The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: GeorgeCook on April 27, 2013, 07:21:37 PM
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I don't know how it's going in the rest of the country but where I live (N.E. Florida), gun shops are starting to get ARs and other guns in stock. But the lack of ammo is starting to hurt sales.
I often think if the antis really want to kick us in the balls, all they have to do is get some legislation or regulations through that drives up the cost of ammo and reduces the supply.
So what's it like where you live?
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.45 ACP, 9mm, .380 ACP, .40 S&W, almost non-existent. 5.56/.223 extinct or just about, found some .308 today and bought 100 rounds. I'll get another 100 Monday. 2 and 3/4" #4 high brass is scarce as hens teeth.
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Mostly hunting ammo on the shelves here in ND, .243, .270, even some .30-06. Lots of shotty ammo. Almost nothing else in any centerfire caliber.
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Hey FBG, come up to NE Ohio. I won't say all ammo is plentiful and cheap but we have ammo and the price of 9mm is coming down! Seems .380 and .223 are still up a bit too much for my taste.
FWIW
Richard
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West Central Florida has almost no center fire OR .22 available in the shops I've been to. .223 is scarce, but available at $1/round. Guy at WallyWorld told me the stuff comes in in the evening and is brought to the floor early in the morning. Said by the time they start bringing it out, there are people standing in line to buy. They run out within the first half hour. Favorite independent gun shop has some fresh guns, but little or no ammo in common calibers. Odd. Very odd.
Crusader Rabbit
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Posted without comment
http://www.pressdot.net/report-obama-administration-enforcing-gun-control-through-ammunition-rationing-1137
REPORT: Obama Administration Enforcing Gun Control Through Ammunition Rationing
Washington, D.C. – After months of speculation of the intent of the Obama Administration and the Department of Homeland Defense, many officials believe they now have the reason behind the massive ammunition stockpiles: Rationing. The Obama Administration has struggle with legislation to crack down on the 2nd Amendment, but throughout the process had plan B in effect.
Over the past few years, the Department of Homeland Security has purchased over 1,000 more rounds per person than Army. At a recent hearing, Representative Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah stated, ”It is entirely … inexplicable why the Department of Homeland Security needs so much ammunition,” .
Chaffetz, who chairs one of the House oversight subcommittees holding the hearing Thursday, revealed that the department currently has more than 260 million rounds in stock. He said the department bought more than 103 million rounds in 2012 and used 116 million that same year — among roughly 70,000 agents.
Insiders who asked to remain anonymous were asked about the massive ammunition stockpiles and hinted that the massive stockpiles were achieving their end result, empty shelves. The Obama Administration knew heading into their second term the fight on the 2nd Amendment would be tough, so instead of fighting that battle, they decided to remove the main component. The insider stated, “There’s a good reason you can find shotgun ammo all day long, but not assault type rifles and handgun. Thing about it, Joe Biden recently was encouraging gun owners to buy shotguns over assault rifles, this was their intention all along.”
One major side effect the Obama Administration failed to factor in, local law enforcement agencies are running short of ammunition supplies. Another major side effect, although this one likely intentional, the price of ammunition has skyrocketed. Many police agencies across the Nation have resorted to smaller bus due to the much higher cost and nationwide budget cuts. It’s also been reported that many law enforcement agencies have had to use Airsoft guns for training to save ammunition.
Republicans on Captial Hill are introducing a bill that would force the DHS to make purchases that are more inline with historical numbers vs. the current levels, which are enough for an army. Frank Lucas, R-Okla. stated: “I was surprised to find out the DHS has the right to buy up to 750 million rounds of ammunition over the next five years, while it already has two years worth of ammo already,” Lucas said. “This is an issue that must be addressed, and I am pleased this legislation provides us the opportunity to do so.”
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Just ask jnevis, he always has a "reasonable" explanation for what the government is doing. I wonder why?
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Just ask jnevis, he always has a "reasonable" explanation for what the government is doing. I wonder why?
They pay him .
JNevis is a good guy, but just like so many other Govt employees, when it comes down to US and THEM he's a THEM because that's where his experience, paycheck, and benefits derive from.
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powerful stuff Tom, and honestly I've been thinking that all along but...
Why is it that all ammo is scarce? .22, .357, 38 Spec, .380, 10mm. I don't recall hearing about these being purchased by the .gov.
For what its worth 9mm is starting to circulate and .45 ACP at tremendous cost have begun to surface. The only thing that seems to be unaffected is .357 Sig.
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Ammo is very scarce here in Michigan. And rationed to 3 or 4 boxes if you do find it.
I went to shoot the first pistol league of the year today and the shooter population was VERY thin. I would guess only a quarter of the shooters as last year. We used to have 40 or 50 on league day last year.
