The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: runstowin on January 04, 2009, 06:16:27 PM
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Got this in my email today.
This is being introduced in each state
starting with California, New York, Illinois, Hawaii, Maryland, Indiana, Tennessee, and Washington.
See: http://www.ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm
"No later than January 1, 2011,
all noncoded ammunition for the calibers listed in this act,
whether owned by private citizens or retail outlets,
shall be disposed."
Tennessee
HOUSE BILL 3245
By LARRY J. MILLER
D - Memphis
SENATE BILL 3395
By REGINALD TATE
D - Memphis
http://www.usavsus.info/US-AmmoRegistr.htm
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It's also getting shot down in every state, the guy pushing it is the guy who owns the company that owns that technology. NRA has been pointing out his vested interest to lawmakers with good success.
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"Saving lives one bullet at a time" initiative never saw one vote in PA. Could you imagine the nightmare? Your cost, then having to police every piece of brass to make absolutely sure it never ends up someplace you never were? Like in a reload used in a crime?
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It's also getting shot down in every state, the guy pushing it is the guy who owns the company that owns that technology. NRA has been pointing out his vested interest to lawmakers with good success.
True, it is getting shot down, so to speak, at every turn. However, it is important not to let our guard down on this or any other piece of legislation that comes along.
We need to remember that it is not just the "anti's" we need to look out for. Businesses that see profitability in catering to anti's or political correctness will be spending to further the retirement accounts as well.
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The first bailout bill got shot down, and then it came roaring back , this time even worse.
The chimps in congress have a way of getting what they want, and the people be damned.
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well, I guess I will end up being a criminal before I comply with these stupid laws. Time to start moving to the backwoods of the west.
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This remind me of the saw stop guy... he came up with a product, no one bought it as it was too costly/ didn't work ... after the free market told him to take a hike, he went to congress to legislate his product.
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This remind me of the saw stop guy... he came up with a product, no one bought it as it was too costly/ didn't work ... after the free market told him to take a hike, he went to congress to legislate his product.
EXACTLY!!!
The traditional business advice is "find a need and fill it." However, there is a new one out there - "Develop a product and convince OSHA (or any other governmental agency) that it is needed." Stick with tradition, and you have a 50/50 chance of survival. Follow through on the new one and you are a guaranteed multi-millionaire!
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EXACTLY!!!
The traditional business advice is "find a need and fill it." However, there is a new one out there - "Develop a product and convince OSHA (or any other governmental agency) that it is needed." Stick with tradition, and you have a 50/50 chance of survival. Follow through on the new one and you are a guaranteed multi-millionaire!
i really wish I was the guy that came up with the erosion control straw rolls... that guy has to be rolling a doe.
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The problem isn't so much that they propose a serialization of ammution...it's who will be affected by it. I guarrantee you that law enforcement and military will get regular production ammunition, while civilians have to buy ammo from a separate assembly line or plant, paying all of the overhead costs for the new lines.
There's no way to fight crime and terrorism with the inherent costs of serialization, both in the machinery and in the lower production rates. Even Obama knows (or will find out from an advisor) that this technology would criple our military and law enforcement production. Therefore, there will be two assembly lines for the same product.
I would honestly like nothing more than for the ammunition and firearms companies to protest this legislation and any other unconstitutional legislation in the same way Ronnie Barrett protested the CA .50 ban-- cut off the government from the product until they restore the rights of the people.
I don't really know how I feel about cutting off production for the military, since they're pretty busy fighting a war. But the police departments that are going to run out of ammo should barrow ammo from other police departments that don't need it as badly, while demanding the right of the people to own guns and ammo be restored.
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The problem isn't so much that they propose a serialization of ammution...it's who will be affected by it. I guarrantee you that law enforcement and military will get regular production ammunition, while civilians have to buy ammo from a separate assembly line or plant, paying all of the overhead costs for the new lines.
There's no way to fight crime and terrorism with the inherent costs of serialization, both in the machinery and in the lower production rates. Even Obama knows (or will find out from an advisor) that this technology would criple our military and law enforcement production. Therefore, there will be two assembly lines for the same product.
I would honestly like nothing more than for the ammunition and firearms companies to protest this legislation and any other unconstitutional legislation in the same way Ronnie Barrett protested the CA .50 ban-- cut off the government from the product until they restore the rights of the people.
I don't really know how I feel about cutting off production for the military, since they're pretty busy fighting a war. But the police departments that are going to run out of ammo should barrow ammo from other police departments that don't need it as badly, while demanding the right of the people to own guns and ammo be restored.
The ammo companies ARE fighting it BECAUSE of the expense of retooling .
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IMO, cutting them off is the only way to go. What ticks me off is federal agencys don't have to fallow federal laws( same with state agencys and state laws) When I was working for the dept of architecture we were using coatings that had been illegal for decades. We also could apply products to surfaces that were illegal and with methods that were illegal. If I did half the stuff we were TOLD use/ do, I would be shut down instantly have all my lic pulled, prohibited from ever getting them again and fined in the 6 diget range.
What ticked off barret so much was the fact that the LAPD SWAT used his guns to show " how deadly" the 50 bmg round can be.
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Its BS too expensive and will,never happen, especially with the number of loaders out there.
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2How,
Don't discount it too easily. Many times before people have said that something will never happen and been screwed. The cost of production and who reloads what means nothing to those buying into this guy's business plan. Its promoters will keep pushing it until they get what they want, or we convince them we will not back down.
Remember prohibition? It may have been repealed, but look at what it did to the industry.
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Its BS too expensive and will,never happen, especially with the number of loaders out there.
real easy to stop that... stop selling primers or have those marked as well.
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i really wish I was the guy that came up with the erosion control straw rolls... that guy has to be rolling a doe.
