The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Teresa Heilevang on July 23, 2008, 07:05:02 PM
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A friend of mine received this from his friend.
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He loaded a .308 into a 25.06 by accident while hunting in Namibia....
He had already got one of his tags filled the day before..(last pic)
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Soft food diet for a while, and damned lucky at that! :o
Mac.
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It only takes one time for it to happen. I hope all the precautions I take will keep me and others around me out of harms way.
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OUCH!, Glad he didn't get blinded, or injured more than the pic showed, although he looks really pissed.
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Yikes! Goes to show you can't be to careful.
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So where's the gun? All I saw was some wood splinters and a chunk of metal.
Oh, that was the gun?
Damn!!
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Its pronounced "Dumas"
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The "Great White Hunter" needs to separate his ammo.
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Very interesting if you look at the pictures, It was the action, not the barrel or bolt that let go, and in spectacular fashion, Glad He's alright. Scope split in half!!! If the bolt had not held, this man would be in a world of hurt. I have a good friend who bought a high end semi/custom rifle in a proprietary cartridge (( big stuff )) that let go, after much mongering and my friend losing some sight in one eye, it was settled for an undisclosed amount ;) You would be surprised at the manufacturer.
These kinds of things happen, I had a young man bring me a Savage model 99 to sight in for him, you learn quick on the gunsmith bench at a public shooting range to match the ammo to the gun. He laid down a .308 win, rifle and gave me a box of .300 savage to sight it in with. I asked him if the rifle had been rechambered, he said no, I then told him he had the wrong ammo for the rifle, he then explained that this was a Savage rifle and this was the correct ammo, and he had killed deer with it twice before. We discussed it for a minute and he was not budging, I said hang on a minute, and went into the stock room and brought out a box of .308, loaded 5 rounds in the rifle and cycled the action and they all chambered and ejected. I then showed him the difference in the 2 cartridges, mostly length, he was getting a little glow in the cranium, when I asked him if he had any of the rounds he had already shot, he said yes, and I said bring me one, of course the .300 Savage fired in a .308 win chamber was damn near a straight wall case. I sighted his rifle with the correct ammo, and low and behold, had a 3 shot clover leaf, under 5/8", I said do you want to sell this rifle and he just said, " give me that " Live and learn.
Lesson, if you bring more than one caliber that will somewhat interchange, be very careful. use paint on the case heads if you need to, something to catch your eye, when loading. A bloody face beats the loss of an eye or worse everytime.
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what kind of rifle was that?
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:'( :'( :'(
That look on his face says it all >:( >:(
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A friend of mine received this from his friend.
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He loaded a .308 into a 25.06 by accident while hunting in Namibia....
He had already got one of his tags filled the day before..(last pic)
He loaded a .308 or .30-06 instead of a 25.06? Just curious.
Thanks.
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I had something like that happen to me only with a NEW 1911 after 20 rounds the slide came apart just behind the ejection port and the rear half hit me in the mouth can you say OUCH, I learned two lessons that day, never buy cheap guns and buy AMERICAN!
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He loaded a .308 or .30-06 instead of a 25.06? Just curious.
Thanks.
a 30-06 would not chamber in a 25-06 unles there was something really wrong with the chamber.
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Just talked to the kids at firearm safety about this danger and only carrying the ammo for the gun in hand. Thanks for the pictures, the will be used next Monday in class.
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Here are the other 3 pictures if you need or want them.
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Mauser action, and WOW look at the case, blown out head and nearly straightwalled. Man was he lucky.
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a 30-06 would not chamber in a 25-06 unles there was something really wrong with the chamber.
By measurement I can not make either a .308 or 30-06 fit in a 25-06 chamber.
The overall length on some match grade Black Hills 175 grain Boattail Hollowpoint .308 I have (chosen for it's presumed precision) is right at 2 13/16 inches. If the loading manual case size is correct a 25-06 case is just shy of 2 8/16 inches ( 2 31/64"). If even a small projectile (87 grains)is attached it would almost certainly consume another 8/16 of chamber. Which means the .308 would be at least 4/16 inch too short for the firing pin to reach it.
It gets even worse if you assume shoulder or case mouth or ogive "pinch".
With a 30-06 the case is at least more or less the right size, but you still have to cram the projectile into the case when you close the bolt ( a red flag if ever there was one)
Seems to me a small miracle the gun fired at all, let alone exploded.
Just saying.
I will closely examine the next 25-06 I run across in my travels. Maybe some reloaders or gunsmiths can explain it to me.
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By measurement I can not make either a .308 or 30-06 fit in a 25-06 chamber.
The overall length on some match grade Black Hills 175 grain Boattail Hollowpoint .308 I have (chosen for it's presumed precision) is right at 2 13/16 inches. If the loading manual case size is correct a 25-06 case is just shy of 2 8/16 inches ( 2 31/64"). If even a small projectile (87 grains)is attached it would almost certainly consume another 8/16 of chamber. Which means the .308 would be at least 4/16 inch too short for the firing pin to reach it.
