The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: PegLeg45 on November 01, 2008, 07:57:29 PM
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For those that like to tinker with their 1911's or those who may have wondered about upgrading parts, here is a several part article on the Brownells web bench that I thought had some interesting information with cutaway views.
Part 1: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?p=0&t=1&i=879
Part 2: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?p=0&t=1&i=965
Part 3: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?p=0&t=1&i=1238&mc_ID=2017
Part 4: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?p=0&t=1&i=1291&mc_ID=2018
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Good articles, did all those upgrades to mine as well. Only difference was I had another gunsmith install my sights. I had to have a dovetail cut into the front of the slide for the new sight.
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I did a most of those mods too and had a few done for me. I want to get an extended thumb safety but wonder if I should install it myself or not. It doesn't look too hard, but that's one of those things I never learned to do. G.I. parts were drop-in fit so we didn't have to worry about filing off too much.
P.S. Brownells monthy email is a great resource.
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The tactical thumb safety is very simple, I find it helps to use a very small diameter punch to hold the plunger and spring assembly in place when installing the safety. Once you figure it out, its a breeze.
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The tactical thumb safety is very simple, I find it helps to use a very small diameter punch to hold the plunger and spring assembly in place when installing the safety. Once you figure it out, its a breeze.
I use a tiny screwdriver that fits the magazine catch lock to hold the plunger in. That's not the hard part. I just don't want to screw up the hand fitting. One file I bought from Brownells takes off a lot of material even though it's so fine it looks like it's not doing anything. The only time I used it I wrecked a Contender rear sight by widening the notch too much. Before I did that it was so narrow I couldn't get a proper sight picture so I had to widen the notch or narrow the front sight. BTW, sights made for a 14" barrel don't work so well on a 9" barrel because the notch is a lot narrower than the blade. I have another sight and I'm going to try it again but I keep putting it off. I think I'll be okay fixing that, and hand fitting the 1911 safety, if I just file a few strokes at a time.
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That is probably the biggest mistake people make when filing parts, they don't check their progress often enough. If I am working on something with very tight tolerances, I make one or two passes with the file and then check the fit. That way I don't remove too much material. Another thing you can do to help is use a dye on the part and only remove the dye and recheck the fit. The safety I have didn't require much fitting. I guess I got lucky with mine.
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Isn't it MB that stated on a show once that he shouldn't be allowed to own a Dremmel?
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Smartest thing I ever did was to realize I had no freeking idea what I was doing and let someone who did, do it for me!!!!! Cost less and had more to spend on guns and stuff!
Richard
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The parts I've bought from Wilson Combat for my Para have been drop in and needed no fitting. Extended slide stop/release and extended safety work like a charm. I would have to do a little more homework to replace a sear, trigger assembly or any other internals but so far, no problems. The sell both drop in and parts that may need fitting plus, there are no shipping charges for their parts.
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It is also a good reading info for working knowledge on how the 1911 is put together (for those who have never ventured into taking one apart).
I think one of the articles has measurements for for some of the critical parts (good for measuring when doing safety checks after detail stripping).
I like to read as much as I can on anything having to do with the 1911.
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Another interesting 1911 article....this time on mainspring housings.
Mainspring Housing Replacement
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?p=0&t=1&i=1333&mc_ID=2022
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Cool animated videos of 1911 assembly and functions....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P4XJTKzKEU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H3IFJXxyEs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHviEIkZWhA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMC_gfza6Mk
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PegLeg,
This stuff is timely. And I have a question for you and the other 1911 aficionados. I have Springfield Operator (full-size frame). If I wanted to convert from a Government model to a Commander model, what would I need to change? I know the obvious stuff like barrel, slide, and mainspring but what else do I need to consider?
As one can tell, I'm not really versed on the upgrades and optional enhancements that can be done to one but I would appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks!
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Doesn't the Commander have a shorter frame ? I'm thinking the area in front of the trigger guard is shorter on the Commander so you might as well buy another pistol as it is not worth the investment to convert.
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Unfortunately, I am one of those "need to show me" one time guy. I "tweaked" my S&W full-size 1911, via a pro, trigger job, ambi safety installed (lefty), feed ramp & mag well "love", hammer spring, and a few other things.
