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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on April 25, 2012, 08:47:20 PM

Title: American Guns
Post by: MikeBjerum on April 25, 2012, 08:47:20 PM
I was on the phones today.  This means that I'm strapped to the desk with two phones, a computer, a notebook, and four catalogs going.  It also means periods of pulling my hair, or what's left of it, out, and periods of pure boredom.  This also means that I rotate between the radio on behind me or the TV on in front of me.  I got the chance to have Blackhawk Down going in front of me, not that I was able to watch much of it, and then I had American Guns on.

I am soooooooo glad I got the chance to watch American Guns.  I normally don't see it, because it is on during Shooting Gallery.  The best thing about watching it was that I learned that you don't need to be a gunsmith to build very expensive firearms.  I have the basic farmer skills and tools needed to cobble together a high priced piece.  I also was corrected on terminology:  I always thought that headspace dealt with where the bullet was in relation to the breech end of the barrel when the cartridge is chambered.  However, Rich made it clear that it is all about how tight the action closes to keep gasses from blowing out of the ejection port when the gun is fired.

I know that the average observer does not know the difference and will never be affected by it.  But, for those of us that enjoy our guns a little too excess it is like fingernails on a blackboard (to you young folk that think that may be racist, a blackboard is a rough surface mounted on a classroom wall, that is black in color, and you rub fossilized sea creatures across it for the class to see - kinda like a whiteboard, only less colorful, and less expensive  ;) ).
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: Timothy on April 25, 2012, 08:53:04 PM
Where's the sarcasm emoticon we ordered anyway?

 ;D
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: Mericet on April 25, 2012, 10:12:37 PM
On another forum (yes I know but that one is vehicle related) the accepted form is to post sarcasm posts in green.

BTW, under which category will a gunsmith file "Red Jacket" (or whatever it is called)?
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: JLawson on April 25, 2012, 11:21:02 PM
I've stopped watching both of those shows.  Just couldn't take the manufactured drama, cobbled-together crap, and helicopter-delivered bag-o-cash deals.  I still enjoy Top Shot and the spin-off called Top Guns was fun to watch.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: tombogan03884 on April 25, 2012, 11:59:02 PM
I used to like "Tales of the gun" on the History channel but they only had a few episodes they kept showing over and over.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: philw on April 26, 2012, 07:07:41 AM
I actually like it,  looks like a ok show,


yes the BS that you get with some shows trying to add a bit of suspense  ( bit like swamp people )

however you have to understand a few things I feel, 
we are all enthusiasts and have high expectations and expect attention to detail

shows like American Guns and others like it are made for the Masses  they are on more main stream networks  and a lot of people that would watch them may not be that in to guns or have only just got in to them    however it is a way to get more supporters of firearms when they see people having fun and they are not the big bad black things that the lame stream media makes them out to be all the time.

that is a massive plus for us all   the more,  and when you have the DRTV group with the shows they have setting the standard in the firearms and self defence shows  and other networks wanting there own  giving us more shows to watch ( well at least you all in the US )  how can that be a bad thing...



PS   really really wish I could get Shooting Gallery,  and Gun Stories ( well all the DRTV shows though iTunes Store ( the Aust one )
PLESSE PLEASE   or can I just buy a external HD with them all on it and ship it over to me ;) hehe


BTW, under which category will a gunsmith file "Red Jacket" (or whatever it is called)?

Sons of Guns.. is the show you are talking about.

Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: santahog on April 26, 2012, 12:24:57 PM
I like "Sons of Guns" well enough. The wife hates it..
"American Guns", while I'm glad people are watching it, I'm not much on it. I'll watch it though.
I can't take much of the girl with the little dog under her arm, and what seems like the "Gun Guy to the rich and famous" mindset going on with the dad. Stacks of cash and whatnot don't impress me, and it seems like it's supposed to on that show. Too much like the guy who walks around with 50K in his pocket just to seem serious or important..
Just me though.. More power to them.
I was looking at it last night and it occured to me that I could never afford to buy a gun there..
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: Timothy on April 26, 2012, 12:34:22 PM
I just question the Discovery channels motives.  After all, aren't they the same network that produces "Whale Wars"?

