The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: tombogan03884 on January 16, 2011, 10:19:10 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110117/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_haiti_ex_dictator_returns
By JACOB KUSHNER, Associated Press Jacob Kushner, Associated Press – 31 mins ago
PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti – Former Haitian dictator Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier returned Sunday to Haiti nearly 25 years after a popular uprising against his brutal dictatorship forced him into exile, a surprising and perplexing move that comes as his country struggles with a political crisis and the stalled effort to recover from last year's earthquake.
Duvalier, part of a father-and-son dynasty that presided over one of the darkest chapters in Haitian history, arrived on an Air France jet in a jacket and tie to hugs from supporters at the Port-au-Prince airport. He was calm as he was led into the immigration office. He left the airport without making a statement to journalists, waving to a crowd of more than 200 supporters as he got into an SUV.
"He is happy to be back in this country, back in his home," said Mona Beruaveau, a candidate for Senate in a Duvalierist party who spoke to the former dictator inside the immigration office. "He is tired after a long trip."
Beruaveau said he would give a news conference on Monday.
Later, Duvalier appeared on a balcony of the Karibe Hotel and waved to supporters and journalists outside. All he said was "tomorrow, tomorrow," apparently in reference to the news conference.
Veronique Roy, his longtime companion, spoke briefly to reporters at the hotel and said he will stay in the country for three days. Asked why now, she said '"Why not?"
In the fall of 2007, President Rene Preval told reporters that Duvalier could return to Haiti but would face justice for the deaths of thousands of people and the theft of millions of dollars.
It was not immediately clear why the former dictator chose this tumultuous moment to return to Haiti. There were no immediate protests in reaction to his return and very few people were even aware that the former dictator had come back to Haiti, where more than 1 million people are living in crowded, squalid tent encampments after their homes were destroyed from the Jan. 12, 2010, earthquake. Half the people in the country are younger than 21, and weren't alive during Duvalier's rule.
At one of those camps, there was some enthusiasm for Duvalier's return.
"I don't know much about Jean-Claude Duvalier but I've heard he did good things for the country," said 34-year-old Joel Pierre. "I hope he will do good things again."
Nearby, 42-year-old Marline Joseph, living in the camp with her three kids, was also somewhat hopeful. "He's here, that's good. Now, what is he going to do for the country."
Haitians danced in the streets to celebrate the overthrow of Duvalier back in 1986, heckling the tubby, boyish tyrant as he drove to the airport and was flown into exile in France. Most Haitians hoped the rapacious strongman had left for good, closing a dark chapter of terror and repression that began under his late father, Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier in 1957.
But a handful of loyalists have been campaigning to bring Duvalier home from exile in France, launching a foundation to improve the dictatorship's image and reviving Baby Doc's political party in the hopes that one day he can return to power democratically.
"We want him to be president because we don't trust anyone in this election. He did bad things but since he left we have not had stability. We have more people without jobs, without homes," said Haiti Belizaire, a 47-year-old Duvalier supporter in the crowd outside the airport.
Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive said that if Duvalier is involved in any political activities he is not aware of them.
"He is a Haitian and, as such, is free to return home," the prime minister said in an e-mail to The Associated Press. Asked if Duvalier's presence could destablize the country, he said "Until now, there's no reason to believe that."
The Duvaliers tortured and killed their political opponents, ruling in an atmosphere of fear and repression ensured by the bloody Tonton Macoute, their feared secret police force.
The end of his reign was followed by a period known as deshoukaj or "uprooting" in which Haitians carried out reprisals against Macoutes and regime loyalists, tearing their houses to the ground.
Duvalier has been accused of pilfering millions of dollars from public funds and spiriting them out of the country to Swiss banks, though he denies stealing from Haiti.
Dictators have long favored hiding their cash in the European nation due to its banking secrecy rules, but last year, lawmakers there approved a bill making it easier to seize ill-gotten funds.
Duvalier's return Sunday comes as the country struggles to work through a dire political crisis following the problematic Nov. 28 first-round presidential election.
