The Down Range Forum
Flying Dragon Productions ( Michael Bane ) => Shooting Gallery on Outdoor Channel => Topic started by: jimmyk on January 25, 2012, 11:18:04 PM
-
Sorry, Michael, but it has. C'mon, your first show is on the Ruger Rimfire Challange? Snoozer..... I gave it a few more tries, but after tonight's IDPA show (where you sweat better than you shoot), I think I'm going to set my DVR to "do not record" for the rest of the season. And that live audience thing... well if that's a "live" they must be a bunch of wax figurines, because I never saw less emotion in my life. And the audience questions....ughh....
Now seriously, I'm not bashing the show just to be a jerk. I really enjoy Best Defense, especially with the new co-host. And I really, really enjoy your weekly podcast and your taste in music.
But the new shooting gallery....eh....and I wont even bash the new intro (wow...MB rides a bike...really cool...(sorry...just had to....))
My suggestion: get back to basics - we want to see GUNS, and lots of them....accessories....ammo....etc. Guns and Gear, I LOVE the show. I even enjoy watching the Davidson's Gun Genie show, lol.... One of my all time SG favorites was the MB vault episode.
You have SO MUCH talent. Its almost like you are struggling on this season's Shooting Gallery. Just do what comes naturally, like your music on the podcast.
Anyway, thanks for listening.
-
jimmyk may be a newby, but he has a point.
MB, aren't you the one who has said repeatedly on the podcasts and blog posts that competition shows are the lowest rated gun/shooting shows on the tube? But you then start the new 1-hour season with 2 out of 3 on competition?
I had the same sentiment as jimmyk after the first show, and the second show was much better. But then IDPA?
I know the 1st 1-hour season is in the can, and I will watch, but consider something different from competition for shows next year.
-
jimmyk, you may have a point, but I don't like the delivery. We should all be able to express our opinions... just don't be a smartass when you do it. I found the following comments to be rude and disrespectful:
~~~ (where you sweat better than you shoot) ~~~ they must be a bunch of wax figurines ~~~
(wow...MB rides a bike...really cool...(sorry...just had to....)) ~~~
Now for the show - I like it. Everything can be improved and I'm sure MB has some ideas about how to change and improve the new SG format. With each new season... with each new project... we have the opportunity to enjoy more of what we love to watch - shooting. Wednesday is my favorite TV evening. MB, thank you and keep up the good work.
-
I should probably go back and link to the various threads asking for more coverage of competition but I will just say , "You can't please every one".
-
Haters are gonna hate.
Just be thankful you have the opportunity to watch. Some of us don't have the opportunity to watch the show because we don't get the Outdoor Channel, stinking Comcast.
You can go back to watching American Idol now... ::)
-
Haters are gonna hate.
Just be thankful you have the opportunity to watch. Some of us don't have the opportunity to watch the show because we don't get the Outdoor Channel, stinking Comcast.
You can go back to watching American Idol now... ::)
Switching to Comcast when we move. No more Outdoor Channel soon. Sad. We will be getting Sportsman's Channel for the first time, though.
-
Comcast carries the Outdoor Channel but its on a premium package that will run me about another $300 a year or so (thats a lot of ammo). I think I may be able to get it ala carte and have been meaning to look into but it keeps slipping my mind.
-
I don't know if comcast carries it but there is the Pursuit Channel. It is a free channel on Dish and i think also in Direct. On Dish it is channel 240.
-
Comcast carries the Outdoor Channel but its on a premium package that will run me about another $300 a year or so (thats a lot of ammo). I think I may be able to get it ala carte and have been meaning to look into but it keeps slipping my mind.
It's not available at all where we're moving. Not even a la carte. Bummer.
-
jimmyk, you may have a point, but I don't like the delivery. We should all be able to express our opinions... just don't be a smartass when you do it. I found the following comments to be rude and disrespectful:
Now for the show - I like it. Everything can be improved and I'm sure MB has some ideas about how to change and improve the new SG format. With each new season... with each new project... we have the opportunity to enjoy more of what we love to watch - shooting. Wednesday is my favorite TV evening. MB, thank you and keep up the good work.
Geez, don't get you're panties in a wad. I was KIDDING. I have the greatest respect and admiration for what Michael Bane has done for the shooting sports and the second amendment. I just hope the show takes a different direction next season.
-
jimmyk, you may have a point, but I don't like the delivery. We should all be able to express our opinions... just don't be a smartass when you do it. I found the following comments to be rude and disrespectful:
Now for the show - I like it. Everything can be improved and I'm sure MB has some ideas about how to change and improve the new SG format. With each new season... with each new project... we have the opportunity to enjoy more of what we love to watch - shooting. Wednesday is my favorite TV evening. MB, thank you and keep up the good work.
WTF !
That would eliminate about a 1/3 of my posts and probably 3/4 of M'ette's.
;D
-
Wow,
I really enjoyed the IDPA episode. I thought it was a nice introduction and explanation of the sport for people that don't know what it is. Even though I have seen several other shows cover the subject, I still learned a few things about it. You can always learn something new even though you know a lot.
-
BAC, Comcast/Commie Cast ;D does it opposite in Indiana where I live. I get the Outdoor Channel but lost the Sportsmans Channel. I can pay for it at a premium.
-
I liked the IDPA show...but I know the match director.
I like the concealed carry information.
Michael,
Consider adding segment about hardware choices and the pluses and minuses based upon the venue you are filming. Something that sometimes compliments The Best Defense and goes into some depth. For instance for AR's the virtues and vices of the old style sling, the three point sling (that can get you tangled up and killed) and the single point sling. You could do the same thing with optics on AR's for inside the home defense, home out to yard distance of 50 to 100 yards and then beyond...each optic type has a niche' for that and even that niche' depends on the application...my thoughts being self defense. How can you use a range finder and bullet compensation when hunting antelope, and what are the considerations of the application when choosing features for the hardware? You can easily distance yourself from direct brand endorsements during the segment...and still have infrequently advertised manufacturers vie for some time behind the $egment without commenting on individual preferences.
I also like the Whittington Center episode....a good forum for an indepth explanation of hardware choices in clothing, footwear, packs, gun cases/holsters, water bottles, etc. Not all in one show, just one...next year pick another one or two.
-
Wow,
I really enjoyed the IDPA episode. I thought it was a nice introduction and explanation of the sport for people that don't know what it is. Even though I have seen several other shows cover the subject, I still learned a few things about it. You can always learn something new even though you know a lot.
