The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: tombogan03884 on June 19, 2012, 11:17:16 AM
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http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-immigration-shift-hit-voters-says-poll-144334585.html
President Barack Obama's high-profile shift on immigration last week — announcing plans to grant temporary legal status to as many as 800,000 undocumented people brought to American soil as children — has the overwhelming support of likely voters in a new Bloomberg poll released Tuesday.
Sixty-four percent of them — and 66% of independents, the frequently up-for-grabs voters thought to decide elections — support the president's decision. The White House has forcefully (and rather implausibly) denied that Obama sought political gain from his announcement. But as recently as March 2011, he had said publicly that he lacked the power to halt such deportations.
The Bloomberg survey found that just 30 percent of likely voters disagreed with the president's plan. Fifty-six percent of likely Republican voters opposed it, while 86% of Democrats supported it. Just 26% of independents sided with the Republican majority in the poll.
More at link if your blood pressure hasn't peaked
A related story
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/marco-rubio-says-come-u-illegally-had-111859436.html
Marco Rubio says he would come to the US illegally if he had to
Hypothetically, if Sen. Marco Rubio were not an American citizen and could not provide food for his family, he says he would cross the border illegally to come to the United States.
While discussing immigration policy in his new memoir, "An American Son," Rubio (R-Fla.) called for "common decency" in dealing with undocumented immigrants and said that if put in a similar position as those who are fleeing destitution, he would break the law, too.
Again, more at link if you haven't achieved a stroke yet.
I thought this guy was supposed to be a Conservative ?
Sounds like just another Dem.
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I'm all about no amnesty, but I know one of these kids. He was brought here as a youngster, his whole family is working, paying taxes, and they all have become citizens except him because he had a s**t lawyer who didn't file some stuff before he was too old for the deadline. He's a great guy, and he's screwed, and he's one of the people this order would help out.
I know they're not all like this kid, but if it works the way they're saying, it affects people who were minors when they were brought here.
I would guess that 50-75% of americans (us) know someone like that, and maybe that's why the poll numbers are the way they are.
It's not always black and white.
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I guess it boils down to whether Rubio considers himself a "Cuban American" or an "American of Cuban descent"!
Either way, it appears that folks born in third world sh!tholes are "victims" and deserve special treatment...
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I guess it boils down to whether Rubio considers himself a "Cuban American" or an "American of Cuban descent"!
Either way, it appears that folks born in third world sh!tholes are "victims" and deserve special treatment...
Jaybet is right. It's not always black and white.
Is there anyone here who would stay legal if doing so meant your children would starve?
Any and all crimes motivated by the desire to provide food for your family cannot be weighed equally.
Stealing vegetables from a garden, fruit from an orchard or taking rabbits and squirrels out of season are not the same as gunning down Brink's Guards to hoist the truck for food money.
In there, somewhere, lays entering the US illegally to find work to provide for your family and leading a legal life otherwise.
I wish I had a solution that would be work for Jaybet's example without absolving criminal behavior and without encouraging future violations.
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I've worked with at least a hundred green card immigrants and with few exceptions they worked hard and did what was asked of them. I've also worked (unknowingly) with several illegals who worked hard as well but dragged the pay scales down for the rest of the guys in the shop!
There is a path to work in this country for anyone who tries to follow the rules. I have no problem deporting the 800K people that will be protected by this so called amnesty plan! This was a purely political maneuver and it should not get a blessing simply because it may affect a hard working illegal!
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Jaybet is right. It's not always black and white.
Is there anyone here who would stay legal if doing so meant your children would starve?
Any and all crimes motivated by the desire to provide food for your family cannot be weighed equally.
Stealing vegetables from a garden, fruit from an orchard or taking rabbits and squirrels out of season are not the same as gunning down Brink's Guards to hoist the truck for food money.
In there, somewhere, lays entering the US illegally to find work to provide for your family and leading a legal life otherwise.
I wish I had a solution that would be work for Jaybet's example without absolving criminal behavior and without encouraging future violations.
It is black and white.
You are either here legally or you are not.
Are there hard luck stories ?
With out a doubt.
Does it change the basic facts ?
No.
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Jaybet makes a damn good point. 8)
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remember, our immigration is managed by bureaucrats. I know and have known many people that want to come here legally, have tried to do everything legally, yet turned away, not because they don't meet certain criteria, but because some bureaupuke is having a bad day. too much power is given to the agents that evaluate potential immigrants. ( I have been through this first hand with family, and all legal). if they don't like the way you talk, look, or where you are from, you have to come up with the cash to apply again and hope it's a different prick doing your paperwork. not saying they should be allowed regardless, but if we are to reform any immigration laws, let's start with who makes the life changing decisions for people that they don't even know. are there people trying to come in for illegal purposes, less than desirable? sure. but how do we determine who they are? everyone should have the same opportunity to TRY. not necessarily succeed, but try. criminals, politicians (sorry, they are the same aren't they?), and undesirables are turned away. do the paperwork and try to come in legally without fraud, lies etc... and your chances are better. honest people, no matter how humble their origins, are still honest people. let's make the 'process' something that allows people, no matter their monetary situation, the chance to 'apply' for a visa or green card or citizenship. too many of the wrong people are turned away and the riff raff that came illegally or by fraud take advantage of political situations (current) to turn everyone against each other.
no matter what happens, it will be wrong... and painful for we that vote for our country.
