The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on December 01, 2011, 05:49:41 PM
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Really?
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/11/daniel-zimmerman/bad-law-enforcement-advice-of-the-day-colorado-springs-edition/
Bad Law Enforcement Advice of the Day: Colorado Springs Edition
Posted on November 30, 2011 by Dan Zimmerman
You hear it so often it must be printed in police department handbooks. “Just give the robber what he wants. It’s not worth getting hurt over a few dollars.” Would the same cops who counsel appeasing armed robbers tell a potential rape victim to lie back and make the best of it? They may if you live in Colorado Springs…
From gazette.com comes a story of a soldier and his wife who were held up by two masked men last night. One was armed with, at minimum, a machete. Thankfully, the soldier was carrying and fired a round at the ground, sending the muggers scattering into the night.
The soldier “turned the tables” on the robbers when he pulled out his gun, sending the men fleeing, (Sgt. Dave) Gilman said.
The soldier told police he held off firing his gun until one of the men appeared to turn around and reach for his waistband, Gilman said.
Though it worked for the soldier Tuesday evening, police do not encourage people to fight would-be robbers.
“Your best bet is just to comply, because it’s not worth getting hurt or killed over a wallet or something like that,” Gilman said.
Thanks for that unsolicited tidbit, Sgt. Gilman. You’re probably right. Better to hand over your cash, then pray the two aren’t so strung out on meth that they decide to go medieval on you and the missus like Hutus on a couple of Tutsis.
In the mean time, I’ll continue to carry my protection with me, if you don’t mind. Or even if you do. I’m pretty sure the newly arrived unnamed soldier will, too.
*****
"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work, but I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the universal language."
Anon.
'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' ~G. K. Chesterton
Please inform the LEO Sgt. to stop being an idiot.
I would not have shot at the ground...IMHO....
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Vested interest.
Think how many fewer Peace Officers would be needed if every citizen ended crimes that way or another similar.
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That is exactly the advice many departments give potential rape victims.
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What was it the GOP Texas Gubenatorial candidate Clayton Williams said "Rape is like rain, you can't stop it, so you might as well lay back and enjoy it". This was the only guy who could have lost a race to Anne Richards. ::) That attitude don't fly in Texas. Alto? I'll raise you a chingame tu pinche cabron, followed by an empty mag. The only way I'd shoot the ground in that situation is if I pulled a Tex Grebner and had my booger hook on the bang switch during the draw. ;D
FQ13
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Vested interest.
Think how many fewer Peace Officers UNION Members would be needed if every citizen ended crimes that way or another similar.
FIFY
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He probably would have gotten the same desired effect if he hadn't shot the round off.
Depending on the distances involved, display of something that will ruin a bad guys day usually sends them running.
"Nobody likes to leak." Walt R. ;D
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He probably would have gotten the same desired effect if he hadn't shot the round off.
Depending on the distances involved, display of something that will ruin a bad guys day usually sends them running.
"Nobody likes to leak." Walt R. ;D
A miss is worse than no shot at all IMHO.
The desired affect was to ventilate the POS in front of him and his wife threatening both with a machete.
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Either that guy has nerves of steel or he fired into the ground by accident.
The story says he said he held his fire till one of the guys appeared to be turning and reaching for a weapon. When the BG is reaching for a weapon is not the time to fire a warning shot...you could be dead before you can fire a second one.
Might be that he either got rattled thinking the guy was going for his gun and made a bad shot or he thought the guy was going for his gun and started to fire and saw he did not have a gun and managed to get the muzzle down....
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They did say this guy was recently back from the sand box. Those guys are well trained in restraint. I would like to give the benefit of the doubt here to the soldier and believe that his warning shot was on purpose.
Having said that, I personally don't believe in warning shots.
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He probably would have gotten the same desired effect if he hadn't shot the round off.
Depending on the distances involved, display of something that will ruin a bad guys day usually sends them running.
"Nobody likes to leak." Walt R. ;D
This is a major pet peeve. If you bring your gun into the fight intend to use it until such the attacker does something to change your mind.
The quote is "nobody likes to leaks" not "guns make criminals run away.". It isn't a magical talisman.
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The desired affect was to ventilate the POS in front of him and his wife threatening both with a machete.
This is a major pet peeve. If you bring your gun into the fight intend to use it until such the attacker does something to change your mind.
The quote is "nobody likes to leaks" not "guns make criminals run away.". It isn't a magical talisman.
Huh?
The desired effect is to stop the threat.
If you can stop the threat without firing a shot, you just saved yourself a sh!tload of lawyer money and legal headache.
Be prepared to? Damn right! Fire for effect? Only if the bad guy makes it necessary.
Unfired guns make criminals flee thousands of times a year. To think that you HAVE to shoot EVERY threat is foolish.
