The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on December 11, 2012, 02:59:12 PM
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This goes back a few years, but it shows it is the new way of negotiating employed by the DFL:
Agree to our major demand, and then we will negotiate and work on compromise after this is passed.
Remember the health payment bill? "You need to pass it to find out what is in it." Today it is once you give us the tax increases we want we will sit down and negotiate the give and take on the rest.
It is time for a negotiating tool that my uncle taught me when dealing with those making unrealistic demands:
Walk back in the room;
Don't say a word;
Gather you papers, and put them in your brief case;
Turn and exit the room - If you want to give them the finger on your way out, that is OK.
Sorry folks, but it is time to stand up for what is right. Tax and spend has proven to be a failure, and I learned long ago that it is not just the so call rich they are after - they are after everyone with earned income! A local municipality just passed a "fee" for street lights. No longer will street lights be installed, maintained or operated at taxpayers' expense. Starting January 1, 2013 all property owners in the city will be paying a "fee" on their utility bills bases on road frontage for their street lights. The state university in this city will be paying $1,130 per month! Gimmie, Gimmie, Gimmie, is all these people know!
When I read this demand from the left today I went over the edge. The above story on street lights was first; then I received a survey concerning my recreational time and asking about where I shop and travel for fun - this survey is paid for by our State's Department of Commerce (I checked it out and it is legit); then I hear that we are seeing state bonding to help a large city redo their convention center; last night it was our own City Administrator talking about state grants to fund our communities utility maintenance and planned replacement; ...
This is the United States of American, and it is not about the big benevolent government giving us everything! Who was it that said "A government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take everything away."?
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You don't get it.
It is what the people have wanted for 80 years.
If they didn't they would not have reelected that communist FDR 3 times .
You don't like it ?
TS, this hasn't been a Republic, governed by law for 80 years.
This is a democracy where whatever the idiots can be convinced to scream for becomes the law.
They are getting what they deserve .
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Who was it that said "A government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take everything away."?
Gerald Ford...
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Gerald Ford...
Partially correct
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Partially correct
Some folks say it was Jefferson, some say Reagan, some say others.
I'm saying Gerry...a good Nebraska boy who made his way in the great state of Michigan, so there!
;D
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Actually M58 I wouldn't bitch about the street light fee. That's the kind of thing the government should be doing, and a fee for service type tax is fine. Its the wellfare redistribution stuff that drives me nuts.
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Actually M58 I wouldn't bitch about the street light fee. That's the kind of thing the government should be doing, and a fee for service type tax is fine. Its the wellfare redistribution stuff that drives me nuts.
It's the sort of thing we have local govt for in the first place .
As for Gerry Ford, well, Obama isn't the first President to have identity problems.
Ford , ( Born Leslie Lynch King, Jr.; July 14, 1913 – December 26, 2006)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford
was elevated to the Presidency as a pay off for his work on the Warren commision .
The fact he actually did OK in an unusual position was just our good luck.
You can tell he was a good president by how many psycho liberals tried to shoot him.
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Actually M58 I wouldn't bitch about the street light fee. That's the kind of thing the government should be doing, and a fee for service type tax is fine. Its the wellfare redistribution stuff that drives me nuts.
You ever get tired of being wrong? ? ? ? ?
Property taxes are supposed to provide for local and county city services, like police, fire, streets (including street lights), gubermint staff, etc. Charging extra for lights is like charging for building inspections and permits by people who are already being paid to be building inspectors and permit sellers.
M58 is right, this is only going to get worse as .gov refuses to reign in its tax and spend mindset, and simply goes back to the well (that would be you and me folks) to get more money to give it away to those what's ain'ts got it. The town I left in Illinois was doing this, finding all sorts of ways to tax more (frustrated by state level limits on property tax increases they couldn't get around) and give it to all manner of idiotic leftist ploys in the town.
Remember, .gov is NOT entitled to the money in your pocket. Taxes are supposed to be a common agreement of moneys to be spent for the common good. Any time .gov decides to take more whether you want to give or not, they put a gun to your head.
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So go underground.
Work under the table for cash or barter and don't give the money junkies anything to feed their habit.
Get your neighbors to cooperate .
Don't do business with, or even acknowledge, those who want to kiss gov ass.
Those like FQ who have higher priorities than the return of the Republic should also be ostracized under this plan.
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You ever get tired of being wrong? ? ? ? ?
Property taxes are supposed to provide for local and county city services, like police, fire, streets (including street lights), gubermint staff, etc. Charging extra for lights is like charging for building inspections and permits by people who are already being paid to be building inspectors and permit sellers.
M58 is right, this is only going to get worse as .gov refuses to reign in its tax and spend mindset, and simply goes back to the well (that would be you and me folks) to get more money to give it away to those what's ain'ts got it. The town I left in Illinois was doing this, finding all sorts of ways to tax more (frustrated by state level limits on property tax increases they couldn't get around) and give it to all manner of idiotic leftist ploys in the town.
Remember, .gov is NOT entitled to the money in your pocket. Taxes are supposed to be a common agreement of moneys to be spent for the common good. Any time .gov decides to take more whether you want to give or not, they put a gun to your head.
Exactly! Street lights are a part of the public safety infrastructure. The only reason for coming up with the fee is to sidestep taxes. They can leave the taxes at the same level and still increase revenue. Another new one making the rounds is a storm sewer utility fee. You will pay a set amount per square foot of lot to cover the cost of storm sewers. Another bogus revenue increase method.
