The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Teresa Heilevang on March 10, 2009, 12:45:13 AM
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I’m Tired
Robert A. Hall
I’ll be 63 soon. Except for one semester in college when jobs were scarce, and a six-month period when I was between jobs, but job-hunting every day, I’ve worked, hard, since I was 18. Despite some health challenges, I still put in 50-hour weeks, and haven’t called in sick in seven or eight years.. I make a good salary, but I didn’t inherit my job or my income, and I worked to get where I am. Given the economy, there’s no retirement in sight, and I’m tired. Very tired.
I’m tired of being told that I have to “spread the wealth around” to people who don’t have my work ethic. I’m tired of being told the government will take the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy or stupid to earn it.
I’m tired of being told that I have to pay more taxes to “keep people in their homes.” Sure, if they lost their jobs or got sick, I’m willing to help. But if they bought McMansions at three times the price of our paid-off, $250,000 condo, on one-third of my salary, then let the leftwing Congresscritters who passed Fannie and Freddie and the Community Reinvestment Act that created the bubble help them—with their own money.
I’m tired of being told how bad America is by leftwing millionaires like Michael Moore, George Soros and Hollywood entertainers who live in luxury because of the opportunities America offers. In thirty years, if they get their way, the United States will have the religious freedom and women’s rights of Saudi Arabia, the economy of Zimbabwe, the freedom of the press of China, the crime and violence of Mexico, the tolerance for Gay people of Iran, and the freedom of speech of Venezuela. Won’t multiculturalism be beautiful?
I’m tired of being told that Islam is a “Religion of Peace,” when every day I can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and daughters for their family “honor;” of Muslims rioting over some slight offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren’t “believers;” of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning teenage rape victims to death for “adultery;” of Muslims mutilating the genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur’an and Shari’a law tells them to.
I believe “a man should be judged by the content of his character, not by the color of his skin.” I’m tired of being told that “race doesn’t matter” in the post-racial world of President Obama, when it’s all that matters in affirmative action jobs, lower college admission and graduation standards for minorities (harming them the most), government contract set-asides, tolerance for the ghetto culture of violence and fatherless children that hurts minorities more than anyone, and in the appointment of US Senators from Illinois. I think it’s very cool that we have a black president and that a black child is doing her homework at the desk where Lincoln wrote the emancipation proclamation. I just wish the black president was Condi Rice, or someone who believes more in freedom and the individual and less in an all-knowing government.
I’m tired of a news media that thinks Bush’s fundraising and inaugural expenses were obscene, but that think Obama’s, at triple the cost, were wonderful. That thinks Bush exercising daily was a waste of presidential time, but Obama exercising is a great example for the public to control weight and stress, that picked over every line of Bush’s military records, but never demanded that Kerry release his, that slammed Palin with two years as governor for being too inexperienced for VP, but touted Obama with three years as senator as potentially the best president ever.
Wonder why people are dropping their subscriptions or switching to Fox News? Get a clue. I didn’t vote for Bush in 2000, but the media and Kerry drove me to his camp in 2004.
I’m tired of being told that out of “tolerance for other cultures” we must let Saudi Arabia use our oil money to fund mosques and madrassa Islamic schools to preach hate in America, while no American group is allowed to fund a church, synagogue or religious school in Saudi Arabia to teach love and tolerance.
I’m tired of being told I must lower my living standard to fight global warming, which no one is allowed to debate. My wife and I live in a two-bedroom apartment and carpool together five miles to our jobs. We also own a three-bedroom condo where our daughter and granddaughter live. Our carbon footprint is about 5% of Al Gore’s, and if you’re greener than Gore, you’re green enough.
I’m tired of being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses while they tried to fight it off? I don’t think Gay people choose to be Gay, but I damn sure think druggies chose to take drugs. And I’m tired of harassment from cool people treating me like a freak when I tell them I never tried marijuana.
I’m tired of illegal aliens being called “undocumented workers,” especially the ones who aren’t working, but are living on welfare or crime.. What’s next? Calling drug dealers, “Undocumented Pharmacists”? And, no, I’m not against Hispanics. Most of them are Catholic and it’s been a few hundred years since Catholics wanted to kill me for my religion. I’m willing to fast track for citizenship any Hispanic person who can speak English, doesn’t have a criminal record and who is self-supporting without family on welfare, or who serves honorably for three years in our military. Those are the citizens we need..
I’m tired of latte liberals and journalists, who would never wear the uniform of the Republic themselves, or let their entitlement-handicapped kids near a recruiting station, trashing our military. They and their kids can sit at home, never having to make split-second decisions under life and death circumstances, and bad mouth better people then themselves. Do bad things happen in war? You bet. Do our troops sometimes misbehave? Sure. Does this compare with the atrocities that were the policy of our enemies for the last fifty years—and still are? Not even close.
So here’s the deal. I’ll let myself be subjected to all the humiliation and abuse that was heaped on terrorists at Abu Ghraib or Gitmo, and the critics can let themselves be subject to captivity by the Muslims who tortured and beheaded Daniel Pearl in Pakistan, or the Muslims who tortured and murdered Marine Lt.. Col. William Higgins in Lebanon, or the Muslims who ran the blood-spattered Al Qaeda torture rooms our troops found in Iraq, or the Muslims who cut off the heads of schoolgirls in Indonesia, because the girls were Christian.. Then we’ll compare notes. British and American soldiers are the only troops in history that civilians came to for help and handouts, instead of hiding from in fear.
I’m tired of people telling me that their party has a corner on virtue and the other party has a corner on corruption. Read the papers—bums are bi-partisan. And I’m tired of people telling me we need bi-partisanship.. I live in Illinois, where the “Illinois Combine” of Democrats and Republicans has worked together harmoniously to loot the public for years. And I notice that the tax cheats in Obama’s cabinet are bi-partisan as well.
I’m tired of hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers and politicians of both parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or youthful mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was getting caught. I’m tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich or poor.
Speaking of poor, I’m tired of hearing people with air-conditioned homes, color TVs and two cars called poor. The majority of Americans didn’t have that in 1970, but we didn’t know we were “poor.” The poverty pimps have to keep changing the definition of poor to keep the dollars flowing.
I’m real tired of people who don’t take responsibility for their lives and actions. I’m tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination, or big-whatever for their problems.
Yes, I’m damn tired. But I’m also glad to be 63. Because, mostly, I’m not going to get to see the world these people are making. I’m just sorry for my granddaughter.
Robert A. Hall is a Marine Vietnam veteran who served five terms in the Massachusetts state senate
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oooh rah
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Amen!!!!!!
