The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Ron J on July 07, 2008, 12:33:34 PM
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I had not given the internal lock (IL) on Smith & Wesson revolvers much thought ... until I heard where people had problems with their S&W revolvers locking up on them while they were firing. At the range throwing wad-cutters at paper, maybe not a big deal. However, in a self defense situation having a gun lock-up would really elevate the pucker factor.
Here's the question for you folks with S&W revolvers that have the internal lock. Has your S&W revolver with the IL ever locked up on you?
Please note that since this poll is pertains to the IL, only lock ups due to the IL should be voted on. Lastly, only want to count votes for guns that are “shooters” and not “safe queens”. To this, your S&W wheel-gun has to have had at least 200 rounds run through it before voting.
Thanks!
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I have three with locks. One has locked up on me.
I have never intentionally locked them except when the one locked. It was the first time I shot it, and on the third shot it locked. I think the lock may have been partially on to start with and vibrated on. I unlocked it, messed with it, unlocked it, and it has never bothered again. After that I also took the other two and locked and unlocked them. Never a problem, and I never touch the locks anymore (the keys are back in the S&W boxes on the shelf away from the guns.
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Did not read the criteria for voting. I have a J Frame with IL but have not fired over 200 thru it. It is one of normal home defense or conceal during certain activities, not a safe queen. So far so good. Fired some 158 reloaded ammo and HydroShoks thru it with no problem.
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M58 - Thanks for the explanation on your lock up. That is a big help.
DesertMarine - I just made up a number to show it was a gun folks were using. 158 rounds is close enough!
Thanks!
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A freind of mine has one that would not unlock out of the boxThe dealer showed it to the S&W sales Rep. come to find out during assembly a peice of wood chipped off the inside of the grip and jammed the lock,no trouble since but it is mostly a safe queen.
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I have a 642 with the IL and have been problem free so far. I don't know how many rounds I've fired in it, but it most definitely is not a safe queen. I never really considered this as a possibilty before, but the pucker factor, as you mentioned earlier would definitely increase if it were to fail to go BOOM. The phrase "...greased bb with a sledge" comes to mind! :o
Swoop
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I've heard way too many close calls with Smith's ILS, go ahead and call me paranoid but that design is faulty and I hope to God it doesn't kill someone one day. Smith has a time bomb on their hands.
But damn they've got some cool looking guns.
*On a side note, does anyone else notice that when you press the "preview" button the post preview box is much darker than it used to be? When did that start?
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MB has a write up on that problem in one of the threads here. He had a lock up (repeatedly as I remember).
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MB has a write up on that problem in one of the threads here. He had a lock up (repeatedly as I remember).
Yes. If I recall, Mr. Bane had his S&W Mountain Gun lock up. I think Mas Ayoob has also written about S&W’s locking up as well. When two of the industry’s best writers and authorities on weapons have issues, it can mean bad PR for the folks at S&W … OR an opportunity to make something right.
To this, what S&W could do is simply say that out of “X” revolvers produced, we documented where “X” locked up for various reasons. Knowing that a failure percent of even .002% is unacceptable, we changed the spring in the locking mechanism so you can have “to hell and back” ( ;D ) reliability when you pick up your S&W revolver. Of course the slippery slope of margin returns could smack them down when people want the “new spring” in their older IL guns.
Which makes sense when I read a forum posting somewhere where someone claimed that S&W “quietly” made a change to a spring on the IL. Wish I could validate this. It would make buying a S&W revolver much easier.
I could live with the lock. But I may not live if it locks unexpectedly. One needs to have confidence in their higher-end firearms. Like what Neon said, we’re not buying “time bombs”.
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I took my 637 with IL apart and looked at the lock. Feels like a very light spring as it comes from the factory. I am not an engineer so I cannot validate that. It would be very simple to fix but S&W and the politically correct would say, can't do that, even though it might save your life. It is simply a way to take the lock off. I am going to go shoot mine and see what happens with the lock as it came from factory. Then I'll decide what to do.
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I just scored a Model 17-3 in near mint condition for a gun I never use.... ;D ;D ;D
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My 642 that I have had for several years has been flawless. A great carry gun. I would prefer it without the lock though, one less thing that can go wrong
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Not a S&W, but I've installed the old style safeties on several remington shotguns, because the new J lock with a key would engage while firing.
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Somebody on another forum (can't even remember where right now) was saying that S&W was going to make some 642s without the IL. Anybody else heard of this? Probably just wishful thinking!
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Yeah they're going to release short runs of 642 without the IL (hell of a time to be in Japan >:() and also another one but I can't think of the model number.
I want a 442 myself.
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Went to the range with my 637 w/IL and shot 50 rounds as fast as I could load and pull the trigger. 10 rounds were 158 gr factory ammo and the rest 158 gr semi-wadcutters. No problems.
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I think the IL are alot like the mag disconnects... people hate them,. So they spread as much bad press about them as they can. I have only heard a handful of times where they have failed. Durring my time working for a FFL we sold thousands apon thousands of smiths with locks... not a single one ever came back do to lock failure... Infact I can only recall 1 smith revo that came back for warrenty work, and that was a sight insert that came out. now ruger on the other hand, sold about the same as smith, but we got one back atleast once a month.
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What were the problems with the Rugers? …and which guns?
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Pretty much every thing you could think of... generally it was small stuff.
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I think the IL are alot like the mag disconnects... people hate them,. So they spread as much bad press about them as they can. I have only heard a handful of times where they have failed. Durring my time working for a FFL we sold thousands apon thousands of smiths with locks... not a single one ever came back do to lock failure... Infact I can only recall 1 smith revo that came back for warrenty work, and that was a sight insert that came out. now ruger on the other hand, sold about the same as smith, but we got one back atleast once a month.
I agree. But not to sound like I am running for the US Senate, it only takes one lock-up to cause doubt and doubt is not the best quality in a carry gun. When one considers the odds of a gun locking with the odds of actually ever using it for self defense, the S&W products are a safe "bet". Again, the problem with that statement is "bet". True, any gun can be a victim of "Murphy" (my S&W 629DX comes to mind) but the S&W IL leaves the door open to more worries.
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That could be said of any gun or any safety.