The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: ericire12 on April 27, 2008, 10:43:51 AM
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First off.... before I begin this Glock rant, in the interest of full disclosure (And so HAWKFISH doesn't get his panties in a bunch) let me say this:
I am a huge Glock supporter. I love my Glocks. Glock was the first handgun that I ever bought, and it is always the first handgun that I recommend. I LOVE GLOCKS!
Now, my question is When is Glock going to evolve?
Since the Glock was introduced in the early 1980s we have seen little new come out of the company that makes one of the most rugged and reliable handguns in the world. In 1982 they did something innovative by introducing the G17. It started an industry wide epidemic and launched a line of pistols that has become world renowned among law enforcement and military organizations. Since then we have seen little to nothing from the company.
Many companies have cloned the Glock design over the years and made improvements along the way , but Glock refuses to grow. Over the years, they have expanded selection to include almost every desirable handgun caliber. They have also made a few updates to their original frame design, but Glock as a company has really missed the boat. Although they have one of the most renowned names in the gun industry, they have refused to branch out and create anything other then their traditional striker fired polymer pistol.
Why they have done this is beyond me. They have some of the worlds greatest gun minds working for them. They have world class manufacturing facilities, and almost 30 years of gun manufacturing experience to fall back on. So where are the new models? Where is the Glock revolver? The Glock 1911? The Glock AR-15? The Glock tactical shotgun? The Glock bolt action rifle? The Glock rimfires? Where is the Glock micro auto loading pocket pistol?
It truly boggles my mind that Ruger would beat Glock to the punch and put out a polymer clone of the cult favorite Kel Tec P-3AT. I had been preaching this to my shooting buddies for years, all the while Glock drags its knuckles and does nothing. Who better to create a pocket .380 then Glock? I guess Ruger...... And they are going to sell a ton of those little pistols too!
Yes, we have seen some improvements to the Glock line of hand guns over the years. There have been three evolutions of the frame, but they have been rather insignificant and mostly common sense. There has been an addition of a tactical light rail, but that was mostly to convince people to buy their ridiculously over priced name brand tactical light. Oh and lets not forget the OD color option now available (Very high up there on the cool factor, yet purely cosmetic). But where are the significant improvements that everyone else in the industry realized were needed? Where are the ambidextrous slide stop and mag release? Where is the extended mag release button? Where is the interchangeable backstrap? Where is the double strike capabilities? Where is the match grade barrel? I could go on and on.....
Nearly 30 years ago Glock gave us one of the premier personal defense auto loaders and started an industry wide polymer revolution. Since then they have given us a knife, a shovel, and a flashlight. I don't know about you, but I feel a little disappointed. I am very brand loyal to Glock, and I would own an entire Glock arsenal if I could, but over the past three decades they have refused to evolve and give me the chance to go deer hunting with that Glock bolt action that I covet so much. The bottom line here is that Glock is leaving money on the table in both the civilian and military markets. Why do they not understand this? Well, its beyond me.... But I wish they would figure it out before Christmas!
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Try posting this on the Glock forum...The company might pay some attention to it there. Remember change might be a good thing for Glock. I for one (MOO) prefer the original frame without the finger grooves and I think they should offer that as an option but like my wife...they don't listen to me either.
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The Glock I really want is a Single Stack .45ACP. Think of a big G36
EDIT: Oh yeah one word regarding changing "perfection": 1911
Basically the same thing it has been with minute changes according to manufacturer.
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Why would they want to try to break into already crowded markets, ( AR, shotgun, etc) when they have such a large share of a Market they invented ( polymer pistols ) Heck, the Glock name is synonomous with polymer pistls, ask hollywood ;D The other things you mention such as a match barrel are simply modifications of their current design. I'm betting that when Glock introduces something new, It will be REALLY new, a magnetic rail pistol or laser gun, something as wildly new as the "Plastic pistol" of the 70's
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Try posting this on the Glock forum...
You got a www on that?
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Why would they want to try to break into already crowded markets, ( AR, shotgun, etc) when they have such a large share of a Market they invented ( polymer pistols )
Thats simple: Money. Any revolver, 1911, shotgun, AR etc that they make will sell - as long as it is made to the same high standards that their current pistols are. Right now they are leaving money on the table with gun sales that cant be completed simply because they wont manufactured it. From a business perspective, it doesnt make sense. From a consumer perspective, I'd be chomping at the bit to run out and buy it.
