The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on November 11, 2008, 10:26:08 PM
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Did anyone watch "This is the Army" tonight?
The last number is about "how we're going to finish it this time" as opposed to WWI. Well as we all know we did not finish it. As I remember Patton (and others) said we should take out "Uncle Joe" as well and really get it done.
As usual the politicians won out and we then had Korea, The 'Cold War' and Viet Nam. Now I am one that does believe that civilians should make the final decisions otherwise we have a military rule, "We serve at the counties pleasure". BUT! Why don't they ever listen to those that have "been there, done that"? I am TIRED of seeing our BEST taking the same ground again and again at great personal cost, only to give it back.
We need to draw a line and say "This far and NO MORE" and that line is way to close to home now. If we don't point it out now it will pass us by and our sons and daughters will have to fight to regain what WE should never have given up.
The time is now, this is the place. FIGHT, make your voice heard. Join the NRA, get your CCW, let them KNOW that patriots still exist and that they ignore and dismiss us at their peril.
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Did anyone watch "This is the Army" tonight?
The last number is about "how we're going to finish it this time" as opposed to WWI. Well as we all know we did not finish it. As I remember Patton (and others) said we should take out "Uncle Joe" as well and really get it done.
As usual the politicians won out and we then had Korea, The 'Cold War' and Viet Nam. Now I am one that does believe that civilians should make the final decisions otherwise we have a military rule, "We serve at the counties pleasure". BUT! Why don't they ever listen to those that have "been there, done that"? I am TIRED of seeing our BEST taking the same ground again and again at great personal cost, only to give it back.
We need to draw a line and say "This far and NO MORE" and that line is way to close to home now. If we don't point it out now it will pass us by and our sons and daughters will have to fight to regain what WE should never have given up.
The time is now, this is the place. FIGHT, make your voice heard. Join the NRA, get your CCW, let them KNOW that patriots still exist and that they ignore and dismiss us at their peril.
Civilians should NOT have any say in conducting wars, They meddle to much in what they do not understand and have lengthened, and screwed up every war they have gotten us into (usually totally unprepared due to under funding of the military) since 1812. The interference from "Civilians " should end right after the President and Congress say, "Go kick that countries a$$, call us when they surrender".
Well it's Tommy this, and Tommy that, and "Chuck him out, the brute". But it's saviour of his country when the guns begin to shoot.
And it's Tommy this, and Tommy that, and anything you please;
But Tommy ain't no blooming fool, you can bet that Tommy sees !
(Rudyard Kipling )
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As much as the meddling is a huge problem, we are going to have a fight on our hands right here at home. Wehave to be very vocal about what solves a problem verses what restricts a constitutional right.
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As much as the meddling is a huge problem, we are going to have a fight on our hands right here at home. Wehave to be very vocal about what solves a problem verses what restricts a constitutional right.
I don't think they will listen. They will hear, readjust, continue. The people who cry about rights the most, privacy the most, freedom the most....those being the liberals, are the first to deny those rights to the people when given a choice between the rule of law or succeeding in their agenda. If at all possible they pervert and avoid the rule of law to succeed at their agenda.
Jay, I know you are saavy....but let there be no mistaken thought amongst the rest of you who read this...the new regime will not play by the rules. If you hear they are playing by the rules...it's only temporary expect what they plan to only be delayed or repackaged. The liberal-socialists thugs that are in power...BHO-Biden, Pelosi, Reid, Schumer....have no problem denying rights they do not believe in. If there lips are moving most likely they are lying. BHO's associates and the political machine he came from are brutal. They destroy people and they lie. They play for keeps...each and every time...no exceptions. Period.
We now have someone supported by the Chicago machine, multi-millionaire thieves and terrorists as president-elect. They cannot tell the truth or they would be rejected and they know that. To continue they must do what they have always done best.....smile, look pretty, speak well and lie.
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Arm chair generals, leave the tactics and fighting to people who are trained and have experience.
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Guys, when I said civilian in charge I meant of the big show not the details. Gen Washington could have easily proclaimed himself a military dictator but saw the wisdom of the military being a servant of the people not the rulers.
As far as the details it should of course, be strickly a military show and we'll tell you when we're done.