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Some folks say it was Jefferson, some say Reagan, some say others.
I'm saying Gerry...a good Nebraska boy who made his way in the great state of Michigan, so there!
;D
Pres. Ford is the one it is attributed to, regardless of what Facebook posters will tell you, however the mistaken Thomas Jefferson credits go back to writings by an unkown author using this phrase during the forming of our nation.
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So go underground.
Work under the table for cash or barter and don't give the money junkies anything to feed their habit.
Get your neighbors to cooperate .
Don't do business with, or even acknowledge, those who want to kiss gov ass.
Those like FQ who have higher priorities than the return of the Republic should also be ostracized under this plan.
And that is where I think the economy is going, people conducting business without a business for barter, trade or cash. The conspiracy nut, Jesse Ventura, inside me thinks this is what will prompt mandatory implants for business transactions, aka "the Mark of the Beast".
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So, I found out from the fine print that I have been paying $30 per year for a "flush tax". That just can't be constitutional (pun intended). When we pointed that out to our state legislature, they did the logical thing. They proposed to raise the flush tax to $60 next year and to $90 for the following year(s). Now folks, you may say that is all logical to maintain city water and sewer systems. But I say BS. I am on a private well and septic system that I bought, maintain and use myself. The state counters that it is for environmental purposes, to sustain the watershed and Chesapeake Bay. The power to tax is the power to kill, somebody important said that once. Doesn't even pay to be constipated.
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Maybe I wasn't clear. I agree with Reagan that taxes should be visible and painful, and ideally aimed at those who use a service. So gas taxes and car registration for roads, Pittman Robertson taxes for WMA's and a "light bill" for street lights are ok with me. Your property tax is for infra-structure like schools and cops. Maybe they should fold the street lights into that, but it means raising property taxes. Not only is that a political third rail, it also effects home resale values at a time when home prices are stagnant at best. There's more going on here than you've posted. My Uncle was the city engineer here in West Palm. He always had to do this sort of dance as the prices for everything from gas to street lights to sewer pipes went up, and it was hard to find a politically acceptable way to pay for it. It wasn't like there was some government spending spreee, its just that if gas goes up $0.50 a gallon, or the price of pipe, or electricty goes up, someone has to pay.
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And that is where I think the economy is going, people conducting business without a business for barter, trade or cash. The conspiracy nut, Jesse Ventura, inside me thinks this is what will prompt mandatory implants for business transactions, aka "the Mark of the Beast".
It's not conspiracy theory material .
That's exactly what happened during the carter administration .
Oil embargoes, double digit inflation and unemployment with typical democrat high taxes driving investors to sit on their funds lead to large numbers of people going out side the system .
Barter and discounts for cash became common, as well as people dropping out of the system .
If all transactions were cash , living in the country either with out electricity or generating their own, wood heat, and using no public services , you became ,in effect, invisible .
So, I found out from the fine print that I have been paying $30 per year for a "flush tax". That just can't be constitutional (pun intended). When we pointed that out to our state legislature, they did the logical thing. They proposed to raise the flush tax to $60 next year and to $90 for the following year(s). Now folks, you may say that is all logical to maintain city water and sewer systems. But I say BS. I am on a private well and septic system that I bought, maintain and use myself. The state counters that it is for environmental purposes, to sustain the watershed and Chesapeake Bay. The power to tax is the power to kill, somebody important said that once. Doesn't even pay to be constipated.
You really don't understand what you are talking about.
First off levying taxes is one of the stipulated powers of congress, how ever that doesn't matter in your case since it is the city or state that is charging the tax and their powers of taxation come under the State Constitution, or city charter . In general they can tax you for breathing if they choose to.
The people who passed the tax would go away at the next election, but I bet the tax would not.
If you don't like the flush tax, don't pay it. They can't very well shut you off.
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Quaker, this is a property tax disguised as a user fee. It is based on property frontage. In my neighborhood I receive essentially no illumination from the street lights. I am pretty much midway between two lights, about 300 feet from either one. When the trees are full of leaves, I can't even see the one to the south.
I read not long ago of a community that had a street light fee to offset the cost of operation and transition to LED street lights. The nature of the LED lights was that was no peripheral light from them. On of the elected officials that pushed for the fee and LED transition basically said tough crap when citizens complained about the loss of illumination as the "city had no responsibility to illuminate their property."
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This goes back a few years, but it shows it is the new way of negotiating employed by the DFL:
M58
DFL would that be the Democratic Farmer Laborer party of Minnesota?
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In this discussion I am referring to the entire party, and it is brought up because yesterday they said that all must accept the tax increase and then we will talk about what else will or will not happen. Minnesota mirrors what happens in Washington D.C.. We have watched our Gov. Dayton and his supporters pull the exact thing that everyone else is seeing on the national level. A year and a half ago during a budget issue Dayton not only shut the government down, but he made it as painful as possible to punish his opposition, and it bet us at the polls this past month. Pres. BHO is threatening the same thing. There is no reason for him to attack Social Security, Medicare, or the Military over this, but he will, he will blame the GOP, and the sheeple will believe him (listen to Pelosi's quote from this week concerning throwing grandma under the bus to avoid touching "even one hair on the head of the rich.").