The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on March 20, 2012, 04:58:29 AM
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Gee, what me worry? Coincidence ??? with the "tweaked" Exec. Order released without comment on 3/16?
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/atk-secures-40-caliber-ammunition-contract-with-department-of-homeland-security-us-immigration-and-customs-enforcement-dhs-ice-2012-03-12?reflink=MW_news_stmp
Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE)
--ATK Wins Five-Year, Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity Contract for .40 Caliber Ammunition from DHS, ICE --Additional .40 Caliber Ammunition Contract with 450 Million Round Potential Demonstrates ATK's Leadership in Ammunition Manufacturing
ANOKA, Minn., March 12, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- ATK ATK +0.15% announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.
ATK was the incumbent and won the contract with its HST bullet, which has proven itself in the field. The special hollow point effectively passes through a variety of barriers and holds its jacket in the toughest conditions. HST is engineered for 100-percent weight retention, limits collateral damage, and avoids over-penetration.
"We are proud to extend our track record as the prime supplier of .40 caliber duty ammunition for DHS, ICE," said Ron Johnson, President of ATK's Security and Sporting group. "The HST is a proven design that will continue to serve those who keep our borders safe."
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Please read Ann Barnhardt's thoughts..
http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/barnhardt-why-the-march-16th-2012-white-house-executive-order-is-different/
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Why is the 3/16/2012 Executive Order worthy of grave concern? Simply put, because of the man and the regime who issued it. This is a man, and a regime that has done the following:
(List at link)
Remember, people exactly like Ed Morrissey and his ilk were calling everyone warning of Hitler’s danger to mankind “alarmist”, “conspiracy theorists” and “paranoid” up until 4:40 am on September 1, 1939 when the Luftwaffe attacked Weilun. And before that mess was over, 70 million human beings were dead. The hell that the Obama regime is determined to unleash on the world will make World War II look like a mere bar fight.
Much more at link.....
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FTA: "Not so now. These people are totalitarian tyrants who are no longer even trying to hide their intentions. See the bulleted items above. There comes a point where you have to pull your head out of the sand, synthesize a massive dataset into its obvious, coherent output, and be willing to know the worst, and to provide for it."
She pretty much nailed it for me. When you look at the list of what bho has done, all the little pieces of the puzzle he is putting into place or revising to fit together better, the final picture is becoming clear, and it is not pretty.
bho did not do this alone, this has been coming for a long, long time, since WWII IMHO. bho is simply the one who get to direct the penultimate move, or perhaps even the end-game.
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DHS encompasses not just TSA (unarmed) but the US Border Patrol, Customs enforcement and other legitimate law enforcement branches. All of those federal officers need to practice & qualify with their sidearms, which accounts for 99.9% of the ammo. It is purchased in bulk to keep costs down. Keeping the politics aside, the men and women who are charged with the domestic front of the war on terror, have a legitimate need to maintain proficiency with their sidearms.
Do we "need" the various levels of federal law enforcement? I don't think so, but for the officers and agents who put their behinds on the line on a daily basis, deserve first class training to not only do their jobs, but to be able to go home to their families at the end of the day / night.
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31 million bullets for executions still leaves 419 million for practice.
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31 million bullets for executions still leaves 419 million for practice.
Ding Ding Ding Ding.............
Just another CLICK on the knob of the stove.
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DHS encompasses not just TSA (unarmed) but the US Border Patrol, Customs enforcement and other legitimate law enforcement branches. All of those federal officers need to practice & qualify with their sidearms, which accounts for 99.9% of the ammo. It is purchased in bulk to keep costs down. Keeping the politics aside, the men and women who are charged with the domestic front of the war on terror, have a legitimate need to maintain proficiency with their sidearms.
Do we "need" the various levels of federal law enforcement? I don't think so, but for the officers and agents who put their behinds on the line on a daily basis, deserve first class training to not only do their jobs, but to be able to go home to their families at the end of the day / night.