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Since these are just ramblings, Here's an idea (not mine) Only "Veterans" vote, not even serving members of the armed forces, ONLY Honorably discharged veterans.
Special tip of the helmet to any one who knows who the idea came from.
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Since these are just ramblings, Here's an idea (not mine) Only "Veterans" vote, not even serving members of the armed forces, ONLY Honorably discharged veterans.
Special tip of the helmet to any one who knows who the idea came from.
"Service guarantees citizenship." - Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein, 1959. Would you like to know more? ;D
Qoute from Wikipedia: Heinlein's Terran Federation is a limited democracy with aspects of a meritocracy based on willingness to sacrifice in the common interest. Suffrage belongs only to those willing to serve their society by two years of volunteer Federal Service — "the franchise is today limited to discharged veterans" instead of anyone "...who is 18 years old and has a body temperature near 37°C". The Federation is required to find a place for anyone who desires to serve, regardless of his skill or aptitude.
I'm a big Heinlein fan and always thought a couple of years of service should be mandatory for everyone when they reach adulthood. If you have to be honorably discharged to vote then I'm afraid I'm out of luck. But since I wasn't dishonorably discharged I can still vote. And own guns too. Let's just say mistakes were made and I paid the price. I would have rather taken my 10 lashes like in the book.
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"Service guarantees citizenship." - Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein, 1959. Would you like to know more? ;D
Qoute from Wikipedia: Heinlein's Terran Federation is a limited democracy with aspects of a meritocracy based on willingness to sacrifice in the common interest. Suffrage belongs only to those willing to serve their society by two years of volunteer Federal Service — "the franchise is today limited to discharged veterans" instead of anyone "...who is 18 years old and has a body temperature near 37°C". The Federation is required to find a place for anyone who desires to serve, regardless of his skill or aptitude.
I'm a big Heinlein fan and always thought a couple of years of service should be mandatory for everyone when they reach adulthood. If you have to be honorably discharged to vote then I'm afraid I'm out of luck. But since I wasn't dishonorably discharged I can still vote. And own guns too. Let's just say mistakes were made and I paid the price. I would have rather taken my 10 lashes like in the book.
;D You got it Frank, Heinlein's Starship Troopers, IMO is sound philosophy disguised as Sci Fi .
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Since these are just ramblings, Here's an idea (not mine) Only "Veterans" vote, not even serving members of the armed forces, ONLY Honorably discharged veterans.
Special tip of the helmet to any one who knows who the idea came from.
Cool, just like in Starship Troopers.
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I'm a big Heinlein fan and always thought a couple of years of service should be mandatory for everyone when they reach adulthood.
So I got around to reading the book. Heinlein was against mandatory service. I think the whole idea was only those who willingly served their country were eligible to vote. Making it mandatory defeats the selection process of finding those "socially responsible" enough to be entrusted with full voting citizenship.
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WOW :o, yesterday I made a vague Heinlein reference that some picked up on, and now he is all over the place. VERY COOL. ;)
LONG LIVE LAZARUS LONG, AND FARNHAMS FREEHOLD!!! ;D
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WOW :o, yesterday I made a vague Heinlein reference that some picked up on, and now he is all over the place. VERY COOL. ;)
LONG LIVE LAZARUS LONG, AND FARNHAMS FREEHOLD!!! ;D
Farnhams Freehold....it's been 35 years. I doubt I still have the book. Was that the one where people were isolated and didn't want contact with anyone...or was that the one where an altered person was stranded with others on a planet and had to make a go of it before they were ready...??? Neither?
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Novels featuring Lazarus include:
* Methuselah's Children (1941)
* Time Enough for Love (1973)
* The Number of the Beast (1980)
* The Cat Who Walks Through Walls (1985)
* To Sail Beyond the Sunset (1987)
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Ramblings....
There is much more to consider for an ALL volunteer military as we have today. People who serve today, serve for many reasons but in todays climate they are enlisting knowing there is a pretty good chance they will end up in the middle east. That says to me that these men and women are Patriots. Remember Pat Tillman?
The draft is flawed and mandatory service is not the answer for a country as large and diverse as the United States. It works for Israel because it's about the size of Massachusetts! If they reinstitute the draft, make it for everyone and offer NO expemtions for college kids, Senators kids, women, homosexuals, religion, NOTHING.....
