The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: PegLeg45 on February 19, 2009, 08:46:34 PM
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LEO friend sent this to me with the after picture. I found the link to the story (provided at bottom).
MP-5 Shot to head
Don't bring pistol caliber weapons to the fight if you have the option of using a rifle...
The following forwarded email is a bit gruesome, but it highlights the importance of shot placement and why one shot, even to the head won’t necessarily stop a person (they had even tried less lethal bean bag rounds before shooting him with a 9mm pistol round).
Man accused of killing wife is still in jail
Published on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009
Beacon Journal staff report
The man accused of shooting his estranged wife and holding their son hostage from police remains jailed. Daniel Tice, 32, appeared in Akron Municipal Court Tuesday morning still showing the gunshot wound that ended an eight-hour standoff with police this month. He is charged with aggravated murder in the shooting death of his wife, Brandi Tice, 28. Daniel Tice was shot by police once in the forehead while he was holed up in the basement of his Martha Avenue home. The shot fractured his skull. Tice underwent surgery at Akron City Hospital and was taken Friday to the Summit County Jail, where he is being held in lieu of a $1 million bond set by visiting Judge Michael McNulty. Family members say Tice was angered over his wife's affair with a family member and her demand for a divorce. He is accused of shooting his wife in the living room, taking his son and holding police at bay for eight hours. His 4-year-old son was not harmed. The couple's two daughters, 8 and 7, were kept from the home when they returned from school. SWAT members worked their way inside the home and shot Tice with an MP5 assault rifle after failing to subdue the 6-foot-1, 280-pound man with nonlethal bean bags fired from a gun.
Regarding the 9 mm hit—the point of aim is a bit too high and looks like it may be on a curved portion of the skull. You actually want to target the eye-sockets, especially with a handgun round to avoid projectile deflection from the skull (this happens more frequently than people expect).
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/01/man_indicted_for_murder.html
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Just another thick-headed criminal. :)
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Peg,
I bet it stopped the asshat in his tracks anyways. (and yeah, CENTER MASS at least double tap)
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huh didn't know position that you shoot someone in the head would make a difference to him being stopped by it or having the round affected that much the punk is just lucky that it wasn't an m4 or other larger round that hit him in the head (but if it was a 556 round that hit him he wouldn't be able to walk into that court room) and just another reason of why I would of preferred something that didn't fire a 9mm round in that kind of situation, I personally will always a revolver round or 45 round.
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Peg,
I bet it stopped the asshat in his tracks anyways. (and yeah, CENTER MASS at least double tap)
must of been budget constraints as there was no double tap
There is a lot to be said for the old double tap, would have saved a fortune in surgery bills
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Now that's a quality avatar pic :)
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Now that's a quality avatar pic :)
DON'T TELL JUMBOFRANK !!! We'll be seeing this bonehead for months ;D
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must of been budget constraints as there was no double tap
There is a lot to be said for the old double tap, would have saved a fortune in surgery bills
That first round may have initially looked like it made his head explode, so the officer may not have felt he needed a second shot. Or, second shot may have missed. I'll bet he went down though.
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Not that it really matters, but I chuckled at the description of the weapon used to shoot the suspect- "an MP5 assault rifle". Most of you know that an MP5 is a submachinegun, not a rifle, let alone an "assault rifle".
As for the effectiveness of a 9mm round, 9mm is perfectly effective at the distances in which they were operating. And 9mm has been putting people six feet under for over a 100 years. The article did not mention it, but I wonder if he was hit by a ricochet which could have kept the round from completely penetrating his skull; the article mentions he has a fractured skull.....
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Was the SWAT team member possibly be using a subsonic 9mm round in a MP-5 SD?
Possiby a oil contaminated round?
Airsoft?
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from the look of the wound, I'm wondering if the bullet hit him at an angle sharp enough that it grazed off his skull instead of penetrating. The forehead does have some serious bone in it.
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DON'T TELL JUMBOFRANK !!! We'll be seeing this bonehead for months ;D
Boneheaded and now has a double uni-brow ;D
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Ok one round to the head probably knocked him down. But what about squirting him while he was going down? I have seen too many reports of four or five cops shooting 30 rounds at naked guys in the street. Waz up with only one round?
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Bad angle in relation to the threat. It's the same situation as trying to make a high angle shot through a windshield. Chances are you will skip a round off the windshield rather than penetrate it.
The best chance to penetrate the skull is to make any shot as close to perpedicular as possible. The less angle the better.
Then again, sometimes we just plain miss our aiming spot.
USSA-1
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Who the hell is this guy?!? Arnold Schwarzennegger from "Terminator"? lol
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Bad angle in relation to the threat. It's the same situation as trying to make a high angle shot through a windshield. Chances are you will skip a round off the windshield rather than penetrate it.
The best chance to penetrate the skull is to make any shot as close to perpedicular as possible. The less angle the better.
Then again, sometimes we just plain miss our aiming spot.
USSA-1
I agree with the angle thing. I've actually seen a .357 magnum ricochet off a hog's forehead (right between the eyes) due to bad shooting angle.
I wish there was more definite info on the actual shooting.
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Or... agree or disagree?
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The article did say the round hit high and ricocheted off.
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Damn, that's too close to where I grew up!
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Isn't that "Randy" from the tv show "My Name is Earl"????
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Isn't that "Randy" from the tv show "My Name is Earl"????
Does look like him, don't it?
;D