I have a classmate that is a contract accountant, handles grant monies, for DHS, so like many organizations there are several members that don't carry/qualify/shoot firearms.
So why would an organization of 210,000 (and we have established they all don't carry/qualify/shoot) need 450 million rounds of 40 cal.? That is about 428 rounds per individual per year for all of DHS, lets say that the number that carry/qualify/shoot is just half of that and they each have 850 rounds per year to qualify & practice. A good qualification course is what-60 rounds? Two times through just because leaves them with 730 round to practice. A box a month, just humor me, for practice leaves them with 110 rounds to carry-15 rounds per magazine is 7 magazines plus a few extra (the same number I used to carry guarding nuclear warheads in Germany 22 years ago).
Somehow I don't think that is the plan, call me.... skeptical.
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Do you REALLY beleive the crap that you put through your keyboard?
How many rounds do you think the military gets from Winchester, ATK, and others every year? Those are also multi-year, IDIQ contracts for millions of rounds each. A basic Navy pistol qual course is 100 rounds practice, 50 rounds for score per person every six months. Our department had around 200 people to qualify. Do the math.
Using the same 300 rds/yr+20% for "remedial training" then add 50 rounds per member for duty carry, thats enough for around 220K agents annually. Their current numbers puts them at around 120K-150K agents for the multiple services; CBP=58K, ICE=20K, USCG=42K +8K Reservists, USSS=5K. It doesn't include any for SMG training, additional training allocation for range staff, any additional training requirments, or any stockpile.
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Do you REALLY beleive the crap that you put through your keyboard?
How many rounds do you think the military gets from Winchester, ATK, and others every year? Those are also multi-year, IDIQ contracts for millions of rounds each. A basic Navy pistol qual course is 100 rounds practice, 50 rounds for score per person every six months. Our department had around 200 people to qualify. Do the math.
Using the same 300 rds/yr+20% for "remedial training" then add 50 rounds per member for duty carry, thats enough for around 220K agents annually. Their current numbers puts them at around 120K-150K agents for the multiple services; CBP=58K, ICE=20K, USCG=42K +8K Reservists, USSS=5K. It doesn't include any for SMG training, additional training allocation for range staff, any additional training requirments, or any stockpile.
So how many people in DHS, ICE and Customs qualify with the 40 every year?
Is this a military or law enforcement contract?
You must have the answers to be so condescending...
Just remember, when tyranny comes it WILL be in uniform.
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Do you REALLY beleive the crap that you put through your keyboard?
How many rounds do you think the military gets from Winchester, ATK, and others every year? Those are also multi-year, IDIQ contracts for millions of rounds each. A basic Navy pistol qual course is 100 rounds practice, 50 rounds for score per person every six months. Our department had around 200 people to qualify. Do the math.
Using the same 300 rds/yr+20% for "remedial training" then add 50 rounds per member for duty carry, thats enough for around 220K agents annually. Their current numbers puts them at around 120K-150K agents for the multiple services; CBP=58K, ICE=20K, USCG=42K +8K Reservists, USSS=5K. It doesn't include any for SMG training, additional training allocation for range staff, any additional training requirments, or any stockpile.
Dude, not trying to flame you or anything....but 450 MILLION round potential??
This is .40 cal ammo for use in three major domestic departments.......not military (9mm, .223, .308, .50 BMG...etc).
That's a lot of ammo for THREE departments ............even for four years....I have several friends that work in Federal agencies and they don't practice that much.
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I would be more concerned if it was .223 rounds they were contracting for. I f you read closely the contract calls for 450 mil rounds over a period of time. IMO they are trying to lock up those rounds so if they need them or to keep others from getting them. I don't see that many rounds being just for practice and qualifying. The HST must be the zombie killer of all time. FWIW they can buy all they want.
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The "events" that raise red flags regarding this Admin. the Constitution, the Legislative Process, OUR Rights & Liberties, are happening at an alarming rate.