I'm betting that when Glock introduces something new, It will be REALLY new, a magnetic rail pistol or laser gun, something as wildly new as the "Plastic pistol" of the 70's
30 years.... we're still waiting......
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The bottom line here is that Glock is leaving money on the table in both the civilian and military markets?
The last I read GLOCK can't make guns fast enough to keep up with demand. Making money hand over fist. Large market share. I guess if it's not broken don't fix it. I may buy a GLOCK one day.
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The last I read GLOCK can't make guns fast enough to keep up with demand. Making money hand over fist. Large market share. I guess if it's not broken don't fix it. I may buy a GLOCK one day.
I don't know about all that. Yes Glocks are good sellers, but when is the last time you walked into a gun shop and couldn't find a Glock for sale? They are everywhere (you know, aside from Wal-Mart ;D). Very easy to find and very easy to buy. Not too many backlogs out there.
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oh they have made changes to glocks of the years... they just do tell you about it.
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My home club hosted the first GSSF, GLOCK MATCH, in Texas about 1992, the head of the Gssf at that time was Chris Edwards, and I think still is, higher ups were easier to rub shoulders with at that time. I told him I thought it would be a good idea to alter the frame design to accept interchangeable inserts for the back strap, arched, flat, thin etc... for different hand sizes and personal preference. I showed him how I would do it, and He thought it was a good idea. Next years match rolls around and I asked him if Glock had given any thought to my idea, and I'm not quoting, but something to the effect, Gaston Glock thinks his pistol is perfect :-[. I think it was 2 years later the Walther 99 came out using my idea, and now several are using it, just makes sense. I know from My contacts at Glock they have toyed with a carbine using Glock mags, and I think they would sell like hotcakes ;). But know one has seen one yet. They do have a .380 in europe, but it is on a 17 frame, it is just for those countries who don't allow military ammunition to be used by police or civilians. In short, you have to convince Gaston, and that is not easy. >:(
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Last time I checked I just typed in Glock Talk and got their forum.
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I'm kind of waiting to see if they'll do a Glock 17 SF. Not that the full 17 grip is in need of grip reduction FOR ME. I do know, however, that some people do require it.
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I just thought of two cjanges I would like to see that ccf has made...NO FINGER GROOVES and INTERCHANGABLE backstraps to make the Glock point more like a 1911.
Richard
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i'd like to see a safety, but I forgot... they are perfect. Must be the imprefect users that have probs with them ::)
Any designer/engineer that says something is perfect, thier head is so big it won't fit thru the door. There is a reason why I am no longer a structural engineer...
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First off.... before I begin this Glock rant, in the interest of full disclosure (And so HAWKFISH doesn't get his panties in a bunch) let me say this:
I am a huge Glock supporter. I love my Glocks. Glock was the first handgun that I ever bought, and it is always the first handgun that I recommend. I LOVE GLOCKS!
First off... I don't wear panties. Second, I only rant or talk about Glock when stupid people say stuff that isn't true. Third, I don't care if you like Smith & Wesson, Springfield, Kimber, Tauras, Kel-tec, Colt, Ruger, Wilson,.... whatever.. I don't care. I like other guns besides Glock. What I don't like is people telling lies or saying stuff that is false.. only because they don't like Glock. I have lots of friends that don't like Glock and it doesn't matter.. except for at the range of course, when I out shoot them and their more expensive guns everytime...
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First off.... before I begin this Glock rant, in the interest of full disclosure (And so HAWKFISH doesn't get his panties in a bunch) let me say this:
I am a huge Glock supporter. I love my Glocks. Glock was the first handgun that I ever bought, and it is always the first handgun that I recommend. I LOVE GLOCKS!
First off... I don't wear panties. Second, I only rant or talk about Glock when stupid people say stuff that isn't true. Third, I don't care if you like Smith & Wesson, Springfield, Kimber, Tauras, Kel-tec, Colt, Ruger, Wilson,.... whatever.. I don't care. I like other guns besides Glock. What I don't like is people telling lies or saying stuff that is false.. only because they don't like Glock. I have lots of friends that don't like Glock and it doesn't matter.. except for at the range of course, when I out shoot them and their more expensive guns everytime...
