The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Hazcat on February 23, 2011, 03:48:59 PM
-
02.23.2011
CBS NEWS UNCOVERS GUNRUNNING SCANDAL WITHIN THE ATF
Agency Secretly Endorsed Practice of Letting Guns "Walk"; ATF Agent to CBS News: "God Only Knows How Many Guns Were Used to Kill People"
Tonight on the CBS EVENING NEWS WITH KATIE COURIC (6:30 PM, ET), CBS News Investigative Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports on a major scandal building within the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), one of America's top law enforcement agencies. CBS News uncovered evidence which supports the allegation that the agency that is supposed to stop border gunrunning to Mexico's drug cartels actually participated in letting it happen. Attkisson reports that these guns have turned up at the scenes of violent crimes, including the murder of a U.S. border patrol officer in Arizona.
CBS News reveals that "Project Gunrunner," an ATF operation that aims to stop the flow of weapons from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels, has allegedly facilitated the delivery of thousands of guns into the hands of criminals. Often bought with cash, and sometimes brought in paper bags, sources tell CBS News that several gun shops wanted to stop the questionable sales, but were encouraged to continue selling by the ATF, so that they could continue gathering intelligence and see where the weapons ended up. This dangerous tactic is referred to as letting the guns "walk."
Veteran ATF agents called this strategy "insane" and "appalling," with one, speaking under a condition of anonymity, telling CBS News, "We were fully aware the guns would probably be moved across the border to drug cartels where they could be used to kill." CBS News has been told that at least 11 ATF agents and senior managers voiced fierce opposition to the strategy.
Sharyl Attkisson's full report, including a potential link between "Project Gunrunner" and the murder of U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, broadcasts tonight on the CBS EVENING NEWS WITH KATIE COURIC.
http://www.cbspressexpress.com/div.php/cbs_network/release?id=27623
-
File this one under:
What did they think would happen? ::)
On a more sinister note I have heard in a few places speculation that this was the idea all along. So the the Admin could say that all the guns were coming from the U.S. Yes, they were, you just failed to mention that it was the BATFE that was the facilitator. Kinda puts a big hole in the argument against the so called "gun show loophole" doesn't it.
-
Now that the lame-stream media has the story it would be nice to think that heads will role for such an egregious operation. However, having seen a few bureaucracies in operation, the best that we can hope for is some scapegoat several pay grades below where this policy was implemented. :(
-
No story here. Our intrepid Attorney General will thoroughly investigate this and - voila - find that there is nothing wrong.
We are controlled by a seriously criminal regime. >:(
-
We are controlled by a seriously criminal regime. >:(
That would be the Chicago mob. I noticed that Darth Rahm is now the mayor. Gee no one saw THAT coming. ::)
-
That would be the Chicago mob. I noticed that Darth Rahm is now the mayor. Gee no one saw THAT coming. ::)
I heard he got 110% of the votes.
-
I heard he got 110% of the votes.
How did he get around the residency requirements?
-
How did he get around the residency requirements?
The "Chicago Way"...bribery, naked shower arguments, payola, etc...
-
The "Chicago Way"...bribery, naked shower arguments, payola, etc...
Living up to that "Dead Fish" name of his.
And to think I have to fly through that cesspool in may. :-X
-
That would be the Chicago mob. I noticed that Darth Rahm is now the mayor. Gee no one saw THAT coming. ::)
He won the election by 107% of the votes.
Go figger.
-
Red State has talking about this for a couple weeks.
Congress has been hammering the ATF for info but the baby killers have been stonewalling them.
-
Congress has been hammering the ATF for info but the baby killers have been stonewalling them.
I read about a Congressman (singular) sending them a strongly worded letter. Have they (Congress) done more?
-
I read about a Congressman (singular) sending them a strongly worded letter. Have they (Congress) done more?
Grassley is the only one I have heard going after the facts!
-
The ATF no doubt operates in very strange ways. I'm just trying to understand exactly what is supposed to be the upside to all of this insane stupidity? Bill T.
-
Tom,
It has been all over the conservitive blogs and websites. It must pain the Perky One to talk about it. I'm sure she will give full credit to the folks who broke the story. (NOT)
Billt,
BATFE will claim they were trying to close down a big ring and needed more evidence. It is quite possible much of what they did could not be used in court because of they way the handled the investigation. See their work on motorcycle gangs.
-
Tom,
It has been all over the conservitive blogs and websites. It must pain the Perky One to talk about it. I'm sure she will give full credit to the folks who broke the story. (NOT)
Billt,
BATFE will claim they were trying to close down a big ring and needed more evidence. It is quite possible much of what they did could not be used in court because of they way the handled the investigation. See their work on motorcycle gangs.