It really is my favorite. ;D
(well, they are all my favorite, BUT this one is really my favorite. ::)
Knowing my luck, the dis-assembly would be NO problem, it's that RE-assembly. If my gunsmith wouldn't have been so busy, I probably could have watched him go on mine, but I had to get to work so I could pay the man.
SO, routine field-strips for me, but I want to give it a try with someone at a table or bench that can do it in his/her sleep, and has a little patience.
Like that other video of the young girl that can take down an AR + re-assemble it, in like 30 seconds or less,.... :o
Since I was posting about it,....
some Sat. gun porn,. 8)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/The45.jpg)
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NICE !
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Doesn't the Commander have a shorter frame?
Yes, the frame is fractionaly shorter but of the same height. A Commander size frame carries a standard magazine with 3/4" shorter barrel and shortened dust cover/forward portion in front of trigger guard.
Kimber and Wilson use 4" barrels in their Commander frames. Para uses 4-1/4 as does Colt and Springfield. I think S&W does as well.
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PegLeg,
This stuff is timely. And I have a question for you and the other 1911 aficionados. I have Springfield Operator (full-size frame). If I wanted to convert from a Government model to a Commander model, what would I need to change? I know the obvious stuff like barrel, slide, and mainspring but what else do I need to consider?
As one can tell, I'm not really versed on the upgrades and optional enhancements that can be done to one but I would appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks!
I can't tell you about every manufacturer (some use different specs in some areas than the original design) but on most I've seen, a Gov't model frame is the same as a Commander frame, except maybe on the front end. I know Colt uses the same frame for both and I have swapped mine several times. Only the Officers model uses the smaller frame (someone once told me a gov't slide would work on an officers frame but there would be a big gap up front at the dust cover, but I don't have an officers model to try).
Before I went and spent money on the parts, I would call the manufacturer and ask them.... just in case.
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OK. You made me go to the safe.
I used a para p-14 and a p-12. On the p-12, the dust cover and grip are about 1/4" shorter.
BOTH slides interchanged (looked goofy but it worked). The differance being there was a gap between
the slide and frame on the p-12. I can't imagine this would affect functioning unless somehow the
recoil spring got pinched. So, you can take a shorter slide and put it in the larger frame and the only thing
is the dust cover runs farther up the slide but not to the end. Changing the length on the grip would be
the problem.
I'm not sure why you would want to do this, just buy another gun. ;)
In the midst of tearing things apart, I found a broken ejector on my p-14. Thanks.
P.S. I have to go talk my wife out of the bedroom. She ran to hide when I told her the people in the
computer told me to go look at my guns. ;D
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Peg, Thank you for that post, I was not sure about that.
Junkie, Tell the wife there really are other people on the computer, it's when the voices in your HEAD tell you to do things that she needs to start worrying ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D ;D
Now THAT is scary ! ;D
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P.S. I have to go talk my wife out of the bedroom. She ran to hide when I told her the people in the
computer told me to go look at my guns. Grin
LMAO!!!!
Beer on keyboard again,...... ;D
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I'm not sure why you would want to do this, just buy another gun. ;)
Sorry about the extractor...... :(
Thanks for the information!
As for the "why" part, it's about cost and features, though it would not be cheap it would be cheaper than buying another gun. Also, this frame is steel and has a rail on it (a nice feature to me). And with a shorter slide I can take advantage of the features of a Commander-size frame but keep some of the things about the steel full size model. The last reason is why not? I thought one of the nice things about the 1911 platform is it lends itself to alot of customization......
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Plus, if you already have a frame, you can buy a slide and build it without an FFL.
Midway and Brownells sell them, as well as other places.
You could have a very nice trigger job on a frame set-up, then have different slides for different purposes, such as bowling pins, bullseye, steel, USPSA...etc, all with different sights, barrels and so on.
Examples:
(and no, I'm not working for Brownells. It's just that they seem to have the bigger selection)
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=6056&title=1911%20AUTO%20ENHANCED%20SLIDE
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=12445&title=1911%20AUTO%202011%20BAR%20STOCK%20SLIDE
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In truth, I am a terrible gun butcher...I lack the patience and focus on meticulous work that are the hallmarks of great gunsmiths. I can work on 1911s (and S&W & Ruger revolvers), and am a certified Glock armorer, but it is all strictly blunt trauma stuff.
