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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: GASPASSERDELUXE on September 21, 2011, 06:51:53 PM

Title: HARD TO KILL
Post by: GASPASSERDELUXE on September 21, 2011, 06:51:53 PM

http://concealedcarryholsters.org/wp-content/files/FBI-Analysis-on-PA-Police-Shootout.pdf

An autopsy with photos and narative of a gun fight and the poor performance of .40 cal and .223 rds.

Title: Re: HARD TO KILL
Post by: Ichiban on September 21, 2011, 07:34:38 PM

Weird. 
- The .40S&W Gold Dots only penetrated 1"?  There's something fishy there.  A .22 would do better.
- 107 rounds expended and 17 hits?  That's about par.
- "Shot placement is everything in a gunfight and always the key to stopping a threat effectively."  DUH!

Title: Re: HARD TO KILL
Post by: twyacht on September 21, 2011, 08:12:13 PM

Distance of roughly 20 feet? Penetration 1"? I'll bet Speer has something to say about that....Something seems left out.

However, the human body is hard to kill without a cranial/cervical/spinal impact.  Deers/hogs can run a good way on adrenalin even after a pulmonary/cardiac cavity shot.

Many a convict is proud of his bullet wound scars in prison. After looking at the pics, it seems this was one of those types.

- 107 rounds expended and 17 hits?  That's about par.

 ::)

I don't intend to shoot and kill anyone, I intend to stop a lethal threat if needs be,....if the BG dies, than so be it, and no great loss to society.

(paraphrased Jeff Cooperism)....

Title: Re: HARD TO KILL
Post by: Ichiban on September 21, 2011, 08:39:21 PM

Quote from: twyacht on September 21, 2011, 08:12:13 PM

Distance of roughly 20 feet? Penetration 1"? I'll bet Speer has something to say about that....Something seems left out.

I wonder if it was department provided and they had gotten a tainted batch of ammo.  At any rate, that just aint normal.

Title: Re: HARD TO KILL
Post by: mkm on September 21, 2011, 08:56:34 PM

I'm confused. 

That's a pretty bad presentation, and the information is kind of circular. It really doesn't provide a good enough explanation of what happened or a decent conclusion.  First, they say the .40 failed and the .223 saved the day.  Second, they say both were insufficient?  Third, they say the .40 couldn't have fully expanded like it did with only 1" of penetration and that it didn't fail.  The .40 was "FBI approved" and the .223 was not, hmmm.

The hit counts don't seem to add up either (still a lot less hits, especially to critical areas, than shots).  Whatever happened, shot placement should have been better.

Title: Re: HARD TO KILL
Post by: Pecos Bill on September 21, 2011, 09:22:59 PM

If this is actually official, I think it reflects the ineptitude of government reporting by reflecting opposing conclusions about a bad incident. I won't begin to have the courage to draw my own conclusions though I have questions about where the 40 S&W stuff was before it hit the trashy. Somewhere in that mess of language there was mention of hitting the wind shield.

Pecos

Title: Re: HARD TO KILL
Post by: Big Frank on September 21, 2011, 10:24:39 PM

I like his tattoos. "live by the gun, die by the gun" and "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger".  :)

Title: Re: HARD TO KILL
Post by: tombogan03884 on September 21, 2011, 11:34:02 PM

Quote from: jumbofrank on September 21, 2011, 10:24:39 PM

I like his tattoos. "live by the gun, die by the gun" and "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger".  :)

So does this mean I should stick to steroids since the gunshot therapy didn't work so good ?

Title: Re: HARD TO KILL
Post by: oldkat69 on September 22, 2011, 07:10:06 AM

 ???  Is this why my "club" is a .45 double stack 1911?

By the way I hear Para is making them again.
Kimbers are awesome! I wonder why the quit making them?