Three candidates want to go onto a second round. The Organization of American States sent in a team of experts to resolve the deadlock, recommending that Preval's candidate be excluded. Preval was reportedly not pleased with the report. OAS Secretary-General Jose Miguel Insulza was scheduled to be in Port-au-Prince to meet with Preval on Monday.
The news floored Haiti experts and has thrown the country's entire political situation into question. Immediately speculation began about what other exiled leaders might return next.
"I was shocked when I heard the news and I am still wondering what is the next step, what Preval will say and obviously what (exiled former President Jean-Bertrand) Aristide will be doing," said Robert Fatton, a Haitian-born history professor at the University of Virginia and author of "The Roots of Haitian Despotism."
"If Jean-Claude is back in the country I assume Aristide will be trying to get back as quickly as possible."
Fatton wondered what role the French government played in Duvalier's return, saying they would have had to have been aware that the ex-despot was boarding an Air France jet to go home.
In France, the deputy spokeswoman for the Foreign Ministry said she had seen news of Duvalier's arrival in Haiti, but had "no information" about the matter and could not confirm that he'd left France. The spokeswoman did not give her name, in accordance with ministry policy.
Author Amy Wilentz, whose book "The Rainy Season" is a definitive account of the aftermath of Duvalier's exile and Aristide's rise, said: "This is not the right moment for such upheaval."
"Let's not forget what Duvalierism was: prison camps, torture, arbitrary arrest, extrajudicial killings, persecution of the opposition," she wrote in an e-mail to AP. And, she added, "If Haitian authorities allow Duvalier to return, can they thwart exiled President Aristide's desire to come back to the country?"
"Haitians need a steady hand to guide them through the earthquake recovery, not the ministrations of a scion of dictatorship."
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Associated Press writers Jonathan M. Katz in Brooklyn, New York, Ben Fox in San Juan, Puerto Rico and Jenny Barchfield in Paris contributed to this report.
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"Haitians need a steady handdictatorship, to guide them through the earthquake recovery, not the ministrations of a scion of dictatorship steady hand."
There,....all fixed.
"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
George Bernard Shaw
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That island has been independent almost as long as we have, and has yet to produce a stable governing system (defined as three smooth transitions of power). Duvalier is not the answer. We tolerated him during the Cold War, but they (father and son) were some of the biggest kleptocrats going. I have no idea how to fix Haiti. As far as I am concerned US FP should have one goal, reducing, hopefully to zero, the number of Haitin refugees hitting US shores. Haitins are already the largest immigrant group in my county (oh, joy). Let me say, 1 is too many. It is a screwed up place with a screwed up culture. Crime, violence, (merited) distrust of authority, illiteracy, a nodding acquaitence with birth control, a high rate of HIV and TB, and a strongly overdeveloped sense of entitlement. Due to our immigration laws, once they are here, they send for the family. >:( I don't care who runs the place, just find someone who will do it competantly and enforce our damn immigration laws. Hell, we can't even deport them now (including criminals!) because the bleeding hearst say its inhumane after the earth quake. :( As far as I'm concerned we should bring the French back. They deserve each other.
FQ13
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They say from the air that the border between the Dominican Republic and Haiti is as apparent as night and day - lush and green on the DR side, dirt brown on the Haiti side.
A ministry team just returned from Haiti Friday where they helped rebuild a seminary. At night they had to hit the deck more than once due to the automatic weapons fire (obviously supplied from Florida gun shops >:( ).
There are solutions, and Baby Doc ain't one of them but obviously he wants to give it another go. It will take a while, just like it took 40 years for the Israelites to be purified in the desert. But it can be done. Getting rid of voodoo is the starting point.
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Now that Baby Doc is off of French soil, can we let the CIA do some "field training" and finally take care of this matter?.....
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The Duvalier's may have been brutal thieving dictators, but the period of their rule was pretty much the "golden age" of Haiti. They maintained the most stable era of the country's history . Were the Ton-Ton Macuot so bad compared to the way the country has "flourished" ( ::) ) under democracy ?
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Now that Baby Doc is off of French soil, can we let the CIA do some "field training" and finally take care of this matter?.....