In fact, as I mentioned in the podcast, I'm retro-izing my Para GI Expert...so Friday I get a call from my old pal Bill Laughridge at Cylinder & Slide — who did indeed once write that I should be banned by federal law from owning a Dremel Tool — to catch up on stuff. I mentioned that I was retro-izing the Para, and Bill starts hyperventilating.
"For heaven's sake, Michael, just send me the gun and the box of parts before you screw anything up!" he said. "I mean it...you're dangerous with a file!"
Michael B
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Speaking of Bill Laughridge at Cylinder & Slide, here is some info from his site that should be required reading on the 1911:
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/1911safetyck.shtml
Safety Checking a 1911
To Properly safety check a 1911 pistol, you must check the thumb safety, the grip safety, the disconnector and, on series 80 style pistols, the firing pin lock out feature.
Before beginning the safety checks- BE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT YOUR PISTOL IS UNLOADED!
The thumb safety should be checked first. To check the thumb safety, cock the hammer and engage the thumb safety - then firmly pull and release the trigger. The hammer must not drop. Disengage the thumb safety - the hammer should not drop. Do not touch the trigger again.
The next check is to determine if the thumb safety is holding the sear from partially disengaging from the hammer. (I call this the click test - and remember - DO NOT TOUCH THE TRIGGER after disengaging the thumb safety.)
After disengaging the thumb safety, place the hammer area of the pistol close to your so that you can hear the slightest click when you run this test. With the hammer area of the pistol held close to your ear, pull the hammer to the rear very slightly. Do not touch the hammer at all until you have placed the pistol near your ear. If you hear a very slight click when you touch the hammer this is the sound of the sear jumping back into full engagement with the hammer full cock hooks. Remember, you must engage the thumb safety, pull and release the trigger, disengage the thumb safety, hold the pistol near your ear, and then just touch the hammer slightly to the rear. If you hear a click the safety is allowing the sear to move slightly out of engagement with the hammer. The hammer hooks that the sear engages with are only .022" thick as made at the factory and if the pistol has had a trigger job done the hooks could have been shortened to .019". Any movement of the sear could leave the sear engaging the hammer with only a few thousandths.
NOT SAFE!
If you hear a click you must have the safety replaced or welded up and re-cut to stop any sear movement with the thumb safety engaged.
Next you will check the grip safety. To test the grip safety, first cock the pistol. Then with the pistol cocked, thumb safety off, and the grip safety not depressed, pull the trigger firmly and release. The hammer should not fall. If the hammer falls when the trigger is firmly pulled without the grip safety depressed the grip safety is defective. The grip safety must be repaired before you load or fire the pistol.
The next step in checking the grip safety is to determine that the grip safety is not allowing any sear movement just as you did in the thumb safety test. This is a repeat of the click test. To test for this you run the grip safety test as just described and then place the pistol next to your ear. Touch the hammer slightly to the rear and listen for a click. If you hear a click the grip safety is not blocking the movement of the trigger enough to prevent slight movement of the sear away from the hammer. Again this test is just a repeat of the click test that you did to check the hammer. Remember, do not depress the grip safety during the test and do not touch the hammer until you have placed the hammer next to your ear to hear the click.
Next you will check the disconnector. The disconnector is the part that makes your pistol a semi-auto and allows the hammer to re-cock after each shot while the trigger is still fully depressed.
To test the disconnector, first cock the pistol. Hold the pistol as you would if your were going to fire the pistol with one hand. Do not place your finger on the trigger yet. Place the palm of the other hand squarely on the muzzle and press the barrel and slide straight to the rear as far as they will go. The slide and barrel will move to the rear approximately 1/4" before stopping. While you hold the slide and barrel in this position you then place your finger on the trigger and pull the trigger. Hold the trigger fully pulled to the rear. The hammer should not fall against the slide when you pull the slide forward. The hammer should still not fall. Now release the trigger, the hammer still should not fall. You should hear a firm click when you release the trigger. The click that you hear is the disconnector reconnecting with the sear to allow that pistol to be fired again. Now that you have released the trigger and the disconnector has reconnected, pull the trigger again. The hammer should fall.
The last safety check to be performed is for Colt series 80 Pistols and all Para Ordnance pistols. This safety check will cover the firing pin lock our feature. This feature prevents the firing pin from moving far enough forward to fire the cartridge unless the trigger is pulled. This feature makes the pistol one of the safest pistols manufactured.
