The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: nosimij on March 02, 2015, 12:01:51 PM
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I am about to start an AR15 lower build. I have a Rock River lower and parts kit (basic). My wife shoots long arms left handed so I have decided to go to an ambi safety. I see $19.99 from CDNN and a local shop has one for $59.95. Midway carries a number of varieties that come in in the middle of the price range.
I understand that these are machined cams, but what do you get for 3X pricing?
Of those improvements, assuming all function, what is actually worth extra cash? I can say that I would be willing to pay for US made over an import.
Is the assumption that they all work reasonable?
It is hard to tell in the on line photos, but I assume that the really only one assembly method.
I assume the conversation over the different shapes is like 9mm or 40cal it is all personal preference.
I am trying not to break the bank but want good and safe rifle.
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Unless you want things like precision triggers it's just more expensive, not necessarily any better.
Here's a good thread.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=29986.0
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Over the years I have taken commodity AR's and built them to REALLY nice AR's. That's one of the great things about them. Just make sure that you get the lower that you want. After that it's like legos. Upgrade this and that over time, and you end op with a super nice rifle.
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I have the right hand version of this and really like it. Safety selector lever, Star, Ambi $25.00 from Rock River Arms. Here's the one I have.
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I have ambi safeties on both my primary and backup... US made from reputable company...make sure you cock the hammer to install... you need to remove the grip, detent and spring
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I'm guessing, but I'd think most AR parts are made in US. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure most receivers are (DPMS, Spikes, Anderson, etc.) and I just can't see the price point being high enough, or the manufacturing complicated enough to warrant the other parts being off-shore. Somebody correct me.
It's always a decision about how much to pay. Availability, quality, features. Is a Spike's lower worth 50% more than an Anderson? Then of course we're only talking $30. Hardly going to break the bank. But it adds up on a build. What you thought was going to start as a $500 build ends up costing $700.
My biggest pet peeve is with comps/brakes. They range from $7 to almost $200. Put the word "competition" and it doubles in price. I finally found a Levang style for $26. It's a knock off, not a DPMS made one. But then DPMS is backordered and this knock off is arriving Friday.
Then again since you are building it yourself, you can always change out, upgrade, the parts that you find unsatisfactory later.
One part I suggest is over sized, easy pull, takedown pins. Of course if you play the percentage game that just increased the lower parts kit by 28%. But they are so nice. ;)
Lets us know how the build progresses. What it costs. Which parts you decided. How you like them. And of course... pictures.
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With the exception of barrels and high end triggers, I have yet to hear a convincing argument about how some AR-15 parts are "better" than others. It always ends up in the same place. Mil-Spec vs. non Mil-Spec, with each side beating their chest as to why one is supposedly "better".
Most all major AR-15 parts, (lower and upper forgings, complete bolt carrier groups, standard trigger components, etc.), are all made by just a handful of manufacturers who supply the entire industry. Some, like Daniel Defense, claim to manufacturer everything in house. That may or may not be true. None of us have any real way of knowing, unless you actually saw this with your own eyes in an in house tour. And even if it were true, it is no guarantee their quality is better than anyone else's. Companies like Continental Machine Tool supply many, if not most, of the AR-15 world with a variety of components they sell in bulk to all the different manufacturers. The exception of course, are specialty components like Nickel Boron treated Bolt Carrier Groups, ambidextrous safeties, rail forends, (both Delta Ring and free float), etc.
Again some will argue this, or else argue they provide different levels of quality to different manufacturers. All of it is based on hearsay without a shred of actual proof. CMT is bound by contract not to reveal who they manufacture for. So no one has any way of knowing. I've seen CMT bolts in Colt, as well as Stag Arms weapons. Common sense dictates they are the same quality. Why would they be different? It costs more money to manufacture at different levels of quality, because you are complicating the process. Both physically, and with more paper work and people in order to manage the different materials, processes, and certifications.
I have AR-15's from 6 different manufacturers that run the gamut in price........... and arguably quality. And I have never broken a component in any of them in tens of thousands of rounds, in well over a decade of shooting. That said, I don't "torture test" my rifles, or abuse them. I keep them clean and well lubricated at all times. Am I "lucky"? You tell me. In any event, 100% reliability in half a dozen different brands of weapons tells me if there is in fact a difference in quality of these weapons, it is meaningless to me from an operational standpoint. With 100% reliability in all of them, is it really going to matter which one I grab if I hear "bump" in the middle of the night?
I think there is way too much concern over all of this. None of which can be proven either way. When you look at the millions of AR-15 rifles out there, along with the millions more that are sold every year. And take into account all of the aftermarket parts sold, I highly doubt there is much, if any measurable difference in overall quality in the service lifetime of said part. If there is, I haven't seen it in well over a decade of shooting AR-15 rifles. As always YMMV.
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Bill said pretty much on point.
I have a DPMS that I work on off and on, as far as upgrades go, and as money permits. The best prices for the items I have bought came through Amazon.
One particular comparison I can speak on is the aluminum fore-end. I shopped around and found the aluminum quad rails were advertised by most "big name" makers for $75 and up. I even found a BLACKHAWK! brand version at (of all places) walmart for $79. I bought an identical version from Amazon for $26, and it came with rubber rail covers an I bundled it with other things and got free shipping. Fit and finish of the item was above and beyond what one would expect for the price.
