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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: tt11758 on July 07, 2011, 10:06:54 AM

Title: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tt11758 on July 07, 2011, 10:06:54 AM
I finally did it yesterday.  After a couple of years hearing from the lovers of "Combat Tupperware", I decided to see what all the fuss was about.  So yesterday I took a Glock 22 to the range and put about 50 rounds through it. 

It's an ok gun, I suppose, lightweight and accurate, to be sure, but I'm still waiting to see what all the fuss is about.

I won't be running right out to buy one, but hey, at least I gave it a shot.  I'm thinking maybe another 1911.....this time a compact version in 9mm.



Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 07, 2011, 10:10:27 AM
Most of the fuss seems to be based on the fact that while they are "OK" as far as accuracy, and totally lacking in the looks dept, they go bang every time and it's damned hard to break one.
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tt11758 on July 07, 2011, 10:11:38 AM
Most of the fuss seems to be based on the fact that while they are "OK" as far as accuracy, and totally lacking in the looks dept, they go bang every time and it's damned hard to break one.

Except for the "totally lacking in the looks dept", it sounds like you just described the 1911.
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 07, 2011, 10:13:31 AM
But you have to CLEAN a 1911 once in a while.
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tt11758 on July 07, 2011, 10:15:40 AM
But you have to CLEAN a 1911 once in a while.

So you're saying that the Glock is the handgun equivalent of the AK47?  ;D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: fightingquaker13 on July 07, 2011, 10:26:36 AM
So you're saying that the Glock is the handgun equivalent of the AK47?  ;D
Yep, and about a billion of those were sold. The Glock and the AK are chimpanzee simple, and that is what I want in an SD gun.
FQ13
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Pathfinder on July 07, 2011, 12:00:05 PM
Yep, and about a billion of those were sold. The Glock and the AK are chimpanzee simple, and that is what I want in an SD gun.
FQ13

Speaking of which, FQ (who voted... and spent all morning looking at a sweaty Latina), I would never have said that, but as long as you brought the self referencing up . . . . .  ;D

Wanna banana? ? ? ? ?  ;)
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 07, 2011, 12:21:48 PM
That's why Gabe Suarez bases his combat training around the Glock and the AK.
They are butt simple and nearly unbreakable.
(You can't idiot proof anything, but you can come close  ;D  )
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: fightingquaker13 on July 07, 2011, 01:06:31 PM
Speaking of which, FQ (who voted... and spent all morning looking at a sweaty Latina), I would never have said that, but as long as you brought the self referencing up . . . . .  ;D

Wanna banana? ? ? ? ?  ;)
How'd you spend your morning? And yeah. I could go for a banana about now. ;D
FQ13
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Solus on July 07, 2011, 02:24:49 PM
I became a 1911 believer after reading Jeff Cooper's Cooper on Handguns.  

However, even Col. Cooper noted a few faults with the design.  

One was that it had too many safeties and he recommended pinning the grip safety so it was always disengaged.

Another was a list of mods he felt would improve it's reliability....  i.e enlarging the ejection port, and others.

Another was weight.

I don't remember Col. Cooper ever criticizing the 1911 as being short on capacity, and I don't remember his recommending a mag extension to gain another round, but I don't remember him ever expressing the belief that having 14 rounds of .45 ACP on tap was a bad thing either.

Well, I am not quite, by a large measure, as competent a shooter as the Col., so the extra capacity is more important.  The reduced weight is also a nice thing, and boring reliability is a major plus, as are fewer safeties with which to fiddle.

All taken into account, I saw the Glock as an improvement on the 1911, in all aspects except appearance, for a SD sidearm.

I even jumped on one of the first Para Ordinance replacement frames for my Series 70, for the lighter weight and increased capacity, but reliability was so poor, I scrapped it.  

The Glock came along and did it right....  

Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Ichiban on July 07, 2011, 06:39:27 PM
Yep, and about a billion of those were sold. The Glock and the AK are chimpanzee simple, and that is what I want in an SD gun.
FQ13

I'm sure it's fake, but it is funny.....
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: twyacht on July 07, 2011, 07:03:46 PM
(http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt222/raxsum/StarWars/star-wars-darth-vader-teh-force-waz.jpg)

Oh c'mon tt,...just throw them in the dishwasher once in a while,..or take in the shower,......oil it with used lawnmower remnants.... and the damn thing, as ugly as it is,.....

will still work...

