The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: HAWKFISH on November 07, 2008, 08:32:27 AM
-
Times are hard for many people right now. And the gun-community is reeling and scared after the elections. I am scared and very concerned about our country and the future road it is going to take. In my honest opinion.. even after the elections this is still the best country on earth. I am getting angered and frustrated however by people who seem to be "throwing in the towel." I just went by the gunstore yesterday and hearld some guys talking. "Freedom is over. Kiss your guns goodbye! Kiss your freedom goodbye!" All kinds of negative statements that there is no hope and all is doomed. Why are some so ready to throw in that towel?
What if our founding fathers would have thrown in the towel? How did America come into existance. It wasn't by giving up when times got hard. Freedom is still here and alive. But, just like always it isn't free and throwing in the towel is only going to ensure that you don't have any freedoms and especially any gunrights. I for one am not going to give up. As long as I am breathing and do what little I can everyday to help, then when I look in the mirror I can stand proud and know that I didn't throw in the towel. If everyone did their little part we as a whole, can make a difference. But, all this doom and gloom and giving up isn't going to get you anywhere...that's what the Anti-Gunners want. And some are falling right into their plot. This is just my .02 cents. But please think about this and don't.. throw in the towel.
-
+1
...but it isn't easy.
-
Well said Hawkfish, MB had a great Down Range Radio show # 83
It's time for us to pull together and go to work.
-
I don't think they're 'throwing in the towel', I think they are getting their 'mind right' so they'll be ready.
-
What I keep hearing is to 'be reasonable' & 'wait' - if we wait, it will be too late. Look at gun sales, read what BHo did in the past...
Not to mention Pelosi & Frank & all their buddies as well as Brady etc. They are in power & Pelosi's 'middle' legislating is far different from what my 'middle' would equate to. I guess the middle of the far left?
I have not given up & will not - I propose revolution - by voting, activities etc. Whatever we need to do & if it gets too far out of hand there are ways to fix that too.
-
Nice motivational speech Hawkfish, But we lost this YEARS ago. The most important battle for our rights took place in letting socialists dominate education and media. When the schools and MSM started promoting the glorification of victim hood and political correctness, that was when we should have taken action, that was when we had a chance to preserve our nation by countering the brain washing of our youth. No matter WHAT we do all the enemy has to do is wait for the last of the REAL Americans to die off.
The best we can hope for now is to die with honor, knowing that ,we at least, did not abandon 232 years of work and sacrifice in order to get the free check.
-
This mood that we are going through is part of the process of moving forward it is like the 5 stages of grief:
1-Denial-"this can't be happening to me.
2-Anger-"why me?", feelings of wanting to fight back or get even
3-Bargaining-bargaining often takes place before the loss.
4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of person as well as the hopes, dreams and plans for the future. Feeling lack of control, feeling numb.
5-Acceptance
After the last presidential election the liberals were left for dead after being beaten by Bush in two elections. They got their story put together and it worked this time – they whipped our collective ass!
Let's face it, over the past few years it has been hard to tell the Republicans from the Democrats. Under the Republicans entitlements skyrocketed (non-war spending), we got Medicare Part D, and it seams that every day some big business is getting a billion dollar hand-out. All of this has been under a Republican administration – handouts. What do we have to show for it?
We need new conservative leadership to emerge who can craft a comprehensive conservative message that makes sense to the masses. Why should people vote for a conservative candidate? What is the benefit to living life with conservative principles?
Right now the liberals have painted the conservative movement as benefitting the rich, the privileged, the pious and big business.
This new conservative message needs to figure out how to explain the benefits of living by conservative principles to the young, people of color and the middle-class. This revised message is crucial.
-
Nice motivational speech Hawkfish, But we lost this YEARS ago. The most important battle for our rights took place in letting socialists dominate education and media. When the schools and MSM started promoting the glorification of victim hood and political correctness, that was when we should have taken action, that was when we had a chance to preserve our nation by countering the brain washing of our youth. No matter WHAT we do all the enemy has to do is wait for the last of the REAL Americans to die off.
