The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: R_penguin on January 19, 2009, 03:45:34 PM
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This post is not for my fellow political activists, nor is it for all those who currently support or endorse our rights and freedoms. For such patriots I would only be "singing to the choir." This is for those who might still be on the fence or have not yet taken that plunge into the realm of understanding that freedom is not free. A common phrase is that: Freedom is not Free. What does it mean? Simply put, and in my very humble opinion (for I am no scholar), Freedom of any kind is a coin. On one side of the coin are our Rights and on the other are our Responsibilities.
One cannot be without the other, the other does not exist without the one. Example: we have the right to free speech and that requires the responsibility to refrain from messages of hate or violence, intolerance, lies, slander, etc. Given time, failure to act responsible in this reguard would lead to cencorship and control and thus the "Right" would be lost to lack of "Responsibility."
It works the other way too. Say we engage in safe gun practices, we educate our youth, fight political fronts, and do everrything we do to defend our 2nd ammendment. Why then our responsibilitys have been payed and we have EARNED the right to keep and bear arms...
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Ding, Ding, Ding!
Troll alert! DNFTT
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Ding, Ding, Ding!
Troll alert! DNFTT
Blood trickling down chin as I bite tounge typing fingers very very hard >:(
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This post is not for my fellow political activists, nor is it for all those who currently support or endorse our rights and freedoms. For such patriots I would only be "singing to the choir." This is for those who might still be on the fence or have not yet taken that plunge into the realm of understanding that freedom is not free. A common phrase is that: Freedom is not Free. What does it mean? Simply put, and in my very humble opinion (for I am no scholar), Freedom of any kind is a coin. On one side of the coin are our Rights and on the other are our Responsibilities.
One cannot be without the other, the other does not exist without the one. Example: we have the right to free speech and that requires the responsibility to refrain from messages of hate or violence, intolerance, lies, slander, etc. Given time, failure to act responsible in this reguard would lead to cencorship and control and thus the "Right" would be lost to lack of "Responsibility."
It works the other way too. Say we engage in safe gun practices, we educate our youth, fight political fronts, and do everrything we do to defend our 2nd ammendment. Why then our responsibilitys have been payed and we have EARNED the right to keep and bear arms...
Hey, site pest! Penguin, rights are rights, they are not earned, they exist regardless of any "earning" you think we have to do. Go back and read (not re-read) the Federalist Papers, the Anti-Federalist Papers, the Declaration of Independence, and the US Constitution. Then come back and modify your post appropriately.
Better yet, here's a better use of your time and money. Hire a de-programmer to rid yourself of the blatantly un-American brainwashing you have obviously suffered through the public schools.
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Why then our responsibilitys have been payed and we have EARNED the right to keep and bear arms...
R_penguin, you have earned the right to be pilloried.
Pillory: pil·lo·ry (pl-r)
n. pl. pil·lo·ries
A wooden framework on a post, with holes for the head and hands, in which offenders were formerly locked to be exposed to public scorn as punishment.
You have the ugly mug, I have the rotten tomatoes.
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Perhaps he meant that if we want to keep our rights, then we have the responsibility to stand up for them when someone tries to trample them?
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Perhaps he meant that if we want to keep our rights, then we have the responsibility to stand up for them when someone tries to trample them?
Example: we have the right to free speech and that requires the responsibility to refrain from messages of hate or violence, intolerance, lies, slander, etc. Given time, failure to act responsible in this reguard would lead to cencorship and control and thus the "Right" would be lost to lack of "Responsibility."
It works the other way too. Say we engage in safe gun practices, we educate our youth, fight political fronts, and do everrything we do to defend our 2nd ammendment. Why then our responsibilitys have been payed and we have EARNED the right to keep and bear arms...
Part of it.
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Change it to" proven we deserve the rights passed down to us" and I will go along with it.
As for you guy's saying he's a troll I'll make this comment. One of the few things I remember about math class is that to prove or disprove an equation you do it backwards, and if you follow his logic in reverse it works, If we DO NOT fight for our civil rights, DO NOT responsibly exercise them, DO NOT educate, then we ARE NOT worthy of the rights passed down to us. Where his thought fails is in the assumption that "Rights" CAN be GIVEN, rights are OURS, We are endowed with these rights by our CREATOR, not by man, or court or legislature. The only thing MEN can do with a "Right" is exercise it, or allow it to be taken away.
THE 2nd Amendment, is the ULTIMATE in "use it or lose it" because if we lose that we lose the means to enforce any other section of the Constitution.