+1
I liked the IDPA show.
I like the concealed carry information.
Michael,
Consider adding segment about hardware choices and the pluses and minuses based upon the venue you are filming. Something that sometimes compliments The Best Defense and goes into some depth. For instance for AR's the virtues and vices of the old style sling, the three point sling (that can get you tangled up and killed) and the single point sling. You could do the same thing with optics on AR's for inside the home defense, home out to yard distance of 50 to 100 yards and then beyond...each optic type has a niche' for that and even that niche' depends on the application...my thoughts being self defense. How can you use a range finder and bullet compensation when hunting antelope, and what are the considerations of the application when choosing features for the hardware? You can easily distance yourself from direct brand endorsements during the segment...and still have infrequently advertised manufacturers vie for some time behind the $egment without commenting on individual preferences.
I also like the Whittington Center episode....a good forum for an indepth explanation of hardware choices in clothing, footwear, packs, gun cases/holsters, water bottles, etc. Not all in one show, just one...next year pick another one or two.
And another +1
You guys saved me some typing, thanks!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
In truth, you throw things onto the wall and see what sticks. Overall, the ratings for SG are up 25% over last year same time period, and we are once again sold out on sponsorships...which is a very good place to be.
I knew from the beginning that we would all have to "find" the right mix, especially with the main "movie." Unfortunately, no battle plan survives first encounter with the enemy...Helmuth von Moltke the Elder said that when he was chief of the German General Staff in the 1850s...it remains one of my fundamental operating dictums. Our budgeting was delayed 60 days, and I had to cancel a number of SG filming sessions. We also weren't sure until the last minute whether we were going to go forward on the 1-hour format. those 2 factor combined meant that I had to fall back more on established competition than I had originally intended. The reason for that is how complicated it is to set up an SG "main movie" from the ground up.It took literally months of negotiation just to to set up the upcoming HOLLYWOOD GUNS show...ditto for ZERO TO HERO...forget THE O.K. CORRAL ep! That was a terrifying nightmare to pull together...I couldn't even keep straight which lies I was telling to whom!
Marshal and I had a long talk about competition this morning...I get a huge amount of requests for "more competition," but I have a gut-level feeling that that demand is coming from a relatively small set of people. Typically, competition shows tend to be popular with people who shoot competition; less so with the much larger audience who doesn't. That's also the case with specifics...the more specific we get — which undeniably appeals to the hardcore audience — the faster we lose the the larger audience. The numbers don't lie. That's why I moved the training segments to the Internet, where they're pulling a lot of traffic.
We're in uncharted territory. No one has tried to do a gun show like this; there are no formulas or, heck, even rules. We roll the dice. Jimmy K, there will be less competition next season because thanks to the success of the show I have a little longer planning horizon. Ultimately, the show becomes more experience-oriented...I'm looking at bring some additional regulars on board, a la TOP GEAR, and one of the main duties of whomever ends up on board will be regular detailed gun stuff. I also have some changes for the live audience segments. Ultimately, I have to build the show for the big audience...every so often my overlords remind me that I'm in television and the reason the ratings for my shows swamp my analogs on other networks is I focus on the bigger picture, so to speak.
Well, maybe...
I told the bosses it would take me 3 seasons to "build out" the new format, and I still think that's pretty much my target. My goal is to more fully integrate the broadcast product with DRTV, so we can deal with the specifics on the Internet...I had no idea such an integration would be so hard to accomplish.
And I will still be doing things that I think are important to the culture, for example, Ruger Rimfire competitions. It's critical for all of us who are competition shooters that the current huge growth in competition shooting continues, and the Ruger matches are now central to that strategy. BTW, we got great response from that show, mostly from pure newbies!
I want you guys to know that DRTV is important to me both as a sounding board and an way of getting the feedback we need to operate. In the world I presently live it, it is far too easy to "breath your own air." It's the nature of the business and the fact that all of us in this business have huge egos (as my Sweetie has reminded me more than once).
Don't worry to much about being "respectful"...you could probably look up the word "as&%ole" in the dictionary and find my picture!
Michael B
-
Oh yeah, and one more thing...the wisdom of the Kinks:
"And those who are successful
Be always on your guard
Success walks hand-in-hand with failure
Along Hollywood Boulevard..."
mb
-
Oh yeah, and one more thing...the wisdom of the Kinks:
"And those who are successful
Be always on your guard
Success walks hand-in-hand with failure
Along Hollywood Boulevard..."
mb
Great. Now I have to listen to lots of Kinks. Thanks MB!
-
Michael,
I know you worked with Joel Barker in the past, and so you are aware its best to see when the prevailing paradigm is on its way out and a new one is emerging.
Here's my $0.45 ($0.02 adjusted for inflation ;) ):
I think your show should migrate to a more focused content delivery mechanism. The obvious medium to deliver that is the Internet right now. I hardly ever watch TV anymore. I watch the shows I like on various sites. Some charge for view but most of it is free. I don't know but I think the days of broadcast/cable TV are going the way of the dinosaurs.
But in the interim, I wish you the best!
Take care,
George
-
In truth, you throw things onto the wall and see what sticks. Overall, the ratings for SG are up 25% over last year same time period, and we are once again sold out on sponsorships...which is a very good place to be.
<snip>
Marshal and I had a long talk about competition this morning...I get a huge amount of requests for "more competition," but I have a gut-level feeling that that demand is coming from a relatively small set of people. Typically, competition shows tend to be popular with people who shoot competition; less so with the much larger audience who doesn't. That's also the case with specifics...the more specific we get — which undeniably appeals to the hardcore audience — the faster we lose the the larger audience. The numbers don't lie. That's why I moved the training segments to the Internet, where they're pulling a lot of traffic.
<snip>
Don't worry to much about being "respectful"...you could probably look up the word "as&%ole" in the dictionary and find my picture!
Michael B
Congratulations on the sponsorships. That means we get more SG.
You're probably right on the competition as it wasn't until I shot a couple contests and began to recognized the names & faces that I got interested so...maybe add some more to educate us about "industry professional shooters" like Todd Jarrett, Phil Strader, Baby Huey, etc. with a background segment (sorta like Paul Harvey?) to help make them recognizable names....maybe a PRO-AM Ruger segment. I like what you're doing with the recognizable actors in shooting steel and timing them....you could have a pro help a shooter & compare the before/after time improvement..use that pro help to help us in various facets where we are weak???? This strengthens the shooting community...bring in some of the hot shot deer, duck, varmint hunters from the Outdoor Channel and put them across from Mike Seeklander, Michael Janich or Rob Pincus....that would be a hoot and some of those guys can really use the humble pie.