The best we can hope for now is to die with honor, knowing that ,we at least, did not abandon 232 years of work and sacrifice in order to get the free check.
We lost years ago? The best we can hope for? ...
That's kinda what I'm eluding too. It's like your saying why bother. I mean..is it just me? Does that or does that not sound like it's over and one would be calling it quits? Tombogan03884, I mean no disrespect in anyway. We have talked on posts before and I am not trying to criticize or belittle your point. Your right a lot of this has come down the pipe from years of problems. But does that mean you just automatically have to accept it.. just simply give in ... and be okay with .. just because we are doomed? What if the "REAL Americans" that you mentioned didn't die off? What if through thick and thin and against all odds.. gunowners.. did prevail and enjoy the freedom that was established with the formation of this country? Is that possible? Yes.. but everyone has to be together... working together.. and seeing the glass half full instead of half empty.
-
Everyone here has a point. We just got our asses handed to us. Ok...so you lick your wounds and you stand up as the real americans you are talking about. Stand up for the honor and contientiousness the gun community stands for...the RESPONSIBILITY. Make it impossible for them to paint us as 'Nuts".
With regard to giving up...I myself may have appeared to give up to some, but I stopped talking politics three weeks ago with people and now I'm not talking it hardly at all because I had reached my threshold...damn sick of hearing about it. Well, now that knucklehead is pres-elect and the dems are drooling, I'm still sick of hearing about it. But I'll bounce back...we all will.
There have been democratic presidents before and there have been democratic congresses and we've had setbacks before. Cycles, everybody...the world operates in cycles. Let's be ready for the first crack in their armor.
-
if the dumbocrats can win, so can the REAL AMERICANS! it took the dumbs some time to do it, but we can do more to counter all of their propaganda. educate the country in the difference between a democracy and a republic, socialism and capitalism.. etc.... I think most of these retards that voted for... what's his name? did it because
1) they didn't listen to his speaches and compare.. you know .. contradictions.
2) they have no idea what's going on in politics, they vote for the one that looks best.. :P
3) they voted because if they didn't they would be 'racist' . guilt. the dumbies like using that one to win votes.
4) they don't realize that most of the news they recieve is biased.. they don't know what propaganda is.
5) people have a short memory span. they don't remember yesterdays news, or why it happened. history repeats itself.
I think our best chance at getting back is being vocal and educating our neighbors, community. some will listen if you say it enough. and above all, tell nothing but the truth.. it's always the loudest.
I'm not giving up, in fact, I've ruined a couple of parties here because I do speak up when someone starts talking smack. and I tell everyone why I have these views and why I believe what I do. yes I have converted a few.. and I will continue.
-
I'm not throwing in the towel, just hunkering down for the long haul.
You don't have to wait and see what they've planned it's all at:
http://CHANGE.gov (http://CHANGE.gov) (don't you just love how he's hijacked the TLD)
Here's the "starter" list:
-Repeal the Tiahrt Amendment (start that database).
-"COMMONSENSE" measures[emphasis mine] to keep guns from those who shouldn't have them.
-Close the gun show loophole (sic) [read that as control private sales]
-Make guns in this country childproof
-Reinstate the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanently
-
I'm not giving up. I just don't know who to contact to organize a coup. ;)
The current rash of politicians seem to have forgotten who they work for. Not saying there aren't a few good ones, just that we need a fresh and uncorrupted start.
-
We lost years ago? The best we can hope for? ...
That's kinda what I'm eluding too. It's like your saying why bother. I mean..is it just me? Does that or does that not sound like it's over and one would be calling it quits? Tombogan03884, I mean no disrespect in anyway. We have talked on posts before and I am not trying to criticize or belittle your point. Your right a lot of this has come down the pipe from years of problems. But does that mean you just automatically have to accept it.. just simply give in ... and be okay with .. just because we are doomed? What if the "REAL Americans" that you mentioned didn't die off? What if through thick and thin and against all odds.. gunowners.. did prevail and enjoy the freedom that was established with the formation of this country? Is that possible? Yes.. but everyone has to be together... working together.. and seeing the glass half full instead of half empty.