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"Remember that Jefferson told us that the Second Amendment would not be needed until they tried to abolish it. There are people who have that in mind right now. The personal ownership and usage of firearms is not a common aspect of today's culture worldwide. It is up to Americans - those who know what it means to be an American - to uphold the light of liberty in the face of those both here and elsewhere who would extinguish it. We see the hysterics who feel that the abolition of firearms would bring about major changes in the human psyche, and that crime would disappear. We cannot reason with these people because they are impervious to reason, but we can expose them to ridicule and frustrate their political clout. That is a job not just for the National Rifle Association, but for everyone. If you want to make a resolution for the coming century, resolve to do something in defense of liberty every day, and by liberty, of course, we mean true liberty - the right to keep and bear arms. Without that liberty all other liberties are meaningless."
Col. Jeff Cooper
Hey Penguin,, the 2nd Amend. has NO gray area!
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Change it to" proven we deserve the rights passed down to us" and I will go along with it.
As for you guy's saying he's a troll I'll make this comment. One of the few things I remember about math class is that to prove or disprove an equation you do it backwards, and if you follow his logic in reverse it works, If we DO NOT fight for our civil rights, DO NOT responsibly exercise them, DO NOT educate, then we ARE NOT worthy of the rights passed down to us. Where his thought fails is in the assumption that "Rights" CAN be GIVEN, rights are OURS, We are endowed with these rights by our CREATOR, not by man, or court or legislature. The only thing MEN can do with a "Right" is exercise it, or allow it to be taken away.
THE 2nd Amendment, is the ULTIMATE in "use it or lose it" because if we lose that we lose the means to enforce any other section of the Constitution.
Tom, very good points. I actually agreed with him through the first paragraph, rights do come with responsibilities - a point many of us have made elsewhere on this Forum. I went back and modified my original post slightly.
However, I did leave in the part about his needed de-programming, however. His comments about the 1st Amendment requiring us to "refrain" from hate speech and the 2nd Amendment requiring us to do good things before we "earn" the right to keep and bear arms are telling. I cannot agree with either of these.
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Change it to" proven we deserve the rights passed down to us" and I will go along with it.
As for you guy's saying he's a troll I'll make this comment. One of the few things I remember about math class is that to prove or disprove an equation you do it backwards, and if you follow his logic in reverse it works, If we DO NOT fight for our civil rights, DO NOT responsibly exercise them, DO NOT educate, then we ARE NOT worthy of the rights passed down to us. Where his thought fails is in the assumption that "Rights" CAN be GIVEN, rights are OURS, We are endowed with these rights by our CREATOR, not by man, or court or legislature. The only thing MEN can do with a "Right" is exercise it, or allow it to be taken away.
THE 2nd Amendment, is the ULTIMATE in "use it or lose it" because if we lose that we lose the means to enforce any other section of the Constitution.
in proofs you should look further than just math class, as that has a very finite spectrum, you should, in this case use the premises of logic and philosophy. there are many ways to disprove, or prove. A conditional, assume a premise and see where it goes, A reductio ad absurdum, assume a premise and find a conflict, or just attack the premises of the argument at the beginning, the ones most people just assume to be right, the initial ones.
And worthy has nothing to do with anything. The only thing that matters is ABLE.then we ARE NOT worthy of the rights passed down to us.
re-write to then we are not able to keep the rights passed down to us.
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"re-write to then we are not able to keep the rights passed down to us."
I quit school in the 9th grade, enough with the Latin.
As to the quote above, No because if we don't defend our rights in the face of an obvious threat then we do not deserve them . Under those conditions, to not defend and exercise the rights our fore Fathers DIED for, is to dishonor them and disgrace ourselves. As Lenin said," The society that allows itself to be disarmed DESERVES the slavery that will soon follow". One of the few things I agree with him about.
(emphasis added)
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I quit school in the 9th grade, enough with the Latin.
I quit in 10th, I only know two things:
"Sic semper tyrannis"- Thus, Ever to Tyrants
"Audaces fortuna juvat"- Fortune Favors the Bold
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How many times do I have to sound a "troll alert" !!!!!
DNFTT
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"re-write to then we are not able to keep the rights passed down to us."
I quit school in the 9th grade, enough with the Latin.
As to the quote above, No because if we don't defend our rights in the face of an obvious threat then we do not deserve them . Under those conditions, to not defend and exercise the rights our fore Fathers DIED for, is to dishonor them and disgrace ourselves. As Lenin said," The society that allows itself to be disarmed DESERVES the slavery that will soon follow". One of the few things I agree with him about.