You forget, he was "our" boy in the 1980s. I read some Congressional committee testimony from then federal prosecutor Guiliani (under Reagan) testifying to Congress that Haiti was not a dictatorship and the refugees were were not legitimately seeking political asylum. ::) You lie down with dogs, you get fleas. This A-hole was propped up by us for years. He knows where the bodies are buried. Hell, I read this testimony when flipping through hearing transcripts in a university library just because the title about Florida and refugees sounded interesting. No Wikileaks required. He's got us by the balls if he wants to.
FQ13
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You forget, he was "our" boy in the 1980s. I read some Congressional committee testimony from then federal prosecutor Guiliani (under Reagan) testifying to Congress that Haiti was not a dictatorship and the refugees were were not legitimately seeking political asylum. ::) You lie down with dogs, you get fleas. This A-hole was propped up by us for years. He knows where the bodies are buried. Hell, I read this testimony when flipping through hearing transcripts in a university library just because the title about Florida and refugees sounded interesting. No Wikileaks required. He's got us by the balls if he wants to.
FQ13
All the more reason to "end" his possible career restart..... ;)
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All the more reason to "end" his possible career restart..... ;)
To (mis)quote Al Capone (who, btw, was born on this date a long friggin time ago), "Two men can keep a secret if one of them is dead."
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If these tools of Soro's are against him then it means we should probably support him.
More at link
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110117/wl_nm/us_haiti_duvalier
By Joseph Guyler Delva and Allyn Gaestel Joseph Guyler Delva And Allyn Gaestel – 1 hr 30 mins ago
PORT-AU-PRINCE (Reuters) – Human rights groups on Monday clamored for Haiti to arrest and prosecute former Haitian dictator Jean-Claude Duvalier for crimes against humanity after his surprise return from 25 years in exile.
Analysts said the unexpected arrival in Port-au-Prince on Sunday of "Baby Doc" Duvalier, who had fled his homeland in 1986 to escape a popular revolt, could only complicate the political uncertainty in earthquake-battered Haiti.
Tensions are already high following chaotic and inconclusive November 28 elections.
"Duvalier's return to Haiti should be for one purpose only: to face justice," Jose Miguel Vivanco, Americas director of U.S.-based Human Rights Watch, said in a statement.
Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International said Duvalier, 59, should be brought to trial for the killings and torture of thousands of opponents at the hands of the thuggish Tonton Macoutes militia during his 15 years in power.
"The widespread and systematic human rights violations committed in Haiti during Duvalier's rule amount to crimes against humanity," said Javier Zuniga, special advisor at Amnesty International. "Haiti is under the obligation to prosecute him and anyone else responsible for such crimes."
Several hundred supporters were at Port-au-Prince airport on Sunday to greet Duvalier, who arrived on an Air France flight from Paris with his French wife, Veronique Roy.
As a chubby playboy and the world's youngest head of state at 19, Duvalier assumed power in Haiti in 1971 on the death of his father, the feared dictator Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier. "Baby Doc" continued the Duvalier dynasty, which inspired fear and loathing among many in Haiti, until going into exile in France in 1986.
Duvalier said he had returned to show solidarity to the people of Haiti, still the poorest state in the Western Hemisphere, which is grappling with a cholera epidemic and struggling to recover from a devastating 2010 earthquake. He said he wanted to participate in Haiti's "rebirth."
Analysts said his return could not come at a worse time for Haiti, which is on edge after confused legislative and presidential elections in November. Preliminary voting results have triggered fraud allegations and violent street protests.
"As if Haiti's politics weren't turbulent enough already, the presence of the former dictator is likely to arouse strong passions across the political spectrum," said Michael Shifter, president of the Washington-based Inter-American Dialogue.
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Baby Doc, is a Saddam wannabe, murder political opponents, Al Capone in charge policy, with a baseball bat and armed thug militia. Papa Doc was just as bad. Apple don't fall far from the tree..... he left for France (go figure), with how many millions of dollars? Either way, Haiti is our geographic Somalia.
I thought all the millions of dollars donated by mostly Americans,(still being squandered), and especially with Bill Clinton as ambassador,
all this would be over by now... ::)
They have nothing, offer nothing, contribute nothing, build nothing, manufacture nothing, the world wants. It takes a dictator rule a bunch of uneducated peasants.
