The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: philw on September 23, 2012, 05:29:21 AM
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http://www.news.com.au/world/police-officer-shoots-dead-pen-wielding-amputee/story-fndir2ev-1226479631034
A US police officer has shot and killed a one-armed, one-legged man in a wheelchair after the double amputee waved a metal object that turned out to be a pen.
Police spokeswoman Jodi Silva said the man cornered the officer at a Houston, Texas, group home on Saturday and was making threats while trying to stab the officer with the pen.
At the time, the officer did not know what man was waving, Silva said.
She said the man came "within inches to a foot" of the officer and did not follow instructions to calm down and remain still.
"Fearing for his partner's safety and his own safety, he discharged his weapon," Silva said.
Police did not immediately release the name of the man who was killed.
They had been called to the home after a caretaker there reported that a man in a wheelchair was causing a disturbance.
The owner of the group home, John Garcia, told the Houston Chronicle that the man had a history of mental illness and had been living at the house about 18 months.
Garcia said the man had told him he lost a leg above the knee and one arm when he was hit by a train.
"He sometimes would go off a bit, but you just ignore it," Garcia told the newspaper.
Silva identified the officer as Matthew Jacob Marin, a five-year veteran of the department.
He was immediately placed on three-day administrative leave, which is standard in all shootings involving officers.
Houston police records indicate that Marin also fatally shot a suspect in 2009.
Investigators at the time said Marin came upon a man stabbing his neighbour to death at an apartment complex and opened fire when the suspect refused to drop the knife.
hmm think they are missing some details however i think the copper was a little quick on the trigger
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a cop couldnt knock the pen out of a one armed and one legged man with a batton or taser - hell even a mag-lite torch would work
pretty ordinary police work imho
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um, sop for most departments is less the 21 feet with a blade or striking weapon = shoot. A pin, more so if its metal and shiny could be mistaken for a knife very easily. Now add in some one that is acting hostile... AND BANG! now I am not saying thats how it went down, just another view of what could have happend. The artical is not exactly full of facts.
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um, sop for most departments is less the 21 feet with a blade or striking weapon = shoot. A pin, more so if its metal and shiny could be mistaken for a knife very easily. Now add in some one that is acting hostile... AND BANG! now I am not saying thats how it went down, just another view of what could have happend. The artical is not exactly full of facts.
Dude, one arm, one leg, in a wheel chair with something shiny that could have been a knife.
How many more details do you need ?
This trigger happy cop could have gone up a couple stairs, or jammed his night stick in the chairs wheels and tazed the guy from a safe distance of 5 ft.
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Dude, one arm, one leg, in a wheel chair with something shiny that could have been a knife.
How many more details do you need ?
This trigger happy cop could have gone up a couple stairs, or jammed his night stick in the chairs wheels and tazed the guy from a safe distance of 5 ft.
am I the only one that this makes me thinks of Monty Pythons Black Knight fight?
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After seeing the report on the news, (Guy is a Skitzoid {yeah, I know, SP} and was moving to attack one cop, the officer's partner shot the guy.)
I say it's a justified shot.
Registered mental paitient, something in the hand, trying to attack officer. -BANG.
How many times have I read "shoot the mad dog" on these forums? The cop did just that and is getting greif for it? ???
Can't have it both ways.
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The artical also says he was less then a foot away. thats well with in deadly range of a knife. just a fyi it is also sop to not use a tazer or other less then leathal weapon unless you are back up by another officer with a leathal weapon drawn and ready.
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What kind of gutless chickensh!t azzhole thinks it's ever justified to shoot a one armed one legged guy in a wheel chair ?
The trigger happy cop,Ulmas and TAB.