We all agreed that it was due to the shortage of centerfire pistol ammo and the high cost -- if you can find it. All had horror stories to tell about getting enough ammo to practice and shoot the match.
The guy behind the gun counter at the BX/PX told me they got "some" in on Tuesday and it was gone in an hour.
They did have long guns but no ARs that I saw. I bought a .22 pistol, but they had no ammo or extra magazines for it. Bummer.
I'm heading to the NRA meeting in Houston. Hope we can find something more out there.
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We, gun owners, are causing this ammo shortage. People hoarding ammo and components in fear of potential laws that may or may not get passed or even proposed.
Fears that may be well founded but if everyone would just stop buying what they don't shoot and allow the supply chain to fill back up would be fine.
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Some of the bigger retailer , like my local Adventure Outdoors have .223/5.56 ammo. They are e en starting to get in .22lr.
Have you checked with Shoot Straight?
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Just ask jnevis, he always has a "reasonable" explanation for what the government is doing. I wonder why?
I'll be more than happy to answer that... Simply put, they are required to by law.
That amount is not what DHS says they need to have, it's what Congress says they have to have on hand. Now for SHOW, they want to amend the requirement so they can look good at "Stopping DHS's excess" before an election. Works for both sides of the aisle.
How much ammo do YOU have stockpiled? Probably more than a years worth, I did until recently. Do they need two years, probably depends on how its allocated. Unlike civilian ammo though, by regulation they are required to surplus any ammo that is more than five years old. Why, not really sure, we usually tried to shoot it and not have any "extra." A unit, whether military or otherwise, is required to have a certain allocation on hand at all times, plus what they are required for training and duty use. Any extra in the training allocation must be used before the end of the year, while the duty ammo becomes training, and the "ready" allocation becomes training. It's more bean counting than anything else. This pot to this pot, and so on. The bulk of the stocks are not kept at individual units/locations. The Navy for example houses all small arms ammo in Crane IN, and sends a quarterly shipment to a base that in turn divides it to the units it supports.
I also work on gov't projects, including a LOT of procurement. The other reason I know how this works is that while on Active duty I assisted with weapon and ammunition management. Now I'm on the budget/contracting side so I see how the process works and the hundreds of pages of contracting law that goes into how any organization, military or civilian, is required to do business with the Feds.
Even before BHO became President, there was always more shotgun than anything else especially here where I'm at, or any of the places I shoot at. The only 223 I could find reliably was the Russian stuff. 9 wasn't any easier either. Part of it may be location, I was in the FL panhandle. SoCal and here before.
As far as the article...It has been a trend in LE training over the last couple years to start doing more force-on-force and airsoft is MUCH cheaper and easier to maintain than Simunition. It has nothing to do with the cost of other training. Having more ammo than the Army is a bit misleading too. If you included ALL of the ammo the Army ordered and used, not training allocations I'd bet the number would be much closer. Also DHS has to provide ammo to all of the classes it offers to outside agencies which wouldn't be included in the 70K personnel llisted, although the ammo is still part of DHS's allocation, again changing the ratio.
BTW Tom- I'm NOT a Govt employee. My paycheck and bennies come from the private sector.
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At my local sporting goods store the ammo shelves are bare except for bird shot/target shotgun ammo. In fact cases of it are often on sale cheaper than before the panic!
I am still trying to figure this one out. People are snapping up all the rimfire, mainstream center-fire, and any pistol caliber they can but aren't touching the shotgun ammo, besides buckshot. So far the only thing I can come up with is that the ammo shortage MUST be a government conspiracy since the VP all wants us buying shotguns. ;D
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Here in Central Texas you'll be hard pressed to find any kind of AR/AK or pistol ammo (especially JHP). Academy only sells one box per customer when/if ammo comes in, and Wal-Mart is empty. Cabelas in Buda (South of Austin), barely has ammo. But they have tons of bare shelves (so weird). Mostly they have shotguns shells, some overpriced Mosin ammo and oddball calibers (45LC, etc).
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I really don't understand all this panic buying. The mags and the guns I can kind of understand( a little bit, but not alot), but things like 22 ammo. I just don't get.
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Walley World is getting more ammo in by the week so just hold on a little longer and you will have ammo
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Here's another thought .
Guns are selling like never before, millions since Obama took office .
Even at 1 or 2 boxes per that is a butt load of ammo .
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Starting to see PMC .223 at rediculus prices. $13 for 20.
I happened to stop at Brown Bear.. He was unloading cases of 9mm PMC and charging $19.99 per box of 50. Despite lots on the shelf he would not sell it except for range use at his store. I will remember this treatment for a long time.
My friends bought 525 round boxes for $21 up north. They were limited to one box each, but they found .22rf on shelves.
I have not shopped for anything at Walmart.
What is going on elsewhere?
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Went to Jay's in Clare on Saturday. Shelves were looking better, still sparse but better than empty. Prices were good.