The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: 2HOW on December 07, 2010, 01:53:17 PM
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http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=40414
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I really can't argue with anything there. I would say that a Bond Derringer .357(or choose your caliber) is just as small as that .22 though.
FQ13
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His argument for the .22 is bogus. If you have a couple of days to wait for a determined attacker to bleed out, be my guest. If your attacker has any kind of pain threshold (natural or artificial) and you do not hit a vital organ you will die before he does. That's like arguing that it is better to carry an icepick instead of a knife because it is easier to carry. Why bother if that is the most effort you are willing to put into it?
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I think he had too much kool aid
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His argument for the .22 is bogus. If you have a couple of days to wait for a determined attacker to bleed out, be my guest. If your attacker has any kind of pain threshold (natural or artificial) and you do not hit a vital organ you will die before he does. That's like arguing that it is better to carry an icepick instead of a knife because it is easier to carry. Why bother if that is the most effort you are willing to put into it?
Two reasons.
Size and recoil/weight.
As far as size, its bogus. As I said, you can get a Bond, or for that matter a Kel-tec .32 that is small enough not to make a bit of difference.
Weight and recoil though? My old man is getting, well old. I rembember my Granddad. He kept a Blackhawk by his bed. No way in hell he could have fired it. He'd have been better off with a .22. Looking down a muzzle and hearing a bang is a lot better than nothing. Only just, but still true. I won't argue for a .22, or a .32 for that matter (hell, I'm iffy on .380) as an SD caliber, but it does have a niche if you can't handle bigger.
FQ13
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I'll accept his reasoning and his list. My list would be different, but the reasons probably wouldn't change much. Except - I have enough substance to have no problem with "a two pound chunk of steel and seven rounds."
As far as some disagreements with the small calibers, my most common carry gun has become my lcp. It is easy to conceal when I go in posted buildings (no printing or worry about a coat gap that gives me away, and no issues with the "grope test" I experienced once). I know the full magazine of .380 may not knock someone down like one 230 grain .45 would, but it is handy. Small and with me is better than large on the dresser!
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So this writer has what he likes as concealed handguns. I was thinking more from a factual and historical basis.
What are actually the top ten guns carried?
What were the historically top ten guns?
I think we'd see a lot more revolvers on the list, both currently and historically
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My little furry alien -
Media today isn't about history or even long term. It is all about immediate and right now. History is best defined as "the day before we started this survey."
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My little furry alien -
Media today isn't about history or even long term. It is all about immediate and right now. History is best defined as "the day before we started this survey."
And most media isn't about "facts" either.
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I own #9 and #5. P3AT & M&P Full size .40.
Since it finally cooled off down here in S. Fl. I opt for a larger caliber carry. My S&W 6904 fits nicely also, as well as my M85 Ultra-Lite.
Heck, if it stays this "cool" down here, I'll get a shoulder rig for my 1911...
Pretty good list. But his opening remarks regarding generating "a reaction/emotion" is also why he wrote it.
from alf:
I think we'd see a lot more revolvers on the list, both currently and historically
+1 to that alf.
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He likes his tupperware, don't he? I will stick to my Kimber Ultra Carry 1911.
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So this writer has what he likes as concealed handguns. I was thinking more from a factual and historical basis.
What are actually the top ten guns carried?
What were the historically top ten guns?
I think we'd see a lot more revolvers on the list, both currently and historically
I was thinking that too, I'm not sure there is a list historically, but it would probably be broken down into 2 eras. Like pre 1970 and today.
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How can he include a Glock 22 or 23 and not have the G27?
And the G19 but not the G26? The G30 is a good CCW choice but ALL the small Glocks are good!
If you are going to CC a Glock 22 then you have plenty of space to carry anything that can be held in one hand.
Where's all the J frames? (or LCR)
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The list is so prejudiced to his preferences that it is barely worthy of comment.
Any one of us could come up with a completely different list that would be just as, if not more valid.
It really is no more than a place to start the debate.
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I think he had too much kool aid
I own two glocks and love them, but I kind of agree with you.
How can he include a Glock 22 or 23 and not have the G27?
And the G19 but not the G26? The G30 is a good CCW choice but ALL the small Glocks are good!
If you are going to CC a Glock 22 then you have plenty of space to carry anything that can be held in one hand.
I don't understand why he would include a full size glock and not a subcompact. I also don't really understand why he split up the 9mm and the .40. Why not give a frame size, his favorite caliber, and the other options with that frame. It would open up the list to more guns.