Yes, I saw a couple things on the Pajama's media site as well, but couldn't think of the name last night when I posted
-
I read everything on David Codrea's site. Everything I saw still points to Sen Grassley as the only one who seems to care about this. I hardly call three letters (my mistake) from the ranking minority member of the Senate Judiciary Committee "getting hammered by Congress." First, he seems focused on the Brian Terry murder aspect only, when the potential scope of wrongdoing seems huge. Second, if three televangelists can get away with telling Senator Grassley to get bent a couple of years ago, I don't see why the Justice Department and BATF would have a problem doing so.
In a utopian society, people would actually care about right and wrong, and something would be done about this. Unfortunately, in our society, the political appointees in question and the majority of Senators all play for the "Jackasses". And to senators of all stripes today, what jersey you wear is all that matters. It doesn't mean we should stop trying, but it's a bit early to celebrate.
-
Not going to search for the articles now, but, my understanding was that while Grassely was the one who sent the letters he was representing his entire committee, and all the members signed signed them.
Which would at least qualify as getting hammered by their oversight committee.
-
He's now gaining support, even CBS News and Fox, and is insisting AG Holder DO HIS JOB, and investigate or RESIGN.
http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2011/02/holder-investigate-and-fire-or-resign.html
Thursday, February 24, 2011
Holder - Investigate and Fire, Or Resign
CCRKBA issued a blistering press release this afternoon calling on Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate Project Gunwalker and to fire those responsible. It goes on to say that if he isn't willing to investigate it, he should resign himself.
CCRKBA TO HOLDER ON ATF SCANDAL: INVESTIGATE AND FIRE, OR RESIGN
BELLEVUE, WA- Following new revelations regarding the growing scandal over the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Project Gunrunner- the most recent on Wednesday's CBS Evening News - the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms today is calling on Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate the allegations and remove ATF officials responsible, or hand in his resignation.
"Instead of cracking down on American gun owners, it is time to crack down on the ATF," said CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb, who earlier this week urged gun owners to pressure Congress to cut ATF's budget.
The Gunrunner scandal was originally uncovered by National Gun Rights Examiner David Codrea and independent blogger Mike Vanderboegh. The case now has the attention of U.S. Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA), ranking minority member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. CCRKBA believes the committee should launch a full-scale investigation of ATF and that Grassley should not stand alone in his pursuit of the truth.
"Two weeks ago," Gottlieb noted, "Sen. Grassley called on Holder to 'come clean' about this scandal, and the murder of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry. He was greeted with silence. Agent Terry was likely killed with a gun that ATF allowed one of the Gunrunner suspects to purchase more than a year ago. We have seen documents that show the gun was recovered at the Terry crime scene.
****
More at link...
This is a (insert expletive) scam by the BATFE, (and really big fires),...for a budget increase.
-
Now that the third world sh_ _ hole they call a country (mexico) wants answers from the ATF
Mexico Asks U.S. to Explain Why Firearms Entered Country
MEXICO CITY – Mexico has asked the United States for an official explanation of why U.S. agents allowed the smuggling of guns into Mexico as part of “Operation Fast and Furious,” whose goal was to trace the weapons to the highest levels of Mexico’s drug cartels, the Mexican Foreign Relations Secretariat said in a statement released on Sunday.
Mexico has asked for detailed information about the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, or ATF, operation, which has been the subject of numerous reports in the U.S. and Mexican media.
“The Government of Mexico will follow the investigations announced by both the ATF and the Department of Justice with interest,” the Foreign Relations Secretariat said.
The goal of the governments of Mexico and the United States is to “stop the arms trafficking on the basis of the principle of shared responsibility and both work to strengthen bilateral cooperation in the matter,” the secretariat said.
This priority “was ratified by the presidents of Mexico and the United States on March 3 in Washington,” the secretariat said.
The Foreign Relations Secretariat said it learned about the operation after it was revealed that ATF agents allowed the weapons to be smuggled into Mexico in an effort to catch a drug lord.
ATF lost track of hundreds of the weapons, a whistleblower told U.S. media.
ATF agent John Dodson told CBS News he was ordered to allow the trafficking of guns to Mexico, where 35,000 people have died in drug-related violence over the past four years, as part of efforts to build a legal case against smugglers.
“The idea was to see where the guns ended up, build a big case and take down a cartel. And it was all kept secret from Mexico,” CBS said, citing information from Dodson and other sources.
Dodson was assigned last year to ATF’s Phoenix office.
The tactic of letting guns “walk” was approved by the Justice Department, according to Dodson and other informants, while U.S. officials flatly deny the existence of any such policy.
“I’m boots on the ground in Phoenix, telling you we’ve been doing it every day since I’ve been here,” Dodson told CBS. “Here I am. Tell me I didn’t do the things that I did. Tell me you didn’t order me to do the things I did. Tell me it didn’t happen.”