;D
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I have to put in my .02 I would love to own a Glock, but there are several other hanguns I want first. It is a great gun, maybe the best performing pistol out there? I would love to see a Glock carbine of some sort. If they were to come out with one I would have to have both pistol and carbine, and they would be at the top of my list. No doubt about it they would make money.
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I have to put in my .02 I would love to own a Glock, but there are several other hanguns I want first. It is a great gun, maybe the best performing pistol out there? I would love to see a Glock carbine of some sort. If they were to come out with one I would have to have both pistol and carbine, and they would be at the top of my list. No doubt about it they would make money.
Magpul has a glock "carbine" in development. It would classify as a SBR I believe.
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A thin single stack 9mm would be nice - if they had made one 5 years ago when everyone was begging them to - Kahr would not be in business today...
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Re: When is Glock going to evolve?
The answer is "when they stop making money on their current product line."
They lead the market IMHO on polymer pistols that are ultra reliable.
They come out with a minor mod every so often (GAP, SF models etc.) just to appear alive but they seem to be happy with raking in the big bucks with their current line.
Do not hold your breath for a 1911 or drastic departure from their status quo.
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One smidge of evolution I'd like - just a skosh more basepad on the Glock 26/27 - not the huge block like on the Glock 30.
Enough for my pinkie finger.
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Many a company has rested on the laurels only to find themselves out'd overnight. I've had the mis-fortune of working for a number of them. Wang Labs, the original MCI, Sperry-Univac to name a few.
Walther, IMO, took it to the next level with the P99AS. True SA/DA like a 1911, striker fired with a decocker and no manual safety. It didn't (doesn't) have to be polymer, but that's what everybody craves.
And the Sig 250, though not hammerless, is a significant paradigm shift. It'll be interesting to see if large buyers (LEOs) go for the concept. If you're arming large numbers of people and have an armorer this seems to be very neat concept.
MS25OPERATOR: Interchangeable backstraps go back at least to the Colt Match Target Woodsman, ~1950s. Someone may have done it before then.
Alf
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If the XD can so can Glock!
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When they need to.
When they can't compete/lose too many contracts because they don't have adjustable grips, ambi mag/slide release, manual/mag safety, field strip w/o pulling trigger, etc. Until then, not likely to see any of that evolutionary stuff on Gaston's original intelligent design.
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Try posting this on the Glock forum...The company might pay some attention to it there. Remember change might be a good thing for Glock. I for one (MOO) prefer the original frame without the finger grooves and I think they should offer that as an option but like my wife...they don't listen to me either.
Update: Done!
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10599013#post10599013
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I could be wrong, but the new .50GI round upper conversion picked the Glock first. If I'm wrong I apologize. However, with sales and marketing it may be available for other brands soon. Like the M+P 8)
Is it an evolution? I don't know.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,..........Hawkfish should reply shortly... ;D
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I could be wrong, but the new .50GI round upper conversion picked the Glock first. If I'm wrong I apologize. However, with sales and marketing it may be available for other brands soon. Like the M+P 8)
Is it an evolution? I don't know.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,..........Hawkfish should reply shortly... ;D
As I understand it, it is not a Glock venture, but rather another company all together...... It is also available for the 1911 platform.
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As I understand it, it is not a Glock venture, but rather another company all together...... It is also available for the 1911 platform.
Yes,I've seen ads for it in the last couple of American Rifleman magazines, It might have been Shooting Times. Of course I can't find the Darn ad now.
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ericire12 I hope your post on the Glock forum gets some attention from the higherups. The loyal Glockaphiles are blind to change, as usual, and will never see your side (you make excellent points). If Glocks were perfect the aftermarket business wouldn't exist. If Glock is so busy making the perfect pistol why aren't they building and expanding and hiring and training to catch up with the backlog?