You are in no way even close to offending me Hawkfish. I HOPE you can convince me that it has not gotten to the point where the brainwashed masses out number us so badly that all we have left is being the last scattered defenders of a lost cause, as for throwing in the towel my only answer is NUTS ! ;D
-
I, for one, am looking forward to the next four years, aside from the threat to my 2A rights. I finally get a chance to wag my finger and laugh at some of my more liberal friends for voting for such a moron. This may seem like twisted logic, and it wouldn't be the first time I was accused of such, but I have suffered eight years of abuse by these same idiots (I mean that in the nicest way possible) for voting for Bush. Well... if they thought George was bad, just wait till BHO gets his chance to jack everything up. Oh, and for the record, I'd vote for Bush again given the opportunity.
Swoop
-
I, for one, am looking forward to the next four years, aside from the threat to my 2A rights. I finally get a chance to wag my finger and laugh at some of my more liberal friends for voting for such a moron.
I agree, but there are also many other possible effects of this election.
A disclaimer: This post is in no way intended as an opinion on race. It is meant to pose philisophical questions about cultural issues.
I believe that the african american community will soon face an incredible and critical dillemma in the form of an identity crisis.
Now that America (including a majority of white Americans) has elected an african american president, who was elected with the full support of the main stream media, which has been often labeled by the african american community as being controlled by evil bigots of the jewish persuasion, what happens to all of the african american organizations and prominent individuals who justify their existence and make their living on race-baiting?
1. Now that we have a person of color in the white house, what will be the new platform of the Black Panthers? Will they still be able to make the case that they are necessary because of the opression by white americans?
2. Will charlatan "leaders" like Al Sharpton still be able to turn every social issue into self aggrandizing, income producing crusades- a horrible wrong to right?
3. Speaking of right, what happens to bigots like the Reverend Wright? Louis Farrakkan...what do they rail against now?
4. If these groups and individuals continue to race-bait, will our new president stand up to them and chastise them for their destructive effect, or will they get a pass?
5. What about entitlements? Will our new president stick to his stated policy of calling out to the african american community to take responsibility for their families and culture?
6. How long will it be before we hear the term, "Uncle Tom" from the fringe of the african american community?
Please understand, that I am asking these questions because I cannot concieve of what I would do if I were african american. Admittedly, the election of Obama as POTUS does not eliminate predjudice, etc. I understand that. But doesn't this election and the warm embrace of the majority of americans take some wind out of the sails on the racial debate?
I cannot figure out the answers to these questions myself...that's why I pose them. And perhaps this isn't the forum to pose the questions, because I doubt that many african americans participate in this forum, and I think they are the only people who can really answer. (if you're there, please feel free to respond) It is acknowleged that BHOs election changes history, etc. etc. But I'm not sure that everyone has fathomed the depths of the changes that will come. And I think that once the celebration is over in the african american community we will find that there is an identity crisis of substantial proportion.
For the good of the country I hope the new president is up to the task on that issue as well as all of the others.[color]
-
I don't know about jackson, he's been pretty quiet the last few years, but I am totally serious asking these questions, and I hope everyone does't take this as an opportunity to make jokes...I think this is going to be a real dilemma for the culture for quite some time.
-
We lost years ago? The best we can hope for? ...
That's kinda what I'm eluding too. It's like your saying why bother. I mean..is it just me? Does that or does that not sound like it's over and one would be calling it quits? Tombogan03884, I mean no disrespect in anyway. We have talked on posts before and I am not trying to criticize or belittle your point. Your right a lot of this has come down the pipe from years of problems. But does that mean you just automatically have to accept it.. just simply give in ... and be okay with .. just because we are doomed? What if the "REAL Americans" that you mentioned didn't die off? What if through thick and thin and against all odds.. gunowners.. did prevail and enjoy the freedom that was established with the formation of this country? Is that possible? Yes.. but everyone has to be together... working together.. and seeing the glass half full instead of half empty.