Takes a real bad azz to use a whole bullet on a half a person. :-\
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If it was you or me who pulled the trigger under the same exact conditions where do you think we would be spending the rest of our life , quite frankly my wife could have handled it much better, here we have a ((highly trained police officer)) who is trained in defense skills and non-lethal force skills who has all different kinds of equipment hanging on his belt besides his pistol, just think about this put yourself in the wheelchair and use one leg and one hand now try and control and maneuver a wheelchair and at the same time have a pen in your hand and try and catch somebody , I am coming up with three different tasks but only one hand and one leg something is really missing with this picture, and what I think is wrong is what we are letting them get away with they keep giving themselves more power and somehow make everything they do justifiable, I remember quite a few years ago I believe it was in New York City the police went into a apartment building and they went up behind somebody ordered them to stop and to drop what he had in this hands, grocery shopping bags, and that person did not ((comply)) so they shot him well it turns out that he was deaf and could not hear the commands, so how powerful is that word ((comply))
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Why would the cop shoot a dead guy?
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What kind of gutless chickensh!t azzhole thinks it's ever justified to shoot a one armed one legged guy in a wheel chair ?
The trigger happy cop,Ulmas and TAB.
Takes a real bad azz to use a whole bullet on a half a person. :-\
Remember: Schizophrenia
Schizophrenia is a mental disorder that makes it hard to:
Tell the difference between what is real and not real
Think clearly
Have normal emotional responses
Act normally in social situations
Paranoid schizophrenia symptoms may include:
Anxiety
Anger or arguing
False beliefs that others are trying to harm you or your loved ones
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001925/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001925/)
If the guy believes that he is going to be killed and tries to kill the cop in a mental rage/panic then tasers and mace will most likely not work.
When the full report comes out we'll have the best chance to review all the evidense, until then, I'm going to back the cops and say justified shooting.
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I heard on the news to night ( pinch of salt) that the guy in the wheel chair had his partner pinned in a corner. no of us were there, and news reports lie... But if every thing reported is true. Then it is looking more and more like a good shoot. granted alot of Qs need to be answered.
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The dude had one arm and one leg.
Kick the farken wheel chair over ffs.
Good shoot my left nut.
If the guy was able bodied not a prob, he wasn't!
Your seriously telling me two seemingly able bodied and fit for duty cops could not wrangle a guy with one arm and one leg in a WHEEL CHAIR?
If that's the case then they both need to ride the desk for the rest of their careers, that or get a job at do-nut king!
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The dude had one arm and one leg.
Kick the farken wheel chair over ffs.
Good shoot my left nut.
If the guy was able bodied not a prob, he wasn't!
Your seriously telling me two seemingly able bodied and fit for duty cops could not wrangle a guy with one arm and one leg in a WHEEL CHAIR?
If that's the case then they both need to ride the desk for the rest of their careers, that or get a job at do-nut king!
Agreed. If the officer thought it was a gun, then it was a good shoot, a one armed guy ina wheel chair can be as dangerous as the best trained soldier if he has a pistol. If he thought it was a knife? What part of backing up didn't he get?Literally, take two steps back, figure you're faster then the one legged, one armed guy in the chair and proceed accordingly. After all, a one armed man simply cannot move forward in a wheel chair and threaten you with a "knife" at the same time. Its one or the other. This guy will be sharing a cell with Zimmerman. To quote Pincus there is a difference between can and should. Unless you honestly believed that your life or some innocents was on the line, the gun should stay unfired. Jackass! >:(
FQ13
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read my post...
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read my post...
hmmm ok
The artical also says he was less then a foot away. thats well with in deadly range of a knife. just a fyi it is also sop to not use a tazer or other less then leathal weapon unless you are back up by another officer with a leathal weapon drawn and ready.
So somehow a person who is a person trained to serve and protect was surrounded and put in a corner by a one armed and one legged individual in a wheel chair, their tactical astuteness must be outstanding . Their partner another seemingly adept tactical mastermind determined that his only course of action was to shoot the extremely agile individual.
Now I know we wasn't there, and we don't know all the circumstances, but its pretty bloody sad when two supposed able bodied coppers cant subdue and restrain a one armed/legged dude in a wheel chair with out having to resort to shooting him. If they aren't then heaven help the people of Houston if there is ever any riots, crowd control etc needed. What will these guys use to quell the danger then a Apache Helicopter and a Gatling Gun?