Richard
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Update: Those guys on "That other forum"
ericire12 I hope your post on the Glock forum gets some attention from the higherups. The loyal Glockaphiles are blind to change, as usual, and will never see your side (you make excellent points). If Glocks were perfect the aftermarket business wouldn't exist. If Glock is so busy making the perfect pistol why aren't they building and expanding and hiring and training to catch up with the backlog?
Richard
Isn't that the truth! Go read through some of the comments on that thread..... It was like I insulted a member of their family or something. They truly worship at the alter over there. I think those guys over there at "that other forum" run home from work every night and fondle themselves while they are cleaning their guns.
Some of my favorite comments from over there:
Since when are you a firearms marketing executive who knows what Glock can or cannot do, and what markets they should be in? Glock can't keep up as it is, why change?
They don't cater to people like you who want a bunch of bull**** 'accessories' like extended releases, adjustable backstraps, and un-needed safeties. Those items just make a pistol less reliable.
Very few companies are in Glock's shoes. They have to 'upgrade' their guns with worthless crap to sell more. Look at the XD.
If you want the flavor of the month, try SiG.
How do you spell perfect pistol? G-L-O-C-K
How do you improve perfection?
XD clone it, try to make it better, failed. M&P tried, failed(and don't get me start with sigma). they all end up becoming a good pistols, but not better, therefore it's really much room to evolve.
Glock will evolve when the Shark evolves.
Great point about the aftermarket business as well.
As far as the back log is concerned, Those guys at "that other forum" are quick to throw out numbers of the 10s of thousands of units in back order, but I have yet to see any actual evidence of this. And as far as my own observations are concerned, there probably really isnt any back order of any kind. I mean, when was the last time you walked into a gun shop and didn't see any Glocks available for sale. Its not like you have to get on a wait list to buy one or anything. They are available everywhere.
And for the record - with regards to that guy who commented "Since when are you a firearms marketing executive who knows what Glock can or cannot do". I would just like to say, I do have a MBA and an undergraduates degree in business as well. So, I do know a thing or two about how things need to be done in the corporate world, and yes Glock is leaving money on the table.
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ericire12...I did read some of the posts. That is what prompted me to reply. If Glock has such a backlog why are there so many unsold Glocks at gunshows and shops? There may be a backlog but it is for special models and not the run-of-the-mill models. If their so popular why aren't the run-of-the-mill models sold out too?
Richard
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There is no doubt that the "G" pistol is one of the best made. There is an entire display, in my little gun shop, here in coastal NC of ready to go Glocks for sale NIB, with a few trade ins. ALWAYS. Never a shortage and if you don't see it, they can get it in a week.
Not quite sure of a back log,.. Priced all around 450 to 550 dollars.
I don't own one yet, but I will just because I have that gun addiction toward getting the ones that are the most reliable,user friendly,durable, accurate,..etc,.. I haven't gotten one, because its almost like everybody else has one,...
Walther PPK, 1911, Model 19's, AR's, Rem 870, 10/22, AND the Glock 19, are true awesome, timeless, firearms, BUT all have done something to appeal to the consumer in some way, and have to keep up with the times. Stocks, backstraps, grips,sights,bells and whistles (even as an option), will keep sales. Even if those dam*** accessories pi** some off. Gun makers want NEW buyers, and have to one up the other ones with something that stands out.
Just my $.02 cents (pre-tax).
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The only thing GLOCK can do to "evolve" is fix the unsupported chamber problem . I carried 1 for 17 years. There is no better duty pistol, just wish the handle was adjustable.
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The only thing GLOCK can do to "evolve" is fix the unsupported chamber problem . I carried 1 for 17 years. There is no better duty pistol, just wish the handle was adjustable.
Lets all remember here that I am commenting more on Glock, the company needing to evolve more so then Glock, the polymer striker fired pistol. Aside from the lack of possible upgrades they could make to their pistol to make it more universal to consumers (i.e. the ambidextrous controls, the interchangeable backstraps, etc.), they are without a doubt the most rugged and reliable polymer striker fired pistol on the market.
The greater point that I am trying to make here is that Glock as a company leaves many market segments within the firearms industry untouched. They already have the brain power, experience, property, plant, and equipment necessary to enter into new segments of the industry with minimal cost.