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Robert A. Hall says much about liberals and all the bad they do, and he is correct, but there is one little problem, conservatives. You know those good ole God and country, mom and apple pie bunch who decry welfare and socialism in general. Yet they steal from me, they send their children to the evil communist public school system(Communist Manifesto 10th plank: free education for all children...). I pay tuition for my son's private school, then I am taxed to help pay for the mis-education of the children of good conservative anti-socialist bellyaching parents. I could go on, and on, and on, but the point is made. Who is a conservative to complain about the breakdown of this country, when they are part and parcel of the problem?
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You know what I'm tired of ? I'm tired of so many people complaining that this is messed up or that is a propaganda mill, without supplying suggestions or taking action .
Not to single out Runstowin, but the schools offer a simple example. He has no right to complain about what is being taught in public schools because his son doesn't attend it. If his son DID attend the public school Runstowin would have the right to examine the text books being used and complain if they did not meet his standards. He could also run for school board I do not know if you have to have a child in school for that.
Many parents complain about the materials used in schools, most are unaware that they have a legal right to influence that.
As to you paying for it, even if your property tax were lowered to compensate for it, you would still be paying because of the federal tax dollars that are kicked back in the form of grants and other federal payments to state and local education Dept.s. Thats part of the reason so many kids get put on Ritalin, schools get more money if they have more "special needs" students.
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You know what I'm tired of ? I'm tired of so many people complaining that this is messed up or that is a propaganda mill, without supplying suggestions or taking action .
Not to single out Runstowin, but the schools offer a simple example. He has no right to complain about what is being taught in public schools because his son doesn't attend it. If his son DID attend the public school Runstowin would have the right to examine the text books being used and complain if they did not meet his standards. He could also run for school board I do not know if you have to have a child in school for that.
Many parents complain about the materials used in schools, most are unaware that they have a legal right to influence that.
As to you paying for it, even if your property tax were lowered to compensate for it, you would still be paying because of the federal tax dollars that are kicked back in the form of grants and other federal payments to state and local education Dept.s. Thats part of the reason so many kids get put on Ritalin, schools get more money if they have more "special needs" students.
Guess what Tom I do have a right to criticise the public school system, I help pay for it, also I am at the effect of the human slime that is so common a product of that foul communist system. You may love and defend communism, but I have absolute contempt for it. Public schools are inherently evil, it is my job to expose evil and resist it. The action I have already suggested, which is to simply get your children out of the government indoctrination system post haste.
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Guess what Tom I do have a right to criticise the public school system, I help pay for it, also I am at the effect of the human slime that is so common a product of that foul communist system. You may love and defend communism, but I have absolute contempt for it. Public schools are inherently evil, it is my job to expose evil and resist it. The action I have already suggested, which is to simply get your children out of the government indoctrination system post haste.
If I remember right the duty of a Christian is to FIGHT evil, not say "There's evil there" then hide under the bed. I suppose if your lazy or afraid of authority then pointing out the problem then hiding from it is all your capable of. But the fact that other countries give their students a better education in Govt. schools for considerably less than we spend shows that you are talking out your butt about "communism". If parents took responsibility for curriculum, and paid attention to HOW it's being taught then the socialists in the NEA would not have been able to change the face of American education. But to many parent's think school is a babysitting service, they drop the kid off pick the kid up and don't know any more about the school than the address.
Don't snivel and whine. DO SOMETHING. Review the text books, run for the school board, fix the problem. It's your job.
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I could read at the 10th grade level at age 5
In fourth grade I had an IQ of 141 and was admitted into Mensa
Fifth grade I was had a GPA of 2.0
Ninth grade I had a GPA of .05 (And I have the report card to prove it)
Age 15 I was a dropout
Now:
Honor Roll at a community college
Honor Roll/President's list at a State University
Honor Roll at one of the best schools in the nation and member of 2 honor societies...
Public School can kiss my Butt. If a public school was burning to the ground with a hundred school administrators in it and I had a glass of water...
I would drink it and piss on the ashes.
They are the main problem as they tell everyone that they deserve to get good grades and a diploma
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Been forgetting PTA.
Thanos is right the problem is THE ADMINISTRATORS, not the system. The system worked fine up till the mid 60's. I KNOW. I was there to watch the change happen around me. I went to public school, as did most on here. If some one thinks WE'RE indoctrinated they aren't paying much attention.
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I get frustrated with the system as it naturally tends to the lowest energy output or in other words, the teachers don't like to work. It is natural, but I cannot support a system that does not reward those who work harder or even realize that some people should be employed elsewhere. I am a real supporter of if the school has a 50 percent failure rate everyone should be fired. If Ford had a 50 percent failure rate on their product they would be out of business in a week and sued and hopefully jailed. The failure rate in school is much more important than a car but there are no consequences for the systems failure rate.
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I get frustrated with the system as it naturally tends to the lowest energy output or in other words, the teachers don't like to work. It is natural, but I cannot support a system that does not reward those who work harder or even realize that some people should be employed elsewhere. I am a real supporter of if the school has a 50 percent failure rate everyone should be fired. If Ford had a 50 percent failure rate on their product they would be out of business in a week and sued and hopefully jailed. The failure rate in school is much more important than a car but there are no consequences for the systems failure rate.
Tenure is BS
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Tenure is BS
I feel about the same way towards teachers as I do towards pro sports players. If you don't perform, you don't get paid.
The big problem with that is the teachers would just pass the kids to keep their jobs and everyone would be right back where we are now......
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My daughter is a special ed teacher and one of the drummers I work with is a music teacher. One thing that we don't think about when you talk about teachers is how much crap they are handed every day by the administrators and how little backup they get. My daughter has about 12 kids that all have different problems (please excuse me if I didn't use the right term) and she has some aids to help because these are kids that can't do anything or freak out or might hurt another kid or have a seizure or something. Trouble is, the paperwork that a teacher of "normal" kids has to do for the class, she has to do for EACH kid, plus special paperwork on each one because of their special needs. It takes a lot of her off time to keep up. She loves kids and loves teaching and after a few years already hates her job.
My drummer friend says that the admin will come to them and say, "Do whatever you have to do to get these kids to pass". He said some teachers just curve everything so they pass because they catch a bunch of crap from the administration AND the parents come in and threaten them because little Bobby is a dumbass. Everybody wins a prize.
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Everybody wins a prize.
Much like the "participation medals" given to everyone who participates in a sport, regardless of whether or not they contribute a damn thing. Can't hurt anybody's feelings. We must all sit in a circle and sing "kum-ba-yah".
Here endeth the rant.
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One thing that we don't think about when you talk about teachers is how much crap they are handed every day by the administrators and how little backup they get.
I think about it all the time...I just follow it up with if I had a job like that I would quit and find something else to do. If the teachers can't find another job because they don't have any other skills, one must question if these are the people we want teaching our children?
Seriously, you didn't check to see if it was a crap job before going to school for 4 years for it? What sort of idiot would do that? And if someone is not bright enough to see the plain future that is spoken of my every parent in the United States...why on earth would we want them anywhere near our children? Come on, I wouldn't let a homeless drunk that got there by stupid decisions influence my child, what is the difference between that and a stupid college student that wants to "Change the world by being a teacher?"
