by % of the population thats below the poverty line, the list would be pretty close to the current one.
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White people are a minority in Flint and Detroit, and I'm guessing the rest of the top 5 is too. Why is it that when there's a black majority everything goes downhill? Is it drugs? Or poverty? Any ideas?
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Its not just blacks...
I think its really mind set.
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Its not just blacks...
I think its really mind set.
As much as I hate to agree with TAB, I think he may be right this time to a point.
NH is one of the 3 "Whitest" states in the nation, and while about 1/3 of our major crimes involve minorities, often up from Mass, involved in drug trafficking, the remainder is teens and 20 somethings, sometimes, but by no means always, involved in drugs.
Then of course we have the estranged wives who's last words are "I can get the house, car, and half your pay". but those are the exception.
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Any one notice Chicago, IL isn't on the list?? ???
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My viewpoint about the high level of poverty in cities is that it's a mix of multiple things.
None of these are in order.
First is the resentment from the riots of the 60's: In the 70's you had white people angry at blacks for "taking their home town area". The black people were tired of being arrested for anything and everything in the 50's and 60's, so they went extremely lax and gave huge leeways when it came to disorderly conducts and petty crimes. Even vandalism was ok in small amounts. It was akin to letting a pot that boiled over go into a slow rolling boil instead.
Second, is the lack of business owners in the area. Most of the white people moved their small businesses to the suburbs because that's where their "usual" customers moved to. Some stayed in the city, but it was a fraction of the amount. Most of the black people that moved in had blue color type jobs and didn't have the money to open up stores, shops, or resturants. There goes a huge tax base for the city.
Then you have the corrupt politicians. The mayors of the area would use the fear and anger of the new city populace to give them power and keep them in office. They would blatantly take money from funds that should go to various city programs (fire, police, schools, ect...) and compain that the "suburbs" and state gov officials were withholding needed money for the city. Given that just 10 years ago they had to give up their bus seat to a white person, it was an easy sell. And that doesn't take into account the even more common ineptitude of the city workers who had no formal training on the job and no collegre education. (What were the odds that a black teen in highschool in the late 50's and early 60's would believe they would be trying to run a city budget when they were in their 20's or 30's?)
Now add in the big drug expansion of the 70's. Hash, Heroine, and later, Cocaine did a ton of damage there. Plus the usual drinking problems adds into the mix. Partying leads to a lot of sex and a lot of unplanned babies with a huge question who the dad is.
Then you have the recession of the mid 70's thrown in. Inflation, unemployment, cheese lines. Depression and desperation. You still have the politicians screaming their racist agenda loudly. You still hear the "N" word across 8 mile with ease. You have no answers to solve the problem, but you got lots of people telling you who to blame. Thorw in the booze and drugs and you got angry people with limited judgment venting on impulse. Hitting women, their kids, and getting into fights. Sometimes, shootings.
Now here's an important thought. There is also a huge feeling that this area is the only "safe place" for them. The suburs are very white and seemingly dangerous. There was the feeling that if they walked in a suburban park or down a sidewalk by themselves, they were going to get hurt. The old "you don't belong" mentality.
So with that, you have this feeling of being trapped. even if you are in a big city. You only have that city to stay in. And then you get clanning or social subsections in the city as well. East side vs. west. street over street.
With all this going on, people finally get fed up and start having people arrested. Teens and young men in their twenties wind up in jail. Their friends or relatives who are smart, stay in school (which is losing money due to corruption) while the hot heads case more trouble and get killed or end up in jail as well. This leads to a good amount of kids being raised without a good father role model. (like Bill Cosby lamented.) The single mother tries (some don't) to raise the kid the best she can. Many get gov help, but some don't. Some work and some fall through the cracks. (My neighbor told me stories of how he ate rat as a kid because his family couldn't get food stamps.)
Now you have angrry kids causing trouble and running around. They get into drinking and drugs and partying and creating more kids.
Plus you have the whole "It's all about me!" viewpoint starting up.
And then you see a split happen. about a quarter to a third of the black kids stay in school, join the military, or get into college and try to make something of themselves. The white population stops being resentful and doesn't freak out when black people start moving into the suburbs. Both sides see eachother working to better themselves, and with a few bumps along the way, realize that they are both trying to acieve the same goal more or less.
The ones in the ghetto, though, the adults still belive the corrupt politicians, the racist remarks, and have given up. They have the same mentalitly of those dirt poor rural white people who make money by selling crystal meth.
It's the asme mentality just in a compressed area. That is why the crime is so high in urban areaas. It's the percentage confined.