The firing pin lock out feature consists of a spring loaded plunger located in the slide that prevents the firing pin from moving far enough forward to fire the cartridge unless the trigger is pulled far enough to depress the plunger. The trigger movement is transferred to the plunger by the movement of two levers.
First, you should know the correct names for the parts involved. The plunger that prevents the firing pin from moving is called the firing pin block plunger. The spring that returns the firing pin to the locked position is called the firing pin block plunger spring. There are two levers that transfer the trigger motion to unlock the firing pin. The lever that the trigger pushes on is the trigger lever and the lever that the trigger lever moves that contacts the firing pin block plunger is called the block plunger lever. Please look at the diagram in the manual that came with your gun to see the arrangement of the levers and their action.
There are two reasons to check the firing pin lock our system. The first reason to check the system is to be sure that the firing pin is locked when the trigger is no pulled and the second is to be sure that the firing pin unlocks quickly enough to let the pistol fire.
To check the firing pin to see if it is locked is very simple. First, cock the pistol. Then take a punch that is slightly smaller than the rear of the firing pin that protrudes through the firing pin stop and push firmly on the firing pin being sure that the punch is only touching the firing pin and not the edge of the hole. Press on the punch as hard as you can with hand pressure. The firing pin will move slightly forward, about 1/8" but will not move far enough forward to allow you to remove the firing pin stop. This slight movement of the firing pin will not let the front of the firing pin protrude through the breech face.
Now you need to check to see that the firing pin is being unlocked when the trigger is pulled. To do this, hold the hammer fully to the rear, depress the grip safety, and pull and hold the trigger fully rearward. Continue to hold the hammer fully to the rear. The grip safety can now be released as you are holding the hammer back and the trigger fully to the rear. You can now take your punch and see if the firing pin is unlocked. Press on the firing pin with your punch. The firing pin should move completely forward with no binding. If you feel the firing pin click off of a hard spot as you push it forward or it fails to move fully forward, you need to have the pistol examined by a gunsmith that fully understands the series 80 firing pin lock out system. The firing pin should move far enough forward that the end of the firing pin that your are pressing on will move below the firing pin stop. Now release the firing pin, release the trigger and drop the hammer. Cock the hammer once more and check that the firing pin has returned to the rearward position and press on it once more to check that it is locked again.
If you have installed a trigger with an over-travel stop or adjust the over-travel stop on an existing trigger you may limit the rearward trigger travel to a point that the firing pin will not unlock to fire the pistol. You can also create a potential problem if the firing pin block is unlocking just far enough to allow the firing pin to strike the firing pin block plunger every time you fire the pistol. This is indicated by the firing pin clicking off of a hard spot when you are pushing the firing pin forward to check that the firing pin is being unlocked when you pull the trigger. If you do have a trigger over-travel stop and the firing pin will not unlock or you feel the click when you press the firing pin forward during the unlock check you must back off the over-travel stop until you correct the problem. If the firing pin continues to strike the firing pin block plunger each time you fire the pistol, the firing pin or the firing pin block plunger will be damaged and will eventually cause the firing pin to stick forward or to not unlock. Should the firing pin stick forward, the pistol can go full or auto or jam the round that is being fed. There is a special plunger lever that is available for use in pistols that have a trigger over-travel stop.
Should your pistol fail any of these tests, do not load or fire you pistol until you have had the problem corrected.
If you find that your pistol has a safety problem and you do not have a local pistolsmith that can fix your pistol.
Cylinder & Slide, Inc. will be happy to repair your pistol.
Please call and set up an appointment to have your pistol repaired.
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I just add it as along if I think some might like the info.
Here is a good bit of info on 1911's.....
http://www.sightm1911.com/
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Here is a thread started by Alf Sauve' on installing a 1911 safety....... good info:
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=8084.0;topicseen
From Alf:
Okay, using my birthday funds, I got an Ed Brown wide, extended safety for my 1911 (Colt Mk IV '70 Government)
Now I knew going in that "some gun smithing may be required" and yes it was. Hard to describe with the little nooks and cranny's what had to be filed, but for those unfamiliar I thought I'd recount.