All this happened in less than 3 years. It's the timing......
We can terminate citizens overseas without due process.
We can go to the U.N. rather than Congress to launch military strikes.
The POTUS has publicly stated he will bypass Congress with no repercussions.
NDAA
This latest Exec. Order.
The Gov't can mandate health care coverage, or one faces a penalty. (SCOTUS steps in next week to decide this one).
Fast & Furious (They let a big fish known gun smuggler go, with a phone number on a $10 Bill to call back and "help")...NOT...
FBI Director Mueller was asked if the Gov't can terminate an American Citizen ON American Soil, "Check with DOJ"...Really?
Groping of 3 year olds,
Groping of 90 year olds with incontinence.
FEMA
EPA
Black Panthers acquitted
Violate your personal Faith, for the "greater good",....
An Admin. that supports anarchists/communists,etc,..with the Occupy Movement (stay tuned, big plans this Spring)
and now almost half a BILLION rds. of just ONE caliber for DHS.
FTA:I’ll leave you with the video of Larry Grathwohl, which can never, ever be posted, spread and publicized too much. Recorded in 1980, when Barack Obama was nothing more than a drug-addled foreign student at Occidental College and not yet even a glimmer in the eye of the Totalitarians who would later adopt him as their public persona, Grathwohl recounts conversations led by Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, the founders and leaders of the Weather Underground, the Marxist-Communist-Totalitarian terrorist group that Grathwohl was tasked to infiltrate, and the eventual intimates, ghostwriter and political handlers of Barack and Michelle Obama.
This is who our POTUS admired, was influenced by, and considered mentors. Just part of a long list.
Watch it.
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4,500,000 to 3 departments = 1,500,000 each department
4 year allotment = 375,000 per year
say 50,000 armed officers (just a guess...have no idea how accurate..but saw 100,000 stated) = 7.5 rounds each
10,000 armed officers = 35.7 rounds each
1,000 armed officers = 375 rounds each.
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4,500,000 to 3 departments = 1,500,000 each department
4 year allotment = 375,000 per year
say 50,000 armed officers (just a guess...have no idea how accurate..but saw 100,000 stated) = 7.5 rounds each
10,000 armed officers = 35.7 rounds each
1,000 armed officers = 375 rounds each.
Left out a couple of 0's didn't you? :D
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Oppps.....I did....and it wasn't a typo...I remember 4.5 million....sucks to get old =( Redo follows
450,000,000 to 3 departments = 150,000,000 to each department
4 year allotment = 37,500,000 per year
50,000 armed officers = 750 each
10,000 armed officers = 3,750 each
1,000 armed officers = 37,500 each
So, might be way to much or way to little depending upon the number of armed officers.
37,500 is plenty for a war. 3,750 will give some well trained officers, and 750 will get shooters who know which end the bullet comes out of.
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For a non-military issued rd. That they are JHP's (nice one's at that),....NOT FMJ target ammo,.....just kinda makes me say.
Methinks somethings afoot.....
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/alfred_e_newman.jpg)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/31105-funny_sign_no_target_practice.jpg)
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Of course it did say "potentially" 450 million........which may mean "as much as we need, when we need it over the four years without going over".....but that is still a lot of rounds per man.......
Like Solus said.....they should be some well-trained agents..........
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Do we have an accurate count of the armed agents who would be supplied by this order?
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Do we have an accurate count of the armed agents who would be supplied by this order?
Doubt that....wouldn't want the public to know that kind of info, now would we?
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This contract is over years and is a Federal Contract for DHS. Seen an uproar on other forums in reference to this. I think it is a waste of energy. The .40 Smith and Wesson round
The events that took place with Hitler would never take place in the United States. It would be quashed as soon as it began. The communication we have today would spread at the touch of a key stroke.
I get rather sick of seeing our Federal LEO's bashed by those fearing the black helicopters that will never come. They are very well trained but they are also human beings, along with being American citizens. They are plenty aware that if they were given an order to come and take our guns that it would be suicide.