BTW
How does one hand cuff a one armed dude? I suppose you could cuff him to a flag pole and watch him hop in circles?
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hmmm ok
So somehow a person who is a person trained to serve and protect was surrounded and put in a corner by a one armed and one legged individual in a wheel chair, their tactical astuteness must be outstanding . Their partner another seemingly adept tactical mastermind determined that his only course of action was to shoot the extremely agile individual.
Now I know we wasn't there, and we don't know all the circumstances, but its pretty bloody sad when two supposed able bodied coppers cant subdue and restrain a one armed/legged dude in a wheel chair with out having to resort to shooting him.
I"m not saying whether the shoot was good or bad without more info - I wasn't there either.
Some things to consider:
How long has this guy been in a chair? A week, 8 months, 10 yrs?
Was the guy acting "reasonably normal" when the cops got there and that's what caused them to get within arms reach? To 'talk him down?' (tactics)
They weren't on a parking lot - they could have been in a 10'x12' bedroom.
What you get dispatched on and what you find when you get there are often not the same thing.
On edit: I know I wouldn't want to be the defendant in this case.
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Without seeing the entire encounter on video, we are not going to be able to make a "for sure" evaluation of the situation.
On the other hand, my hunch is that some where along the way, two able bodied and smarter than a rock cops should have been able to prevent or avoid a lethal confrontation with a double amputee in a wheel chair....even if it is kicking him and his chair away and risk taking a slash to the leg to do it.
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With the right mindset and motivation, a wheelchair ain't sh!t.... Like the guy in Florida a few years ago with no arms the stole a car and led cops on a chase.
Not to hi-jack the thread, but just ask USMC Cpl. Todd Love......
http://www.uproxx.com/gammasquad/2012/08/todd-love-team-extreme-spartan-race/
(http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/corporal-todd-love_spartan-race-01.jpg)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/29/todd-love-triple-amputee-marine-veteran-spartan-race_n_1840261.html
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With the right mindset and motivation, a wheelchair ain't sh!t.... Like the guy in Florida a few years ago with no arms the stole a car and led cops on a chase.
This is true....but if two cops standing 20 feet from him had to shoot him dead to stop him, I'd be be wondering......
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This is true....but if two cops standing 20 feet from him had to shoot him dead to stop him, I'd be be wondering......
Of course, that should be understood from the get-go.
I wasn't necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with one point or another so to speak...... just stating that you can't always judge the individual by appearance and physical stature alone.
Each situation brings its own spin.
I don't care how bad-ass a guy in a wheelchair is, distance is on your side if he isn't armed with a gun.
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Heard it mentioned on the news, I think FOX, that the guy in the wheelchair had the cop in a corner.
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How could a dead guy have a cop cornered?
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Of course, that should be understood from the get-go.
I wasn't necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with one point or another so to speak...... just stating that you can't always judge the individual by appearance and physical stature alone.
Each situation brings its own spin.
I don't care how bad-ass a guy in a wheelchair is, distance is on your side if he isn't armed with a gun.
You know, that is likely what happened...the cops figured he was nothing to worry about, went around inspecting..and maybe one of them even got his nose in the corner and the wheel chair guy pinned him in there...facing into the corner...with something shiny in his hand.....
Cops fault is probably with letting the situation develop rather than that they shot their way out of it.
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Don't have all the facts but a couple other things to consider....
Some Depts have been forced to take Tazers away from officers due to lawsuits and hitting him with a mag light will guarantee a lawsuit for "improper use of quipment." If he hit him with the baton, now it's "excessive force."
Either was this officer is basically screwed. He might be justified in court of the shoot but he'll never be able to work the street again.
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I heard on the news this evening that his mandatory 3-day administrative leave is over... he's back on patrol tomorrow.