If we are ever attacked by big drooling bugs, spitting acid based saliva and space Herpes, than we can call the "Starship Troopers", otherwise leave it alone and let the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and the Coasties do what they do best!
Our military is recruiting at record levels, the Marine Corp has nearly met their recruitment goals set for 2012 and will probably exceed that goal next year. Remember, it's about the only job left that still has a pension! One thing that Obama has already learned, it's a shitty world out there and the streets of Chicago are a cakewalk compared to the decisions he'll be making in the all too near future. If he abandons the military as Clinton did, he will never see another term!
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A few comments, First, I might be misunderstanding two separate lines here but, MANDATORY SERVICE, in the context of "Starship Troopers" service was only MANDATORY if you wished to become a full citizen and vote, if not you could skip it, as apparently many did, and remain a non voting "taxpayer".
Universal conscription of all able bodied Males. was pretty much universal in Europe prior to 1914, when a young man hit a certain age (18-21 depending on country) he served roughly 2 years (again it varied by country) then remained in the reserves for several years. This was how the European nations were able to field armies of well over 1 million troops in less than a month, (Aug 1914) While it was the Rail system that actually put them on their nations borders, it was conscription and the reserve system that supplied the numbers of trained and equipped troops.
"If we are ever attacked by big drooling bugs, spitting acid based saliva and space Herpes, than we can call the "Starship Troopers", otherwise leave it alone and let the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and the Coasties do what they do best!"
If you read the book carefully the "Starship Troopers " were the space going Marines, that's why they were transported by the "Space Navy", at one point there is a "historical" reference to the "Wet Navy".
"If he abandons the military as Clinton did, he will never see another term!"
I don't know why that would make any difference, people had the example of carter's abuse of the military and still elected Clinton, for that matter, they had the examples of our lack of preparedness prior to the Spanish American war, WWI, WWII, and Korea, but they still elect a$$holes who want to cut defense spending.
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If After Osama Obama abandons the military like Clinton did, he'll probably be re-elected like Clinton was.
2-3 months of basic training would straighten out a lot of the snot-nosed teenagers that the country is full of today. I still think 2 years of mandatory service with NO exception for anyone, for any reason, would be a good thing. They don't need them on active duty? FINE, put them in the reserves instead. No free country can maintain a large standing army. Only monarchies and dictatorships, etc. can do that. If, God forbid, we need to mobilize a large force then we have the manpower to do it and they've already been trained.
In The Cat Who Walks Through Walls how was the kitten able to walk through walls?
He wasn't old enough to have learned that he couldn't.
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For Rastus, Farnhams Freehold is about a father and his grown up children who are together when TSHTF, nuclear strike and they all go down into the shelter he built for just such an event, He has food, water, radio's, arms and ammo, after the dust settles they go out to see whats, what and wind up in a fairy tale. In the beginning he is being told how stupid his plan was.
Any one seen " Blast from the past " now that's a shelter ;D
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Haven't read that one. Need to check the library.
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and remain a non voting "taxpayer".
"No taxation without representation"
Wasn't that the credo that started the American Revolution?
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For Rastus, Farnhams Freehold is about a father and his grown up children who are together when TSHTF, nuclear strike and they all go down into the shelter he built for just such an event, He has food, water, radio's, arms and ammo, after the dust settles they go out to see whats, what and wind up in a fairy tale. In the beginning he is being told how stupid his plan was.
Any one seen " Blast from the past " now that's a shelter ;D
OK..so that wasn't the one that where there was a government bunker near Mount Rushmore when they let everyone out for a holiday and had the nuke strike?
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"No taxation without representation"
Wasn't that the credo that started the American Revolution?
With the democrats giving out welfare we already have "representation without taxation " , but in this case the lack of voting rights would be a personal choice , not one imposed involuntarily.
Also, the Constitution does not guarantee a "Right to vote" it only stipulates unacceptable reasons for exclusion, (race, gender, etc )
the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
The above are some quotes I found during a quick search of the Constitution.
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Several on here are "Constitutional Visitors" like Tom.
For those who are not, here is some interesting reading:
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
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