“Now you have a name on it. You have a face to put with it. Here I am. Someone now, tell me it didn’t happen,” the ATF agent said.
CBS said it obtained surveillance video showing people loading boxes filled with weapons into vehicles outside a Phoenix gun shop.
“The guns that ATF let go began showing up at crime scenes in Mexico. And as ATF stood by watching thousands of weapons hit the streets ...,” CBS says.
Dodson and other ATF agents told CBS News that when they raised concerns about the deaths caused by the gun-walking approach, the bosses replied: “If you’re going to make an omelette, you’ve got to break some eggs.”
The Mexican government has long insisted that most of the high-powered weapons used by drug cartels, including assault rifles and automatic pistols, are acquired in the gun shops of Arizona, Texas and New Mexico.
-
Janet "From another planet" Napolitano, and the ATF Director, are culpable for the death of the Border Agent. During the hearing, this week, DHS Sec. just stated "we're investigating"....
OUR GOV'T LET THESE GUNS GET TO MEXICO,.....NOT A GUN DEALER!!!!!!
-
Janet "From another planet" Napolitano, and the ATF Director, are culpable for the death of the Border Agent. During the hearing, this week, DHS Sec. just stated "we're investigating"....
OUR GOV'T LET THESE GUNS GET TO MEXICO,.....NOT A GUN DEALER!!!!!!
Napolitano wouldn't know how to conduct a proper investigation if it landed in her lap.
When speaking with her you need to use really small words and keep repeating the points you want to make. She has the attention span of a gnat, along with the common sense of an imbecile.
That's just one person's opinion that has talked to her before.
Biker
-
Napolitano wouldn't know how to conduct a proper investigation if it landed in her lap.
When speaking with her you need to use really small words and keep repeating the points you want to make. She has the attention span of a gnat, along with the common sense of an imbecile.
That's just one person's opinion that has talked to her before.
Biker
There was a celebration in much of Arizona when we got rid of her in favor of Jan Brewer. Brewer is no angel, but she's doing a far better job here than "the dyke" could have on her best day. Gone are all of the speeding cameras Napolitano had installed all over the freeways here. And many of the red light cameras have been dismantled as well. Brewer signed S.B. 1070 which pissed of the libtards, and also signed into law Concealed Carry without requiring a permit. She won reelection easily over that libtard ass hat Terry Goddard, and I suspect she'll keep on fighting the good fight. If we would have had Napolitano all of this time, we'd be in far worse shape. She was totally worthless much to the point of being destructive. Bill T.
-
Just sent this e mail to my Dem Senator who is on the Foreign Relations Committee.
Since the murder of a US Border Patrol agent directly effects US/Mexican relations, your silence on BATFE's "Operation Gunrunner" can only be construed as supporting the arming of Mexican drug cartels by a rogue Govt. agency which has a history of murdering US citizens.
Demand answers from BATFE !
After all, "It's for the children.
-
Micheal Bane was saying in todays DRTV video on this that Senator Charles Grassley was from Idaho. No,Mike . He is across the Missouri river from me in Iowa. Mike,you should read more on our legislatures on where they are from.
-
Micheal Bane was saying in todays DRTV video on this that Senator Charles Grassley was from Idaho. No,Mike . He is across the Missouri river from me in Iowa. Mike,you should read more on our legislatures on where they are from.
Idaho...Iowa... It's all "fly over" country so it really doesn't matter. ::)
P.S. That's the "sarcasm" smiley at the end.
-
There was a celebration in much of Arizona when we got rid of her in favor of Jan Brewer.
My celebration hasn't stopped yet! ;D ;D
-
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/03/17/will-operation-gun-walker-bring-down-eric-holder-or-barack-obama/
Posted by Erick Erickson (Profile)
Thursday, March 17th at 5:00AM EDT
16 Comments
As the sun is rising this morning, it appears more and more that the Obama Administration committed an actual, factual act of war against Mexico through sheer incompetence that has left at least one American border patrol agent murdered.
What if I told you that the Obama Administration’s Justice Department authorized the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (the “ATF”) to rig gun background checks so gun runners could “walk” guns into Mexico after clearing an instant background check at various gun stores in the U.S.?
What if I told you that the Department of Justice and ATF did this to try to build a picture of Mexican Drug Cartels so the cartels could be taken out?
What if I told you that the ATF’s authorization of this operation, called by them “Fast and Furious”, corresponded to an increase in gun violence by drug cartels in Mexico?
What if I told you the Obama Administration never told the Mexican Government — making this a clear act of war under any host of international precedents?
What if I told you that at least one, and maybe more, American border patrol agents were murdered by guns passed over the border with the permission of the ATF?
And what if I told you that the Department of Justice and ATF decided to use the gun running they authorized, enabled, and oversaw as evidence in the Obama Administration’s fight to crack down on gun sales in the United States?