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The only thing GLOCK can do to "evolve" is fix the unsupported chamber problem . I carried 1 for 17 years. There is no better duty pistol, just wish the handle was adjustable.
Even a long-time Glock user notes 2 improvements to be made. The market is passing them by. Only their trade-in deals with Law Enforcement is keeping their popularity up.
The XD and the M&P are both better guns, but the Glock is firmly entrenched.
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The XD and the M&P are both better guns, but the Glock is firmly entrenched.
You will hurt Hawkfish's feeling you meany ;D
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The Glock, M&P, and XD are all good guns.
Good enough to win matches and gunfights. All of 'em can beat the others (and 1911s) in the right hands.
If a pistol can group under 4 inches at 25 yds, go 2K rounds between malfunctions, and last at least 20K rounds it's good enough for gummint work. These days, more and more gummints are adding things like adjustable grips, frame rail, ambi controls, and no trigger pull for takedwon to the list. The US military still wants a manual safety, but the way the USAF describes it in the Modular Handgun System Q&A is "interesting":
Safety Mechanism
QUESTION: - What is the requirement of the external, manually operated safety button/switch? Is it only to keep the pistol from firing, even if the trigger is pulled?
ANSWER: The safety button/switch will prevent the loaded cartridge from firing if the pistol is dropped or struck and mechanically prevents the firing pin/striker from contacting the cartridge primer.
Contracts and competition are the natural selection of the evolutionary process in the gun world. Gaston is stubborn, but he aint no dinosaur. Yet.
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Now, my question is When is Glock going to evolve?
One day when Gaston walks along a road and suddenly, from out of nowhere a bolt of lighting strikes a bush and sets it on fire. Then, a voice emerges from the burning bush and says:
"Gaston, it ain't perfect".
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The XD and the M&P are both better guns, but the Glock is firmly entrenched.
I'm on the fence about the XD, maybe the M will be a little better but the M&P is FAR more comfortable to shoot and control than my G17.
Safety Mechanism
QUESTION: - What is the requirement of the external, manually operated safety button/switch? Is it only to keep the pistol from firing, even if the trigger is pulled?
ANSWER: The safety button/switch will prevent the loaded cartridge from firing if the pistol is dropped or struck and mechanically prevents the firing pin/striker from contacting the cartridge primer.
Doesn't specifically EXCLUDE the Glock's trigger safety as an external safety nor does it spell out that the safety has to be in addition to a firing pin block disengaged by the trigger pull. Typicall guvment requirement, just vague enough to be open and not specific enough to make what they want perfectly clear.
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[quote author=jnevis link=topic=2105.msg26120#msg26120 date=1212852456
Typicall guvment requirement, just vague enough to be open and not specific enough to make what they want perfectly clear.
[/quote]
Yep, the worst of both worlds ;D
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Man, I've been sleepin'....you mean Glocks are changing....you mean they are going to make them purty now? Use a little stainless, maybe a dab of Bloomberg blue here and there like the Neos?
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Glocks have evolved plenty; they have changed just about every part on the gun since it came out, some parts several times. If some trends continue, may have to evolve a bit more.
As far as a manual safety, what the "indefinitely postponed" JCP/CP said:
3.4.6. Safety:
3.4.6.1. DA/SA Pistols. The JCP in the DA/SA configuration shall have an internal safety mechanism that prevents the loaded cartridge from firing if the pistol is dropped or struck and mechanically prevents the firing pin/striker from contacting the cartridge primer unless the trigger is pulled (T). DA/SA pistols shall have a de-cocking lever that lowers the hammer from a cocked position and returns the pistol to DA mode when activated (T). The JCP design shall prevent the firing of a chambered cartridge when the hammer is cocked and the de-cocking lever is activated (T). The operator shall be capable of activating the de-cocking lever with the firing hand (T). The operator should be capable of activating the de-cocking lever without shifting the firing grip (O). If configured with external safety, the weapon shall meet the requirements of 3.4.6.1.1.
3.4.6.1.1. DA/SA Pistols with External Safety. The JCP in DA/SA mode with an external manual safety shall meet all the requirements of 3.4.6.1 with the addition of: The external manual safety shall prevent firing when the manual safety is applied and the trigger is pulled (T). The operator shall be capable of activating the external manual safety with the firing hand (T). The operator should be capable of activating the external manual safety without shifting the firing grip (O).