It gets even worse if you assume shoulder or case mouth or ogive "pinch".
With a 30-06 the case is at least more or less the right size, but you still have to cram the projectile into the case when you close the bolt ( a red flag if ever there was one)
Seems to me a small miracle the gun fired at all, let alone exploded.
Just saying.
I will closely examine the next 25-06 I run across in my travels. Maybe some reloaders or gunsmiths can explain it to me.
Here's my theory...the .308 is shorter, but the bullet is a larger diameter (.308 vs .257). I believe a .308 will chamber, but the bullet will not enter the barrel. Depending on bullet ogive...this will leave the head in the proper place to for the firing pin to reach it. This creates the worst case scenario as the bullet ain't going down the pipe and all that energy has no place to go except through the action.
(http://www.levergun.com/articles/images/5.jpg)
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Sounds and looks plausible. I have a .308 but not a 25-06 (wish I did!).
Hope some one here has both and can attempt to chamber the .308.
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Been trying to get a hold of Creigh..( my friend) so he can get a hold of his friend..to ask about some more details.
but have had no luck yet..
Creigh works long long hours in Canada right now, so sometimes I go weeks without hearing from him.
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Here's my theory...the .308 is shorter, but the bullet is a larger diameter (.308 vs .257). I believe a .308 will chamber, but the bullet will not enter the barrel. Depending on bullet ogive...this will leave the head in the proper place to for the firing pin to reach it. This creates the worst case scenario as the bullet ain't going down the pipe and all that energy has no place to go except through the action.
(http://www.levergun.com/articles/images/5.jpg)
Understood and agree as to the theory.
But look at your picture. (An excellent one I might add)
The case mouth of the .308 is somewhere in the middle of the shoulder of the 25-06. Is it close enough to seat? This enquiring mind wants to know.
I had just never heard of the 308/25-06 on the "Dangerous Cartridge Combination List". There is a list somewhere, I think.
Which brings me to another question. What the heck is this guy doing running around Africa with a varmint cartridge? I thought the PH
Outfitters discouraged such things. Even for a second gun.
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I had just never heard of the 308/25-06 on the "Dangerous Cartridge Combination List". There is a list somewhere, I think.
Great Jumping Jehosaphat!
Not only is it "on the list" but the list is far, far, larger than I ever thought possible. Yikes!
http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm (http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm)
Guess that answers that question.
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And the answer is, the Mauser action has a VERY, large extractor. Fully 1/4 of the rim diameter, even in a loose fit such as the .308 in a 25/06 chamber, the extractor will hold the case head close enough for the firing pin to hit with sufficient force to detonate the primer. The projectile has sufficient resistance that every thing behind it is the weakest link. I will admit that this is the worst one I've seen to date.
Anyone shot a 9mm in a .40 caliber Glock, it will go bang, and rattle down the barrel, and not eject from the loss of power to cycle the slide, cases look awful funny too, but they go bang because of the extractor, keeps the smaller case against the breech, sufficient for combustion.
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Here's my theory...the .308 is shorter, but the bullet is a larger diameter (.308 vs .257). I believe a .308 will chamber, but the bullet will not enter the barrel. Depending on bullet ogive...this will leave the head in the proper place to for the firing pin to reach it. This creates the worst case scenario as the bullet ain't going down the pipe and all that energy has no place to go except through the action.
(http://www.levergun.com/articles/images/5.jpg)
I agree with CZshooter.
Most dimensions between the .308 (shorter) and 30-06/25-06 (longer) case are the same, except for length, 0.479" difference. Since the ogive of a bullet will be somewhat away from the leade in the barrel, there is enough room to allow a .308 cartridge to be loaded in 25-06. Say your loaded .308 measures 2.810" and 25-06 measures 3.250" and the ogive is 0.010" from leade, that gives the .308, 0.460" room to fit without interference. Each rifle is different as to chamber length, so I used a shorter chamber. Most times rifles have longer chambers. Thus when the .308" bullet hits the 0.257" diameter bore, catastrophic failure.
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And the answer is, the Mauser action has a VERY, large extractor. Fully 1/4 of the rim diameter, even in a loose fit such as the .308 in a 25/06 chamber, the extractor will hold the case head close enough for the firing pin to hit with sufficient force to detonate the primer. The projectile has sufficient resistance that every thing behind it is the weakest link. I will admit that this is the worst one I've seen to date.
Anyone shot a 9mm in a .40 caliber Glock, it will go bang, and rattle down the barrel, and not eject from the loss of power to cycle the slide, cases look awful funny too, but they go bang because of the extractor, keeps the smaller case against the breech, sufficient for combustion.
So the extractor is the villain. Some thing to think about.
Meanwhile, looks like "THE LIST" will need to be updated. .40 caliber is not on it.
Wonder if there are any other combinations of chamber and cartridge to keep in mind?