Preferably, not a corrupt former dictator, but than I digress... :P
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Baby Doc, is a Saddam wannabe, murder political opponents, Al Capone in charge policy, with a baseball bat and armed thug militia. Papa Doc was just as bad. Apple don't fall far from the tree..... he left for France (go figure), with how many millions of dollars? Either way, Haiti is our geographic Somalia.
I thought all the millions of dollars donated by mostly Americans,(still being squandered), and especially with Bill Clinton as ambassador,
all this would be over by now... ::)
They have nothing, offer nothing, contribute nothing, build nothing, manufacture nothing, the world wants. It takes a dictator rule a bunch of uneducated peasants.
Preferably, not a corrupt former dictator, but than I digress... :P
You mean like that other 3rd world sh!thole
New Orleans ;D
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Haiti is a total lost cause regardless of who leads or runs it. Much like every other black run, black populated country on this planet, it always has been, is now, and always will be a corrupt, impoverished, disease ridden stink hole. That is not a "racist" statement, but rather one of fact. Everywhere they, (blacks), populate and rule in any great numbers they destroy prosperity wherever it exists. As was pointed out, one has to look no further than New Orleans in this country, or else Detroit to see what can happen.
The best and most recent example you have in the world is South Africa. When De Klerk ran it the country was the economic powerhouse of Africa. When Nelson Mandela took over it was destroyed in only months. The crime rate soared, property values plummeted, businesses along with invested money left. Now it's been reduced to yet another crime ridden, black governed African stink hole, where 70% of the black women residents are HIV positive. I'm sorry, but I have to call it like I see it, and this is plainly visible all over the world. Haiti is just the best example of it. It was worthless before the earthquake hit.
I'm sick and tired of hearing about these people and what they "need". It never ends, and it never will. This is what happens when a country sits and does nothing to help itself, and becomes totally reliant on others to do everything for them. All they can do is create blame and excuses. I'm sick of hearing about it and them. The country is unfixable until the people who live there learn how to become productive and help their own cause. That will NEVER happen. Bill Clinton and all the money in the world won't help. We've been spoon feeding that $h!thole for decades, and it's worse now than it's ever been. Until tomorrow when it will be worse. Bill T.
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Haiti is just the best closest example of it.
But really, how much difference is there between Haiti or SA and any progressive run white govenrment? Other than the speed of the fall.
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But really, how much difference is there between Haiti or SA and any progressive run white govenrment? Other than the speed of the fall.
You are giving the politically correct reply, and I understand that. Haiti is black run and always has been. That is why I made that direct comparison. If there is a black run government of ANY type, progressive, conservative, or otherwise, where prosperity is, or has been achieved, let alone maintained, I would like to know about it so I could stand corrected. Bill T.
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I did not mean it that way. I meant, have you ever seen a conservative black government?
They have all been progressive to dictatorships IFAIK. Only conservative blacks I can think of are/were Christian.
They all follow a pattern of corruption, greed, and personal power at the expense of the people. kind of like our congress today.
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They say from the air that the border between the Dominican Republic and Haiti is as apparent as night and day - lush and green on the DR side, dirt brown on the Haiti side.
Some years back, I delivered a modified crew boat from Florida to Dominican Republic. From the sea, the border between the two countries is as obvious as it is from the air. On the Haitian side, not a blade of grass remains. The Haitians have used up everything that will burn as fuel. And the stripped land is visible for many miles out to sea. On the DR side, the jungle remains rich and lush, and when we landed I found that the people are proud of that fact that theirs is a tropical paradise. The DR is not a rich country, and the government is certainly a bastion of corruption, but the people are willing to work, and they seem to recognize that indiscriminate sex DOES have consequences. Of course, their history is Spanish, not French. That may account for some of the difference. I think voo-doo has also played a part in the Haitian misery. The old tales suggest that the Haitians sold themselves to the devil to rid themselves of the French. On the surface, it would seem like a fair deal (LOL)--but history would suggest otherwise.