3.4.6.2. DAO Pistols. The JCP in DAO shall have an internal safety mechanism that prevents the loaded cartridge from firing if the pistol is dropped or struck and mechanically prevents the firing pin/striker from contacting the cartridge primer unless the trigger is pulled (T). If configured with an external safety, the pistol shall meet the requirements of 3.4.6.2.1.
3.4.6.2.1. DAO Pistols with External Safety. The JCP in DAO with an external safety shall meet the requirements of 3.4.6.2 with the addition of: The external safety shall prevent firing when applied and the trigger is pulled (T). When configured with an external safety, the operator shall be capable of activating and deactivating the external safety with the firing hand (T), and should be capable of activating and deactivating the external safety without shifting the firing grip (O).
So... maybe 3.4.6.1.1 and 3.4.6.2.1 don't apply to the MHS since they didn't mention it this time? The trigger safety on the Glock/XD/M&P, the grip safety on the XD are enough?
Hey, they considered the single action striker fired action of the XD a DA/SA pistol for contract purposes in the JCP/CP!?
51. Item 3.4.1 Action. Will all Striker Fired Actions be considered Double Action Only regardless of what the striker does during the action of pulling the trigger? Is there any Double Action definition as to what makes it a DA or DA pull? How will Double Action be defined?
Answer: The specification will be changed to state: DA/SA is defined as an action that sets and releases the sear with the first pull of the trigger, with subsequent shots being single action, only releasing the sear from a preset position, to fire the weapon. DAO/ Striker Fire is defined as an action that sets and released the sear with every pull of the trigger. Note: Any Striker Fire action that fully sets the sear will be considered DA/SA.
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There are restrictions on what can be imported.
BATFE has a Point System that Glock must meet. I believe that a handgun must score 75 points to be allowed. Lower than 75, no go.
Many things add points to a gun. Larger caliber adds more points. Over all length adds point and perhaps barrel length does.
Type of sights and type of trigger do also.
All Glocks arrive with cheap adjustable sights for 10 points. They are removed and replace with standard fixed sights.
Compact size Glocks also come with "Target" triger which is simply serrated on the face.
The .380 Glock just can't be tricked out enough to gain enough points for import.
Finally they came out with a 21 that fits my hand..don't know why they think everyone has hands the size of a Yeti..maybe they are found in the Austrian Alps too?
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There are restrictions on what can be imported.
BATFE has a Point System that Glock must meet. I believe that a handgun must score 75 points to be allowed. Lower than 75, no go.
Many things add points to a gun. Larger caliber adds more points. Over all length adds point and perhaps barrel length does.
Type of sights and type of trigger do also.
All Glocks arrive with cheap adjustable sights for 10 points. They are removed and replace with standard fixed sights.
Compact size Glocks also come with "Target" triger which is simply serrated on the face.
The .380 Glock just can't be tricked out enough to gain enough points for import.
Finally they came out with a 21 that fits my hand..don't know why they think everyone has hands the size of a Yeti..maybe they are found in the Austrian Alps too?
Making them in Smyrna Georgia would completely bypass all of that. A micro .380 is very doable if Glock really wants to enter that market segment.
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Solus, my hands are most definitely not Yeti-sized. The Glock 21 fits me kind of nicely, though.
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I have heard that the process used to "Tennifer" the parts will never be done in the states due to EPA regs..Cyanide is said to be used in the process of treating the metal. Tennifer is not a finish, but a metallurgical treatment more in common with case hardening than blueing or parkerizing
Sorry, Doug...didn't mean to imply you had to be a Yeti to have a glock21 fit your hand...but they have been made for years with no thought to folks with smaller hands.
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I have heard that the process used to "Tennifer" the parts will never be done in the states due to EPA regs..Cyanide is said to be used in the process of treating the metal. Tennifer is not a finish, but a metallurgical treatment more in common with case hardening than blueing or parkerizing
"Tenifer" is a registered trade name for a process that is not owned/licensed by Glock. Other trade names for the same process using "greener" salt baths are Melonite, Tufftride, and Kolene. They are virtually identical when it comes to wear and corrosion resistance, hardness, and lubricity; close enough it doesn't really matter in the real world. At one time the rights to all of them were owned by the Durferrit division of the HEF Group, and licensed in the USA through HEF USA, but I think the rights have changed hands since then.