I don't get cable anymore but I've seen one or two issues of "American Guns/Silicone"...I'll pass in the future.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: MikeBjerum on April 26, 2012, 12:52:38 PM
I just question the Discovery channels motives.  After all, aren't they the same network that produces "Whale Wars"?

I don't get cable anymore but I've seen one or two issues of "American Guns/Silicone"...I'll pass in the future.

I think that History, Discovery, Science, Military, National Geographic, Animal Planet, etc. are all tied together.  They love the reality shows, because they are the cheapest to produce.  They hype the drama, because we have become a nation that would rather see others hurting than celebrate success (great to see someone stumble below us).  I believe they produce a broad range of shows and have something for everybody, or more accurately, the broadest range possible to collect advertising revenue from.

I just get irritated when they are so far off base, and you know others are paying attention.  I was hunting last year with a clown that was a no it all.  He is a prairie dog shooter, and that is what he considers hunting - guess how putting him in a tree stand for eight hours a day for six days went.  He sat there telling all of us that if you shoot a Barett in .50 BMG you don't need to worry about wind or compensate for bullet drop up to a half mile.  "They are so big, heavy and fast they just rip straight out there, and nothing moves them."  These are the naive people that swallow everything said on these shows, including Ice Road Truckers 9,000 ton tanker that rolled one night.  There are people that will swallow that you can put eighteen million pounds on five axles with eighteen wheels  :o
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: tombogan03884 on April 26, 2012, 02:18:40 PM
I think that History, Discovery, Science, Military, National Geographic, Animal Planet, etc. are all tied together.  They love the reality shows, because they are the cheapest to produce.  They hype the drama, because we have become a nation that would rather see others hurting than celebrate success (great to see someone stumble below us).  I believe they produce a broad range of shows and have something for everybody, or more accurately, the broadest range possible to collect advertising revenue from.

I just get irritated when they are so far off base, and you know others are paying attention.  I was hunting last year with a clown that was a no it all.  He is a prairie dog shooter, and that is what he considers hunting - guess how putting him in a tree stand for eight hours a day for six days went.  He sat there telling all of us that if you shoot a Barett in .50 BMG you don't need to worry about wind or compensate for bullet drop up to a half mile.  "They are so big, heavy and fast they just rip straight out there, and nothing moves them."  These are the naive people that swallow everything said on these shows, including Ice Road Truckers 9,000 ton tanker that rolled one night.  There are people that will swallow that you can put eighteen million pounds on five axles with eighteen wheels  :o

The fact they could confuse Gallons and tons with out anyone catching it tells you alot about the knowledge base of the production staff.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: Mericet on April 26, 2012, 09:36:25 PM

Sons of Guns.. is the show you are talking about.



Yes, that's it, comedy for gunsmiths!
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: philw on June 16, 2012, 05:17:41 AM
got a ? about the show

how realistic are the prices

just watched episode 6 from season 2..    with the 13yo   18K for an 1873 custom job,      and everything else seems to be 10K

not knocking the show  just are these prices realistic??


ps  DAM the kid can shoot..   MB  he will give you a run for your $$$ :P
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: BAC on June 16, 2012, 08:01:47 AM
They have a CNC machine to pay for.   ;)
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: Rastus on June 16, 2012, 08:15:50 AM
They have a CNC machine to pay for.   ;)

Good point. 

The same reason doctors charge what they charge when their practice decides to buy an MRI some slick salesman sold them.  An engineer friend had to explain total cost and point forward maintenance costs and debt costs to his doctor son once.  Saved the good doctor a bunch of money.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: PegLeg45 on June 16, 2012, 07:09:47 PM
The show shows what a young set of jacked-up boobs can do for sales. Like the episode where the animal rescue guy paid something like $1500 for a S&S M&P in .45.......the show tallied it as $500 for the gun, $800 for the zebra paint job (WTH?), and $200 for the trigger job.