Sure enough, looked it up, no picture but print:
ass·hole noun \ˈas-ˌ(h)ōl\
Definition of ASSHOLE
1. usually vulgar : anus 2a. usually vulgar : a stupid, incompetent, or detestable person b usually vulgar : the worst place —used in phrases like asshole of the world 3. Michael Bane 4. Raylan Givens 5. Male eqivalent of a cobra bitch in heat being poked with a stick.
First Known Use of ASSHOLE
14th century
-
Michael, thank you for responding to my original post. You're a true gentleman for not bashing me after all those DB comments I made (all of which are true of course). Seriously though, maybe the reason for my lack of interest in competition shooting is that my gun foundation was never part of it. I'm 51 years old. Until 15 years ago, my only guns were my dad's Winchester 22lr Model 77 from the late 50's and my grandfather's 12ga single shot H&R Topper (from before the dawn of time), both of which were sitting in the back of my closet rusting. My gun foundation is solidly rooted in "Gun Culture 2.0" (a perfect expression coined by you). I quickly became addicted after obtaining my CFL and in the last 15 years have been fortunate enough to amass a nice "collection" (..or arsenal as my wife refers to it....). Hence my curiosity and fascination with guns, sights, accessories, ammo, holsters, training, etc. Basically, everything about shooting except hunting and competition.
I think a LOT of GC2.0 people like me are not into hunting or competition, but instead, concerned about self defense and, in general, just like to play with things that go bang (the louder the better) and hit a bullseye or clang a target 100 yards out. Also, you need to recognize that a lot of GC1.0 people are older and not into the internet or cable TV thing. Most are hunters and occasional shooters, and there is NOTHING wrong with that as long as we ALL belong to the NRA, the SAF, etc. and ALL recognize that there is NO difference between my dad's Winchester Model 77 and my S&W M&P15.
Keep up the good work. I know its a "work in progress". And no, I will NEVER set my DVR to "do not record". You have a fan for life.
BTW, your quote from "Celluloid Heroes" - I think my first post on this board was to tell you how amazed I was that you played that ENTIRE song on the podcast.
-
Congratulations on the sponsorships. That means we get more SG.
You're probably right on the competition as it wasn't until I shot a couple contests and began to recognized the names & faces that I got interested so...maybe add some more to educate us about "industry professional shooters" like Todd Jarrett, Phil Strader, Baby Huey, etc. with a background segment (sorta like Paul Harvey?) to help make them recognizable names....maybe a PRO-AM Ruger segment. I like what you're doing with the recognizable actors in shooting steel and timing them....you could have a pro help a shooter & compare the before/after time improvement..use that pro help to help us in various facets where we are weak???? This strengthens the shooting community...bring in some of the hot shot deer, duck, varmint hunters from the Outdoor Channel and put them across from Mike Seeklander, Michael Janich or Rob Pincus....that would be a hoot and some of those guys can really use the humble pie.
Sure enough, looked it up, no picture but print:
ass·hole noun \ˈas-ˌ(h)ōl\
Definition of ASSHOLE
1. usually vulgar : anus 2a. usually vulgar : a stupid, incompetent, or detestable person b usually vulgar : the worst place —used in phrases like asshole of the world 3. Michael Bane 4. Raylan Givens 5. Male eqivalent of a cobra bitch in heat being poked with a stick.
First Known Use of ASSHOLE
14th century
[/size]
The best thing about this forum is the wealth of information !
That might actually be handy to know some day ;D
-
I've bit my lip and sat on my typing fingers for a while on this one, but that ain't my nature ;)
Michael and others:
I like the new format! It is not the same, it is not aimed at hardcore gun guys, and it has some cheesy factors to make it appealing to others. However, we now have a full hour of Shooting Gallery, and we still have Best Defense! You may not have doubled what we were getting, but you gave us more than we were getting, and you added some new things that are worthwhile.
Keep bringin' it!!!
Thanks!
-
Every success buys a little more...RAPID FIRE is coming Q4 2012; we're looking at a Internet/DRTV series built around the .22 LR for the rest of this year. We're laying out expanded plans for SG 2013 already, and it's stuff we couldn't have imagined dough a couple of years ago...
mb
-
MB, thanks for the detailed and very reasonable explanation. It is too bad that you have to keep proving yourself to people who should know better <cough> TOC <cough>!
Under the circumstances you faced, your solution makes complete sense, especially in light of your previous - and repeated - views on the appeal of competition shows.
And thanks for the updates for coming years - sounds very cool. I presume, however, that your smart phone was trying to be helpful, and "dough" was supposed to be "doing"? ? ? ? ?
-
Sure enough, looked it up, no picture but print:
ass·hole noun \ˈas-ˌ(h)ōl\
Definition of ASSHOLE
1. usually vulgar : anus 2a. usually vulgar : a stupid, incompetent, or detestable person b usually vulgar : the worst place —used in phrases like asshole of the world 3. Michael Bane 4. Raylan Givens 5. Male eqivalent of a cobra bitch in heat being poked with a stick.
First Known Use of ASSHOLE
14th century
Ah-ha!!!!!
According to my wife, there's another name that could, at times, be added to that list.............
A 14th century man in a 21st century world.........
What?
;)
Rectum?
Rectum, hell, it nearly killed 'em.........
-
MB I got on the forum after a time away specifically to tell you I really like the new SG format. This thread surprised me. I really enjoyed seeing Ian H competing he brings a lot of energy and fun. I got a lot from your IDPA match, but then I have been wanting to start trying that.
I think the smartest thing you all did is the celebrity shootout. Having lived in CA for 25 year and seen how much Hollywood is is like a small high school, I believe that you have a good chance of becoming the next IN thing there and knocking a hole their knee jerk anti gun bias. They have all been pretending to use guns on the screen for years. If who has been on the Celeb shoot out become the next pet rock craze there it could be really interesting. I can see it now new SG season 5: Danny Glover vs. Susan Sarandon where they both try to explain how they have always liked guns... :)
Grill the shark
Joe
-
Before the blizzard hit, I went over to our studios in Evergreen to do voice-over work on an upcoming episode of SG. That episode is pure "gun nerd" stuff, following Hamilton Bowen in his creation of a big bore (.500 Linebaugh) "Nimrod" revolver and visiting with Bill Laughridge about his perfect recreation of the 1911 EXACLY as John Moses Browning designed it.