Now the guys who wear the powder blue helmets, that is another story and something that should be monitored.
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BATFE
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One item of note Ping, NO ONE is quashing any usurpation done by this Admin. No one is standing up and saying:
There are those that are Churchill's or Chamberlains.
We have been, and are continuing to be played. All at our expense as the taxpaying sheeple.... The foot soldier, whether an ICE agent, or family man from the BATFE, or DHS agent that just wants to go to work and go home to his/her family.
It's higher up's that are the puppet master's in this game.....
Most of the citizenry won't "get it"....and go with the flow,....even to their own demise as a Country......However,....there are those that have that "little" voice that says,....Bulls**t....I will not go too quietly into that good night.
If the SHTF,...pray you know the latter....
It's a big if,......but I'll take a Boy Scout mindset, over a citizen waiting for what the gov't can do for me....
+1 on the Blue Helmets....
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This contract is over years and is a Federal Contract for DHS. Seen an uproar on other forums in reference to this. I think it is a waste of energy. The .40 Smith and Wesson round
The events that took place with Hitler would never take place in the United States. It would be quashed as soon as it began. The communication we have today would spread at the touch of a key stroke.
I get rather sick of seeing our Federal LEO's bashed by those fearing the black helicopters that will never come. They are very well trained but they are also human beings, along with being American citizens. They are plenty aware that if they were given an order to come and take our guns that it would be suicide.
Now the guys who wear the powder blue helmets, that is another story and something that should be monitored.
If you actually believe that ridiculous statement , then you obviously haven't been paying attention.
Just for starters the "GCA 68" was based on the Nazi gun laws, and that was 40 years ago.
You need to read some history Ping.
Hitler was ELECTED by the German people, and every thing he did, including the concentration camps, was perfectly legal under German law.
Which puts him in a better category than Obama.
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To correct what you guys are all missing is that is 450 Million rounds TOTAL over five years not 450 Million every year. That's 90 Mil per year MAX
DHS directly supplies the FOUR departments (with around 90-120K total that would require some level of firearms training, they also supply DHS students at the four Federal training academies, which would be around 1K rounds per student and a few thousand students a year.
Magoo-It's a LEO contract. As far as numbers, look again at what I posted earlier. That's the current strength as listed in a couple different websites. ALL the USSS and USCG/USCGR personnel listed would require firearms training (around 58K), ICE and CBP are still a higher percentage of armed personnel vice admin types.
The Security Depart at Lemoore while I was there expended close to 90,000 rounds of 9mm per year to maintain quals plus 10,000 for duty carry. The duty ammo gets rotated after six months and gets used by the Range Staff for currency after two years, in addition to unexpended training allocation since you CANNOT have extra at the end of the year (Lots of "Hey we have four cases of 9, two cases of 223, and six cases of 12 to get rid of today") The Airlift squadron had an allocation of 40K annually for quals for all air crew and most support personnel.
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Like it was said before that is 90 million rounds of one caliber, 40 S&W.
So that many Federal Law enforcement agencies, USCG is military BTW, doesn't alarm you? I can see 20,000 Boarder Patrol agents needing training (too few by half if you ask me), 42,000 in the Coast Guard (+30,000 reservist), 4,500 Secret Service Agents, and 20,000 ICE agents needing to train and qualify. That is a total of 116,500 agents.
90,000,000 rounds a year at $.50 a round (quality ammo in bulk)=$45,000,000? Its our money and its funny the one place other than wealth transfer they are willing to spend it is on ammunition for Federal Law Enforcement.
However DHS also has under its umbrella: TSA (few are LEO) and FEMA (uh... ya).