That would be rolling in dough. "Dough" as in a euphemism for money, loot, moolah, etc.
Rolling a doe is just plain nuts. Everyone knows they never carry any money, and besides, it really annoys the doe! ;D
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That would be rolling in dough. "Dough" as in a euphemism for money, loot, moolah, etc.
Rolling a doe is just plain nuts. Everyone knows they never carry any money, and besides, it really annoys the doe! ;D
Depending on the season, it tends to piss off the buck, too. ;D
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Don't forget that after this craps outs, the anti freedom groups will move to the ammo stamping from the gun itself. Then we'll all be filing our stampers off our new weapons.
Nah...I'll start committing my crimes with revolvers, no case ejections.
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Its BS too expensive and will,never happen, especially with the number of loaders out there.
Will never happen? Wonder if the earlier American citizens thought that you would have to fill out a form to buy a gun, or have a background check, or a waiting period. As, opposed to simply walking in and being able to buy one just like anything else.. no big deal. With new technology and forensics.. you really think it would never happen? Guess what.. loaders can and will be affected by future events to. Make no mistake about it .. it certainly can happen.
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Its BS too expensive and will,never happen, especially with the number of loaders out there.
Going to keep replying, not to blast your view 2HOW, in order to remind everyone ...
The NRA ran ads for several years where people were shown saying "We didn't think it would ever happen." These were citizens of countries all over the world where guns were not only banned but confiscated.
Nothing is out of the realm of possible ... especially if we bury our heads in whatever we are knee deep in.
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There's something that's been left out in all this discussion. Forensics can determine the which gun fired which bullet based on unique striations left on the bullet from the barrel and machine markings left on the case from the chamber, breech face and firing pin. The idea that unique SN's will drastically improve the science of the investigation is bs, and only works on those who don't know anything about current forensic science.
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You miss the point that this is to cater to the lowest common denomenator of lazyness or lack of work ethic. It is designed to make it so your grandmother could pick up a piece of evidence and a computer, and tie everything to the shooter ... Oooooops ... I missed the point :-[ It is all about making ammo soooooooooooooo difficult and expensive to produce that we won't be able to find or afford it >:(
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There's something that's been left out in all this discussion. Forensics can determine the which gun fired which bullet based on unique striations left on the bullet from the barrel and machine markings left on the case from the chamber, breech face and firing pin. The idea that unique SN's will drastically improve the science of the investigation is bs, and only works on those who don't know anything about current forensic science.
Who do you think it's aimed at ? Who do you think is in the senate and congress ?
You miss the point that this is to cater to the lowest common denomenator of lazyness or lack of work ethic. It is designed to make it so your grandmother could pick up a piece of evidence and a computer, and tie everything to the shooter ... Oooooops ... I missed the point :-[ It is all about making ammo soooooooooooooo difficult and expensive to produce that we won't be able to find or afford it >:(
Ten ring :(
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Here's the way I'd argue against the AAA when writing to a senator, congressman, or anyone else who thinks this is a good idea.
First, the proposed purpose for this act as given by those who support it, is to enhance law enforcement investigations concerning crimes involving firearms. This must be exposed as unnessary before any arguements about it's real purpose can be made effectively.
Modern forensic science will be able to match the bullets and cases to the gun used to fire them. Forensic investigators can match any recovered bullets and cases to a particular firearm without the need for serial numbers on the bullets or cases.
Supposing the firearm was lost or not recovered, would just serialized bullets and cases be adequate evidence to do convict someone of murder? I think not, but I'm not an expert in criminal law. To my thinking, you can prove who owned the ammo but not who used the firearm that discharged the ammo.
Suppose you bought some AAA ammo and then decided you didn't need it so you gave it to a friend (undoubtly illegal under an AAA) to shoot at the range. Your friend finds out his wife was cheating on him and he shoots her. Your friend immediately gets rid of his gun where the police will never find it. Are you guilty of the murder since the bullets and cases were registered to you? At most, all you did was illegaly provide the ammo under the idea that it would be used legally.
Only after the problems with the purposed purpose of the law have been exposed can the arguements about it's true purpose enter into the discussion.
We know the real purpose is to increase the cost of ammunition to decrease the participation in lawful shooting sports and self-defense. By dropping the number of new shooters and increasing costs on the existing shooters, support for the lawfully armed general populace will decrease since fewer people will feel connected to the issue.
Back in day, hunters didn't feel connected to the newly invented term "assualt weapon," and a certian gun maker actively supported the ban. It's apathy that allowed the ban to go through without significant resistance.
The AAA is one part of a system designed to eradicate the Second Amendment and increase dependency on government, thereby promoting government powers and authorities.
With the destruction of the purposed reason for the AAA and the exposure of the true purpose, more of those who are on the fence or are open to pursuation can be brought to our side.
m58, I was just added a point to the arguement, not suggesting that everyone was wrong. I should have put this arguement together earlier rather than now.
Tom, you're right about those in congress. They are a bunch of idiots that couldn't find the toliet, let alone hit it, without the assistance of certain special interest groups. It's a shame one of them got elected president.
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Assuming AAA ammo actually works, there will be thefts of ammo by BGs so as to not be tied to the ammo, and to throw off an investigation of a shooting.
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Assuming AAA ammo actually works, there will be thefts of ammo by BGs so as to not be tied to the ammo, and to throw off an investigation of a shooting.
There will probably be thefts of ammo by relatively GOOD guy's. I'm not SUGGESTING anything, just saying.
Google Dec. 15 1774, I don't know if you will find mention of it ,but the arms and ammo that the British marched out of Boston to seize in April of 1775 was, on that date, stolen by colonists, armed with a cannon, from Fort William and Mary, renamed Fort Constitution, in Portsmouth NH.
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Good point.