The paint was $300 more than the gun.......Better be some good paint.   ::)  ::)  ::)
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: MikeBjerum on June 17, 2012, 10:00:09 AM
The show shows what a young set of jacked-up boobs can do for sales. Like the episode where the animal rescue guy paid something like $1500 for a S&S M&P in .45.......the show tallied it as $500 for the gun, $800 for the zebra paint job (WTH?), and $200 for the trigger job.

The paint was $300 more than the gun.......Better be some good paint.   ::)  ::)  ::)

You assume all the paint he paid for was visible on the gun.  I refer you back to your first sentence  ;)  I thought he had engaged his brain, but she was clearly bargaining with the little head  :o
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: BBJohnnyT on June 17, 2012, 06:02:36 PM
While it's great to critique the details in these shows, I'm all for more and more of these gun shows on TV.  From what I've seen, they generally present firearms as normal American businesses, in spite of specific faults, errors or TV drama.  It could be a family owned muffler shop, but in these cases, their business is guns.  To me, that gives them an image of normalcy.  Most anti-gun Americans are that way out of ignorance and lack of exposure.  They have this view that firearm transactions are done in dark alleyways on the seedy side of town, not in a shop where your family helps out.  More gun based reality shows?  Bring them on, and I hope they get ratings to stay on!
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 17, 2012, 06:10:17 PM
It's "Reality TV", there is nothing even vaguely normal about it.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: BBJohnnyT on June 17, 2012, 06:24:04 PM
It's "Reality TV", there is nothing even vaguely normal about it.
To us, yes.  But my point is to "mainstream" America, it exposes them to the gun culture, portraying firearms as a "normal" business and recreational activity.  Anything that helps return firearms to "normal" American culture and away from some bug-a-boo sub-culture, I'm all for that.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 17, 2012, 06:40:13 PM
To us, yes.  But my point is to "mainstream" America, it exposes them to the gun culture, portraying firearms as a "normal" business and recreational activity.  Anything that helps return firearms to "normal" American culture and away from some bug-a-boo sub-culture, I'm all for that.

I'll agree with your point, but I really wish more of them were written by gun people and fewer by Hollyweird ass hats.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: BBJohnnyT on June 17, 2012, 08:13:54 PM
I'll agree with your point, but I really wish more of them were written by gun people and fewer by Hollyweird ass hats.
Amen.  I'll just bet that the producers are secretly wishing someone would shoot their eye out, just for the drama and ratings.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 17, 2012, 10:19:32 PM
I'd like to see one where a bunch of REAL "gun guys" from different disciplines sat around BSing about gun stuff with demonstrations.
One episode could be a Long range shooter building a rifle, zeroing it and then making 1000+ yard shots.
Another one could have a collector showing the technical  progression of military rifles and how they advance the civilian market and vice versa.
Others could be "myth busting" famous shots with some history of the original shot. Hathcock/Zietsev countersniper through the scope, Oswald on Kennedy, Billy Dixon at Adobe Walls.
Stuff that will fascinate real shooters and show the rest that there is a lot more than just hunting and Self defense.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: BAC on June 17, 2012, 10:26:51 PM
I'd like to see one where a bunch of REAL "gun guys" from different disciplines sat around BSing about gun stuff with demonstrations.
One episode could be a Long range shooter building a rifle, zeroing it and then making 1000+ yard shots.
Another one could have a collector showing the technical  progression of military rifles and how they advance the civilian market and vice versa.
Others could be "myth busting" famous shots with some history of the original shot. Hathcock/Zietsev countersniper through the scope, Oswald on Kennedy, Billy Dixon at Adobe Walls.
Stuff that will fascinate real shooters and show the rest that there is a lot more than just hunting and Self defense.

That would be fun to watch.  MB's schedule is usually pretty free.  Maybe he can whip something up in his free time.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 17, 2012, 10:56:34 PM
That would be fun to watch.  MB's schedule is usually pretty free.  Maybe he can whip something up in his free time.

