The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on March 24, 2008, 07:07:10 AM
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CHARLOTTE, N.C.-- A US Airways pilot’s gun accidentally discharged during a flight from Denver to Charlotte Saturday, according to a statement released by the airline.
The statement said the discharge happened on Flight 1536, which left Denver at approximately 6:45 a.m. and arrived in Charlotte at approximately 11:51 a.m.
The Airbus A319 plane landed safely and none of the flight’s 124 passengers or five crew members was injured, according to the statement. It was a full flight. An airline spokeswoman said the plane has been taken out of service to make sure it is safe to return to flight.
A Transportation Safety Administration spokeswoman reached by WCNC Sunday said the pilot is part of TSA’s Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO) program, which trains pilots to carry guns on flights. Andrea McCauley said the gun discharged in the cockpit, but she could not release how the gun was being transported at the time. She did not release the pilot’s name, but said he was authorized to carry the weapon and was last requalified in the FFDO program last November.
A statement from TSA said the airplane was never in danger, and the TSA and the Federal Air Marshals Service are investigating the incident.
http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-032308-sjf-gunonplane.1c4cabd1.html
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This is really going to help.
As we all know a gun does NOT accidentally discharge. Somebody had their finger where it shouldn't be, when it shouldn't be! But it always reads "X's gun accidentally discharges" not "X accidentally discharges gun" which would be the truth! It's always blame the gun instead of blame the idiot with the gun.
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I would think that what the media should focus on is the fact that if the guy can't handle a handgun safely, what the HELL is he doing flying a state of the art passenger jet with hundreds on board?
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I would think that what the media should focus on is the fact that if the guy can't handle a handgun safely, what the HELL is he doing flying a state of the art passenger jet with hundreds on board?
Jaybeth,
There you go thinking logically again! ;) That story couldn't be used to advance the antis agenda nearly so well as a gun that goes off by itself!
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There was lots of times I really wanted shoot one of my jets, on the ground maybe, never in the air. This idiot overrode the guns' #1 safety...his finger. The FAA and NTSB are really going to be scratching their heads on this one for a while. I see a congressional coming with this. Its an election year...they have to make it look like they have done something during this term.
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The airlines will never allot sufficient time for pilots (brother is one) to train and maintain competency with a firearm to the level necessary to overcome a determined hijacking plot. Just ain't gonna happen. NC recently passed an exemption to the CCW laws, allowing State court judges to carry concealed while on the bench. Lunacy, in my opinion. It's like a public range, where the public is the backstop.
Mac.
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Scenario: Hey guys, look at my new toy! Sure, you can hold it but whatever you do, don't **BANG**. Oh $hit, what'll we do now. Damn good thing it wasn't aimed at the windshield :o
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That's entirely possible, Outlaw.
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Here hold my beer.................
Check out out my new gun!
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This is going bad....I just thought of some really evil stuff. "This is my rifle, this is my gun...."
Fly the friendly skies.
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Jay, I'm shocked. Are you implying that the pilot's pistol isn't the only thing going off it the cockpit during the flight?? Like, after nap time? NO! :-[
Mac.
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Using the worng insturment in the cockpit has caused many accidents in aviation. :o
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Pulling the wrong "joystick" can lead to control issues. :o
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I wonder how many pilots have actually landed with more passengers than they took off with?
Mac.
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You guy's are sick! ;D
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+1 :) ;D :o
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You guy's are sick! ;D
Yes! (but it takes a lot of effort! ;) )
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To some, it just comes naturally :P
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Yes and the effort is worth it ;D :P
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You guy's are sick! ;D
Yes, we are. But it seems to be YOUR kind of sick so that makes it OK, right ;D
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From The Washington Times:
"The pilot has to take his gun off and lock it up before he leaves the cockpit, so he was trying to secure the gun in preparation for landing, while he was trying to fly the airplane, too," said David Mackett, president of the Airline Pilots Security Alliance. "In the process of doing that, the padlock that is required to be inserted into the holster pulled the trigger and caused the gun to discharge."
Faulty rules blamed for gun's firing
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080328/NATION/927995814/1002
See also Michael's blog post:
TSA Stupidity Puts Pilots At Risk!
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2008/03/tsa-stupidity-puts-pilots-at-risk.html
(http://bp3.blogger.com/_G-EWSfJ1PwE/R-vK7GmaPWI/AAAAAAAAAR4/J-imb_aqQFE/s320/Holstervault_key_2.jpg)
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Lets see if I can remember the rules for using trigger locks?
1. BE SURE GUN IS NOT LOADED
2. BE SURE CHAMBER IS EMPTY
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Lets see if I can remember the rules for using trigger locks?
1. BE SURE GUN IS NOT LOADED
2. BE SURE CHAMBER IS EMPTY
Fuzzy,
While that is true, if you read MB's blog you will see that the whole thing is bad procedure. And if he had to unload it, it is just more 'futzing' with it which will add to the problem.
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Seems logical that if one (pilot) is trained and duly authorized, you load at home, carry, concealed, until you get home. That is Homeland Security.
Mac.
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Fuzzy,
While that is true, if you read MB's blog you will see that the whole thing is bad procedure. And if he had to unload it, it is just more 'futzing' with it which will add to the problem.
Seems logical that if one (pilot) is trained and duly authorized, you load at home, carry, concealed, until you get home. That is Homeland Security.
Mac.
Yes, MB goes into quite a bit of detail on his blog about the stupidity of the TSA standards. He also points out that as TSA has always opposed the armed pilot program, it seems like their regulations were designed to CAUSE this type of incident.
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For those who missed it:
Pittsburgh pilot fired over gun incident on US Airways flight
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08109/874569-100.stm
What got him fired was a flying rules violation: not supposed to be doing anything to distract from flying the plane under 10,000 ft. He was handling the weapon at 8,000 ft during the approach for landing. He could have been fired for doing that even w/o the ND.
AKA as the sterile cockpit rule:
U.S. FAR 121.542/135.100, "Flight Crewmember Duties":
(a) No certificate holder shall require, nor may any flight crewmember perform, any duties during a critical phase of flight except those duties required for the safe operation of the aircraft. Duties such as company required calls made for such nonsafety related purposes as ordering galley supplies and confirming passenger connections, announcements made to passengers promoting the air carrier or pointing out sights of interest, and filling out company payroll and related records are not required for the safe operation of the aircraft.
(b) No flight crewmember may engage in, nor may any pilot in command permit, any activity during a critical phase of flight which could distract any flight crewmember from the performance of his or her duties or which could interfere in any way with the proper conduct of those duties. Activities such as eating meals, engaging in nonessential conversations within the cockpit and nonessential communications between the cabin and cockpit crews, and reading publications not related to the proper conduct of the flight are not required for the safe operation of the aircraft.
(c) For the purposes of this section, critical phases of flight includes all ground operations involving taxi, takeoff and landing, and all other flight operations conducted below 10,000 feet, except cruise flight.
Fired for just the ND? Probably not. Fired for just the weapon handling? Probably not. Put 'em together and he's gone.
No matter what the carry rules are, shoulda waited until the plane was safely down, and stopped before handling the weapon in any way. He was in a hurry, he messed up, and that's what got him fired.
The real issue from the beginning was pilot error in handling the weapon at all when he was not supposed to. The lousy procedures, holster/lock combo, ND, etc just made it more interesting and distracted just about everybody.