Author Topic: Is more expensive better or just more expensive  (Read 10620 times)

nosimij

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Is more expensive better or just more expensive
« on: March 02, 2015, 12:01:51 PM »
I am about to start an AR15 lower build.  I have a Rock River lower and parts kit (basic).  My wife shoots long arms left handed so I have decided to go to an ambi safety.  I see $19.99 from CDNN and a local shop has one for $59.95.  Midway carries a number of varieties that come in in the middle of the price range.

I understand that these are machined cams, but what do you get for 3X pricing?   
Of those improvements, assuming all function, what is actually worth extra cash?  I can say that I would be willing to pay for US made over an import.
Is the assumption that they all work reasonable?
It is hard to tell in the on line photos, but I assume that the really only one assembly method.

I assume the conversation over the different shapes is like 9mm or 40cal it is all personal preference.
I am trying not to break the bank but want good and safe rifle.

tombogan03884

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Re: Is more expensive better or just more expensive
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2015, 01:40:43 PM »
Unless you want things like precision triggers it's just more expensive, not necessarily any better.
Here's a good thread.

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=29986.0

JC5123

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Re: Is more expensive better or just more expensive
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2015, 02:33:56 PM »
Over the years I have taken commodity AR's and built them to REALLY nice AR's. That's one of the great things about them. Just make sure that you get the lower that you want. After that it's like legos. Upgrade this and that over time, and you end op with a super nice rifle.
I am a member of my nation's chosen soldiery.
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that I will not fail this sacred trust.

Big Frank

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Re: Is more expensive better or just more expensive
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2015, 06:27:53 PM »
I have the right hand version of this and really like it. Safety selector lever, Star, Ambi $25.00 from Rock River Arms. Here's the one I have.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

les snyder

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Re: Is more expensive better or just more expensive
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 09:32:03 PM »
I have ambi safeties on both my primary and backup... US made from reputable company...make sure you cock the hammer to install... you need to remove the grip, detent and spring

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Re: Is more expensive better or just more expensive
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:27:53 PM »

alfsauve

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Re: Is more expensive better or just more expensive
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2015, 05:09:43 AM »
I'm guessing, but I'd think most AR parts are made in US.   I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure most receivers are (DPMS, Spikes, Anderson, etc.) and I just can't see the price point being high enough, or the manufacturing complicated enough to warrant the other parts being off-shore.   Somebody correct me.

It's always a decision about how much to pay.  Availability, quality, features.  Is a Spike's lower worth 50% more than an Anderson?  Then of course we're only talking $30.  Hardly going to break the bank.   But it adds up on a build.  What you thought was going to start as a $500 build ends up costing $700.

My biggest pet peeve is with comps/brakes.   They range from $7 to almost $200.  Put the word "competition" and it doubles in price.   I finally found a Levang style for $26.  It's a knock off, not a DPMS made one.  But then DPMS is backordered and this knock off is arriving Friday.

Then again since you are building it yourself, you can always change out, upgrade, the parts that you find unsatisfactory later. 

One  part I suggest is over sized, easy pull, takedown pins.   Of course if you play the percentage game that just increased the lower parts kit by 28%.  But they are so nice.   ;)

Lets us know how the build progresses.  What it costs.  Which parts you decided.  How you like them.  And of course... pictures.

Will work for ammo
USAF MAC 437th MAW 1968-1972

billt

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Re: Is more expensive better or just more expensive
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2015, 07:46:31 AM »
With the exception of barrels and high end triggers, I have yet to hear a convincing argument about how some AR-15 parts are "better" than others. It always ends up in the same place. Mil-Spec vs. non Mil-Spec, with each side beating their chest as to why one is supposedly "better".