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I did not mean it that way. I meant, have you ever seen a conservative black government?
They have all been progressive to dictatorships IFAIK. Only conservative blacks I can think of are/were Christian.
They all follow a pattern of corruption, greed, and personal power at the expense of the people. kind of like our congress today.
What you're saying is true. They will never change. If they, (the blacks), could, they would have by now. Yes, there are white dictatorships, and progressive governments as well. One only has to look at Europe. But there is prosperity, even in some of the more socialistic European governments. They live with pride and cleanliness, and it shows. But the same cannot be said in the black run, corrupt dictatorships throughout the world. Haiti, Trinidad, Tobago, most every country in Africa, and on and on. All are violent, poverty stricken, corrupt, filthy, impoverished, stink holes. All of them, regardless of how much foreign intervention or money is poured into them. All are a lost cause. In short there is a very visible pattern. No one mentions it because you'll be called "racist" if you do. As far as I'm concerned that word has lost most all of it's meaning. Bill T.
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But really, how much difference is there between Haiti or SA and any progressive run white govenrment? Other than the speed of the fall.
Your examples prove Bill's point. South Africa was a prosperous self reliant nation under white rule, in spite of UN sanctions. Since the Blacks took over the only people who move there are from Zimbabwe fleeing the 1,000% inflation. (Which used to be the prosperous White ruled nation of Rhodesia ). No nation on earth has maintained a history of peace, equality, and prosperity under black rule.
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They all follow a pattern of corruption, greed, and personal power at the expense of the people. kind of like our congress today.
The difference is our Congress is financially supported by the people, along with the money they earn and the taxes we all pay. The people of Haiti cannot even support themselves without constant handouts, let alone a corrupt government. The only way the Haitian government can sustain itself is by stealing money from foreign countries like the United States who are stupid enough to give it to them, and actually think they will use it for the betterment of the people. Bill T.
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bring back papa doc, and hussien and all the rest, at least we know what we got. Our people are trying to rule the whole fkn world, its BS . Its all about money and blood, our young peoples blood. PLAIN AN SIMPLE.
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Our people are trying to rule the whole fkn world, its BS.
I don't care who we rule. I'm just sick and tired of supporting the worthless bastards with our tax dollars! Bill T.
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Baby Doc, is being held under hotel arrest and been charged with everything BUT human rights violations.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cb_haiti_ex_dictator_returns
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Baby Doc, is being held under hotel arrest and been charged with everything BUT human rights violations.
Another idiot that needs a bullet in his head. Bill T.
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The difference is our Congress is financially supported by the people, along with the money they earn and the taxes we all pay. The people of Haiti cannot even support themselves without constant handouts, let alone a corrupt government. The only way the Haitian government can sustain itself is by stealing money from foreign countries like the United States who are stupid enough to give it to them, and actually think they will use it for the betterment of the people. Bill T.
So, HOW is that different from our congress and welfare state?
I am not saying Haiti is OK, I am saying we aren't far behind.
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I am not saying Haiti is OK, I am saying we aren't far behind.
I'm quite certain we've got a long way to go to catch Haiti from a country standpoint. Now, New Orleans and Detroit I won't give you much of an argument on. However we all know why that is. Bill T.
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Bill, We are no different than Haiti. Not one bit. We owe our entire GDP for the next several years to China.
Wake up dude, them greenbacks ain't nothing but scratchy toilet paper.
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Bill, We are no different than Haiti. Not one bit. We owe our entire GDP for the next several years to China.
And if we don't pay, what will they do, repossess us? Bill T.
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And if we don't pay, what will they do, repossess us? Bill T.
Collapse our economy, let the riots, and food shortages leave the masses crying "Make it stop, make it better!" Than in a joint move,
The most dangerous words spoken, will come from China, AND our own gov't:
"We're from the gov't, and how can we help?"
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Collapse our economy.