The instructions assume you know what to file. They just say try the fit and then "file as necessary". There is an official "gunsmith black" compound that you coat on a metal surface then fit the parts together and where they rub the black comes off. But I don't have any of that so I used the very next best thing. Soot. Using a small candle (this only works on metal things), I passed the safety through the flame till it was real sooty, then assembled it as far as it would go and wiggled it. Sure enough I could see what was rubbing. Slow use of some small files, flat, triangular and rounded did the trick as I tried to make it look just like the original. Took four "sessions". Then I took a soft pointed, tear drop shaped stone on my Dremel tool to remove all the tool marks.
I didn't try to blue it, but just coated it with a Hoppes lubricant for internal parts. Works great. So much better than the original.
To date (over 38 year period) I've put in a pnematic buffer, a flat mainspring housing, plastic checkered grips and high adjustable sights. (have all the original parts)
Just thought I'd share for other thinking about making some mods.
Oh, the candle soot works well for blackening metal sights to make them sharper to see.
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More safety function check info to supplement the C&S stuff above:
http://www.coolgunsite.com/funcheck/function.htm
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For you 1911 guys, I ran across these videos of a 1911 trigger job by Terry Gardner at Impact Guns.
The videos are a little long but there is some useful info.
Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCF2u3K743A
Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-uHeePP1CY
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For you 1911 guys, I ran across these videos of a 1911 trigger job by Terry Gardner at Impact Guns.
The videos are a little long but there is some useful info.
Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCF2u3K743A
Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-uHeePP1CY
Nutnfancy is great fun to watch!! I love watching his videos. He seems like a very personable guy. He reviews gun, knife and tactical gear, he actually films some of the testing and gives you his honest opinion of what he likes and doesn't like. He also has some good videos of what he calls "Run n Gun", where he gets out and has a good time pulling the trigger. I highly recommend watching some of his videos.
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1911 mainspring housing R&R video from Brownells
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12951/learn/Installing_A_Mainspring_Housing_Mag_Well_On_A_1911?mc_ID=2039
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I thought I posted about it but I guess not.
Last winter I changed the thumb safety on my 1911 with an extended one from Brownell's.
I tapped the old one out with a punch, pushing the punch all the way through to remove the old one then I just used the new one to push the punch back out .
Dropped in fine no filing , stoning or cursing ;D
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An article authored by Stanton Wormley and posted by Sheriff Jim Wilson on FB, it has a good bit of information on 1911 reliability tuning:
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/tuning-the-m1911-for-reliability/
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Geez Chuck! Dragged this post out of the archives or what?
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Geez Chuck! Dragged this post out of the archives or what?
Yeah, I reckon so.........didn't feel like starting a whole new thread, even though this hasn't been used in nearly a year. ;D
What we need is a 1911 board on the forum for us disciples of JMB........... or at least a sub-board in the handguns section. ;D ;D
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Yeah, I reckon so.........didn't feel like starting a whole new thread, even though this hasn't been used in nearly a year. ;D
What we need is a 1911 board on the forum for us disciples of JMB........... or at least a sub-board in the handguns section. ;D ;D
On that we'll agree. That way, all the young guys can stay out!
Marshal! MMMMMMAAAAARRRRRSSSSSHHHHHAAAAALLLLLL!!!!!!!!! You listening you Norwegian cowboy?
Get busy Marshal and see to the demands of the few!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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For the ultimate DIY guys, here is a neat article from this month's Brownells WebBench on building your own palmswell 1911 grip safety using the end of a plumbing pipe and some Acra Glas bedding compound.
If you already have the Acra Glas, you can save a buck or two. But, if you have to buy the stuff, IMHO, you might be better off just buying an aftermarket grip safety.
A good TiG welder could weld it on and hand file/polish it out.
Anyway, I thought it was an "out of the box" approach, and worth sharing.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=14565/GunTechdetail/Brownells-Gunsmith-Tech-Corner-October-2011?mc_ID=2054&sp_rid=MjM3MDM5NjE4NzMS1&sp_mid=3734090
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I may have to order some parts for my son's PT1911 if he comes down for Christmas. That would be a cool father/son project. It looks like a hammer, trigger, and sights would be a good start, any suggestions?
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PegLeg,
This stuff is timely. And I have a question for you and the other 1911 aficionados. I have Springfield Operator (full-size frame). If I wanted to convert from a Government model to a Commander model, what would I need to change? I know the obvious stuff like barrel, slide, and mainspring but what else do I need to consider?
As one can tell, I'm not really versed on the upgrades and optional enhancements that can be done to one but I would appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks!