I think we turned the corner years ago. But that doesn't mean we are doomed and resigned to defeat. WE have to fight back to maintain our rights.....but we should be as wise as serpents in doing so. I think that we need to wait on some of our fellow citizens who, for some unknown reason, have lost their rabbit-assed minds and think they are going to get free stuff, to face the reality of the foolishness of their decisions. Steeling against persons easily deceived by expressing to them what is right may only cause them to dig in their heels and stick their heads further into the sand....better I think to wait until they begin to see the error of their ways.
I believe these fellow citizens...who expressed very poor judgement and likely in a selfish manner of greed, will be the first to speak up about their rights, tax money, lifestyle changes; using their own self-righteous indignation to fuel their dissatisfaction. I would wait on them to be thouroghly disgusted with their choice...but that does not mean we roll over and do not fight the good political battles (Join the NRA everyone) while waiting on them to come to their senses. It may be better foster disatisfaction in them by listening to their comments and exhorting them from where "they are" in the process of enlightenment. The people who think they are "owed" something will be among the loudest, most obnoxious to speak out....so let them get the backhand across the jaw first....guide them in their revival and use them like BHO and company used them until (and if) they become truly aware.
-
I, for one, am looking forward to the next four years, aside from the threat to my 2A rights. I finally get a chance to wag my finger and laugh at some of my more liberal friends for voting for such a moron. This may seem like twisted logic, and it wouldn't be the first time I was accused of such, but I have suffered eight years of abuse by these same idiots (I mean that in the nicest way possible) for voting for Bush. Well... if they thought George was bad, just wait till BHO gets his chance to jack everything up. Oh, and for the record, I'd vote for Bush again given the opportunity.
Swoop
Thank you to all, Hawkfish with his question, and Jay with his questions in light of the above quote from Swoop have brought me out of my post election depression. ;D
First a comment on Jessie Jackson's silence. You be keeping your mouth shut to if you said you'd like to "cut his nuts off" then "his" got elected Pres. ;D
What do we have to look forward to besides fighting for our gun rights in a declining economy ? Frequent use of 2 phrases, "that's discrimination" and "Don't blame me, you elected him" ;D All that crap the socialists have been throwing at us for 30+ years is going to get jammed right up their butts, "We weren't racist, we were RIGHT" ;D
It is going to be great fun driving them crazy with their own BS, none of us should EVER miss a chance to piss off a liberal with phrases like "You hoped for change, you got it" especially if they just lost their job or had something repo'd ;D
Another cheery thought (yes, I AM a sick and twisted evil bastard ;D ) since B Ho used ACORN with all their dirty tricks, and Hitleresque speeches, and proposed an American version of SS/Gestapo, that means the gloves are off politically, I'm not ADVOCATING assassination of rivals, or bombing democrat offices, or causing riots at pro Obama rallies, or beating Obama supporters, advocating violence in a public forum could get someone in trouble. BUT, any sort of dirty trick imaginable is now OK, all that Character assassination, slander, provocation, blackmail,taking things out of context then publishing them, all that rotten stuff the CIA did to foreign communist leaders, propagandizing the masses (educating them ). It's all good now . ;D Let the evil genius of our rightness run free. If it makes the socialists look bad or, even better, dumb, go for it ROFL ;D
It is impossible to fight humor and humiliation, you can suppress a smart ass, but you cannot suppress smirks and snickers when you make an ass of your self.
Now I have a question of my own, can any of you come up with a country that was ruled peacefully and prosperously by a man of African descent, Kenya is out because they had the Mau Mau uprising in the 50's and current trouble between Muslims and Christians, can't think of any others later than the Roman Empire.
-
I think we turned the corner years ago. But that doesn't mean we are doomed and resigned to defeat. WE have to fight back to maintain our rights.....but we should be as wise as serpents in doing so. I think that we need to wait on some of our fellow citizens who, for some unknown reason, have lost their rabbit-assed minds and think they are going to get free stuff, to face the reality of the foolishness of their decisions. Steeling against persons easily deceived by expressing to them what is right may only cause them to dig in their heels and stick their heads further into the sand....better I think to wait until they begin to see the error of their ways.