China is the economy that would then collapse, not ours. We are the borrower, China the lender. When the borrower cannot pay, the lender is out of luck, unless of course they can repossess the property that the loan was used to purchase. That cannot happen with a country as we found out, and have been finding out since we've been giving money to most every country on the planet at one time or another since the dawn of time. We took the gas pipe on countless foreign loans. Perhaps now it's China's turn. We never seemed to wise up. Perhaps they will, that is assuming their economy can stand it. From what is being reported, it can't. So as we speak they should be more worried about our ability to pay, more than we should about paying it. If you really think about it, the more we owe China, the tighter we put their nuts in the financial vise. Possession is , and always has been 9/10ths of the law. Bill T.
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China is the economy that would then collapse, not ours. We are the borrower, China the lender. When the borrower cannot pay, the lender is out of luck, unless of course they can repossess the property that the loan was used to purchase. That cannot happen with a country as we found out, and have been finding out since we've been giving money to most every country on the planet at one time or another since the dawn of time. We took the gas pipe on countless foreign loans. Perhaps now it's China's turn. We never seemed to wise up. Perhaps they will, that is assuming their economy can stand it. From what is being reported, it can't. So as we speak they should be more worried about our ability to pay, more than we should about paying it. If you really think about it, the more we owe China, the tighter we put their nuts in the financial vise. Bill T.
You're mostly right. Their economy is export driven. We use their money to buy their goods. They profit on the sales plus the interest. If we default, they are screwed. But so are we, as the dollar would become the Peso and we would lose all foriegn investment in our capital markets and securities.
FQ13
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You're mostly right. Their economy is export driven. We use their money to buy their goods. They profit on the sales plus the interest. If we default, they are screwed. But so are we, as the dollar would become the Peso and we would lose all foriegn investment in our capital markets and securities.
FQ13
I don't think so, and here is why. Our trump card is that if we go down, the whole free world goes down with us. Everyone. For that reason that will never happen. The whole European Union, China, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, along with the rest of the Pacific Rim depends on the success or failure of our economy and monitary system. If our dollar collapses, it will be a domino effect throughout every foreign market world wide. As much as China wants to make their money the "New World Currency", and Europe beats the drum over the Euro, the Dollar is king, and always will be. They know it, just like the dems know Hussein Care is a turd. They just can't, and won't admit it. They don't have to.
All we have to do to totally sink China is have Geithner and Hussein call China's Economic Minister and say, "Sorry pal, but we're a little short this month, and probably next". It would send their entire economy into a death spiral they would not be able to recover from. Their whole economy is in it's infancy as a productive industrialized nation. About all they have going for them at the moment is a cheap, slave labor force that translates into a lot of cheap goods, and a currency they couldn't possibly devalue any further. Most of these goods we buy. Hell, if Harbor Freight closed their doors, who would pick up the slack and buy all of that crap? Europe? Doubtful. The Euro is in worse shape than the dollar, their unemployment rate is higher, and their people have even less disposable income than the broke idiot's who live here.
No matter how you cut the cake, they are walking a longer, higher, more dangerous financial tightrope than we are. Bill T.
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I don't think so, and here is why. Our trump card is that if we go down, the whole free world goes down with us. Everyone. For that reason that will never happen. The whole European Union, China, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, along with the rest of the Pacific Rim depends on the success or failure of our economy and monitary system. If our dollar collapses, it will be a domino effect throughout every foreign market world wide. As much as China wants to make their money the "New World Currency", and Europe beats the drum over the Euro, the Dollar is king, and always will be. They know it, just like the dems know Hussein Care is a turd. They just can't, and won't admit it. They don't have to.
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No matter how you cut the cake, they are walking a longer, higher, more dangerous financial tightrope than we are. Bill T.
And that is why they are trying to get the dollar out of the singular world currency. They may be on a higher tightrope, but they have their eyes open.
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And that is why they are trying to get the dollar out of the singular world currency. They may be on a higher tightrope, but they have their eyes open.
They will never succeed in that endeavor. China is overly ambitious in relationship to their abilities. Their industrial base is growing, but they are still a very much oppressed people. They all earn $h!t compared to the rest of the world, which is the main reason their goods are so cheap at the moment. That won't last. It didn't with Japan in the 50's and 60's, and it won't with China very much longer. Over a billion pissed off people are a lot to deal with. Don't worry, China has their hands full. They are simply ignoring it, and or are playing it down. That won't last. Bill T.