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Come on, I wouldn't let a homeless drunk that got there by stupid decisions influence my child, what is the difference between that and a stupid college student that wants to "Change the world by being a teacher?"
Then it's useless to try to help others?
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Been forgetting PTA.
Thanos is right the problem is THE ADMINISTRATORS, not the system. The system worked fine up till the mid 60's. I KNOW. I was there to watch the change happen around me. I went to public school, as did most on here. If some one thinks WE'RE indoctrinated they aren't paying much attention.
Been forgetting PTA.
Thanos is right the problem is THE ADMINISTRATORS, not the system. The system worked fine up till the mid 60's. I KNOW. I was there to watch the change happen around me. I went to public school, as did most on here. If some one thinks WE'RE indoctrinated they aren't paying much attention.
The problem with the public school system isn't the fault of the government, administrators, teachers, bus drivers, or custodians.
It's the parents! It's that simple.
"You can't discipline my kid. We don't believe in prayer at school. My kid says he didn't do it, and I believe him/her. Why can't my kid be first? Why is my kid last? Why can't you control my kid in your class? If you take my kid's cell phone away at school, how am I suppose to text them? I don't have time to study with my kid; your the teacher, do you're job. I'm not coming to the parent-teacher conference because I don't have time, My kids don't do drugs; I know where they are and what they are doing while I'm not at home. My kid doesn't have a learning disability, you have a teaching disability."
Heard any of them before?
The tools for learning at public schools are there. They've always been there. Rules have been established there as well. Certain parents and their kids think they're above the rules. It's no different then our laws and our lawmakers. Rules and laws are established to protect ourselves from ourselves. If you speed on the highway, you broke the law. You can bitch about it for sure. But did you, or didn't you know the law? Did you learn anything? You sure did! Because you probably got fined and maybe points on you're license. Same thing applies in schools.
Rules are established because our kids are at a place designed for teaching studies to feed their minds and bodies. Not for disrespecting administrators, creating a distracting atmosphere for others, or to share with others dangerous drugs, sexually oriented lessons, or any other types of immoral behavior. Just as rules have been established, penalties are enacted to ensure them. But some parents feel they are above the rules and the penalties. So they're children act accordingly.
Our society has become lazy in parenting. Children learn from them closest to them. From early on, babysitters, family members, neighbors, etc....have all had influences on our children. What kind of education are you're children getting nowadays with their so-called friends, while your not around? It's not a healthy one I can assure you. Texting, phone pictures, my space, Internet chat, etc....they're more knowledgeable in mischief and mayhem, than in reading and writing; I can assure you!
But all is not lost....If your a heads up parent, who cares about your child's education, friends, activities, and future; then you're already ahead of the game. Staying involved and making them accountable, will make them responsible, respectful, and grateful in life. If you're out of touch with what is going on in you're child's life, then step up and get real! You're the adult, the parent, the teacher. Act like it. My kids respect me because I'm not their friend. I'm their parent. They have plenty of friends. But only one or two parents.
I'm damn glad I got an education. Yes! I graduated. No! I'm not a doctor, or lawyer. I'm a truck driver. But of all the lessons I've learned in life... the teachings of my parents morals and core values helped me in school when I struggled the most. I didn't blame others for my faults and short comings. I was paddled when I got into trouble. At school, and then at home. Because I was taught better by my parents than to behave that way.
My grades were my responsibility. If I needed help, by God, it was my responsibility to ask for it. It's ok to be proud. However; it's not ok to have idleness keep one from seeking the answer, or the truth.
The kids nowadays are lazy, unmotivated, full of excuses, lack respect and are verbally abusive towards adults in general, lack self respect, attend school mostly for socializing while disrupting the typical learning process, they have no fear of disciplinary actions because punishments are passive at best, because of parents who live in the me,me,me world; and don't teach their children core values to better themselves, and those around them. The first and last teacher a child learns from is the parent, at home.
Teenagers are especially becoming more brazen in their behavior. When parents coddle them when they misbehave, or falter, the behavior has now become justified in the mind of a teenager. Because they learned it at home first. So if parents can bitch, whine, and complain about this, that, and the other; then what are the children learning?
Therefore, I'm tired of..... whiners and blamers who want to point a finger at everyone else, when they need to clean up their own messes first!
No offense implied to those who get it.
Phew!!!Sorry for the rant y'all.
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The problem with the public school system isn't the fault of the government, administrators, teachers, bus drivers, or custodians.
I'm damn glad I got an education. Yes! I graduated. No! I'm not a doctor, or lawyer. I'm a truck driver. But of all the lessons I've learned in life... the teachings of my parents morals and core values helped me in school when I struggled the most. I didn't blame others for my faults and short comings. I was paddled when I got into trouble. At school, and then at home. Because I was taught better by my parents than to behave that way.
Phew!!!Sorry for the rant y'all.
Sweet Jesus!! Thank you Coroner. I have been sitting this out and biting my tongue. I said, Quaker, these are good folks, and you've gotten yourelf into enough trouble on this forum as a Libertarian without borrowing more. Well, Coroner, you've brought me into this. Thank you for the inspiration. You say you're a truck driver, I say you havea PhD in reality. Thats no bullshit either because people like you are why I do what I do, and for not all that much money besides. I am an academic. I've taught at high schools, liberal arts colleges and at state universities; and I've taught politics, which is the most important subject there is. Not because it will build a bridge or cure cancer, but because it teaches future generations to understand the value of a free and democratic government. While reading this thread I have heard opions ranging fron the honestly misinformed (its the teachers unions or the administration) to the delusional, if not downright selfish and borderline unpatriotic (why should I educate my neighbors kids, and in a commie(???are there any of those outsideof North Korea???) "government" school.The sad fact is, they miss a few key points:
1) Talent follows money. You get what you pay for. All those rightwing blowhards who prostrate themselves before the free market think that it somehow stops when it comes to teachers. You offer someone crap wages, bad working conditions and a lot of bureaucraitic BS and then complain you don't have top notch talent? Its like you expect Mother Therseas to decend from on high and staff the schools, and then villify them when its not all sunshine and puppies. If I'm good at math and want to teach, yet can get 50K as an engineer and 30K as a teacher with the same 4 year degree, which way will most people jump? Grow up folks! There is no free lunch! You get what you pay for and, yes Virginia, it will raise your tax bill. Deal with it.
2) The Founding Fathers made a free public education a cornerstone of the Republic. They didn't do it because they were (sigh)commies. They did it it because they understood that a democracy depended on an educated, literate populace that could hold its leaders to account.(As some of the rightwing Christians with short memories on this thread may recall, this was a bit of an issue in the Reformation. Being able to read the Bible in you own language and interpret it for yourself did factor in there [stress the being able to read part]).