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Making them in Smyrna Georgia would completely bypass all of that. A micro .380 is very doable if Glock really wants to enter that market segment.
Beretta has been building the Tomcats in MD for a number of years and don't fall under the restriction.
I don't see Glock really spending a lot of effort on a 380 as it really isn't a popular cartridge here as we aren't required to use non-military ammo and 380 is actually more expensive than 9mm. The 380 glock is the same size/capacity as the 26/27 and which would you rather have in the same package, a 9mm/40SW or a 380?
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Beretta has been building the Tomcats in MD for a number of years and don't fall under the restriction.
I don't see Glock really spending a lot of effort on a 380 as it really isn't a popular cartridge here as we aren't required to use non-military ammo and 380 is actually more expensive than 9mm. The 380 glock is the same size/capacity as the 26/27 and which would you rather have in the same package, a 9mm/40SW or a 380?
The discussing of a .380 Glock is more along the lines of a micro .380 that is on par with being the same size as a LCP or Kel Tec P-3AT. Outside of that, yes, a .380 Glock would be pretty useless.
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What I heard ... can't remember where ... was that Glock was going to outsource the manufacture of their frames to China. Apparently, there is a plant that has some extra line time since Mattel dropped some plastic toy business with them last year.
Next, I heard that they were going to build some metal frame guns that handled and looked like P-08's. Kind of a modern retro gun but this plan was scraped because the guns ended up looking too good and Glock thought that producing a good looking gun might hurt their image.
:D
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::)
First off.... before I begin this Glock rant, in the interest of full disclosure (And so HAWKFISH doesn't get his panties in a bunch) let me say this:
I am a huge Glock supporter. I love my Glocks. Glock was the first handgun that I ever bought, and it is always the first handgun that I recommend. I LOVE GLOCKS!
Now, my question is When is Glock going to evolve?
Since the Glock was introduced in the early 1980s we have seen little new come out of the company that makes one of the most rugged and reliable handguns in the world. In 1982 they did something innovative by introducing the G17. It started an industry wide epidemic and launched a line of pistols that has become world renowned among law enforcement and military organizations. Since then we have seen little to nothing from the company.
Many companies have cloned the Glock design over the years and made improvements along the way , but Glock refuses to grow. Over the years, they have expanded selection to include almost every desirable handgun caliber. They have also made a few updates to their original frame design, but Glock as a company has really missed the boat. Although they have one of the most renowned names in the gun industry, they have refused to branch out and create anything other then their traditional striker fired polymer pistol.
Why they have done this is beyond me. They have some of the worlds greatest gun minds working for them. They have world class manufacturing facilities, and almost 30 years of gun manufacturing experience to fall back on. So where are the new models? Where is the Glock revolver? The Glock 1911? The Glock AR-15? The Glock tactical shotgun? The Glock bolt action rifle? The Glock rimfires? Where is the Glock micro auto loading pocket pistol?
It truly boggles my mind that Ruger would beat Glock to the punch and put out a polymer clone of the cult favorite Kel Tec P-3AT. I had been preaching this to my shooting buddies for years, all the while Glock drags its knuckles and does nothing. Who better to create a pocket .380 then Glock? I guess Ruger...... And they are going to sell a ton of those little pistols too!
Yes, we have seen some improvements to the Glock line of hand guns over the years. There have been three evolutions of the frame, but they have been rather insignificant and mostly common sense. There has been an addition of a tactical light rail, but that was mostly to convince people to buy their ridiculously over priced name brand tactical light. Oh and lets not forget the OD color option now available (Very high up there on the cool factor, yet purely cosmetic). But where are the significant improvements that everyone else in the industry realized were needed? Where are the ambidextrous slide stop and mag release? Where is the extended mag release button? Where is the interchangeable backstrap? Where is the double strike capabilities? Where is the match grade barrel? I could go on and on.....