 8)
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Badgersmilk on July 07, 2011, 08:42:26 PM
Criticize if you like.  You KNOW it'd be fun!

(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0PDoS5QXhZOmgsAyWijzbkF/SIG=12hbnqoq8/EXP=1310117584/**http%3a//i33.photobucket.com/albums/d93/Spencerman2/obrazek.jpg)

And your worried about "pretty"?
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 07, 2011, 08:53:22 PM
Does Black Hawk  make a concealment holster for that ?  ;D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Badgersmilk on July 07, 2011, 08:53:34 PM
No comment.  It's just...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rear-Cover-Plate-Glock-19-20-21-22-23-26-27-Pee-/150478942255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23093e702f (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rear-Cover-Plate-Glock-19-20-21-22-23-26-27-Pee-/150478942255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23093e702f)
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: fightingquaker13 on July 07, 2011, 09:03:53 PM
Look, I don't want to sound all mall ninja (and hell, I was one for $7 an hour 20 years ago :-\ :)) But here I go. I care about pretty with my bird guns and deer rifles.But my SD guns? Here's the only thing you should see.......
FQ13
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: crusader rabbit on July 07, 2011, 09:29:45 PM
I'm sure it's fake, but it is funny.....


Hey Ichiban, did you have to get a banana for the Quaker to get him to sign a release?  (He does look better than he has in quite some time--prolly a diet high in iguanas.)
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: fightingquaker13 on July 07, 2011, 09:35:03 PM
Dude! I own an AR. Get your freaking videos right. ;D
FQ13
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Bic on July 07, 2011, 09:54:28 PM
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff372/StuartCowley/Glock-1911.jpg)




MP  :D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 07, 2011, 11:51:03 PM
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff372/StuartCowley/Glock-1911.jpg)


  Now THAT'S perfection !

MP  :D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: kmitch200 on July 08, 2011, 01:47:59 AM
Except for the "totally lacking in the looks dept", it sounds like you just described the 1911.

Not all 1911s are reliable out of the box.
I'm sure not all glocks are either but there is more to go wrong on a 1911.

Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Solus on July 08, 2011, 08:12:06 AM
"I think that I shall never see A pistol lovely as a 1911."

My apologies to Joyce Kilmer
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: PegLeg45 on July 08, 2011, 01:00:28 PM
"I think that I shall never see A pistol lovely as a 1911."

My apologies to Joyce Kilmer

Yep.

 ;)
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Solus on July 08, 2011, 01:32:03 PM
Yep.

 ;)

I still carry Glocks though.  :D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: PegLeg45 on July 08, 2011, 03:42:44 PM
I still carry Glocks though.  :D

Me too.
I'm a practical guy. If ugly works, it works. It's way easier for me to carry a G27 under a tee shirt in the summer (all 10 months of it here) than a 1911......plain and simple. Nothing to do with reliability or aesthetics....just size vs clothing.
If I could swing the dough for a compact 1911, the Glock would sit on the bench way more often though.   ;)    ;D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: ronlarimer on July 08, 2011, 05:04:55 PM
The reasons I like and carry a glock are as follows...

1) As said earlier they are "chimpanzee simple" both in operation and function
2) They have a remarkable tendency to go bang when you pull the trigger and not go bang when you don't (a bit redundant with #1 I know)
3) They are light
4) They hold a bunch of bullets
5) They are accurate enough
6) They tolerate a fair amount of neglect (I took Tactical Pistol 1 at USTC and didn't clean it for the week, I had 3 shooter caused failures to lock back from riding the slide stop and on the last day the slide cycled a little slow and if I babied it when I racked it I had to tap it into battery...  after 2500 rounds)

and most importantly...

7) I don't care about it.  I drop it in training when transitioning to a second pistol.  I have used carbide punches to drift sights on it.  If it is taken as evidence I would grab another soulless Glock from the safe or replace it for $500.

I would be sad if I lost or damaged one of my 1911's or devastated if I lost or damaged one of my revolvers.  I baby my Kahr too, but have a similar appathy to it.

To make a long story short, the best thing about a Glock is that they are tough, but disposable.
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: fightingquaker13 on July 08, 2011, 06:41:02 PM
Not all 1911s are reliable out of the box.
I'm sure not all glocks are either but there is more to go wrong on a 1911.