Just for some perspective according to Ammunition quarterly (http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/am/ammunition/Corporate_Center/Ammunition_Quarterly/Vol10No3.pdf) The Marine Corps (127,000 active duty,30,000 Reserve and 5,000 Fleet Reserve) spent $146,000,000 in 2002; $417,000,000 in 2003 ;$237,000,000 in 2004; $245,000,000 in 2005. Which includes 12-12.5 million rounds of 7.62 @ a cost of $6 to 9,000,000 per year. How about 5.56, the entire Marine Corps shoots 70 million in training annually, yes ANNUALLY. So if you combine both 7.62 AND 5.56 the Marines shoot less than the DHS departments... ???
It would appear that DHS is equipping its own military.
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The Coast Gaurd is NOT part of the military except as ordered by Congress, and only in a limited capacity. It is, and always has been, primarily a law enforcement agency.
Another thing to remember is that the numbers you're focused on are maximums not what actually is being ordered.
One of the contracts I support is an IDIQ for 300 units a year but we're only getting like 80 total over the legnth of the contract, but the supplier has to be CAPABLE of supplying all 300 in a year.
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Another thing to remember is that the numbers you're focused on are maximums not what actually is being ordered.
One of the contracts I support is an IDIQ for 300 units a year but we're only getting like 80 total over the legnth of the contract, but the supplier has to be CAPABLE of supplying all 300 in a year.
Government constraint? HA! Surely you jest!?
Still that is more 40 cal that the USMC uses 7.62 and 5.56 in a year.
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I didn't even get much past the header on the MARCORSYSCOM report you referenced. That report is SEVEN years old so you're comparison is apples to oranges. Even then it references the Marines firing over 70M 5.56 a year.
Add to the numbers for DHS is the fact that the Coasties only adopted the Sig P229 in 40 starting in 06 in a limited number and the initial issue across the CG took a year. Then you have to cycle through and dispose of the older (9mm) and replace it with the new round. You also have to do more training with it up front "transition training." http://www.military.com/features/0%2C15240%2C96246%2C00.html
The same thing will happen if the military goes back to the 45ACP or to 40SW. The new pistol will be allocated but except for certain armory and training staff they will remain in storage until the ammunition supply can be sustained and the ammo it's replacing hits a certain level. Then units will begin transition training which uses more than double the "normal" allocation for the couple years. Then the allocations will drop to more stable numbers.
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70 million rounds of 5.56 and 12.5 million rounds of 7.62 during wartime for the 150,000 Marines compared to 116,500 DHS agents using 90 million rounds is comparing apples to oranges?
Whatever....
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This contract is over years and is a Federal Contract for DHS. Seen an uproar on other forums in reference to this. I think it is a waste of energy. The .40 Smith and Wesson round
The events that took place with Hitler would never take place in the United States. It would be quashed as soon as it began. The communication we have today would spread at the touch of a key stroke.
I get rather sick of seeing our Federal LEO's bashed by those fearing the black helicopters that will never come. They are very well trained but they are also human beings, along with being American citizens. They are plenty aware that if they were given an order to come and take our guns that it would be suicide.
Now the guys who wear the powder blue helmets, that is another story and something that should be monitored.
Just remember this is the same gubmint administration that doesn't want YOU to own firearms and ammo (remember, if you stockpile ammo you are an extremist)....but will gladly shell out millions to buy it for ENFORCEMENT agencies.
Kinda seems like a double standard in a sense.
I'm not a 'conspiracy' guy by a long shot......and 99% of the time I joke about the 'black helicopters' rather than take them seriously....... but, I'll never say "never" if only because it's always possible...even if not probable....and you'd be surprised at who lands on which side.
And the "quashing by keystroke"........spreading the 'word' via keyboard is one thing......physically going out and taking up arms in defense of your rights, against the gubmint......well, that's another.
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I'll try again...from latest figures posted here.....
450,000,000 rounds for 5 years = 90,000,000 per year.
116,500 DHS agents = 773 rounds per agent per year.
Really, I don't think that makes enough for even poor training.
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One other thing to consider is that the USMC totals were for TRAINING only, not carry or battle expenditure, and the 80M and 12.5M need to be ADDED since not all Marines carry an M16 variant.