I believe these fellow citizens...who expressed very poor judgement and likely in a selfish manner of greed, will be the first to speak up about their rights, tax money, lifestyle changes; using their own self-righteous indignation to fuel their dissatisfaction. I would wait on them to be thouroghly disgusted with their choice...but that does not mean we roll over and do not fight the good political battles (Join the NRA everyone) while waiting on them to come to their senses. It may be better foster disatisfaction in them by listening to their comments and exhorting them from where "they are" in the process of enlightenment. The people who think they are "owed" something will be among the loudest, most obnoxious to speak out....so let them get the backhand across the jaw first....guide them in their revival and use them like BHO and company used them until (and if) they become truly aware.
Well put, Rastus.
That's kind of how I've been looking at things. When the masses wake up from the dream and realize that hollow promises, both real and imagined, will fail to come to fruition, they will turn. When the wool is removed from in front of their eyes and they see the real light of day, we will have been vindicated in our beliefs.
-
I just went to the Magpul site, hadn't been there in quite a while. They flashed an interesting quote.
OK, the group is The Cruxshadows, and they appear to be a Goth / thrash / hair / metal / techno-pop kinda group - And they look the part. But, check out the first few stanzas to Winterborn:
Dry your eyes and quietly bear this pain with pride
For heaven shall remember the silent and the brave
And promise me they will never see
The fear within our eyes
(my eyes are closed)
We will give strength to those who still remain
So bury fear, for fate draws near
And hide the signs of pain
With noble acts, the bravest souls
Endure the heart's remains
Discard regret, that in this debt
A better world is made
That children of a newer day might remember
And avoid our fate
(I've waited all day in the pouring rain, but nobody came, no, nobody came)
And in the fury of this darkest hour
We will be your light
You've asked me for my sacrifice
And I am Winter born
Without denying, a faith is come
That I have never known
I hear the angels call my name
And I am Winter born
Hold your head up high-for there is no greater love
Think of the faces of the people you defend
(you defend)
And promise me, they will never see
The tears within our eyes
(my eyes are closed)
Although we are men, with mortal sins, angels never cry
-
I'm not giving up. I just don't know who to contact to organize a coup. ;)
The current rash of politicians seem to have forgotten who they work for. Not saying there aren't a few good ones, just that we need a fresh and uncorrupted start.
The only way that we could get enough good people to run Government is for everyone of US (gunowners) to start running for office, on the state, and Federal level. If you don't want to run, vote in the primary and vote for someone other than the incumbent! The only way to change who is in the main election is to change who is left for us to vote for. I know what you are thinking. This will never happen. I think it can, it will take a great effort on all of us to make it happen, sacrifices have to be made if we want OUR country back from the Socialists who are quietly taking it over one election at a time. I will leave you with this quote I found. I believe this is our future if we are not willing to stand up and get involved.
From Alexander Tyler. No, he wasn't writing about the United States. This quote is well over one hundred years old. Tyler was writing about the fall of the Athenian Republic.
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."
-
The only way that we could get enough good people to run Government is for everyone of US (gunowners) to start running for office, on the state, and Federal level. If you don't want to run, vote in the primary and vote for someone other than the incumbent! The only way to change who is in the main election is to change who is left for us to vote for. I know what you are thinking. This will never happen. I think it can, it will take a great effort on all of us to make it happen, sacrifices have to be made if we want OUR country back from the Socialists who are quietly taking it over one election at a time. I will leave you with this quote I found. I believe this is our future if we are not willing to stand up and get involved.
From Alexander Tyler. No, he wasn't writing about the United States. This quote is well over one hundred years old. Tyler was writing about the fall of the Athenian Republic.
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."
[/glow]
Interesting indeed..
-
That is interesting. Another thing that might help is to stop supporting liberal media outlets. I.e. don't buy the NY Times or avoid buying products advertised on pretty much every TV station except FOX. The only good thing in the liberal newspapers is the crossword puzzles, anyway.