3) Parents: Here is where I once again praise Coroner. Whether you love or hate Obama (or, are like me willing to wait and see) the one thing I am on board with him about is his view on parenthood. He tells about his mother (single, a student, abandonded by dear old Dad) yet still made sure to read over his home work and help him with school. The man interrupted a presidential campaign to go to parent teacher conferences. How many parents bother to turn off the TV to show up? A teacher has your kid 1 hour a day, and yet many parents think they are responsible 100% for the kid's education. Again (and I admit I am doing this to be provocative) Obama has said to parents "turn off the TV, get rid of the play station and get your child a desk,and if not a desk, clear off the kitchen table after school for home work". Again, love the man or hate him, but the one thing in life you can't fake is a happy well adjusted child. If more teachers had students like Sasha and Malia, the public schools wuld be better places.They're not, because too many kids don't have good moms and dads.
The bottom line of this rant is that as a teacher of politics and civics, someone who is responsible for making sure the next generation is equipped to deal with future crisis in a democatic fashion, I am sick of the BS. To quote Pogo we have met the enemy and he is us. The enemy is a public too cheap to tax themselves to give their kids a first rate education with first rate talent in the classroom, and parents too disintrested to acually understand that THEY are responsible for ther kids education and that the teachers are just there to help. Here endeth the rant.
FIGHTINGquaker13 (at least on this issue)
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Then it's useless to try to help others?
No. But do you want the least common denominator helping your kids? Most teachers get a degree in teaching...wow, so what they hell do they know? How to teach? Not likely, and more important they can't teach my kids calculus and differential equations because they didn't learn any of that in their "Teacher Program"
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My kids respect me because I'm not their friend. I'm their parent. They have plenty of friends. But only one or two parents.
I am not my kids friend either, I am their father. I teach them the right things and I expect that they live that way when I am not around. I suck as a father, but I try and my wife is the greatest mom anyone could want...and she doen't think it is her job to be a friend either. Teach your children right when they are young and they will not stray from it.
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If more teachers had students like Sasha and Malia, the public schools wuld be better places.
Hate to burst your bubble here, Obama sends his kids to PRIVATE SCHOOL. Why? Even he knows public schools suck!
So does Michael Moore and Bill Clinton and (Insert Libreal name here)
Our school system sucks and I for one am sick of throwing money at a broken system. We spend more money than any other nation and we have the lowest achievement levels. That is nothing short of pathetic. The government is ineffective in everything they do from the DMV to the FBI. Come on, it is a joke how many times they screw up and we just brush it off. Name one thing they are better than the private sector. (Don't feel bad, no one has ever been able to answer my challenge.)
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Hate to burst your bubble here, Obama sends his kids to PRIVATE SCHOOL. Why? Even he knows public schools suck!
So does Michael Moore and Bill Clinton and (Insert Libreal name here)
Our school system sucks and I for one am sick of throwing money at a broken system. We spend more money than any other nation and we have the lowest achievement levels. That is nothing short of pathetic. The government is ineffective in everything they do from the DMV to the FBI. Come on, it is a joke how many times they screw up and we just brush it off. Name one thing they are better than the private sector. (Don't feel bad, no one has ever been able to answer my challenge.)
Our military doesn't suck, and last I heard, they were government run. Since the day man crawled out of the caves, we've wondered what was on the moon. Every day I've been alive I've been able to know that there was an American flag flying up there. Last I heard, it it didn't have a "Brought to you by Budweiser" sticker on it either. I don't mean to be either harsh, nor overly idealiastic. I AM saying, that when it matters the USA is capable of getting the job done. Yes, there is waste and mismangement etc in education, and yes reform is necessary, but the same applies to the DOD.Yet I don't see the right villifying the officer corps. The bottom line is that a free, universal public education is MORE important to the preservation of a democratic republic than are all the kings horses and all the kings men. Why don't we take it seriously, and spend a tenth of what we've pissed away in Iraq and make it happen? Public, vouchers, charter, I don't give a damn. Just make it happen and don't whine about the cost. This is the ultimate national security issue. We need to treat it as such.
FIGHTINGquaker13
PS As far as Obama's kids going to public school, get real! Do you seriously think that in a post 911 world the the children of the president, or their classmates for that matter, would be safe in a public school. I did my undergrad in DC, about 2 miles from Sidwell Friends (GO QUAKERS!!) and they always served children of diplomats and such. They are known not just for the quality of education, but the quality of security as well. Lets live in the real world and understand that those two little girls are at a serious risk of kidnapping or worse
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Coroner and Fightingquaker, You have taken my point much further, more eloquently than I could. It comes back to that old saying that "you get out of it what you put into it".
If all you do is throw money at something, (and bitch about that) OF COURSE the system will be taken over by other who DO take an interest. Any one who has Kids and thinks badly of the education system should apply the same energy to THAT problem that they apply to the 2nd Amendment, or their golf game or what ever.
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No. But do you want the least common denominator helping your kids? Most teachers get a degree in teaching...wow, so what they hell do they know? How to teach? Not likely, and more important they can't teach my kids calculus and differential equations because they didn't learn any of that in their "Teacher Program"
Calculus huh? Most high schools don't even offer calculus classes anymore. Hell, most kids are lucky to pass basic math. Most fail Algebra I and II. Trigonometry if they have enough kids qualified to take the class, but calculus....well, it's touched on briefly in another math class as is Trig., but most kids can't get a handle on it, because they're just trying to pass Algebra class.
Are you an M.I.T. graduate or something? You work for NASA? We're talking about kids barely attending classes everyday, and your ranting about whether a math teacher is qualified to teach calculus. Like I said earlier, I'm not a doctor, or lawyer; but I have enough common sense to understand why a high school would hire a teacher to teach a particular math class. Okay, I'll tell you...because that's the class their qualified to teach. It's what they were hired to teach. I'm a truck driver. I'm not going to be hired by homeland security just because I own a gun. If your son or daughter isn't getting their calculus lesson at their school, and their educational requirements demand it; perhaps a school with a calculus qualified teacher is the answer.
While I'm trying kinda hard not to be insulting to you, alittle common sense goes along way friend. I think in all fairness to teachers, of any class whether it be calculus, creative writing, world history, conceal and carry, advanced firearm training, etc....RESPECT for them, in their ability to continue to learn, and to be better at whatever their discipline may be, is not for you or I to belittle.
While a Calculus teacher might be able to drive a commercial truck with a little training. I, on the other hand, could not teach a calculus class in a lifetime. Especially students who don't respect me in class, and are unwilling to learn. Until you've spent alittle time in their shoes, one shouldn't disrespect the efforts of others to make a difference. It makes you, well.....well, I'm a gentleman, so I'll leave it alone.
So? Which one are you? Part of the problem, or part of the solution?