I'm really excited about the Celebrity Shoot-Out...next season you'll see country music stars and NASCAR drivers added to the mix. The Shoot-Out seems to have captured a lot of people's imagination. We seem to be putting together a "Replacement Killers," one of my favorite movies, reunion. Can a "Boondock Saints" reunion be far behind?
Michael B
-
Michael,
I know you are on a budget, and everything takes time and money, but have you considered a road trip of shooting? What is going on in the small local clubs?
You could stop in and interview the local trap club that pours money out of their pocket to support the youth trap and skeet sport; maybe the club that shoots bullseye and smallbore and supports airgun and smallbore youth; Cowboy, long range, USPSA, IDPA, etc. There is a lot of coverage of the big names and big events. There is a lot of coverage of the spectacular. But, there is not a lot of exposure of the small groups and small clubs that show how any community can enjoy and promote shooting sports.
-
The problem is that we live in a world of ratings...we did exactly that with COWBOYS, for exactly the reasons you stated, and we got our head handed to us on a platter. I got a lot of "cut the boring crap" email. I thought the shows were darned interesting or I wouldn't have signed off on them.
It's sort of like the "kids shooting" conundrum...EVERYONE says they want to see more young people shooting on TV. The lowest ratings I've ever gotten have been on youth shooting shows. That tells me that while we may honestly be interested in getting more young people to come into the shootingsports — and we are — we don't want to see them do it.
Years back, I did write an executive summary, the primary selling tool for television shows, of a traveling shoot show, but it focused on special events, exotic competitions, etc. I may yet be able to sell it.
I once had a charming lunch with Sidney Biddles Barrow, the so-called and quite notorious Mayflower Madam. In the course of that lunch, I asked her what she could tell me that I didn't know about men and sex. She laughed and said when she got into the "business," she asked all her men friends what they wanted in a prospective lover. The overwhelming answer was, "wholesome," "freckles," "red-haired," "cute," "country girl"...you get the picture. So she said she combed the Midwest and for just those type of women, recruited them and...they simply couldn't get work. No guy was interested in these wholesome, milk-fed beauties. I realized, Ms. Barrow said, that I had asked the wrong question. It's not "what men want," but "what men will pay for." And in the end, men will pay for "blonde and boobs."
That lunch has served me well in the television business...LOL!
Michael B
-
Understood! I accepted long ago that I am not in the majority, and I continue to just live with that fact.
-
The problem is that we live in a world of ratings...we did exactly that with COWBOYS, for exactly the reasons you stated, and we got our head handed to us on a platter. I got a lot of "cut the boring crap" email. I thought the shows were darned interesting or I wouldn't have signed off on them.
It's sort of like the "kids shooting" conundrum...EVERYONE says they want to see more young people shooting on TV. The lowest ratings I've ever gotten have been on youth shooting shows. That tells me that while we may honestly be interested in getting more young people to come into the shootingsports — and we are — we don't want to see them do it.
Years back, I did write an executive summary, the primary selling tool for television shows, of a traveling shoot show, but it focused on special events, exotic competitions, etc. I may yet be able to sell it.
I once had a charming lunch with Sidney Biddles Barrow, the so-called and quite notorious Mayflower Madam. In the course of that lunch, I asked her what she could tell me that I didn't know about men and sex. She laughed and said when she got into the "business," she asked all her men friends what they wanted in a prospective lover. The overwhelming answer was, "wholesome," "freckles," "red-haired," "cute," "country girl"...you get the picture. So she said she combed the Midwest and for just those type of women, recruited them and...they simply couldn't get work. No guy was interested in these wholesome, milk-fed beauties. I realized, Ms. Barrow said, that I had asked the wrong question. It's not "what men want," but "what men will pay for." And in the end, men will pay for "blonde and boobs."
That lunch has served me well in the television business...LOL!
Michael B
And thus was born M'ette? ? ? ? ? ?
running for the corner......
-
...Some of us don't have the opportunity to watch the show because we don't get the Outdoor Channel, stinking Comcast.
FYI, I guess it depends on where you are. I have Comcast here in Forsyth County Ga, and get Outdoor (twice actually, ch 270 in normal, and 748 in HD). Also get Sportsman Channel, but not in HD (of course, no MB shows there, but good glad I get it!).
-
" And in the end, men will pay for "blonde and boobs."
That lunch has served me well in the television business...LOL!
Michael B
hmmmm.... maybe you need to do some selective co-host selection.
I bet almost any competition would draw viewers if, say, Jessie Harrison were to help narrate the event. Any firearms topic would draw viewers with her helping out. Shoot, we might tune in to see her watch grass grow if there were enough camera angles ;D ;D ;D
-
It's not "what men want," but "what men will pay for." And in the end, men will pay for "blonde and boobs."
That lunch has served me well in the television business...LOL!
Michael B
More Jessie Duff ... More Jessie Duff ... More Jessie Duff
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
What? She's not blond you say ??? I guess I never get above her shoulders ;)
More Julie G ... More Julie G ... More Julie G
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Gotta throw my hat in with the OP.
I'm out with Shooting Gallery - use to love it - now its not keeping my attention, its going in the direction MB wants it to go and its doing better than years past - just with out me on board.
Sad thing is Best Defense has lost me too.
I just can't warm up to Mike Seeklander - I watch it - the audio is still junk for me - and just can't wrap my brain around a new co-host so I stopped watching it after the third show and have not gone back.
For me Rob IS the shooting host of Best Defense - who the hell is this imposter.
Still like BDS - and Gun Stories when I'm interested in the gun.. if not it does not stay on more than 5 min.
Pod Cast is an always - must get my weekley dose of MB brain drippings.
I try to look at Tom Gresham's Guns & Gear but it is more of a long running commercial than informative.
But OP is correct - the shark be jumped.
(for me)
-
I have to admit....the first few shows were somewhat tedious....but then SG hit its stride and did some great shows like Tombstone, supressors, and future guns. The Hollywood guns on the CRIMINAL MINDS set was fantastic! Keep shooting for the Gun Culture 2.0 audience, and we will watch....
-
I registered just to add my own opinion to this thread...