There you go, give that "lay about" something to fill all that free time.  ;D
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: philw on June 17, 2012, 11:09:20 PM
While it's great to critique the details in these shows, I'm all for more and more of these gun shows on TV.  From what I've seen, they generally present firearms as normal American businesses, in spite of specific faults, errors or TV drama. 

trust me I am far from doing that
and I agree it is good to see shows like that on the box  under main stream channels   even if they have all the wanky extras that the " sheeple" seem to love

however the true gun fan wants to see more details and more techy stuff

however that dose not rate well with the sheeple  and that is what counts  it is all about ratings

shows that are on the outdoor channel are targeted to there audience  and I am guessing shows like Amercan guns,  Sons of Guns and Top Shot are a great way to get more people looking at ok what else it out there and then they will then see what is out there like DRTV's shows and other more "Gun Geek" shows out there


I was more checking is he talking real prices   I know CNC's are not cheep to get and maintain   and I know they are there to make $$$ and good luck to him... 

PS when will we see MB walk in to " get some work done "  :P
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: MikeBjerum on June 18, 2012, 11:41:01 AM
I hate to be the party pooper here, but we go round and round on this from time to time.  I have also PM'd MB on this one.  The answer is the same:  Ratings are what matters, and the ratings numbers go along the lines of what we are currently seeing.  We ARE a fringe group that advertisers and those that set up the schedules do not see as being large enough to market to.  The product MB puts out is the best balance between what we want, what he wants, and what puts food on his table.

As long as the Dancing With The Stars crowd is willing to watch Sons of Guns and American Guns we should be thankful to have guns in the mix to watch.  When we chase that crowd away we will also lose some of these shows.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: philw on June 18, 2012, 06:53:40 PM
that's it M58  the reason why i said shows that rate will with the shepple are what they go and make lots of
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 18, 2012, 06:58:06 PM
that's it M58  the reason why i said shows that rate will with the shepple are what they go and make lots of

I think this is putting the cart before the horse to a certain extent.
While I will grant that it is probably to late to change I think the problem began with moronic programing aiding in the dumbing of the public.
They've been calling it "the idiot box" and "the boob tube" as long as I've been alive.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: Magoo541 on June 18, 2012, 09:34:12 PM
Ratings are what matters, and the ratings numbers go along the lines of what we are currently seeing.  We ARE a fringe group that advertisers and those that set up the schedules do not see as being large enough to market to.  The product MB puts out is the best balance between what we want, what he wants, and what puts food on his table.

$6 Billion dollars in revenue by over 300 companies is hardly a fringe group.  I think there is a boom coming in shooting sports, more like a tidal wave and we can see some evidence of it.  MB calls it Gun Culture 2.0, kids that grew up with Call of Duty showing up at gun shows are making there way to competitions.  Beyond the competition side the lessons learned from Katrina are still ringing in many peoples' ears and once the economy picks back up I think you'll see more disposable income spent on firearms, ammo and accessories if the marketing people do their jobs well. 
But I see your point, MB does market to a niche group with his shows.  What is needed, not by MB-he needs to keep doing what he's doing, is a show in which guns are a costar/sidekick to a group of average people that overcome seemingly insurmountable odds to win the day (I'm thinking Caucasian (as in hillbillys of the Caucasus mountains) fighting for their freedom with AKs in one show followed by Pacific Islanders fighting off drug cartel minions with Ruger Mini-14s (A Team throwback), to Chinese peasants shaking off the shackles of communism with SKS) with the history of the specific weapons told along the way as well as the message of self-reliance.  Its obvious there is a dearth of imagination in Hollywood, just look at all the movies based on comic books, old stories or remakes (Footloose?? WTF!).  TV programming has fell for the easy, cheap entertainment-reality TV partly because they lack imagination.  Where are the modern day television/movie equivalents of Shakespeares, Dante, Charles Dickens, Mark Twain-insert great authors here-? 
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: kmitch200 on June 18, 2012, 11:18:18 PM
TV programming has fell for the easy, cheap entertainment-reality TV partly because they lack imagination.  Where are the modern day television/movie equivalents of Shakespeares, Dante, Charles Dickens, Mark Twain-insert great authors here-?