Are you a parent who would vote down school tax levys to buy new band uniforms, a gymnasium, vocational equipment, etc...but would pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to a lawyer to sue the school board because your son/daughter didn't get picked for a position on the debate club, or the cheerleading squad? Are you that parent?
While this forum is designated for us to "agree to disagree" I don't know you anymore than you know me. But your opinion on teachers, and school administrators, is well......one driveway short of the trailer park friend. God Bless!
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Our military doesn't suck, and last I heard, they were government run.
PS As far as Obama's kids going to public school, get real!
OUr Military is the best in the world with the finest men on the planet in it...but, the government screws it up. Look how little they are paid, the crap that they put up with and the conditions that they live in. To top that all off, the mantra in all forces is "Hurry up and wait" no business in the world would run like that. They are funded by a bottomless pit of money and that is the only thing that keeps them going financially. I spent 7 years in the Air Force and would do it again (Although I might do Marines instead) but the military is run by a bureacratic pack of idiots when it comes to getting things done. If you let the USMC and the USAF do their job, Iraq and Afghanistan would have been won a long time ago and insurgents would be a thing of the past.
Obama's kids went to private school in Chicago too. What was he told by a burning bush he was going to be President so he put them in private school there too? NO, he knew that public school sucks.
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Are you a parent who would vote down school tax levys to buy new band uniforms, a gymnasium, vocational equipment, etc...but would pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to a lawyer to sue the school board because your son/daughter didn't get picked for a position on the debate club, or the cheerleading squad? Are you that parent?
Of course not, I am planning on attending law school next year...;)
My point is that our sysstem is not working the way that it should. Calculus is not the difficult, but the foundation for it is never even taught to those who could learn it. America's ecudational system is set up to process everyone the same way just push them through. It offers no adaptation. For the money that America puts into the system they should be getting much more out.
I don't have a problem with people wanting to be school teachers, but I do have a problem with people who can read and wrtie going into a occupation that they can easily find the pay scale and then bitching about their compensation. The system that teaches our children is undenyably the worst in the world for the amount of money we put into it. Some schools have a 57% dropout rate, my question is why are the people who are running those schools still employed? And why are we throwing more moeny at a school like that?
They have proven their inability to succeed, fire everyone and start over in those schools.
P.S. Don't worry about insulting me, I am a big boy and I can take it.
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Of course not, I am planning on attending law school next year...;)
My point is that our sysstem is not working the way that it should. America's ecudational system is set up to process everyone the same way just push them through. It offers no adaptation. For the money that America puts into the system they should be getting much more out.
For the money, parents should appreciate the opportunities afforded to their children. While I agree with you that "certain" points of the educational systems are lacking; money tends to cater to money. What I mean is....certain high rent school districts can afford a swim team and swimming facility; yet other less fortunate districts can't even afford busing. But the rant about teachers "what do they know anyways" attitude you shared in an earlier post; was unwarranted.
If the standards of our schools are so low, then why aren't all students passing classes, posting all "A's" grade cards, and graduating? What was the percentage of drop outs? 57 percent? Like I said earlier, a child's education starts at home with the parents. If they're not part of the solution, then they're part of the problem. Parents need to teach their children at home first. The parent who lets others raise or teach his/her child, and then points the finger in blame as to why their child has failed, is a shameful individual.
It's not our government's responsibility to support us in life. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" Like I said in an earlier post, our children are lazy and unmotivated to learn. They think they know better than everyone else what's best for them, but they can't write a poem, or short story, because they don't have any imagination or ambition to learn how. Your planning on going to law school you say...so I would hope that you would have a better handle on the reality of achieving an education. Nothing in life is free. Especially an education. One has to work for it. Have a plan, and see it through to the end. The daily struggles of a parent with their child are the same for our education administrators. If a parent can't control the child in their own home, why then do we expect our educators to? Why even ask why? Put the blame where it is warranted....on the lazy, unmotivated constantly complaining child, and the lazy, unmotivated, and constantly complaining parent.
Good luck at law school. Anything worth doing, is worth doing right. Anything right is worth doing.
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What I mean is....certain high rent school districts can afford a swim team and swimming facility; yet other less fortunate districts can't even afford busing.
Another example of how the system is so broken.
But the rant about teachers "what do they know anyways" attitude you shared in an earlier post; was unwarranted.
I don't take financial advice from people who are poor, I don't take educational advice from people who went to school for 8 years to make 40K as a teacher.
Put the blame where it is warranted....on the lazy, unmotivated constantly complaining child, and the lazy, unmotivated, and constantly complaining parent.
I will admit that much of the responsibility is on the parents, but they system cannot blame the parents forever. The issue that I find the most disturbing is the system is acting as an enabler to allow parents to let their kids be taught exclusively through the school. They want them from daycare age to 25 to be in their system and they fight like a mad dog if someone wants another option.
You cannot honsetly believe that a system that actively prevents competition, opposes earned pay rates and merit based promotions and pay, and thinks that the person who has been there the longest should keep their job above all other workers that may be more efficient, is a good system.
For the money, parents should appreciate the opportunities afforded to their children.
That sounds rather totalitarian, kind of like Pelosi saying that Republicans should appreciate what they got out of the stimulus bill. That is not the kind of system I appreciate. Besides, the cost is not free, it is the most expensive one we have.
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Bear in mind that the NEA is nothing more than another union, just like the greedy bastards who are helping to kill off the American auto industry.
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Another example of how the system is so broken.
Money for schools are delegated to districts based on several factors. One being the populaton index. Federal and State grants, Tax Levys, etc....The way that the money is budgeted by the district dictates where, when, and how the money is distributed. However, and for whatever it's worth, teacher's salaries are figured in on a budget that may have been drawn up years in advance. But I'm not going to argue the money management of school districts throughout the country. They are all independent of each other, and should be treated as such. If you don't like a particular hardware story, what do you do? You go to another, right? Same thing applies here. You've chosen a law school over several others throughout the country? Why? Why not just go to the one closest to friends and family? Because you have the option to choose. That's what makes our school systems work. A choice. But then there will be flaws in every school at one point or another, won't there? Except in a perfect world. I unfortunately don't live there.
I don't take financial advice from people who are poor, I don't take educational advice from people who went to school for 8 years to make 40K as a teacher.
Wow! As far as the financial debate goes.....What does that have to do with a parent's responsibility to teach their kids? Secondly, what makes you think a teacher making 40K only goes to school for 8 years? Furthermore; what makes you think a teacher only making 40K a year, isn't better qualified than one making 60K or more a year? Still yet; I've never heard a teacher say they wanted to teach children for the money. I think they are underpaid as a matter of fact. Certainly they are rich individuals for being able to take the abuse handed out by ungrateful parents and children, while still being able to teach those who come to school to learn.
I will admit that much of the responsibility is on the parents, but they system cannot blame the parents forever. The issue that I find the most disturbing is the system is acting as an enabler to allow parents to let their kids be taught exclusively through the school. They want them from daycare age to 25 to be in their system and they fight like a mad dog if someone wants another option.