Like the OP, I too think the new format is....just awful The content, mind you, is fine, please keep it diverse and fresh and you'll keep everyone coming for more. Show me someone who doesn't like competition segments, I'll show you someone who does. You can't keep everyone happy, so don't try to.
Audience interstitial format:
This is embarrassing in its awkwardness. Smacks of small town cable access. From a casting POV, they all tend to be old and white, which makes the format appear at a glance to be a talk show for the white power division of the AARP. They ask you overly rehearsed questions in a stilted manner, then you proceed to turn away to answer to the camera. The whole thing makes me cringe.
- Lose the audience entirely. It serves no purpose.
- If and when necessary, shoot these interstitial segments with you, by yourself, against a more content-appropriate backdrop.
Celebrity Rimfire Challenge:
Fine, but for most of these segments their resume does not standout enough to allow them to hide buried under ballcap and shooting glasses. If you don't know the obscure TV show they used to be on or the character they played in that movie ten years ago, you certainly won't be able to visually recognize them either.
- Ask that they do the interview portion with these removed when possible, then put them on for shooting.
Watching them run through the course of fire five times is terribly redundant and disinteresting.
- Show two strings, then use graphics to show how they did in five overall. Cut to the chase.
-
Call me a gun geek, but I like watching them shoot all five strings - no matter how painful it is. All of us that shoot competition or just for fun remember those learning days. I do agree that I would like to see a graphic showing all five times, the throw away, and the current standings.
Keep up the good work MB!
-
Call me a gun geek, but I like watching them shoot all five strings - no matter how painful it is. All of us that shoot competition or just for fun remember those learning days. I do agree that I would like to see a graphic showing all five times, the throw away, and the current standings.
Keep up the good work MB!
+1
-
Call me a gun geek.......
OK, GUN GEEK.
:)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
The problem is that we live in a world of ratings...we did exactly that with COWBOYS, for exactly the reasons you stated, and we got our head handed to us on a platter. I got a lot of "cut the boring crap" email. I thought the shows were darned interesting or I wouldn't have signed off on them.
It's sort of like the "kids shooting" conundrum...EVERYONE says they want to see more young people shooting on TV. The lowest ratings I've ever gotten have been on youth shooting shows. That tells me that while we may honestly be interested in getting more young people to come into the shootingsports — and we are — we don't want to see them do it.
Years back, I did write an executive summary, the primary selling tool for television shows, of a traveling shoot show, but it focused on special events, exotic competitions, etc. I may yet be able to sell it.
I once had a charming lunch with Sidney Biddles Barrow, the so-called and quite notorious Mayflower Madam. In the course of that lunch, I asked her what she could tell me that I didn't know about men and sex. She laughed and said when she got into the "business," she asked all her men friends what they wanted in a prospective lover. The overwhelming answer was, "wholesome," "freckles," "red-haired," "cute," "country girl"...you get the picture. So she said she combed the Midwest and for just those type of women, recruited them and...they simply couldn't get work. No guy was interested in these wholesome, milk-fed beauties. I realized, Ms. Barrow said, that I had asked the wrong question. It's not "what men want," but "what men will pay for." And in the end, men will pay for "blonde and boobs."
That lunch has served me well in the television business...LOL!
Michael B
Major thread drift ahead.... Hollywood madaam Heidi Fleiss had written a book called Panderings. It was actually more of a scrapbook, really. I pee'ed away an hour or so at a local Border's bookstore flipping through it.
One kernel of wisdom that I had to laugh at was this quote:
The biggest thing in a man's pants should be his wallet.
-
I hate to bring up a competitor's name, but I really like the format of the PowerFactorShow on YouTube, but then again, I compete.
And it's subsequent target audience is probably like 0.001% of all the gunowners in the whole United States.
I am too cheap to get cable or to pay for cable, and YouTube is...well...free!
I have never downloaded one single solitary podcast from anybody, wouldn't even know how.
A friend a few years back looked into starting his own show. He said it would cost $35,000 to buy a half hour block of time on such and such channel. So he went on to tell me that you have to get advertisers or line up advertisers who pay you enough to run their commercials during that half hour block, plus money to pay your salary, the producer's salary, camerman's salary, etc....etc....
So if Michael Bane is able to talk these marketing guys at this various companies (Husqvarna?) out of $70,000 for an hour of TV time, LOOK OUT! Michael can probably sell ice to an eskimo! :o
I'd be curious, Michael, just exactly how do you get feedback from the Outdoor Channel has far as ratings go, or viewership numbers???
-
Nielson ?
-
Nielsen and Rentrack...Nielsen is the "traditional" ratings' service, using a sampling of families across the country equipped with Nielsen Set Meters. Rentrack draws their data from people's cable/sat boxes and provides an in-depth look at viewing habits.
I am also sensitive to "non-traditional" audience feedback mechanisms, including the various firearms forums — especially DRTV, because we have a years-long direct dialogue on programming — post-episode Internet traffic (a measure of "buzz," more or less), email volume and tone, industry sales data and trending lines (for example,the 9mm single stack line is sharply upward), national trending lines on issues like RKBA, gun control legislation, etc., what my competition — print and electronic — is doing, and any other piece of data I can lay my hands on.
There's a phrase I remember from the early days of personal computers...data is data; information is power. After you assemble all this data, the most important thing is to figure out what it all means. It's not enough to know, as I do for Season 12 of SG, that competition episodes are trending upward...I need to have some idea of why competition shows are suddenly more popular. Is it our treatment of those shows within the longer format? A new audience coming into competition? Cooler people in the shooting sports (hey, gotta ask!)? To help me analyze data I reach out to my producing partners — Marshal, John Carter, Mike Long, Tim Cremin — and people who have historically been excellent at analyzing trends (Paul Erhardt and Jim Shepherd come to mind) and people within the firearms industry whose job it is to figure trends on firearms sales.
The reason I need to know all this stuff is to make my best guess of what the first six months of 2013 will look like as the environment for SHOOTING GALLERY and THE BEST DEFENSE. Is the rise in interest in competitions solid, for example, or just a temporary burp?
I'm already all-in for GUN STORIES (Q3 2012), where we're already rolling the cameras, and RAPID FIRE (Q4 2012), which will film next month...and I'm working with the producers of OC's newest, ELITE TACTICAL UNIT, which I can't talk to you about just yet.