Most all major AR-15 parts, (lower and upper forgings, complete bolt carrier groups, standard trigger components, etc.), are all made by just a handful of manufacturers who supply the entire industry. Some, like Daniel Defense, claim to manufacturer everything in house. That may or may not be true. None of us have any real way of knowing, unless you actually saw this with your own eyes in an in house tour. And even if it were true, it is no guarantee their quality is better than anyone else's. Companies like Continental Machine Tool supply many, if not most, of the AR-15 world with a variety of components they sell in bulk to all the different manufacturers. The exception of course, are specialty components like Nickel Boron treated Bolt Carrier Groups, ambidextrous safeties, rail forends, (both Delta Ring and free float), etc.

Again some will argue this, or else argue they provide different levels of quality to different manufacturers. All of it is based on hearsay without a shred of actual proof. CMT is bound by contract not to reveal who they manufacture for. So no one has any way of knowing. I've seen CMT bolts in Colt, as well as Stag Arms weapons. Common sense dictates they are the same quality. Why would they be different? It costs more money to manufacture at different levels of quality, because you are complicating the process. Both physically, and with more paper work and people in order to manage the different materials, processes, and certifications.

I have AR-15's from 6 different manufacturers that run the gamut in price........... and arguably quality. And I have never broken a component in any of them in tens of thousands of rounds, in well over a decade of shooting. That said, I don't "torture test" my rifles, or abuse them. I keep them clean and well lubricated at all times. Am I "lucky"? You tell me. In any event, 100% reliability in half a dozen different brands of weapons tells me if there is in fact a difference in quality of these weapons, it is meaningless to me from an operational standpoint. With 100% reliability in all of them, is it really going to matter which one I grab if I hear "bump" in the middle of the night?

I think there is way too much concern over all of this. None of which can be proven either way. When you look at the millions of AR-15 rifles out there, along with the millions more that are sold every year. And take into account all of the aftermarket parts sold, I highly doubt there is much, if any measurable difference in overall quality in the service lifetime of said part. If there is, I haven't seen it in well over a decade of shooting AR-15 rifles. As always YMMV.

PegLeg45

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Re: Is more expensive better or just more expensive
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 06:06:16 PM »
Bill said pretty much on point.


I have a DPMS that I work on off and on, as far as upgrades go, and as money permits. The best prices for the items I have bought came through Amazon.
One particular comparison I can speak on is the aluminum fore-end. I shopped around and found the aluminum quad rails were advertised by most "big name" makers for $75 and up. I even found a BLACKHAWK! brand version at (of all places) walmart for $79. I bought an identical version from Amazon for $26, and it came with rubber rail covers an I bundled it with other things and got free shipping. Fit and finish of the item was above and beyond what one would expect for the price.

I'm one of those guys who takes the time to read reviews on items, especially on Amazon. You have to remember to take them with a grain of salt and weigh it with common sense, but when an item has something like 500 reviews and 90% of them are four and five stars, you can generally bet it is a solid item. For example, back in December I was looking at muzzle brakes and comps. Like Alf said, they start way low and go up from there. One in particular was a brake with a very high rating with a pretty good-sized group of total reviews. It only cost $17.....so I ordered one just for giggles. The reviews were spot-on..... they all said it worked way better than a cheap part should and that it removed practically all muzzle rise, but was loud enough to wake the dead..... all true. I still want a Levang style that throws the blast more forward...but until then the $17 part will do.... I'll just make sure I have hearing protection unless my life absolutely depends on it (cause this thing is deafening!).





 
"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

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JC5123

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Re: Is more expensive better or just more expensive
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2015, 10:11:27 AM »
Ok, MB got to rant on the podcast yesterday, now it's my turn. I understand the nicety of a compensator, or muzzle brake, but MY GOD MAN! When you have to shoot next to a guy who has one on his rifle for 3 days straight!!!! Even with plugs and muffs my ears got pounded! so PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE be considerate. If you are going to a class, spare the guy next to you, and take off the damn comp!!!!
I am a member of my nation's chosen soldiery.
God grant that I may not be found wanting,
that I will not fail this sacred trust.

Big Frank

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Re: Is more expensive better or just more expensive
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2015, 12:21:45 PM »
The artillery style comps from JP Enterprises look like they would be really bad to be next to. I don't shoot much and thankfully haven't had the displeasure of being next to anything especially loud.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

 

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