I'm one of those guys who takes the time to read reviews on items, especially on Amazon. You have to remember to take them with a grain of salt and weigh it with common sense, but when an item has something like 500 reviews and 90% of them are four and five stars, you can generally bet it is a solid item. For example, back in December I was looking at muzzle brakes and comps. Like Alf said, they start way low and go up from there. One in particular was a brake with a very high rating with a pretty good-sized group of total reviews. It only cost $17.....so I ordered one just for giggles. The reviews were spot-on..... they all said it worked way better than a cheap part should and that it removed practically all muzzle rise, but was loud enough to wake the dead..... all true. I still want a Levang style that throws the blast more forward...but until then the $17 part will do.... I'll just make sure I have hearing protection unless my life absolutely depends on it (cause this thing is deafening!).
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Ok, MB got to rant on the podcast yesterday, now it's my turn. I understand the nicety of a compensator, or muzzle brake, but MY GOD MAN! When you have to shoot next to a guy who has one on his rifle for 3 days straight!!!! Even with plugs and muffs my ears got pounded! so PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE be considerate. If you are going to a class, spare the guy next to you, and take off the damn comp!!!!
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The artillery style comps from JP Enterprises look like they would be really bad to be next to. I don't shoot much and thankfully haven't had the displeasure of being next to anything especially loud.
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I'm one of those guys who takes the time to read reviews on items,
Real men not only don't need reviews, they don't even need the instructions on the first couple tries !
Of course by then the trash has been picked up and you have to come on here and casually ask how it goes together. ;D
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Real men not only don't need reviews, they don't even need the instructions on the first couple tries !
Of course by then the trash has been picked up and you have to come on here and casually ask how it goes together. ;D
Hence why we have so many boards.
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Real men not only don't need reviews, they don't even need the instructions on the first couple tries !
Of course by then the trash has been picked up and you have to come on here and casually ask how it goes together. ;D
Well at least I didn't read the instructions with the brake.......
(it didn't come with any)
;D
But once I figgered out which end had threads I'uz in bidness. ;)
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Ok, MB got to rant on the podcast yesterday, now it's my turn. I understand the nicety of a compensator, or muzzle brake, but MY GOD MAN! When you have to shoot next to a guy who has one on his rifle for 3 days straight!!!! Even with plugs and muffs my ears got pounded! so PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE be considerate. If you are going to a class, spare the guy next to you, and take off the damn comp!!!!
+1
I was shooting an A-Bolt in .308 under a covered range once and the concussion caused by the BOSS brake actually rattled the 8' fluorescent bulbs out of one of the overhead light fixtures.
The brake for my AR makes the 5.56 sound like a .308.
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I was shooting an A-Bolt in .308 under a covered range once and the concussion caused by the BOSS brake actually rattled the 8' fluorescent bulbs out of one of the overhead light fixtures. The brake for my AR makes the 5.56 sound like a .308.
You should be there when this goes off! :o
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/BushmasterBA-50.jpg) (http://s812.photobucket.com/user/billt460/media/BushmasterBA-50.jpg.html)
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Yeah... it is quite the ruckus, indeed.
I was over at my friend's range one day and a guy had a Barrett Mod 99 single shot. We touched off a few rounds and it made quite a fuss.
It's a toss-up on my fun-meter between shooting the Barrett and shooting an MP-5 full auto. One is brute strength and the other is full speed ahead..... I guess the Ma Deuce would be the best of both worlds. :D
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Yes, it is. ;D
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As the OP on this thread I thought that some might like to hear the out come of my build.
I completed my Lower build with very little issue. The only problem I had was that the hammer was not turning freely. I deburred the pin hole that improve the situation only slightly. I ended up having to sand the hammer pin and the slots the spring ride in. The lower parts kit was sold to me as a rock river, but there was nothing in it identifying it as a rock river product.
I did fall for the BHO panic and paid more than I should have getting a completed Bushmaster upper with Carry handle and A2 style front sight. It included a no frills round hand guard and no rail attachment points.
As far as upgrades go that I was asking about. I went with no name low end versions. I found an AMBI safety, single point sling mount, and charging handle latch. All of them were less than $60USD extra. I am glad I did all three upgrades.
I am sticking with the rear sight in the charging handle. The main reason for that is that the flip up sights or aftermarket rear sights do not look as strong and sticking up that high I am afraid that the rear sight will take a bunch of abuse. I will get a flip up rear sight when and if I decide to go optics.
The Ambi-safety allows me to safety off with the thumb and then go safety on with the trigger finger with less breaking of my shooting grip than I do with just using the thumb. That could be overcome by training, but now I can safety on and off the same way with either hand.
The extended changing handle release, without an optic, is not a required change but it does make charging the rifle easier with the blade of the left hand. You do not need to come over the top. I do not have a lot of rounds down range and want to take a carbine class this year to confirm, but I believe that it will require less movement form firing position to activate in a failure drill. Less movement will equate to faster clearing and back on target.
Still to come:
I am considering a white light. That is going to mean a rail attachment pint some place. I have not completely made up my mind but I am thinking about a rail that mounts to the A frame of the front sight. Practicing with that will force my off hand up forward, where I think I want it, and should be accessible from either a Left index finger or a right thumb. The other option would be to replace the hand guard with something like a Magpol where I can attaché a short rail at the 2 o'clock position. I do not want a quad rail for what I do I do not see a reason for it. No coffee makers or fish bubblers here.