So far, I have had major planning session on SG and TBD lining up changes for 2013. I can tell you that TBD will move closer to concealed carry, and I'm tentatively planning on expanding Marty Hayes' legal segment. For SG, expect a much more sophisticated studio set-up (more like the final wrap-up show of this last season) and a different way of working with the audience; more specific segments (part of the long-term plan on "building out" the TOP GEAR format, and a new co-host. On the new segments, for example, I moved all the training segments off the broadcast product to DRTV for Season 12; next season we plan to tweak that and bring back a short training segment each week to broadcast, and you can see the complete segment on DRTV.
And BTW, I believe I am the only producer I know of who'd tell this much about what he or she does! This is the Land of Paranoia, after all...
Michael B
-
Gun ownership among the general public seems to have exploded in the past few years.
the increase in "why competition shows are suddenly more popular" could be related to new shooters looking for a recreational purpose other than hunting and plinking.
Just a thought.
-
I agree with you, Tom...after massive discussions, we tend to think of the new interest in competition as a reflection of the growth of Gun Culture Ver. 2.0...
mb
-
So far, I have had major planning session on SG and TBD lining up changes for 2013. I can tell you that TBD will move closer to concealed carry, and I'm tentatively planning on expanding Marty Hayes' legal segment. For SG, expect a much more sophisticated studio set-up (more like the final wrap-up show of this last season) and a different way of working with the audience; more specific segments (part of the long-term plan on "building out" the TOP GEAR format, and a new co-host. On the new segments, for example, I moved all the training segments off the broadcast product to DRTV for Season 12; next season we plan to tweak that and bring back a short training segment each week to broadcast, and you can see the complete segment on DRTV.
And BTW, I believe I am the only producer I know of who'd tell this much about what he or she does! This is the Land of Paranoia, after all...
Michael B
Thank you for the insight Michael. IMHO, the highlighted parts are going to be a big improvement.
I was always wishing the legal section was a bit longer but I understand that different states are so varied that Marty is walking on eggshells. Maybe a walk through for Class 3 stuff - I really would like to know more on the Trust aspect of ownership.
The audience could go away completely and wouldn't be missed. You could get as much emotion from emails.
Personally, not being a competitive handgun shooter, I think match coverage is boring....and I watch PGA golf!
I shoot competitive Trap but would hate to watch it on TV. I can barely stand to watch it in person if I'm not pulling the trigger. For me, I think it has to do with the lack of depth perception on TV and not being able to really appreciate the true nature/difficulty of the COF.
No biggie, I have a FF button on the remote.
Keep up the good work! ;D ;D
-
One thing you could do that would stun every one in the industry.
Evaluate a firearm and conclude that it is a ho hum, just another, or that it is a POS with poor workmanship, instead of everything being the latest and greatest must have.
I realize that last part is really difficult for a true gun person since even that stupid double 1911 has an oddness appeal to the people who just love anything that goes bang ;D
-
One thing you could do that would stun every one in the industry.
Evaluate a firearm and conclude that it is a ho hum, just another, or that it is a POS with poor workmanship, instead of everything being the latest and greatest must have.
I realize that last part is really difficult for a true gun person since even that stupid double 1911 has an oddness appeal to the people who just love anything that goes bang-bang ;D
FIFY ;)
-
Realistically, Tom, the whole "POS with poor workmanship" is mostly th fevered fantasies of Internet fanboys...in this market and under current regulations, a real POS with shoddy workmanship would result in the company being sued into the Twilight Zone. Does anybody really believe that gun companies conspire to put out special guns that don't work, are inaccurate or made of failure prone materials? When they do screw up, as Ruger did with the SR9, it costs them millions to make it right, which came right off their bottom line... And it's worth noting the company caught the problem long before it was an issue with end users.
The gigantic vast majority of Internet venom about POS guns comes down to, "I don't like it," "I have wildly unrealistic expectations," or "I'm too damn cheap to buy anything but crap ammunition and I'm puzzled why it doesn't work well." Cheap stuff doesn't have the fit or finish of expensive stuff...surprise. All guns are ammo-sensitive to some degree...surprise. If it's a new gun and there's a problem with it, the gun companies will stand behind their product..surprise. All guns fail occasionally...as do all things made by human hands...surprise. 99% of the guns made today will shoot better than their owners can hold...surprise.
There are definitely individual POS guns...I've had my share. But when I got another example they worked as specified. I'm luckier than most because I get to shoot a larger sample of guns than most, and when you shoot more than one sample you have a very different view. And when I have a problem with a gun, I ask for an explanation from the company...how did this happen and what steps are you taking to make sure it doesn't happen again? I have walked into gun companies and asked to see their rework line, then counted the number of guns in for repair. I've sat in customer service departments and discussed customers and problems. I've taken issues I've heard on the Internet to manufacturers and asked whether the problems were true.
It frustrates me, to be sure. If I could find a freakin' toaster that worked half as well as the crummiest gun I've ever bought, I'd be a happy man!
Michael B
-
The gigantic vast majority of Internet venom about POS guns comes down to, "I don't like it," "I have wildly unrealistic expectations," or "I'm too damn cheap to buy anything but crap ammunition and I'm puzzled why it doesn't work well." Cheap stuff doesn't have the fit or finish of expensive stuff...surprise. All guns are ammo-sensitive to some degree...surprise. If it's a new gun and there's a problem with it, the gun companies will stand behind their product..surprise. All guns fail occasionally...as do all things made by human hands...surprise. 99% of the guns made today will shoot better than their owners can hold...surprise.
Michael B
Pretty much brings the face of the hammer in contact with the head of the nail.......... IMHO, FWIW.
-
Pretty much brings the face of the hammer in contact with the head of the nail.......... IMHO, FWIW.
Not really.
While I will agree that the threat of law suits coupled with the comparing of notes the internet allows limits the amount of true POS guns available MB's answer is not entirely true.
For example, the Ruger LCP, when that came out it was like revealed truth.
Crap, it's nothing more or less than a Kel Tec clone.
I could put a rail and Crimson Trace grips on a Dragoon Colt and there is not a person in the industry who would say "It's nothing but a dressed up obsolete abortion". No, they would brag about it's "tactical innovation".
Heard any of the "Professionals tell the truth about the "tactical lever action" (Mossberg IIRC ) with the AR collapsible stock ?
The fact is that it is ugly and looks ridiculous .
Some one who actually called BS on stupidity like this, or the double 1911 cobbled together in a recent thread would be a much needed breath of fresh air.
-
The fact is that it is ugly and looks ridiculous .