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I own two glocks and love them, but I kind of agree with you.
I don't understand why he would include a full size glock and not a subcompact. I also don't really understand why he split up the 9mm and the .40. Why not give a frame size, his favorite caliber, and the other options with that frame. It would open up the list to more guns.
Maybe for the same reason he writes for "Human Events" instead of "Guns and Ammo".
As a gun writer he is a great political pundit ;D
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I really like my Glock 19.
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I love both my Bond Arms Derrenger in .45LC/.410 and Tuarus M85 TI for concealed carry. The Bond is also the car travel gun. I've got a little holster (originally for a 1911) for it that will clip to the seatbelt or even attach to my belt.
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HOW THE H@#% are the usual suspects here NOT flipping out over this topic!?! :o ;D Where's that dink from a year ago??? ;D
No matter what you carry your making a comprimise.
.45 will stop'em in their tracks. But it's a big, heavy choice when compared to anything short of a 12 gauge! 9mm's prone to overpenetrate unless your shooting through windshields . But then a .22 isn't gonna cut the mustard when it's January in Michigan either. Revolvers don't drop cases (evidence) all over the ground, but don't hold as many rounds, and are slow to reload. Do you really need (3) 10 round magazines on you? (consider moving to a better neighberhood!)
Every situation will have a gun best suited for it. It's your job to have the right gun at the right time! Get to collecting! ;D
"A .22 IN MY POCKET BEATS YOUR .44 MAG IN YOUR SAFE ANY DAY, ALL DAY!"
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The best concealed carry handgun is the one (or more) that you'll carry every day. In my case it's a Kel-Tec P-11, 9 mm. And most days that's complimented with a Para-USA 1911 GI Expert. (No worries, my rotunditude could damn near conceal a Ma Deuce)
Like m58 and his LCP, my P-11 is VERY easy to conceal when entering places where personal responsibility is frowned upon.
Remember, two is one, one is none. And in a serious social interaction, why reload when you can just go to your other gun?
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HOW THE H@#% are the usual suspects here NOT flipping out over this topic!?! :o ;D Where's that dink from a year ago??? ;D
No matter what you carry your making a comprimise.
.45 will stop'em in their tracks. But it's a big, heavy choice when compared to anything short of a 12 gauge! 9mm's prone to overpenetrate unless your shooting through windshields . But then a .22 isn't gonna cut the mustard when it's January in Michigan either. Revolvers don't drop cases (evidence) all over the ground, but don't hold as many rounds, and are slow to reload. Do you really need (3) 10 round magazines on you? (consider moving to a better neighberhood!)
Every situation will have a gun best suited for it. It's your job to have the right gun at the right time! Get to collecting! ;D
"A .22 IN MY POCKET BEATS YOUR .44 MAG IN YOUR SAFE ANY DAY, ALL DAY!"
What about the 1911 in my belt ?
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You win! ;D
A fully loaded .45 pulls my pants down after a while unless I wear my belt real tight! :-[ But Big Brown truck should be comiing next week with what I'd ordered to get my G30 back where I want it so I can start carrying it again. Belly band, magazine extenders (just ones to give a bit more finger room, not added capacity ones), and factory steel sights (sick of the XS's!).
Should also be bringing a few goodies for my summer gun to (Ruger LCP)! ;D ;D ;D
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You win! ;D
A fully loaded .45 pulls my pants down after a while unless I wear my belt real tight! :-[ But Big Brown truck should be comiing next week with what I'd ordered to get my G30 back where I want it so I can start carrying it again. Belly band, magazine extenders (just ones to give a bit more finger room, not added capacity ones), and factory steel sights (sick of the XS's!).
Should also be bringing a few goodies for my summer gun to (Ruger LCP)! ;D ;D ;D
Pssst, suspenders ;D
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Not sure I can list only 10 CCW guns. but the ones I carry/have carried are in no particular order the following...
Colt 1911 .45a.c.p. Gov't Model
Detonics Combat Master .45 a.c.p
Star BKM 9m.m.
Colt Detective Special/Diamondback .38 Special
S&W model 19 .357 Mag 4 inch
S&W 342PD .38Special
Browning HiPower 9m.m
Bond.45 Colt& .357 Mag or American Derringer M-1 .357Mag Prefer the Bond
Keltec P3AT .380
Astra Constable .380
Ruger GP100 4 inch .357 Mag
Ruger SP101 .38 Special
Raven .25 acp Loaded with the hottest Hollow point? Glaser safety slug ammo made for it,if I destroyed a $75 gun but it saved my life it did it's job
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Not sure I can list only 10 CCW guns. but the ones I carry/have carried are in no particular order the following...