TV has always been about selling advertising. The quality can be $hit, (Jersey Shore?), as long as people tune in for their fix and see some ads.
The whole idea behind American Idol isn't to identify a great singer. It's those 30-60 sec spots that TV lives on. 

Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: Ping on June 19, 2012, 09:11:31 AM
Not a fan of Sons of Guns. Same story over and over again. We built it. Oh crap, it does not work, oh, fixed it. Yaaawn. Boring.

American Guns, well, at least the view is better but the prices and attitudes make it a casual watch.

Love the Jersey Shor![/color] Not!!! Those kids need their asses beat down.

There are so many choices for television out there. If I am not watching the Outdoor Channel or recording all our favorite shows on the DVR, I am on the History, Military and Antenna Channel.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: BAC on June 19, 2012, 11:25:22 AM
TV has always been about selling advertising. The quality can be $hit, (Jersey Shore?), as long as people tune in for their fix and see some ads.
The whole idea behind American Idol isn't to identify a great singer. It's those 30-60 sec spots that TV lives on. 



That goes back to the days of radio.  There's a reason Jack Benny's show was called "The JELLO Program starring Jack Benny" when they were sponsoring the show.  At one time they were sponsored by Lucky Strike.  My how times have changed.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: lhprop1 on June 19, 2012, 11:41:34 AM
Not a fan of Sons of Guns. Same story over and over again. We built it. Oh crap, it does not work, oh, fixed it. Yaaawn. Boring.


You forgot "We have two hours to get it done before we deliver it to the client"
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: jaybet on June 19, 2012, 12:46:05 PM
You forgot "We have two hours to get it done before we deliver it to the client"
You forgot, "This isn't going to go well for us".
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: philw on June 20, 2012, 06:08:56 AM
You forgot, "This isn't going to go well for us".


hahahaha
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: PegLeg45 on June 20, 2012, 02:21:21 PM
Just for those interested, tonight's episode is supposed to have a segment dealing with the American Zoot Shooters Association (one of Bane's favorite things).
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: BAC on June 20, 2012, 03:22:55 PM
It just hit me - they're in Colorado, MB's in Colorado, when's the guest appearance?
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: MikeBjerum on June 20, 2012, 08:38:07 PM
It just hit me - they're in Colorado, MB's in Colorado, when's the guest appearance?

Reality tv can't handle the reality of Mr. Bane  ;D
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: jaybet on June 20, 2012, 08:40:30 PM
Maybe they can jump in their private copter and fly to the secret hidden bunker. What a bunch of crap.
Of course, I guess if they keep whoring the daughter out for ratings I'll have to watch it sometimes.
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: BAC on June 20, 2012, 09:00:57 PM
Maybe they can jump in their private copter and fly to the secret hidden bunker. What a bunch of crap.
Of course, I guess if they keep whoring the daughter out for ratings I'll have to watch it sometimes.

Ah, but she's legal now.   ;)
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: robheath on June 20, 2012, 09:56:54 PM
Ah, but she's legal now.   ;)

YUM YUM :P
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: sledgemeister on June 21, 2012, 02:25:01 AM
Ah, but she's legal now.   ;)


Not sure if they are real but I would volounteer to be a dirty old man and find out!

(http://img2.bdbphotos.com/images/orig/e/q/eq0utcbkofgrctkq.jpg)
Title: Re: American Guns
Post by: sledgemeister on June 21, 2012, 02:35:37 AM
Maybe they can jump in their private copter and fly to the secret hidden bunker. What a bunch of crap.
Of course, I guess if they keep whoring the daughter out for ratings I'll have to watch it sometimes.

FYI the daughter and the son arent his.
Their old man is called Charles Grewcock (seriously I cant make a name up like that) and lives in Beacon Falls

a pic of the family pre American Guns - with out the wife
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/306639_10150760361184507_517125731_n.jpg)

Damn that nosey internet!