Some will agree... and some will disagree. Appearance is in the eye of the beholder. As with any other product, consumers base their purchasing decisions on many things... appearance, perceived value, brand, price, etc. I think one's opinion of that gun is also determined, in part, by previous experience or ownership of traditional lever guns. The more "mature" among us (and I can be counted here) may view this departure from the traditional lever gun as simply too extreme - and therefore "ugly." We must remember, though, that consumers new to the gun culture will not have these same biases. The marketplace will determine whether or not that particular firearm succeeds.
-
I agree with the quote from Tom below:
Gun ownership among the general public seems to have exploded in the past few years.
the increase in "why competition shows are suddenly more popular" could be related to new shooters looking for a recreational purpose other than hunting and plinking.
Just a thought.
A separate mechanism for the popularity increase in competition shows, I believe, is that name recognition of the major players is "taking off". Feeding this name recognition are the Outdoor Channel shows and other network shows who have been "name dropping" for years. Viewers are getting to know the players and that makes it interesting. I suppose you could say the shows have been promoting and developing their product and now people know about it....marketing of a sorts.
Some viewers, like myself, have/had an opportunity to compete and actually see the major players in action which clinches the deal in name recognition and interest. Phil Strader's Pro-Am allowed me to compete on my beginning level next to and in squads with the major players. I don't think my case is isolated and that situations like this grow interest steadily. In the case of Mike (m58) he already had a thing for Julie and getting to shoot in her squad put him over the top....I'm just sayin'.... ;D
MB, I wonder if "Wednesday Night On The Range" viewership number's over the last few years correlates with interest in competition? An increase in viewership % may correlate with a corresponding % increase in competition interest. I would expect, if my first paragraph statement has validitiy, that there would be a lag between increases in viewership and increases in competition interest. I would also anticipate that once the lag period, if it exists, is over that the increase in competition interest would outstrip viewership increases for a while. Whether the suppositions are true or not, something fueling a real increase in competition interest may be ongoing from the evidence you presented and perhaps last year enjoyed a tipping point for competition shows.
-
Some will agree... and some will disagree. Appearance is in the eye of the beholder. As with any other product, consumers base their purchasing decisions on many things... appearance, perceived value, brand, price, etc. I think one's opinion of that gun is also determined, in part, by previous experience or ownership of traditional lever guns. The more "mature" among us (and I can be counted here) may view this departure from the traditional lever gun as simply too extreme - and therefore "ugly." We must remember, though, that consumers new to the gun culture will not have these same biases. The marketplace will determine whether or not that particular firearm succeeds.
Here's my thinking specifically on that lever action .
We have had several discussions on here about the lever gun for "tactical" ( I have come to hate that word ) uses.
The upshot is that it is 150 year old technology, however it's association with cowboys , and historic connotations make it acceptable to the mainstream public in places where "evil black rifles" are not, or are regulated or prohibited.
By adding all that tacticool crap you lose that advantage turning the rifle into a poor imitation of something it isn't.
If you want to sell me a modern carbine do that, don't dress up an antique and try to tell me it's something else.
Putting a tutu on a hippo doesn't make it a ballerina, but you have never heard that from the "gun media".
-
The tacticool Mossberg lever action, while being a bit silly, is completely illegal to buy here in MA!
Kinda makes Toms point...I can buy any lever action rifle made with the exception of that one!
-
Not really.
While I will agree that the threat of law suits coupled with the comparing of notes the internet allows limits the amount of true POS guns available MB's answer is not entirely true.
For example, the Ruger LCP, when that came out it was like revealed truth.
Crap, it's nothing more or less than a Kel Tec clone.
I could put a rail and Crimson Trace grips on a Dragoon Colt and there is not a person in the industry who would say "It's nothing but a dressed up obsolete abortion". No, they would brag about it's "tactical innovation".
Heard any of the "Professionals tell the truth about the "tactical lever action" (Mossberg IIRC ) with the AR collapsible stock ?
The fact is that it is ugly and looks ridiculous .
Some one who actually called BS on stupidity like this, or the double 1911 cobbled together in a recent thread would be a much needed breath of fresh air.
I don't disagree with you, but it still all boils down to OPINION.
Which why I was agreeing 100% with the excerpted part of what MB says.
Like it or not, industry standards pretty much mean that for the most part, guns work out of the box and folks can take them or leave them as they see fit. How many gun makers out there are making 'clones' of other guns and/or their design? The 1911? Glock? Basically all the plastic fantastic guns are a derivative (with some design mods of the Big G).
You ain't gonna get too many folks in the industry to sh!t where they eat, and I agree with you 100% that it would be refreshing to actually see it, but by and large it ain't gonna happen.
Public opinion and sales cause the ebb and flow.
Some will agree... and some will disagree. Appearance is in the eye of the beholder. As with any other product, consumers base their purchasing decisions on many things... appearance, perceived value, brand, price, etc. I think one's opinion of that gun is also determined, in part, by previous experience or ownership of traditional lever guns. The more "mature" among us (and I can be counted here) may view this departure from the traditional lever gun as simply too extreme - and therefore "ugly." We must remember, though, that consumers new to the gun culture will not have these same biases. The marketplace will determine whether or not that particular firearm succeeds.
Take the Hi-Point for example......ugly as a train wreck....clunky.....heavy for caliber......but I've shot several and like the Glock, they go BANG every time you press the go-lever.......and for 1/4 the price of "big name' pistols. That is why they are still around and why they sell.
-
There are still guns out there that fall in to the category of crap, take the Sig Mosquito for example,
Based on owner, (and former owner) comments posted on here, 8 out of 10 DON'T "go bang when the trigger is pulled".
Wasn't there a thread a couple years ago about the Rorbaugh pistol maker saying their pistol would be good for around 5000 rounds, it was not designed for high volume use ?
A $1000+ .380 with a limited life span is a POS I don't care who you are.
-
Tom...I do need to correct one point here...the lever action rifle is an efficient self-defense tool in and of itself, not simply because it's more PC in certain jurisdictions. The tool works, and works well. You may not like the looks of the Mossberg product, but that's your opinion. But looks have nothing to do with the gun's efficiency as a self-defense tool. In fact, adjustable stocks actually are pretty useful accessories if you have students. Because you don't like the look, color, ergonomics, tail fins, brand name of ANYTHING doesn't mean that thing is "bad," only that you don't like it.