If you look at a Springfield Champion Operator I'm almost certain it uses the same length frame as the full sized railed model (TRP frame actually). It gives it more of the monolithic frame look. It makes the dust cover go nearly to the end of the pistol. I personally like the look of it. There's no reason you can't build up a commander length top end and put it on your current frame. I believe if you go with a 4" top end it will give you a full monolithic look and a 4.25" frame will come up, obviously, a .25" short of being full length.
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I may have to order some parts for my son's PT1911 if he comes down for Christmas. That would be a cool father/son project. It looks like a hammer, trigger, and sights would be a good start, any suggestions?
Hard to go wrong with parts from makers like Ed Brown, Cylinder & Slide, EGW etc. I would advise to go with forged parts and if you get a hammer, then pop for a kit with all the group parts, i.e. hammer, sear, disconnector. When using a "drop-in" kit from reputable manufacturers, very little final fitting (if any) is needed.
Both Brownells and Midway USA carry a fine selection of 1911 parts and most makers sell then directly. Both have great technical pages and you can also call them with questions and they can help you with selection ideas.
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Here is a link to Brownell's slide-to-frame fit chart. It can be handy when fitting a slide to a frame, but I printed several off and use them in my data book for tracking wear. Every so often when cleaning, I will grab the calipers and do some quick measuring and this page comes in handy for that.
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/learn/1911framemeasurements.pdf
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Handy. Any info on what is good/better/best, or is it just to track wear?
And, not to be too pedant, shouldn't that second line be B-E? Otherwise you're getting a negative number.
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I wish I had a way to measure mine. I have an alloy frame Para that rattles like a maraca. I think most of the wear is on the frame.
P.S. It's about 25 years old and has been shot a lot.
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I wish I had a way to measure mine. I have an alloy frame Para that rattles like a maraca. I think most of the wear is on the frame.
P.S. It's about 25 years old and has been shot a lot.
This is all you need...I think
http://www.amazon.com/Inch-Digital-Caliper-Extra-Battery/dp/B0002JFMIO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375554882&sr=8-2&keywords=digital+calliper
Not to expensive and should be adequate for most work.
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I thought all calipers were expensive. Boy was I wrong. Too bad they're made in China.
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I thought all calipers were expensive. Boy was I wrong. Too bad they're made in China.
So are a lot of more expensive ones Frank! Starrett has caved in and builds their lesser priced models in Asia now too. I suspect Browne and Sharp have as well.
I make my living by the .001". I still trust Starrett even though some are made overseas. Mititoyo makes a good instrument for a decent price. Japanese manufactured I think.
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Yes Tim, Mitatoyo is made in Japan.
They are also about the best you compromise you will find between price and quality.
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We also have a 100K Browne and Sharpe CMM at the shop!
Send me your frames and I'll have my buddy Dan measure them up to .000000001"!
;D
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Can it print out a "Blueprint" type dimensioned drawing or just a list of dimensions?
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Can it print out a "Blueprint" type dimensioned drawing or just a list of dimensions?
I'm not sure Tom! I can find out though...
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Handy. Any info on what is good/better/best, or is it just to track wear?
And, not to be too pedant, shouldn't that second line be B-E? Otherwise you're getting a negative number.
I believe you are correct.
B-E should give the amount of wear........ of course, noting that this page was originally meant for pre-build/during build measuring of raw frames and slides.... but I've always done that by feel for a final fit.........and for it to be of any value tracking wear, one would need to know the starting numbers, like on a new pistol.
When I have bought new 1911's, I have usually measured the fit, but things like this are mainly for folks like me that tend to go "over-technical" on stuff like this.... ;)
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Just don't let him breathe, the temp deviation at that small of measurent is more than enough to move a part. I used to run a jig bore and we'd lock the door when we got "tight".
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Solid info on compact 1911 reliability from Bill Wilson:
http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/1911/a-reliable-compact-1911-by-bill-wilson/?utm_source=Wilson+Combat+Newsletter&utm_campaign=4c7f2b3424-Compact1911_2_21_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_7e19171a14-4c7f2b3424-310078081
I often hear comments like “I only trust a full size 1911 because they are more reliable”. Well folks I’m here to tell you this statement isn’t necessarily true. While it is true some ultra compact 1911s with barrel lengths under 3.5” often have reliability issues, there are other important factors involved such as spring weights, firing pin stop dimensions, ammunition selection and whether or not the pistol will push feed.