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First things 1st. This guy is Lucky. 2nd., He should have know better than mixing Munitions.
The Mauser he used has a "Control Round Feeding". As it picks up the cartridge from the magazine- it's grabs it and holds it until you eject it. A 26-06 & .308 both use a .473 rim. Dia. The Mauser he is using is a "Small Ring " Mauser Action!
That is a NO-NO!! Maximum chamber pressures for a "Small Ring" Mauser is about 40,000 cup.
The 25-06 Cartidge generates about 65,000 cup !!
The .308 generates about the same. That is a Major mess just waiting to happen.
SOG along with a few others we're selling Small Ring Mauser rifles years back that were chambered in .308! Dangerous Mix!
As a graduate of Gunsmithing School, I have seen and heard from others, what happens when you mix bad knowledge with good intentions. The person the built that rifle is Primarily at fault as the Shooter usually doesn't know better! The Shooter is Stupid for mixing munitions or for not observing what he was doing. They failed to mention if it was a Loaner Rifle or his own. I would like to know where he was at when it happened, as I see he had a Suppressor attached too.
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As a Dealer of NFA firearms here in Ohio, I didn't know Namibia allowed Suppressors !
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Sounds and looks plausible. I have a .308 but not a 25-06 (wish I did!).
Hope some one here has both and can attempt to chamber the .308.
But don't shoot it though.
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Sounds and looks plausible. I have a .308 but not a 25-06 (wish I did!).
Hope some one here has both and can attempt to chamber the .308.
Use a snap cap for sure!
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=996222 (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=996222)
(Shameless Micheal Bane Sponsor Plug)
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Anyone who says the extractor held the round in place is correct. That's the nature of the world famous controlled-round feed system. From there, I think the bullet flew ahead and plugged the bore, turning the chamber into a pipe bomb. He's lucky the bolt didn't fly through his head.
I don't know if it's on the unsafe list, but .44 magnum ammo will fit in a .45 colt chamber. The rim thickness and diameter are the same (or within 2/1000 of an inch). I think either of my .45/.410 bore Contender barrels would shoot a .44 okay, but I'm not stupid enough to try it. I'll just put the .44 Magnum barrel on and use the right ammo. I also heard that combination will blow up a SAA.
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Anyone who says the extractor held the round in place is correct. That's the nature of the world famous controlled-round feed system. From there, I think the bullet flew ahead and plugged the bore, turning the chamber into a pipe bomb. He's lucky the bolt didn't fly through his head.
I don't know if it's on the unsafe list, but .44 magnum ammo will fit in a .45 colt chamber. The rim thickness and diameter are the same (or within 2/1000 of an inch). I think either of my .45/.410 bore Contender barrels would shoot a .44 okay, but I'm not stupid enough to try it. I'll just put the .44 Magnum barrel on and use the right ammo. I also heard that combination will blow up a SAA.
I don't see why it would be dangerous I checked my reloading manual and the 44 mag bullet is about .020 smaller than the 45 Colt it would have plenty of room in the barrel, in fact it isn't large enough to engage the rifling.
By the way, when were your 45/410 contender barrels made, I may have worked on them, although I tried to grab the Encore barrels and leave the Contenders for first shift.
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I don't see why it would be dangerous I checked my reloading manual and the 44 mag bullet is about .020 smaller than the 45 Colt it would have plenty of room in the barrel, in fact it isn't large enough to engage the rifling.
By the way, when were your 45/410 contender barrels made, I may have worked on them, although I tried to grab the Encore barrels and leave the Contenders for first shift.
The 14" was made before the Encore was even invented. I can't remember how long I've had the 10" but not as long.
It can't be good to have a .42 caliber bullet rattling down a .45 caliber barrel. I think it would somewhat work, but it wouldn't be full power, and the bullet would keyhole. I think it would cause gas erosion if anyone did it much. I would be more concerned with the case not sealing the gases in and getting a faceful of hot gas and powder. It's in the unsafe list too. I checked it.
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The 14" was made before the Encore was even invented. I can't remember how long I've had the 10" but not as long.
It can't be good to have a .42 caliber bullet rattling down a .45 caliber barrel. I think it would somewhat work, but it wouldn't be full power, and the bullet would keyhole. I think it would cause gas erosion if anyone did it much. I would be more concerned with the case not sealing the gases in and getting a faceful of hot gas and powder. It's in the unsafe list too. I checked it.
No good, but not dangerous. With that much free space gases will vent out the barrel not out the breech because they will follow the path of least resistance which would be around and past the under size bullet.
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No good, but not dangerous. With that much free space gases will vent out the barrel not out the breech because they will follow the path of least resistance which would be around and past the under size bullet.
That sounds completely logical, and I think you're right. Give it try and tell me what happens. ;D
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That sounds completely logical, and I think you're right. Give it try and tell me what happens. ;D
Sure, give me $450 to buy a Contender and I'll let you know how it works out ;D