The Boberg @ 5000 rounds working life? I believe when te military adopted the Beretta 92, 5000 rounds was the specified working life for a military pistol. I'd rather know what the manufacturer was thinking when the gun was designed. Also, I seriously doubt an ultralight small framed .357 revolver would survive 5000 rounds of 125-gr JHPs. Another one of my touchstones is that ALL tools have both specific uses and specific limitations. If I wanted to shoot hot .357s every day of my life, I would choose the appropriate tool to let me accomplish that goal...and it wouldn't be an aluminum/scandium/polymer frame snub.
And BTW, why do you suppose Kel-Tec didn't sue Ruger, Taurus, et omnes for patent violations? Hmmmmmmm...maybe because there weren't any patents, because the Kel-Tec .32s and .380s were nothing more than the logical extension of a pocket pistol line that goes all the way back to John Browning? Exactly the same reason everybody and his dog Fred makes 1911s...guns are old, old technology, and there's very little "stunning innovation" involved. To use a music analogy, it's more a question of how well your orchestra interprets Beethoven than the ability to write brand new forms of symphonies.
The Ruger LCP is one of the best-selling handguns of modern times; the Kel-Tec is a footnote. Why might that be? The free market is indeed heartless, but it remains the very best way for large groups of people to relate to each other on an economic landscape. I believe in the market.
Michael B
-
Tom...I do need to correct one point here...the lever action rifle is an efficient self-defense tool in and of itself, not simply because it's more PC in certain jurisdictions. The tool works, and works well. You may not like the looks of the Mossberg product, but that's your opinion. But looks have nothing to do with the gun's efficiency as a self-defense tool. In fact, adjustable stocks actually are pretty useful accessories if you have students. Because you don't like the look, color, ergonomics, tail fins, brand name of ANYTHING doesn't mean that thing is "bad," only that you don't like it.
The Boberg @ 5000 rounds working life? I believe when te military adopted the Beretta 92, 5000 rounds was the specified working life for a military pistol. I'd rather know what the manufacturer was thinking when the gun was designed. Also, I seriously doubt an ultralight small framed .357 revolver would survive 5000 rounds of 125-gr JHPs. Another one of my touchstones is that ALL tools have both specific uses and specific limitations. If I wanted to shoot hot .357s every day of my life, I would choose the appropriate tool to let me accomplish that goal...and it wouldn't be an aluminum/scandium/polymer frame snub.
And BTW, why do you suppose Kel-Tec didn't sue Ruger, Taurus, et omnes for patent violations? Hmmmmmmm...maybe because there weren't any patents, because the Kel-Tec .32s and .380s were nothing more than the logical extension of a pocket pistol line that goes all the way back to John Browning? Exactly the same reason everybody and his dog Fred makes 1911s...guns are old, old technology, and there's very little "stunning innovation" involved. To use a music analogy, it's more a question of how well your orchestra interprets Beethoven than the ability to write brand new forms of symphonies.
The Ruger LCP is one of the best-selling handguns of modern times; the Kel-Tec is a footnote. Why might that be? The free market is indeed heartless, but it remains the very best way for large groups of people to relate to each other on an economic landscape. I believe in the market.
Michael B
That's exactly my point .
No one else in the "gun media" would admit that if you held their feet in a fire, or water boarded them.
-
I was hoping to find Pinky Tuscadero from Happy Days on this thread. Had the biggest crush on her in the 70's. I would have jumped a shark for her.
Where is this shark thingy???
-
I was hoping to find Pinky Tuscadero from Happy Days on this thread. Had the biggest crush on her in the 70's. I would have jumped a shark for her.
Where is this shark thingy???
Leather Tuscadero is actually a distant cousin of mine. True story.
-
Well, as explained in the last podcast. Competition may not be what your interested in, old timer. But, as Michael calls them, Gun Culture 2.0, this is all new to them. Competition is definitely on their minds. Hell, I've even thought about an IDPA match or two and I've been shooting for 30 years. Here's a thought. If you don't want to watch the episodes with competition, then don't. I think you might just learn something if you did watch and whats the harm in that.
Chad
Horn Lake, MS
-
What it really boils down to is MB is not interested in appealing to a particular group of gun owners , but to all current or potential gun owners.
You don't like what he's doing this week, don't watch the episode, he'll have something different next week.
-
The gigantic vast majority of Internet venom about POS guns comes down to, "I don't like it," "I have wildly unrealistic expectations," or "I'm too damn cheap to buy anything but crap ammunition and I'm puzzled why it doesn't work well." Cheap stuff doesn't have the fit or finish of expensive stuff...surprise. All guns are ammo-sensitive to some degree...surprise. If it's a new gun and there's a problem with it, the gun companies will stand behind their product..surprise. All guns fail occasionally...as do all things made by human hands...surprise. 99% of the guns made today will shoot better than their owners can hold...surprise.
There are definitely individual POS guns...I've had my share. But when I got another example they worked as specified. I'm luckier than most because I get to shoot a larger sample of guns than most, and when you shoot more than one sample you have a very different view. And when I have a problem with a gun, I ask for an explanation from the company...how did this happen and what steps are you taking to make sure it doesn't happen again? I have walked into gun companies and asked to see their rework line, then counted the number of guns in for repair. I've sat in customer service departments and discussed customers and problems. I've taken issues I've heard on the Internet to manufacturers and asked whether the problems were true.
It frustrates me, to be sure. If I could find a freakin' toaster that worked half as well as the crummiest gun I've ever bought, I'd be a happy man!
Michael B
Actually, this post would make for a great episode of SG....How To Separate Internet Myth From Gun Fact....it would be a great help for those new to Gun Culture 2.0.....
-
I'm looking at bring some additional regulars on board, a la TOP GEAR,
have a few ideas there ;)
how about a star with a reasonably priced gun have a say Ruger 10/22 or something else set up with a olympic small bore targets and 10 shots, 1 shot on each individual 10 target and see how they would go with a leader board,
Don't worry to much about being "respectful"...you could probably look up the word "as&%ole" in the dictionary and find my picture!
Michael B
think i might be sitting next to you there ;)
also you mentioned about air rifle's and doing something next year, have you thought of including part on olympic shooting with how close and competitive the shooting is. also seeings it might be fresh in peoples minds with the 2012 games in the UK
and an show or 2 with Aussie guns and filmed on location ;)
PS anyone noticed how much popular guns are and noticed how much Apple Inc has grown, .... coincident....
-
Leather Tuscadero is actually a distant cousin of mine. True story.
Now that is cool!