Actually they are. 1911s vary from any of the dozen companies that make them. You get blue collar guns, you get target tack drivers, you get solid SD guns. With Glock, you get a Glock. NC Buckeye has it right. I will be the last person to say that a Glock is the best and most accurate pistol ever made. But I will be the first to grab one going out the door if I think I'll need a handgun for social work. Seriously, I would pay retail for a Glock rather than taking a Less Baer or a Kimber for free because I KNOW it will work even if it hasn't been cleaned recently. I'd rather have the Kimber as a range toy, but for a "pull it out of the IWB in my crotch and shoot you twice in the chest at ten feet gun"? Survey says Glock.
FQ13
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tt11758 on July 09, 2011, 06:18:36 AM
The reasons I like and carry a glock are as follows...

1) As said earlier they are "chimpanzee simple" both in operation and function
2) They have a remarkable tendency to go bang when you pull the trigger and not go bang when you don't (a bit redundant with #1 I know)
3) They are light
4) They hold a bunch of bullets
5) They are accurate enough
6) They tolerate a fair amount of neglect (I took Tactical Pistol 1 at USTC and didn't clean it for the week, I had 3 shooter caused failures to lock back from riding the slide stop and on the last day the slide cycled a little slow and if I babied it when I racked it I had to tap it into battery...  after 2500 rounds)

and most importantly...

7) I don't care about it.  I drop it in training when transitioning to a second pistol.  I have used carbide punches to drift sights on it.  If it is taken as evidence I would grab another soulless Glock from the safe or replace it for $500.

I would be sad if I lost or damaged one of my 1911's or devastated if I lost or damaged one of my revolvers.  I baby my Kahr too, but have a similar appathy to it.

To make a long story short, the best thing about a Glock is that they are tough, but disposable.

My friend, you have stated the pro-Combat Tupperware case more convincingly than anyone else here (at least so far).  Still not ready to run out and buy one, but it's making me rethink my position.
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tt11758 on July 09, 2011, 06:20:01 AM
Actually they are. 1911s vary from any of the dozen companies that make them. You get blue collar guns, you get target tack drivers, you get solid SD guns. With Glock, you get a Glock. NC Buckeye has it right. I will be the last person to say that a Glock is the best and most accurate pistol ever made. But I will be the first to grab one going out the door if I think I'll need a handgun for social work. Seriously, I would pay retail for a Glock rather than taking a Less Baer or a Kimber for free because I KNOW it will work even if it hasn't been cleaned recently. I'd rather have the Kimber as a range toy, but for a "pull it out of the IWB in my crotch and shoot you twice in the chest at ten feet gun"? Survey says Glock.
FQ13

Your "natural bulge" need a little enhancement?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Ksail101 on July 09, 2011, 09:43:02 AM
TT I am glad you at least gave it a try. But I am more happy with the fact you have stayed with what you like and not with what people say to like.

I love my G19 its my go everywhere gun with that said my Kimber out shoots it hands down and after shooting the Kimber I hate the transition back to the glock cause its so rough compared. But I the simplicity of the Glock keeps me carrying it.
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 09, 2011, 12:04:48 PM
NC Buckeye pretty much nailed it, Glocks are accurate enough, go bang every time and don't break your heart if they are lost to the evidence locker.
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: fightingquaker13 on July 09, 2011, 12:22:08 PM
Your "natural bulge" need a little enhancement?  ;D ;D ;D
M "natural bulge" can't fire 11 times without reloading. ;D
FQ13
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Majer on July 09, 2011, 12:28:08 PM
M "natural bulge" can't fire 11 times without reloading. ;D
FQ13

Sucks for You... ;D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: kmitch200 on July 09, 2011, 11:19:17 PM
Actually they are.

I try not to say 'always' and 'never'. There are some reliability reports involving the Gen 4 Glocks. I haven't looked hard enough to seperate the wheat from the chaff. That said, my Gen 3 Glocks have NEVER failed - even when I tried to make them fail.
That's why I carry my G27.  ;D

Quote
Seriously, I would pay retail for a Glock rather than taking a Less Baer or a Kimber for free because I KNOW it will work even if it hasn't been cleaned recently.

If you find a free Les Baer, I will buy you any Glock you want for it. You can keep the Kimber, I don't like the Swartz safety system. 

Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: fightingquaker13 on July 10, 2011, 06:32:22 AM

If you find a free Les Baer, I will buy you any Glock you want for it. You can keep the Kimber, I don't like the Swartz safety system. 