The system isn't blaming the parents. The parents blame them. As I see it, most school administrators are playing defense most of the time. To be honest with you Thanos, I envision more acts of violence by teenagers without intervention by parents to pull off another Columbine type shooting or bombing event. It's going to happen again. They're more cruel and brazen then I would have ever believed our society would allow. Thankfully, juvenile departments in our area, are learning quickly that these kids are out of control, and are taking steps to control their unruliness within the confines of the law. And finally, on this point you claim they want them from daycare through age 25? Come on my good man, are you kidding yourself? Kids who fall in line in school and graduate aren't being held back by the system. And furthermore, if the school has a problem child to deal with, they have a course of action they have to by law; play out to the letter. If you went to work everyday knowing you had a problem co-worker to deal with, how long would you want to have to deal with them? I'm pretty sure that problem students who constantly disrupt classes, threaten administrators and others, fail to do the school work, or etc....are a welcome sigh of relief to the school district, when they quit, or finally graduate. Quitting is failure. The school didn't quit them, they quit school. I've never heard anybody say, "School quit me". So give me a break, when you put teachers down for the 40K a year that they obviously EARN!
You cannot honestly believe that a system that actively prevents competition, opposes earned pay rates and merit based promotions and pay, and thinks that the person who has been there the longest should keep their job above all other workers that may be more efficient, is a good system.
Actively prevents competition? What about practice makes perfect? Most kids quit competitive activities in school because it takes up too much of their time, or it's too hard, or etc....How is teaching/coaching a student to learn a subject/skill preventing competition? It's only when the kids fail to meet up to the expectations of parents do we ever hear this bullsh*t. Why isn't my little Johnny pitching? How come my daughter isn't starting on the volleyball team? No competition? Come on! What about a student learning to be a team player, or the idea of school spirit, and fair play? Hey, I played sports, football, basketball, track. Every practice, was competition. I know I couldn't compete with other students when it came to academic challenge. But that's not the fault of the system. It's my fault for not being a more intuitive student. I could have competed. The opportunity was there. I choose not to. How can that be a flaw of the system? This is American high school's we're talking about right? Because I still think even as a high school student, we are free to join, tryout, practice, and compete. Right?
What does a teacher's salary, that they agreed to when they were hired, have to do with the system being flawed? Teachers are paid according to the budget of the school district. There are a lot of variables that dictate to how much money they have to work with. It doesn't mean the teachers aren't qualified to do the job they were hired to do! Perhaps they have decided early on when they began their education to become a teacher, that they didn't want to teach inner city kids, or maybe they did. Why do you care about how much they make anyways? Did you want to be a teacher? What I mean is....everyone has to start somewhere. If and, or when you get your license to practice law; do you expect a law firm to hire you right out of law school to handle a high profile case at a salary you agreed to start at? Of course not. So you have to prove your salt right? The same thing is true with teachers. They can and do apply to schools with a higher rate of pay when they choose to. Most teachers find a district that they are quite content with, and raise families of their own there. What's wrong with that? There's nothing political about there choice to settle in one place or another? This is America!
That sounds rather totalitarian, kind of like Pelosi saying that Republicans should appreciate what they got out of the stimulus bill. That is not the kind of system I appreciate. Besides, the cost is not free, it is the most expensive one we have.
Totalitarian huh? Maybe you ought to go into corporate law so you can defend us against money grabbing financial institutions on the verge of financial destruction! So they can't take our money with down with them. It's okay to be a right fighter my friend, but blooding the waters with examples of government and private mismanagement, disillusions over whether teachers qualifications to teach are overshadowed by their rate of pay, or how competition and fair play doesn't exist in our schools, is just the ramblings of a bitter and unhappy individual. And if you cannot appreciate the system, fix it, or drop it! Complaining and blaming never got a thing done as far as I know?
If you want to make a difference. If you think you can do better, or have a better solution to the problems that plague our country, such as, mismanagement of schools, homeland security, taxes, the war effort, our judicial systems, law enforcement organizations, collaspe of our financial institutions, saving our auto industry, closing of businesses nationwide, rise in unemployment, workman's compensation, child support enforcement, or the housing dilema; then by all means, step up and be heard! But if all your going to do is rant about the flaws of our education system without any solution, then don't play the blame card unless you've got your facts straight. Once again, the problems that plague our schools today, start with the parents inability to parent at home first! Accountability for one's actions, responsibility to bear them, and respect enough to understand them.
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I don't take financial advice from people who are poor, I don't take educational advice from people who went to school for 8 years to make 40K as a teacher.
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Thanos
Here's a clue,who do you think "educated" you? If you think teachers are stupid for working for 40K why did you listen to them (wait a minute, you obviously didn't)? How about those officers in the Air Force? Were they morons for using their Academy areo-space engineering degrees and pilots licenses to serve their country for not very much money? You say you're going to law school (God help us all). Do you think your profs are chumps for making 70K or 80K for the priviledge of teaching a genius like yourself, as opposed to working on Wall Street for 5 times that? If so, why are you shelling out 30K a year to listen to idiots? Are you detecting a trend here? The bottom line, as shocking as it may be to you, is that a lot of good smart people value public service over money. If I was smart enough to get a Ph.D., I was damn sure smart enough to get an MBA. I didn't, and as a result, I drive an F-150 rather than a Porche. But at the end of the day, I get to go home knowing that I helped a class of 18 year olds learn something about their country. Am I an idiot too?
FIGHTINGquaker13
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Complaining and blaming DO have a place in the cycle, 1) complaints identify the fact of,and symptoms of a problem, just like your Dr. asking how you feel. 2) Blame establishes the root source of the problem. 3) the next step is action.
This DOES NOT JUST APPLY TO EDUCATION. Some one posted earlier that the primary cause of the problems we have identified within education stem from (I'm paraphrasing here) lazy, disinterested parents who take no active role in the education of their lazy, disinterested kids. Think about it, they VOTE the same way. You can't convince me that 58% of the voters are so stupid that they could not have figured out in advance that Obama's stated policies would be a disaster, IF they had bothered to find out WHAT those policies were. Granted He got votes because he's Black,yes he got the dead beat vote by promising to play Robin Hood. But the portion of his votes that made the difference were the people who were tired of Bush. They were to mentally lazy to even stop and think that Bush would have been gone no matter WHO won.
You can see this same attitude any where you look, from the afore mentioned teachers who "Just pass them", to the factory workers who spend more time and effort trying to get out of work than if they actually did it, the people who are there because they have to account for 8 hours a day to collect their check. This is the attitude of the DMV worker who just walks away from a line of people because it's their break time, and God help you if you interfere with THAT.
The "Problem" is not with education, or the elected officials. The "Problem" is with Modern American society where it is more important to text or phone your friends than it is to pay attention to your driving.