Nearly 30 years ago Glock gave us one of the premier personal defense auto loaders and started an industry wide polymer revolution. Since then they have given us a knife, a shovel, and a flashlight. I don't know about you, but I feel a little disappointed. I am very brand loyal to Glock, and I would own an entire Glock arsenal if I could, but over the past three decades they have refused to evolve and give me the chance to go deer hunting with that Glock bolt action that I covet so much. The bottom line here is that Glock is leaving money on the table in both the civilian and military markets. Why do they not understand this? Well, its beyond me.... But I wish they would figure it out before Christmas!
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Hawk:
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=2105.msg22032#msg22032
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"When is Glock going to evolve?"
How much further are you looking for them to go? They've got the pistol thing down pretty good... Looking for a Tenifer coated robot that takes over the world?!?
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"When is Glock going to evolve?"
How much further are you looking for them to go? They've got the pistol thing down pretty good... Looking for a Tenifer coated robot that takes over the world?!?
Read the entire original post.... They are now finally trying to play catch up with the rumored upcoming release of Glocks with interchangeable backstraps. I just think that they are not reaching their full potential as a gun making company... They have been resting on their lorals, and seem to be following the Detroit auto makers business model. There are a lot of untapped market segments out there, and I sure wish Glock would jump into them.
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Maybe the offer of a nice big fat military contract would motivate them... Obama, are you listening???
While times are tight for most industries, I agree, Glock has no excuses for not doing their share of R&D to keep up with the one market that's BOOMING! (get it, "booming"? ;D)
I think they need to get into the carbine market!!!
But NOT with just another AR clone. ::) ::) ::)
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REPORTS FROM THE RANGE: Glock reps are over the country showing the prototypes of the coming Glocks. For the most part it has the RTF finish, a changeable backstrap and possibly ambi mag drop.
From the guys who saw it disappointment prevailed. One told me it looks as if Glock is trying to catch S&W's M&P.
That's all I know since I don't know anymore.
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Evolve into what? They make what to my mind is the best SD and service pistol in the world for the price. Why change? Its like asking BK why they don't make pizzas. However I agree that I would eagerly buy a carbine that used thier existing pistol mags. Still, beyond this, why mess wth perfection? They do one thing, and do it well. Why change to enter into other markets where they would be a Jonhny come lately?
FQ13
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Evolve into what? They make what to my mind is the best SD and service pistol in the world for the price. Why change? Its like asking BK why they don't make pizzas. However I agree that I would eagerly buy a carbine that used thier existing pistol mags. Still, beyond this, why mess wth perfection? They do one thing, and do it well. Why change to enter into other markets where they would be a Jonhny come lately?
FQ13
Wouldn't that be sweet! ;) Seem's like there'd be a market for them out there.
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Wouldn't that be sweet! ;) Seem's like there'd be a market for them out there.
Yep, just ask Kel-Tec
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure the not so perfect part of a Glock carbine would be the price tag! :(
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I think it is Olympic Arms that makes a carbine that accepts glock mags.
Yep,
http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=24&Itemid=37
The real price is much lower than the MSRP.
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Yep, just ask Kel-Tec
;D
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Tell you what, look up Wilhelm Bubits.
He was a former Glock designer but when he brought his ideas to them, they refused.
Glock does not want to change. Its their call, its their business.
So Wilhelm went off on his own and went to Steyr and built the M and the MxA1 pistols.
Now he works for Caracal and is producing his 3rd gen pistol.
Glock really missed out on this one. But instead gave opportunity to others.
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Glock today is like S&W 30 yrs ago....they dominate the market, so why change?.....
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Tell you what, look up Wilhelm Bubits.
He was a former Glock designer but when he brought his ideas to them, they refused.
Glock does not want to change. Its their call, its their business.
So Wilhelm went off on his own and went to Steyr and built the M and the MxA1 pistols.
Now he works for Caracal and is producing his 3rd gen pistol.
Glock really missed out on this one. But instead gave opportunity to others.
That's usually how it works. Winchester ignored JMB, and he ended up with FN in Belgium.
Truthfully, I originally thought that Glock's lack of innovation was down the list as to why I won't own a Glock. Then I realized it is the driving reason behind all of the other reasons I won't buy a Glock.