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Bill, You are overlooking the triple digit inflation that would hit the $ . Think Germany after WWI or Zimbabwe.
$16,000.00 for a loaf of bread.
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Bill, You are overlooking the triple digit inflation that would hit the $ . Think Germany after WWI or Zimbabwe.
$16,000.00 for a loaf of bread.
That too would be worldwide. ¥234,000,000,000,000.00 Yen for a can of pop. Bill T.
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This is like when you were so certain "The lame duck Congress won't do that" . ::)
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Bill I can get behind your argument, except when I look at my own experience. Especially with groceries. A few years ago Wyo did away with sales tax on grocery items. Thus saving me 5% that I was paying in tax. When I still had to pay tax on my food I was averaging about $60 per week at the store, and eating pretty good. Today I'm cutting every corner I can at the grocery store, and not eating near as good as I was, but my food bill is close to $150 a week.
The dollar is losing value and that is the worst place that I see it. Granted I don't see that kind of inflation in other areas, but I can account for that. First, I have personally cut back my entertainment budget, and second, in order to keep many products moving, and thus ensuring cash flow. Retailers and manufacturers are HAVING to keep the price down, even if it means lowering profit or in some cases taking a small loss.
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Both Moody's and Standard and Poor's are talking about possibly down grading the US triple A credit rating we have had since 1917 if the country does not cut spending and increase taxes.
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This is like when you were so certain "The lame duck Congress won't do that" . ::)
What did they do? Bill T.
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Both Moody's and Standard and Poor's are talking about possibly down grading the US triple A credit rating we have had since 1917 if the country does not cut spending and increase taxes.
Look, I'm not saying all is rosy. What I am saying is that if everything goes to hell, China has just as much, if not more to lose than we do. Their ass is in the ringer with everyone else. No question we have to quit spending so much. What I get sick of hearing is how China "owns" us. They loaned us money. Big deal. It will more than likely get paid back with inflated dollars. This, at least to some degree, is to our advantage, much like a home mortgage helps the buyer over time. A good portion of the interest is eaten up with inflation.
If you want to worry about China, worry about it from a military standpoint. Not now, but in another 10 or 15 years they are going to be a real threat. To us and everyone else. They are a ruthless people. We are pussy's. Especially under the dems. Our weakness mentally scares me more than China. Weapons are worthless if you're adversary knows you won't use them. Hussein won't. It's why they all love him. Bill T.
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Bill I can get behind your argument, except when I look at my own experience. Especially with groceries. A few years ago Wyo did away with sales tax on grocery items. Thus saving me 5% that I was paying in tax. When I still had to pay tax on my food I was averaging about $60 per week at the store, and eating pretty good. Today I'm cutting every corner I can at the grocery store, and not eating near as good as I was, but my food bill is close to $150 a week.
The dollar is losing value and that is the worst place that I see it. Granted I don't see that kind of inflation in other areas, but I can account for that. First, I have personally cut back my entertainment budget, and second, in order to keep many products moving, and thus ensuring cash flow. Retailers and manufacturers are HAVING to keep the price down, even if it means lowering profit or in some cases taking a small loss.
While some items like groceries and gas have gone up, others like electronics and real estate have plummeted. It costs less to buy a printer for your computer today, than it does to replace the ink cartridges. Digital cameras, big screen TV's, and a ton of other things have gotten cheaper across the board. New car prices, along with the financing to buy them, are a tremendous deal compared to just a couple of years ago.
Everyone is talking about how Hussein Care is going to bankrupt the nation. It will never happen. You've got 26 states as we speak suing the federal government over it. It will take a Supreme Court decision just to judge the Constitutionality of it. 70% of the people hate it, and they are currently trying to repeal it. They won't now, but in 2 years?? This whole thing is like an airplane made out of lead. I don't see it going anywhere, now or anytime soon. I've been hearing how "Hyper Inflation" is coming! So is the asteroid. We keep predicting and waiting for all of this gloom and doom. China, Hussein Care, $7.00 gasoline, food shortages, riots, economic collapse, and on and on. When is all of this going to arrive?