The basic functional difference between a full size (as John Browning designed it) 1911 pistol and a compact version with a 4.25” or shorter barrel is slide mass and speed. Basically anytime you reduce mass and propel it with the same energy you will get faster cycle speed. Why does this matter? The pistol needs a certain amount of time to eject a fired case, allow the magazine to lift, position the next round for proper feeding and chamber the round. When slide mass is reduced and therefore slide cycle speed increased there may not be time for this to all happen properly.
So we must slow the slide cycle speed down and this is accomplished by a combination of the following:
Heavy hammer spring
Square bottom firing pin stop
Ammunition that generates less recoil impulse
Proper recoil spring weight for the ammunition used
It’s much easier to slow the slide down by making it harder for it to cock the hammer than it is to just add poundage to the recoil spring. What we’re doing here is increasing the force needed to cock the hammer with a heavier spring and reducing the slides ability to cock the hammer by lowering the leverage point on the hammer, thus slowing slide cycle speed.
All the mechanical changes are important, but the biggest factor is ammunition selection because it affects both slide cycle speed and the magazine’s ability to lift the cartridge into position for proper feeding. Ammunition loaded with 230gr bullets generate more recoil impulse (especially +P loads) than 185gr loads and 7 rounds of 185gr ammunition weighs 315gr less than 7 rounds of 230gr ammunition making the column of ammunition easier for the magazine spring to lift. I hope you see where I’m going here? With modern hollow point bullets we have LOTS of bullet choices of 200gr or less that have proven to be VERY effective in regards to terminal performance.
Here are my personal ammunition choices for compact 1911s:
200gr Lead Semi-Wadcutter (H&G #68 mold) loaded to 850fps
200gr Hornady HAP loaded to 850fps
160gr Barnes TAC TX loaded to 1050fps
185gr Barnes TAC TX loaded to 950fps
185gr Winchester Silvertip
185gr Remington Golden Sabre
200gr Hornady XTP
The ammunition you DO NOT want to shoot in compact 1911s is 230gr +P loads!
At Wilson Combat we have also pioneered the use of modern flatwire recoil springs in Compact 1911 pistols. These springs will enhance your overall reliability since they hold their overall length and tension many times longer than standard round wire springs since the coils never go into bind.
After extensive testing we now put them in all our compact pistols.
This brings us to push feed. 1911 pistols are designed for controlled round feeding which means the cartridge is supposed to slide under the extractor hook as it feeds into the chamber. However all 1911s don’t always do this, especially when slide speed is increased. This is really no big deal as long as the pistol is set-up to push feed. This is simply the shaping of the front of the extractor hook so it can snap over the case rim without undue resistance. This is easy to check by putting a empty case in the chamber, slowly lower the slide until the extractor contacts the case rim, then snapping the slide shut. You should be able to do this fairly easy with your thumb. If the slide won’t close or it takes both thumbs to close the pistol, it probably won’t push feed properly and the extractor needs adjusted.
I began shooting 4” compact 1911s almost exclusively in the late 90s primarily due to my failing eyesight, it just became easier for me to get a good focus on the sights with them closer together. 100′s of thousands of rounds later and several major IDPA match wins I can assure you a properly set-up and fed compact 1911 is every bit as reliable as any full size. As a final testament to my faith in a 4” compact, I carry one on my hip EVERY day, usually loaded with 160gr or 185gr Barnes TAC XP bullets.
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More good info from Wilson Combat.......
Wilson Combat's Guide to 1911 Magazine Troubleshooting
http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/gunsmithing/wilson-combats-guide-to-1911-magazine-troubleshooting/
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More good info from Wilson Combat.......
Wilson Combat's Guide to 1911 Magazine Troubleshooting
http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/gunsmithing/wilson-combats-guide-to-1911-magazine-troubleshooting/
So...someone other than me reads this stuff from Bill Wilson?
;)
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So...someone other than me reads this stuff from Bill Wilson?
;)
For years.... ;D
Bill Wilson, Bill Loughridge, Richard Heinie, Alex Hamilton, Jack Mitchell........ just to name a few.
;D
**You'd be surprised at how much technical data many custom guys have on their web pages.....and surprised at how few gun guys think to look there for info.
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Nine Steps to a Reliable 1911
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=16472/GunTechdetail/Gunsmith-Corner-March-2014