This economic crunch is a GOOD thing for America, the worse the crash the better the effect, most people will not wake up until THEY lose their job, house, boat and third car. When people have to THINK to get their next meal they will get into the habit and will start to THINK about other things as well.
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This economic crunch is a GOOD thing for America, the worse the crash the better the effect, most people will not wake up until THEY lose their job, house, boat and third car. When people have to THINK to get their next meal they will get into the habit and will start to THINK about other things as well.
Due respect Tom, let me know how GOOD it is when you've lost your job, your third , or is it fourth car (excuse me, I'm channeling John McCain) or YOUR house. You WANT people to to have to worry about where their next meal is coming from as part of some ideological object lesson? I have a real problem with evangelicals who wear their religion on their sleeve, and can't finish a sentence without using the name Jesus. Largely because I think this is simply in poor taste and bad manners. But brother, as a Quaker educated Episcopalian, I gotta say you're outta line.Politics is all well and good, and certainley a contact sport, but not when it comes at the cost of real human suffering.
Respect
fightingquaker13
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I'm glad to be an American! I'm proud of my parents, and the hard work they put into raising me and providing both emotionally, and economically for my well being. I'm thankful for the teachers who gave me their time, when I didn't always give them mine. I'm thankful for my football coach who taught me humility and teamwork. I'm thankful for my wife and children who make life tolerable. I'm thankful for my neighbors who look out for my property when I'm away. I'm thankful for my rights under the constitution of the United States of America, and for the countless lives lost to ensure my freedom to share my opinions, and debate topics with with my gun toting, card carrying brethren. While we may not always agree on every issue; it is what brings us together to have these discussions, that make us better for it. I am as much a student in my learning of firearms issues, as I'm sure a lot of us are. But it's the comradiery amongst both men and women who are passionate about their beliefs, and firm in their convictions, that keeps me here.
God Bless all of you. Especially Thanos....I hope your law school education helps in developing you into a leader of men. A man that leads by example, and can hold his head high because he made a positive difference in the lives of others; no matter how much money you make doing it. If you only measure wealth in dollars an cents, then you're poverty is ours.
Good Luck and best wishes.
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Due respect Tom, let me know how GOOD it is when you've lost your job, your third , or is it fourth car (excuse me, I'm channeling John McCain) or YOUR house. You WANT people to to have to worry about where their next meal is coming from as part of some ideological object lesson? I have a real problem with evangelicals who wear their religion on their sleeve, and can't finish a sentence without using the name Jesus. Largely because I think this is simply in poor taste and bad manners. But brother, as a Quaker educated Episcopalian, I gotta say you're outta line.Politics is all well and good, and certainley a contact sport, but not when it comes at the cost of real human suffering.
Respect
fightingquaker13
I don't really care if you think I'm out of line, I DID lose my job, about 6 weeks ago. and haven't owned a car in years, as to the apartmrnt, while it is pleasant, I have lived in a tent before and am perfectly capable of doing so again. As for your babbling about evangelicals I have NO idea what you are going on about.
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Thanos
Here's a clue,who do you think "educated" you? If you think teachers are stupid for working for 40K why did you listen to them (wait a minute, you obviously didn't)?
Sorry, I could read at 4 and until I dropped out at 15, I always was reading things more advanced than the class was teaching me. I don't think I ever had a teacher in the public schools that knew more than I did. Sorry.
My point is, I have heard so many times how someone wants to be a grade school teacher and I think it is silly. Bad work environment, bad co-workers (Students), mismanagement, customers that complain (Parents), a better system elsewhere (Private schools), better pay in other fields (including McDonalds) and a union.
Do you think your profs are chumps for making 70K or 80K for the priviledge of teaching a genius like yourself, as opposed to working on Wall Street for 5 times that?
Um, my mathematics professor makes 195k+ a year, I think that is pretty good.
The system is broken, did you know that most of Europe won't accept American credits towards graduation? My in-laws had three German exchange students that would have to repeat the grade that they did here because it is not considered equivelent. That is pathetic.
The problem that I have is we keep wanting to throw money at a system that has such a high failure rate without demanding that they do a better job. I want to send my kids to a private school.
I saw your other post:
But brother, as a Quaker educated Episcopalian, I gotta say you're outta line.Politics is all well and good, and certainley a contact sport, but not when it comes at the cost of real human suffering.
It is the challanges in life that build character and refine the weak, I think this country needs a few more opportunities to build some of the character that we have lost since WWII. As much as I hate to admit it, I think a lot of people would derive some good out of a bad economy, like learning how to work. This goes for the rich just as much as the poor. You can't tell me that Paris Hilton doesn't need a little work ethic? ;)
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God Bless all of you. Especially Thanos....I hope your law school education helps in developing you into a leader of men. A man that leads by example, and can hold his head high because he made a positive difference in the lives of others; no matter how much money you make doing it. If you only measure wealth in dollars an cents, then you're poverty is ours.
Good Luck and best wishes.
My first paycheck when I finish law school will be to give $1000 as a scholarship to a high school dropout that has completed 2 years of college with a GPA of 3.0 or higher. No other strings attached. I plan on increasing that so that one day I can pay for a full four years (Two years retroactively) and then do that for several people. And then do the same in my wife's name at the CIA. I don't want to be a leader of men, my path was filled with a lot of stupid mistakes, I am the LAST person I would want anyone to look to as an example. ;)
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I'm glad to be an American! I'm proud of my parents, and the hard work they put into raising me and providing both emotionally, and economically for my well being. I'm thankful for the teachers who gave me their time, when I didn't always give them mine. I'm thankful for my football coach who taught me humility and teamwork. I'm thankful for my wife and children who make life tolerable. I'm thankful for my neighbors who look out for my property when I'm away. I'm thankful for my rights under the constitution of the United States of America, and for the countless lives lost to ensure my freedom to share my opinions, and debate topics with with my gun toting, card carrying brethren. While we may not always agree on every issue; it is what brings us together to have these discussions, that make us better for it. I am as much a student in my learning of firearms issues, as I'm sure a lot of us are. But it's the comradiery amongst both men and women who are passionate about their beliefs, and firm in their convictions, that keeps me here.
God Bless all of you. Especially Thanos....I hope your law school education helps in developing you into a leader of men. A man that leads by example, and can hold his head high because he made a positive difference in the lives of others; no matter how much money you make doing it. If you only measure wealth in dollars an cents, then you're poverty is ours.
Good Luck and best wishes.
After I got my GED i went back to school, initially for Business, but I dropped that in favor of a vocational class in machine trades, because I looked ahead and saw myself after 20 or 30 years of business and decided that I would probably want to slit my wrists. while accounting may be "easier" work than the logging I had been doing previously there is no job satisfaction. Now, in the WORST job I have ever had, at the end of the day there was a pile of parts that I could look at and say "I did that". If given the chance to do it again I would make the same decision on that.