(emphasis added)
hey, you can ignore the Latin, but the method is the same, I just gave the name in case you wanted to look it up.
you are right about the need to defend our rights. My point is do something, do a lot of somethings, and get lots of people to do a lot of somethings, and leave the sniveling, and whining out of it. Feelings don't amount to a pile of beans, it doesn't matter whether something is deserved or worthy.
Mosbear I have no idea what DNFTT means.
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Mosbear I have no idea what DNFTT means.
In other words, you are clueless.
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How many times do I have to sound a "troll alert" !!!!!
DNFTT
Four, exactly four times is the proper number that you have to sound the Troll alert, and you have to do it while cooking bacon naked.
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I quit in 10th, I only know two things:
"Sic semper tyrannis"- Thus, Ever to Tyrants
"Audaces fortuna juvat"- Fortune Favors the Bold
I also know
Semper Fidelis = Always Faithful
The one that translates as "Who will watch the watchers" I recognize when I see it but can never remember it for a quote, and someone local has the license plate "carpe PM" since I have received "per diem" before (and work 2nd shift) I get the joke.
To the serious part of your post, I've been going on about this since I joined the forum. Like Tom Gresham says "No shrug" That's why I have written letters to the Editor, to the radio station , to my (dem :( ) congress critter and senator, to EVERY ONE on the Judiciary committee (Oppose Eric Holder ). But we NEED to do more, a flood of words is a start , but the elitists who push this stuff don't give a crap what we think. We need to ATTACK, Heller did in DC and continues to do so, NRA even if their willingness to compromise IS one source of our problems, continues to lobby, and keep the issue in public. But we need more, we need to attack anti gun items in the MSM for what they are, slanderous hate speech aimed at Govt. verified law abiding citizens, We need to attack the ACLU for failing to defend ALL civil liberties, they are guilty of blatant discrimination. If similar comments were made about Gays, Blacks or any other minority people would be losing their jobs, ask Don Imus.
We need to use the tactics that worked for the Gays, lawsuits against everyone that doesn't approve of us, person confrontation, (ie I'm obeying the law, I'm only exercising a GOD GIVEN Constitutionally guaranteed CIVIL RIGHT, Why do you object to that, are you UNAMERICAN, are you against the Constitution who's 1st Amendment gives you the right to make a fool of yourself ? ) We need to rub the publics nose in the fact that WE ARE HERE, AND WE ARE GONNA STAY HERE, until they are so sick of hearing it that they give us anything we want just to go to the range and leave them alone. ;D
We, in short, need to become finger nails on the blackboard.
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How many times do I have to sound a "troll alert" !!!!!
DNFTT
With all due respect, Mosbear, don't. In my humble opinion this subject is way too important to let it pass by.
Here in The Netherlands We The People have given rights: the right to smoke cannabis, the right on free sex, the right on self defense, the right on keeping and bearing arms. Too bad though that the Powers That Be feel that We The People cannot be trusted with guns so they decided not to give us the right to keep and bear arms...
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Mosbear I have no idea what DNFTT means.
In other words, you are clueless.
yeah , that's right. I am new to this stuff, and sometimes need things spelled out, There are only so many Acronyms you can guess. And I gotta tell ya, these things get thrown out like there's no tomorrow. I can guess most of them just due to its context, but I'm stumped on this one.
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yeah , that's right. I am new to this stuff, and sometimes need things spelled out, There are only so many Acronyms you can guess. And I gotta tell ya, these things get thrown out like there's no tomorrow. I can guess most of them just due to its context, but I'm stumped on this one.
Do Not Feed The .....
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yeah , that's right. I am new to this stuff, and sometimes need things spelled out, There are only so many Acronyms you can guess. And I gotta tell ya, these things get thrown out like there's no tomorrow. I can guess most of them just due to its context, but I'm stumped on this one.
Not all the acronyms are obvious, even in context. When it doubt, I can almost guarantee that Google can tell you pretty quickly what it means.
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Not all the acronyms are obvious, even in context. When it doubt, I can almost guarantee that Google can tell you pretty quickly what it means.
sometimes I forget about using the technology at my disposal. I forget simple little things can be spelled out when I usually look for more technical things...like what is wrong with my f****n computer!!?
I did the a bunch of writing for the Holder nomination as well, as much good as that did.