Colt 1911 .45a.c.p. Gov't Model
Detonics Combat Master .45 a.c.p
Star BKM 9m.m.
Colt Detective Special/Diamondback .38 Special
S&W model 19 .357 Mag 4 inch
S&W 342PD .38Special
Browning HiPower 9m.m
Bond.45 Colt& .357 Mag or American Derringer M-1 .357Mag Prefer the Bond
Keltec P3AT .380
Astra Constable .380
Ruger GP100 4 inch .357 Mag
Ruger SP101 .38 Special
Raven .25 acp Loaded with the hottest Hollow point? Glaser safety slug ammo made for it,if I destroyed a $75 gun but it saved my life it did it's job
I'd go with FMJ if Buffalo Bore made it ;D
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I'd go with FMJ if Buffalo Bore made it ;D
one of the great thing about BB is they test thier ammo in actual guns, not test barrels. So the numbers they give are real world. They are pretty much right on,( if not a little under) when it comes to thier numbers.
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I sold the Raven (or was it a Jennings??)a couple months ago to a co worker Don't matter same gun. I only carried it in real cold weather when I had to wear a heavy coat and then it was just to give me time to get to my primary gun. I still have some of the Glasers around somewhere as well as some solid copper hollowpoints that they used to sell as the "BEST" carry load for that caliber. If memory serves me they were outlawed for working as they were designed...Go figure ::)
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I disagree with his choice of the Glock 22 as a top 10. Good gun, but by no means belongs on a top 10 of CONCEALED CARRY guns. I know it can be done, but it's harder to conceal than a smaller gun, and considering the title and focus of the list, the 27 would have been more appropriate. And the NAA Mini? That's the last thing I grab before I whip out my knife and start playing Jim Bowie. Yeah it'll always be with you, but it's another that I wouldn't put on this list.
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I disagree with his choice of the Glock 22 as a top 10. Good gun, but by no means belongs on a top 10 of CONCEALED CARRY guns. I know it can be done, but it's harder to conceal than a smaller gun, and considering the title and focus of the list, the 27 would have been more appropriate. And the NAA Mini? That's the last thing I grab before I whip out my knife and start playing Jim Bowie. Yeah it'll always be with you, but it's another that I wouldn't put on this list.
Everybody has their quirks Walter. This guy did a good thing. He got a useful debate going. An old prof of mine said this "Its better to ask an interesting questuion than to have the right answer to a boring one". He was right. A post like that makes us think, consider, and argue constructively. What more can you ask?
FQ13
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Everybody has their quirks Walter. This guy did a good thing. He got a useful debate going. An old prof of mine said this "Its better to ask an interesting questuion than to have the right answer to a boring one". He was right. A post like that makes us think, consider, and argue constructively. What more can you ask?
FQ13
More money and a better class of friends ? ;D
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Depends on who you ask and what their experience is. My list would be somewhat different, based on my 40+ years in the firearms community.
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With the exception of the Keltek/LCP I have never owned anything on his list, however my choices generally fall in the same size category. I regularly carry a Keltek P-11 in an ankle holster, a Ruger LCP in an empty pocket and on rare occasions I substitute a .40 Walther P99 in an IWB for the ankle gun. A Bond feels like too much bulk and weight for just two shots even if they are 410 and an NAA in .22rimfire is hard enough to hang on to with that tiny grip without stepping up to a magnum round. Lately I have considered getting a compact Glock to replace my ankle gun and some type of wheel gun for waist or pocket carry. I think there is no perfect carry gun, we all use what works for each individual.
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Number one in my book is the Taurus JUDGE SSR Revolver. Get a good leather "high on the hip" holster and no one will know you are carring a .45 Long Colt /. 410 shotgun Cannon. I carry mine all the time and I have complete comfort and it's suprisingly light PLUS best of all, if your round is the .410 personal defense (Winchester PDX) round you can be blind and still hit the target. (ie: your basic S.O.B. Criminal or a chargeing Wild Boar while hunting for that perfect 12 point Buck)
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My new Glock 29 10mm works for me. Hornady 180gr hollow points make me feel warm and fuzzy at night.
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A bizzare list in my opinion. I have 3 primary pistols that I carry on a regular basis, only one of which was on his list. To each his own, I guess.
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Nice article and choices. Love the koolaide. Smith and Wesson M&P's are pretty sweet also. I will stick with my G30SF.