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Go ahead and make them legal aliens, grant them minority status, give them benefits, rights and education and they become protected under Affirmative Action laws and all of a sudden I'm competing against these people for work!
No thank you! It's hard enough competing against snot nosed recent graduates that can't find their ass with both hands and a flashlight!
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remember, our immigration is managed by bureaucrats. I know and have known many people that want to come here legally, have tried to do everything legally, yet turned away, not because they don't meet certain criteria, but because some bureaupuke is having a bad day. too much power is given to the agents that evaluate potential immigrants. ( I have been through this first hand with family, and all legal). if they don't like the way you talk, look, or where you are from, you have to come up with the cash to apply again and hope it's a different prick doing your paperwork. not saying they should be allowed regardless, but if we are to reform any immigration laws, let's start with who makes the life changing decisions for people that they don't even know. are there people trying to come in for illegal purposes, less than desirable? sure. but how do we determine who they are? everyone should have the same opportunity to TRY. not necessarily succeed, but try. criminals, politicians (sorry, they are the same aren't they?), and undesirables are turned away. do the paperwork and try to come in legally without fraud, lies etc... and your chances are better. honest people, no matter how humble their origins, are still honest people. let's make the 'process' something that allows people, no matter their monetary situation, the chance to 'apply' for a visa or green card or citizenship. too many of the wrong people are turned away and the riff raff that came illegally or by fraud take advantage of political situations (current) to turn everyone against each other.
no matter what happens, it will be wrong... and painful for we that vote for our country.
I hope you all realize that this post is not to make them all legal, but to reevaluate the way we choose. as I said, it depends on some bureaucrats day whether or not someone is approved or not. and we all know how petty a bureauprick can be.
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I hope you all realize that this post is not to make them all legal, but to reevaluate the way we choose. as I said, it depends on some bureaucrats day whether or not someone is approved or not. and we all know how petty a bureauprick can be.
No problem here...the system has been broken for years and becomes a hot button issue every four years just like a handful of other completely inane issues to rile up the masses of people who can't see the forest for the trees!
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It is a black and white issue. You are legal or you are not. If you were brought as a minor and are now an adult, at the age of 18 you began breaking the law as an adult.
I will flex on this one:
Give them the amnesty. Sign all the BS they sign in DC, and give them ten business days from the day after the signatures are penned to file for legal status. Anybody that files in that period will have the same legal status as anyone trying to enter the country. Give them an advantage of having been here and staying out of trouble, and move them to the front of the immigration line. However, anybody that does not file within ten business days, anyone found to have a criminal record here regardless of the age when committed, anyone having a disqualifying criminal record in their home country, and anyone that is working the social services system gets a free ride on the big green bus to the border.
Step two, all unemployed will be offered the work these people held. Fix two problems at once. You don't want to work legally with our system you are out. You are a citizen and you don't want to work you go it on your own.
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The law, f*cked up or not, specifies the LEGAL methods of coming into the country.
If you do not comply you are a criminal .
The President and all "sanctuary cities and states" are criminals since rather than change they law they choose to ignore it or skirt it.
Would they be so sanguine about an "undocumented suppressor" or a white guy driving with out bothering to get a license ?
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I don't know about the supressor, but Frank at the car wash I used to work for drove all the time without a license. He lost it from way to many DUIs. And yes he is white.
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Here's Marco Rubio's thought on the subject.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/marco-rubio-us-illegally/story?id=16601077 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/marco-rubio-us-illegally/story?id=16601077)
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Here's Marco Rubio's thought on the subject.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/marco-rubio-us-illegally/story?id=16601077 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/marco-rubio-us-illegally/story?id=16601077)
I included that in my OP as condemnation of another RINO scumbag.
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It is black and white.
You are either here legally or you are not.
Are there hard luck stories ?
With out a doubt.
Does it change the basic facts ?
No.
I can't disagree with any of that.
What is a shame, though, is that, with these exceptions that have been mentioned, we can see the traits we would want in any immigrant to this country and, by law, we need to deport them and take our chances with the next name on the list.....sort of like passing on a shot at a Boone and Crockett buck in hopes of getting a better one during the hunt.
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I can't disagree with any of that.
What is a shame, though, is that, with these exceptions that have been mentioned, we can see the traits we would want in any immigrant to this country and, by law, we need to deport them and take our chances with the next name on the list.....sort of like passing on a shot at a Boone and Crockett buck in hopes of getting a better one during the hunt.
Then change the law, but what ever it is ENFORCE IT .
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Then change the law, but what ever it is ENFORCE IT .
Exactly. But, sadly, I don't even think that will work. None of us here will be making the selection.
The objective of this directive is not to keep the most independent and capable citizens. It is to get as many votes as possible and that is best accomplished by selecting those who will be the most needy and dependent upon the government.
We need to rid the country of the welfare programs and stop the buying of votes before it is gonna work.
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Exactly. But, sadly, I don't even think that will work. None of us here will be making the selection.
The objective of this directive is not to keep the most independent and capable citizens. It is to get as many votes as possible and that is best accomplished by selecting those who will be the most needy and dependent upon the government.
We need to rid the country of the welfare programs and stop the buying of votes before it is gonna work.
That would also eliminate the deficit spending.
Tax revenues provide enough money for the Govt to pay all of its bills.
That includes Defense, Foreign aid, education, Social Security, and both the wars, (Iraq and Afghanistan ) with a small amount left over.
That small amount and the additional 60% that we borrow every year goes entirely to "hand out type" welfare entitlements.