The DHS is TOTAL rounds including carry ammo, We'll say 3 mags for 100K agents is still 4.2M rounds just to carry day to day, so 90 quickly becomes closer to 85 (about the same number as the Marines for PRIMARY weapons training) That duty ammo cannot stay in inventory after two years and cannot be added to the training allocation so it's replaced.
It all boils down to just being jealous that they actually have ACCESS to 90million rounds of 40 and are required by law to expend it.
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One other thing to consider is that the USMC totals were for TRAINING only, not carry or battle expenditure, and the 80M and 12.5M need to be ADDED since not all Marines carry an M16 variant.
The DHS is TOTAL rounds including carry ammo, We'll say 3 mags for 100K agents is still 4.2M rounds just to carry day to day, so 90 quickly becomes closer to 85 (about the same number as the Marines for PRIMARY weapons training) That duty ammo cannot stay in inventory after two years and cannot be added to the training allocation so it's replaced.
It all boils down to just being jealous that they actually have ACCESS to 90million rounds of 40 and are required by law to expend it.
+10 ;D
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It all boils down to just being jealous that they actually have DENIED ACCESS to 90million rounds of 40 and are required by law to expend it.
FIFY
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You aren't denied access to it, just get a contract with ATK and order it yourself. I'm sure they'd LOVE to sell more.
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You aren't denied access to it, just get a contract with ATK and order it yourself. I'm sure they'd LOVE to sell more.
I'm sure the market won't be affected at all by the raw materials ATK will be using for this contract. Artificially raising the prices is a kin to denial of goods, kind of like poll taxes. You don't have to worry though you'll get yours right?
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I'm tired of this thread.
The same people post the same tin fiol BS every time the gov buys ammo, whether it's DHS, DOD, or who ever .
Oh my God, it's a conspiracy !
I'll tell you something that will just scare the pants off of you, they've been doing it periodically for decades.
It must be a plot against the people.
It can't possibly be because they have 2 wars going and 2 more in the works.
Then of course there is the ammo DHS gives to PD's and and SWAT teams like the several thousand rounds each recently received by both city of Laconia, and Belknap county.
What do you know ? about 3/4 of the cops in the country use .40.
Sheesh.
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Remember here in the archives the post about the IRS buying Remington 870's? Surely just a normal progression of events....
Like this one.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/irs-forming-swat-team-to-nab-tax-evaders/
snip
Reuters is also reporting that, because of a “surge” in tax refund fraud and identity theft, the IRS may soon be sharing personal tax return information with the police.
Though Congress made it a crime for IRS workers to share this information in 1976, a pilot program could soon begin in Tampa, FL where victims of identity theft and tax return fraud could give permission to the IRS to share their personal information.
Critics of the program note that it is a “slippery slope,” and while the program may begin with victims giving permission to the IRS, it is only a matter of time before the information is shared without consent, or before the information goes public. They also say that, perhaps if the tax code was simplified, the IRS would not need to go to such lengths to collect their dues.
Nothing to see here,....all is well...
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It's no "slippery slope".
Tax collectors have been killing people since Prohibition, then of course there's ATF who exist only to collect $200 tax stamps.
Even if DHS is buying the ammo so they can open concentration camps and start executing every one who doesn't love BO.
So what ?
Do you actually think the sheeple would pull themselves away from "Dancing with the stars" long enough to do anything about it ?
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I have a ton of respect for you fellas on here.
Yes, Obama is an absolute waste as a president and his anti 2A stance. Along with his cronies in his administration.
There have been many governmental screw ups. Hopefully they will soon cease after the election this year.
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I have a ton of respect for you fellas on here.
Yes, Obama is an absolute waste as a president and his anti 2A stance. Along with his cronies in his administration.
There have been many governmental screw ups. Hopefully they will soon cease after the election this year.
If that POS wins by 1 single vote you can expect the media to be flooded with stories about his "mandate from the people".