Hussein has all but destroyed the dems in just 2 years. Everyone thought we'd all be socialists by now with no guns. He's been nothing but a turd in the punch bowl. Where is all of this "Immigration Reform"? Still sitting on the stove with the burner off. With the Republicans in the House it is yet another thing that is on the fast track to nowhere. I don't know about you, but I'm taking a breather from all of this worry. Chances are whatever they predict will happen, won't happen. That is how it's been throughout history. Tomorrow I'm changing the thermostat in my truck, then I'm going shooting. I'm sure all of this disaster will still be waiting when I get back. Bill T.
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China has diversified to OTHER countries,....."The one with the gold",.....if we as consumers of Chinese goods, slap tariffs, trade embargoes, aka play hardball, they call their debt, which we can't pay back.
Trade war ensues.....
They are building two coal plants a WEEK. When did we last build a refinery, nuclear plant, dam, coal plant.....They have covered they're collective "borg" ass, and are not our friend or ally.
China has always use "time" as their ally.
We have run out of other people's money, and our debt cannot sustain our spending. While they smile......
Remember the commercial? Watch AGAIN!!!!
Tell me I'm wrong...
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Tell me I'm wrong...
I'm not saying you're "wrong", I'm just tired of hearing about it every 5 minutes. Too many people are feeding off this stuff. Glen Beck is a great common sense guy, but what would he talk about if he didn't believe the Apocalypse was coming tomorrow? I just can't watch him anymore. Overkill in it's most grandiose form. Everything is wrong with everything. It just gets old.
We could be in a lot better shape than we're in, no question about it. But the fact remains regardless of what we owe, who we owe it to, what the dollar is "worth", how many tennis shoes we manufacture in Viet Nam, how many border jumpers we waste money on, how long it will take to repeal Hussein Care, there isn't a hell of a lot any of us can do about it. How much can you "prepare"? Buy silver, gold, guns, ammo, food, and water. Sit on it and wait. This could happen tomorrow, next week, or not for another 10 years. If it happens at all. I've heard enough and done all I as an individual can do. Right now the sky isn't falling, and until it does I'm putting everyone else in charge of worrying about it. Call it old age I guess? Bill T.
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Bill, the fact is if this information is not continuously pounded into the heads of John Q. Voter, they will as I predict re-elect Obummer in 2012
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2 years is an eternity in politics. Just look back 2 years ago. Bill T.
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2 years is an eternity in politics. Just look back 2 years ago. Bill T.
Most of the mutton headed voters can't remember 2 hours, never mind 2 years. >:(
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Most of the mutton headed voters can't remember 2 hours, never mind 2 years. >:(
I wonder how she's doing and if she, and many others, REMEMBER!!!
:-\
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She doesn't have to worry about putting gas in her car because she more than likely has been laid off, and has no where to go. Her mortgage is a thing of the past since her house is probably in foreclosure. Go Hussein!! Bill T.
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At least there is one that woke up.
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At least there is one that woke up.
6 weeks later, she went on the Obama Employment Plan, (laid off),.....and has hopefully found another job...and not become another 99 weeker.
Reality, can be a bit** sometimes.....
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Do you think she's still defending him?
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Do you think she's still defending him?
I would say most likely:
Yes....... BHO's African American support is polled in the 70-80% approval column. Not that they don't wanna support a brotha', but they do.
Disclaimer: this is NOT a racial observation, just one of facts supported by the polls, with the most credible advocates,,......
The Main Stream Media....
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110121/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_haiti_ex_dictator_returns
PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti – Former Haitian dictator Jean-Claude Duvalier says it was the devastating earthquake that brought him back to Haiti.
Duvalier says he wants to help with the reconstruction from a quake that destroyed much of the capital. He made a brief speech Friday at a rented guest house. It was his most extensive public statement since his surprise return to the country where he faces a potential trial for corruption and human rights violations.
Duvalier said he feels "profound sadness" for anyone who believes they were harmed by his regime.
He did not say how long he intends to stay in Haiti.
The former dictator known as "Baby Doc" was deposed nearly 25 years ago in a popular uprising.