[/quote]
Thats a mighty kind offer Kmitch, but I've already got a couple of Glocks. I think I might just keep that Less Baer for the range. ;D
FQ13
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: kmitch200 on July 10, 2011, 01:57:27 PM
Thats a mighty kind offer Kmitch, but I've already got a couple of Glocks. I think I might just keep that Less Baer for the range. ;D
FQ13

Just trying to help whenever I can!  :)
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 10, 2011, 04:49:04 PM
Just trying to help whenever I can!  :)

It's amazing, the sacrifices we will make to fellow forum members.
That kind of selfless dedication brings a tear to my eye.    ;D
Or is it just the onion in the sandwich I'm eating ?     ;D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: alfsauve on July 10, 2011, 05:10:42 PM
Just a sideline on this subject.

At Saturday's match since it was taking so long to shoot, I watch the squads on either side of us.   Anytime anyone had a malfunction I tried to find out what happened.   Of the almost 10 (I didn't do an exact count) malfunctions I observed, all were 1911s.  Not a single striker fired had a problem.   I realize that in many cases it could have been the ammunition or other causes.   I just found that an interesting observation.

Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Badgersmilk on July 10, 2011, 07:20:59 PM
I believe I'm pretty accurate in saying a G30 weighs the same loaded with 10 rounds as a 1911 empty. 

It matters to me anyway.
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 10, 2011, 07:23:39 PM
Just a sideline on this subject.

At Saturday's match since it was taking so long to shoot, I watch the squads on either side of us.   Anytime anyone had a malfunction I tried to find out what happened.   Of the almost 10 (I didn't do an exact count) malfunctions I observed, all were 1911s.  Not a single striker fired had a problem.   I realize that in many cases it could have been the ammunition or other causes.   I just found that an interesting observation.



Your going to Hell.




            ;D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: PegLeg45 on July 10, 2011, 07:37:36 PM
Your going to Hell.




            ;D

And your punishment will be cleaning Glocks.


 ;D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: fightingquaker13 on July 10, 2011, 10:24:30 PM
And your punishment will be cleaning Glocks.


 ;D
Ok, that will take about 1 minute and 45 seconds out of eternity. Dissasemble into five parts, spritz, wipe, run a brush and a couple of patches through. I hope the cable is good because he'll have a lot of free time. ;D
FQ13
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 10, 2011, 11:25:53 PM
It's Hell, it doesn't work that way.
The parts won't come apart, the "spritz" comes out everywhere except the nozzle, there are no rags for wiping, the brush is the wrong size, and if you get to the patches (already filthy ) the cleaning rod will break.

Don't worry about the cable, it's all Shamwow  infomercials any way.   ;D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: fightingquaker13 on July 10, 2011, 11:28:40 PM
Yeah, but here's the good news. Its a freaking Glock, you don't need to clean it and it will still work just fine. ;D
FQ13
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Badgersmilk on July 11, 2011, 12:27:42 AM
Wait a minute.  "It's hell".  The solvent would catch fire.  Which is OK cause the Glocks would all melt.  Which is OK, cause "IT'S HELL"!  What goods a Glock, clean or dirty in HELL?

If you hadn't used that 1911 that jammed on you, you probably wouldn't be there in the first place.   ;)
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: PegLeg45 on July 11, 2011, 11:24:23 AM
Ok, that will take about 1 minute and 45 seconds out of eternity. Dissasemble into five parts, spritz, wipe, run a brush and a couple of patches through. I hope the cable is good because he'll have a lot of free time. ;D
FQ13

Apparently, you've never cleaned a "well-shot" Glock......or used 'dirty' ammo.    ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: Solus on July 11, 2011, 12:21:07 PM
Apparently, you've never cleaned a "well-shot" Glock......or used 'dirty' ammo.    ;D  ;D  ;D

Will we get to shoot a lot in Hell?  Or do we clean the guns from the folks up in Heaven were everyone is given the complete Glock catalog and all the ammo they need.....true everlasting bliss up there.
Title: Re: I Briefly Crossed Over To The Dark Side
Post by: PegLeg45 on July 11, 2011, 12:30:13 PM
Will we get to shoot a lot in Hell?  Or do we clean the guns from the folks up in Heaven were everyone is given the complete Glock catalog and all the ammo they need.....true everlasting bliss up there.

I'm hoping for a 1000yd range.    ;)