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Uhh, DHS/ICE will also be contracting for up to 175 million rounds of .223 over five years:
"STATEMENT OF WORK FOR
.223 REMINGTON CALIBER (STANDARD DUTY) (62 – 64 GRAIN) AMMUNITION
Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)
1.0 SCOPE
The scope of this contract is to provide up to 33 million rounds of .223 Remington caliber (Standard Duty) ammunition in the base year and an estimated 33 million rounds in each of the four option years (and up to 2 million rounds of .223 Remington caliber (Enhanced Performance) ammunition in the base year and an estimated 2 million rounds in each of the four option years,) delivered to numerous Department of Homeland Security (DHS, or Department) component locations nationwide including those in the continental U.S., Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, the Northern Marianna Islands, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands."
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=140e263e1c4b2654e61adf022688eb5d&tab=documents&tabmode=list (https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=140e263e1c4b2654e61adf022688eb5d&tab=documents&tabmode=list)
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!
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up to 450 million rounds of .40S&W
175 million rounds of .223/5.56
There is one question I have not seen discussed here. Other than shooting for target practice and training, at whom do they plan to fire this ammunition? Last time I checked, the numbers of "terrorists" engaged by DHS and its ilk over the past decade has been in the dozens, maybe low 100s. So who gets to be the target? ???
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Like I mentioned before, they have to rotate the duty ammo they carry on a daily basis and dispose of it so there isn't usually that much of a "stockpile." Our armory had enough for the entire dept to have three full mags (pistol) plus about half that as reserve. The ammo that was rotated out for disposal was either shot by the RSOs during instructor training, shot by neighboring commands as "fam fire", or used to get marginal shooters a little more practice than the allocated rounds. Our allotted shoots were 150 rounds but we usually let everybody shoot an extra 100 before we officiallt started to shoot to keep our expenditures balanced. That extra was the duty ammo that was about to be expired.
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up to 450 million rounds of .40S&W
175 million rounds of .223/5.56
There is one question I have not seen discussed here. Other than shooting for target practice and training, at whom do they plan to fire this ammunition? Last time I checked, the numbers of "terrorists" engaged by DHS and its ilk over the past decade has been in the dozens, maybe low 100s. So who gets to be the target? ???
Not gonna say I like the DHS organization at all, but if they are tasked with counter-terrorism in the USA, I'd rather they plan for the threat they might face in the next decade than what they have in the past decade. Much better they plan for increased terrorist activity than they buy a few thousands round to be prepared to face another few hundred like they did in the past decade.
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Maybe they plan on shooting back at the "occupy" crowd who called for killing cops last weekend.
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Maybe they plan on shooting back at the "occupy" crowd who called for killing cops last weekend.
That would be novel.
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That would be novel.
Novel? You have more chance of getting hit by lightning after walking out of a building where you were just the sole winner of a $300 million lottery than for DHS to actually be effective against terrorists..
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Novel? You have more chance of getting hit by lightning after walking out of a building where you were just the sole winner of a $300 million lottery than for DHS to actually be effective against terrorists..
Funny you should post that.
A recent study found that you have a higher chance of being struck by lightning on the way to pick up your lottery winnings than you do of winning in the first place.
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Funny you should post that.
A recent study found that you have a higher chance of being struck by lightning on the way to pick up your lottery winnings than you do of winning in the first place.
And what's the probability of both happening there, Sheldon? ;)
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If that POS wins by 1 single vote you can expect the media to be flooded with stories about his "mandate from the people".
If Obama wins, I think our Country will be totally screwed.
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12 - 21 - 2012 The end of the world can't come soon enough.
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12 - 21 - 2012 The end of the world can't come soon enough.
Where will you be Tom?
I'm bringing the hotdogs buddy!
;D
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Where will you be Tom?
I'm bringing the hotdogs buddy!
;D
Pig Heaven ;D
I grew up with 18th century technology, I'll thrive while others die. ;D