You’d think I was crazy, wouldn’t you? You’d think I had Obama Derangement Syndrome, wouldn’t you?
I’ll be honest. Had this come from any one of a million different right wing websites, I would be deeply suspicious that there were key details missing in order to paint a picture of an out of control Obama Administration and Eric Holder.
What if I told you the source of this fantastical story is the CBS Evening News with Katie Couric?
The facts here fit a pattern in Obama’s Department of Justice. Remember the Somali teen who the FBI gave pretend explosives to so the kid could take out a bunch of people in Oregon — or at least plot to? Only now, instead of imaginary bombs, the Department of Justice is authorizing real weapons that are being used to murder actual Americans.
Surveillance video obtained by CBS News shows suspected drug cartel suppliers carrying boxes of weapons to their cars at a Phoenix gun shop. The long boxes shown in the video being loaded in were AK-47-type assault rifles.
So it turns out ATF not only allowed it - they videotaped it.
Documents show the inevitable result: The guns that ATF let go began showing up at crime scenes in Mexico. And as ATF stood by watching thousands of weapons hit the streets… the Fast and Furious group supervisor noted the escalating Mexican violence.
One e-mail noted, “958 killed in March 2010 … most violent month since 2005.” The same e-mail notes: “Our subjects purchased 359 firearms during March alone,” including “numerous Barrett .50 caliber rifles.”
Senator Chuck Grassley “began investigating after his office spoke to Dodson and a dozen other ATF sources — all telling the same story.”
Now Congressman Darrell Issa is promising a congressional investigation. on the Rodger Hedgecock Show last night, Congressman Issa told Roger he is going to make sure there is a full inquiry into what happened.
The question, of course, to use the cliché, is what did Eric Holder and Barack Obama know and when did they know it.
One final note on this — CBS News itself does not get into the speculation that the Justice Department will be using this information to go after gun shops in this country. That’s just what ATF agents are whispering to Congress directly.
Had it not been CBS News, I’d say this was crazy talk. But they have the emails, videos, and actual ATF agents all saying the same thing.
-
ATF gunwalking scandal: Second agent speaks out
ATF allegedly encouraged U.S. gun sales to Mexican drug traffickers -- Now there's evidence other agencies knew about program
(CBS News)
WASHINGTON - South of El Paso, Texas, on Mexico's side of the border, lies Juarez - the most dangerous city in the world. CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports ATF Special Agent Rene Jaquez has been stationed there for the past year, trying to keep U.S. guns from being trafficked into Mexico.
"That's what we do as an agency," Jaquez said. "ATF's primary mission is to make sure that we curtail gun trafficking."
That's why Jaquez tells CBS News he was so alarmed to hear his own agency may have done the opposite: encouraged U.S. gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexico's drug cartels. Apparently, ATF hoped that letting weapons "walk" onto the street - to see where they'd end up - would help them take down a cartel.
Yet ATF agents told us they were ordered to let thousands of weapons walk. Two of them, assault rifles, were later found at the murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in Arizona last December. Another gunrunning suspect under ATF surveillance was linked to the shooting of Customs Agent Jaime Zapata. And sources say many more "walked" weapons turned up at Mexican crime scenes.
More at link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/21/eveningnews/main20045609.shtml
-
I'll admit to not being as on top of this as I should be. With that said do any of you guys think the ATF will end up in the $h!tter over this? Or do you think it will all blow over like Waco and Ruby Ridge? Bill T.
-
I think this one might get some traction. After all "good guys" are get killed this time. Looks like it runs pretty deep, too.
From the link http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/21/eveningnews/main20045609.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/21/eveningnews/main20045609.shtml)
But ATF wasn't working alone on the case known as "Fast and Furious." Documents show ATF had conference calls with "DHS" (Homeland Security). "USMS" (U.S. Marshals) and DEA. An "ICE," or Customs agent, was on ATF's Fast and Furious team. They were advised by an "AUSA," or Assistant U.S. Attorney under the Justice Department.
I must say that this is one time that I am cheering on CBS.
-
Another reason The Grand Weasel "Harry Reid", is stalling the confirmation hearings of the next BHO weasel to head the BATFE (and really big fires), Andrew Traver.....
This one is rotten like a dead fish on the bank, and is only going to turn the light on the corrupt nature of a virtually unregulated Agency.
The House is attempting to pass leg. to reform the ATF we'll see how it goes.
The gun dealers that sold the weapons, (furnished by the ATF), were also told they would have immunity. Oh it gets real good.
http://extranosalley.com/?p=10261
Now the DEA, ICE, and other agencies,....seem to be implicated....
http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/03/robert-farago/gunwalker-scandal-spreads-to-dhs-usms-dea-ice-and-ausa/