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If I see the BG drawing a gun on me, it's past the time for warning gestures.
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Huh?
The desired effect is to stop the threat.
If you can stop the threat without firing a shot, you just saved yourself a sh!tload of lawyer money and legal headache.
Be prepared to? Damn right! Fire for effect? Only if the bad guy makes it necessary.
Unfired guns make criminals flee thousands of times a year. To think that you HAVE to shoot EVERY threat is foolish.
I never said anything about shooting every threat, nor did I say anything about displaying a gun to every threat, but if yo pull your firearm you should intend to fire it. It is not a threat. If he quits, turns and runs, drops to his knees or in someway shows me that he is no longer a threat GREAT! But he better do it quick as he has about 1.7 seconds if I am wearing a tucked in shirt and less if I don't.
If I am not in fear for my life then he will never fear for his.
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I never said anything about shooting every threat, nor did I say anything about displaying a gun to every threat, but if yo pull your firearm you should intend to fire it. It is not a threat. If he quits, turns and runs, drops to his knees or in someway shows me that he is no longer a threat GREAT! But he better do it quick as he has about 1.7 seconds if I am wearing a tucked in shirt and less if I don't.
If I am not in fear for my life then he will never fear for his.
I understand what you are saying, addressing the mindset that if it's bad enough to draw you need to be prepared to shoot unless the situation changes.
But that was not how your first post came across.
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Warning shots should be center mass.
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Warning shots should be center mass.
Put the second one in the head he's thinking with ;D
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Put the second one in the head he's thinking with ;D
Good plan!! I've never believed in meaningless gestures.
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"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work, but I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the universal language."
Anon. Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch
FIFY ;D
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I never said anything about shooting every threat, nor did I say anything about displaying a gun to every threat, but if yo pull your firearm you should intend to fire it. It is not a threat. If he quits, turns and runs, drops to his knees or in someway shows me that he is no longer a threat GREAT! But he better do it quick as he has about 1.7 seconds if I am wearing a tucked in shirt and less if I don't.
If I am not in fear for my life then he will never fear for his.
Sometimes all it takes is stopping and asking a question. MB related a tale of the few times he has had to draw on someone, in this case an intruder at the door, and MB said he pointed a small caliber weapon at the BG. The guy stopped his progress through the door, his eyes got real big, and he asked "What do I have to do to not die?"
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Warning shots should be center mass.
Correct. They will serve as a great warning for his accomplice.
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Sometimes all it takes is stopping and asking a question. MB related a tale of the few times he has had to draw on someone, in this case an intruder at the door, and MB said he pointed a small caliber weapon at the BG. The guy stopped his progress through the door, his eyes got real big, and he asked "What do I have to do to not die?"
Hmmm...I remember the story as a altercation with a biker in a food place and the biker moved as if to draw and MB beat him to it and the biker asked "What do I have to do to keep on living?"
It was a small caliber weapon though.
Of course it's a good story and can be tailored to fit any situation ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hmmm...I remember the story as a altercation with a biker in a food place and the biker moved as if to draw and MB beat him to it and the biker asked "What do I have to do to keep on living?"
It was a small caliber weapon though.
Of course it's a good story and can be tailored to fit any situation ;D ;D ;D ;D
Small caliber, medium caliber or large caliber...........I'll not be volunteering to stand in front of any of them anytime soon.
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Really?
. “Just give the robber what he wants. It’s not worth getting hurt over a few dollars.”
Would the same cops who counsel appeasing armed robbers tell a potential rape victim to lie back and make the best of it? They may if you live in Colorado Springs…[/b]
Please inform the LEO Sgt. to stop being an idiot. AMEN!!!
I would not have shot at the ground...IMHO....
This kinda stuff makes me spit nails every time I hear it.. If LEO gives his wife or daughter the same advice, how long before he gets effectively fired from said position?...
Didn't this "wisdom" originate from NYC about 30 years ago? That's where/when it came up on my radar, at least..
It turns my stomach..
Look, mislabeling people as "Sex Offender" is a real problem that has got to be addressed. So does inmate-inmate abuse in prisons, but just let it happen, from a LEO perspective!?!! No!.. Then the sorry bastard that steps in to prevent it with a firearm and shoots the perp off the girl goes to prison...
We don't need to wink at evil.. Chivalry is dying, still..
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We don't need to wink at evil.. Chivalry is dying, still..
And I will cheer its demise, as long as the women are strapped. ;)
2am:
"Honey, did you hear that?"
Yeah, it sounds like someone's downstairs".
"Well, aren't you going to check it out"?
"Me, didn't I buy you that AR-10 with the engraved magwell for Christmas? Check it out yourself". ;D ;D ;D
Now that is real feminism.
FQ13