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I don't really care if you think I'm out of line, I DID lose my job, about 6 weeks ago. and haven't owned a car in years, as to the apartmrnt, while it is pleasant, I have lived in a tent before and am perfectly capable of doing so again. As for your babbling about evangelicals I have NO idea what you are going on about.
Tom sorry about the job. I'm between contracts now as well and its damn scary. The evangelical thing was just an excuse to use a litlte Gargy Cooper style Quaker "friendly persuasion", and lay guilt trip on you for seeming to ignore the casualties of the reccession. (Hope you saw the movie or I'll look like moreof a babbling idiot. Good luck with the job hunt.
fightingquaker13
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This economic crunch is a GOOD thing for America, the worse the crash the better the effect, most people will not wake up until THEY lose their job, house, boat and third car. When people have to THINK to get their next meal they will get into the habit and will start to THINK about other things as well.
I agree completely, Tom. In fact, I have been saying this privately for years, when the direction of the proletariat became clear. My girlfriend turned to me about a month or so ago and asked if I was happy. How so? And she said because I had hoped for this situation.
It wasn't hope, it was only a recognition that after the excesses of the 80's and 90's - the whole "Me Generation" crap - something had to be done to bring this country to its senses. Money had become a god again (not that Mammon ever really left) and the real God was not happy at the behavior of His children. So the false gods of "it's all about me" and money had to be thrown down once again.
If you worship those gods, you will be a casualty, what the hell makes you think you're so special that you won't be hurt in this "war"? The world owes you nothing. Mother Nature doesn't even know you exist. If you sin, you will be punished. What part of that do you not get?
And Quaker, according to your way of thinking, this country would never have been won from the British - or even founded for that matter. Suffering is part of the human condition, all one can do is prevail in spite of the suffering, and avoid the "poor me, I'm a victim of <fill in the blank>" syndrome that so thoroughly infests this country today. The NFL players who died - according to the survivor - died because they could not handle being a victim of the boat's failure. The survivor survived because he swore he would prevail over his suffering.
As a Christian who believes in the salvation of Jesus, I well understand my responsibilities in the midst of suffering - my own as well as others - but it is not for me to eliminate all suffering. To quote bho, it is above my pay grade. For him, it was a cop-out. For me, it is recognition of my role in God's plan.
Tom, hang in there. It is a tough time, but just so you know, I too have been jobless, I have been stone cold broke and $100k in debt, having lost my entire family - even the dog - due to divorce. You can and will prevail, our prayers are with you.
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I agree completely, Tom. In fact, I have been saying this privately for years, when the direction of the proletariat became clear.not happy at the behavior of His children.
And Quaker, according to your way of thinking, this country would never have been won from the British - or even founded for that matter. Suffering is part of the human condition, all one can do is prevail in spite of the suffering, and avoid the "poor me, I'm a victim of <fill in the blank>" syndrome that so thoroughly infests this country today. The NFL players who died - according to the survivor - died because they could not handle being a victim of the boat's failure. The survivor survived because he swore he would prevail over his suffering.
Pathfinder you have completly lost me. You said "according to "my" way of thinking the country would never have been founded"? What the hell? I reccomend you stop smoking the jimson weed up there in NoDak. I am a member of the Sons of the American Revolution, my ancestors were given a free boat trip to Georgia after that unpleasantness with Prince Charlie in 1745 and as I think I've made abundantly clear on this thread, and others, I've used a fairly high dollar education (paid for with an army ROTC scholarship) not to make money but to teach civics to teenagers and twenty-somethings. What, exactly is your problem? I cannot think of a single thing I have written here that would draw your ire. The exception being a shot at that small (but not small enough) group of smug Bible thumping, flag lapel pin wearing, evangelicals who (contrary to scripture) like to loudly proclaim their piety/patriotism at every opportunity, whether its appropriate or not. Even there, I don't have a problem with the most of the content, so much as it is a matter of good taste, decorum and humility (the Quaker handle wasn't chosen out of a hat). Even giving you that, I don't get your problem. What's the beef that you would question my oft argued for ideals as a Libertarian, or my patriotism
puzzled and peeved
fightingquaker13
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Quote from Path finder
"Tom, hang in there. It is a tough time, but just so you know, I too have been jobless, I have been stone cold broke and $100k in debt, having lost my entire family - even the dog - due to divorce. You can and will prevail, our prayers are with you."
Thank you Pathfinder. Divorces are rough, that's what put me in a tent the last time. There is only one place around here that's accepting applications, but they called me in for an interview last week and I feel good about it.
Quote from Fighting quaker
"I've used a fairly high dollar education (paid for with an army ROTC scholarship) not to make money but to teach civics to teenagers and twenty-somethings."
Maybe you could start tutoring politicians.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php/topic,4193.0.html
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..............The exception being a shot at that small (but not small enough) group of smug Bible thumping, flag lapel pin wearing, evangelicals who (contrary to scripture) like to loudly proclaim their piety/patriotism at every opportunity, whether its appropriate or not. ............ Even giving you that, I don't get your problem. .........fightingquaker13
You ridicule a person's beliefs and don't get their problem? Just how into yourself are you? Oh, wait...I'm sorry, I shouldn't talk to you like this...you are so much better than we are with that "high dollar education" and lineage back to 1745 inclusive of the obviously superior tie to the American Revolution.
I apologize. We are just too common to understand your plane of personal enlightenment. Forgive us for being so simple and uneducated.
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You ridicule a person's beliefs and don't get their problem? Just how into yourself are you? Oh, wait...I'm sorry, I shouldn't talk to you like this...you are so much better than we are with that "high dollar education" and lineage back to 1745 inclusive of the obviously superior tie to the American Revolution.
I apologize. We are just too common to understand your plane of personal enlightenment. Forgive us for being so simple and uneducated.
Rastus, Please forgive me if I offend. That last post came out a lot angrier than I intended. I will say that an attack on my my patriotism and my service as a teacher just flat pissed me off and I pretty much just opened fire without caring about collateral damage.For the record, I am not anti-evangical. I attended the First Free Evavngelical Church in Austin for a while while I was seekig a home affter to coming to God in my mid-twenties, and I found a lot of good people who I was blessed to have known. I was just taking aim at the Pat Robertsons and James Dobsons of the world who can't tell the difference between GOD and GOP, and fail to distinguish between secular conservatism and Biblical Christianity.
As far as "boasting on my lineage" I also had a great grandfather (who I loved) who was a member of the KKK back in twenties, when it was actually a scary group, rather than just a collection of inbred misfits. I don't think your ancestors define you, your choices do. I only brought this up because Pathfinder explicitly said I would have been on the wrong side in 1776. I was merely trying to show that my family (for what its worth) wasn't.
As far as my "expensive" education goes, yeah, I'm proud of it. I worked for it. I earned it, and I think I'm doing good patriotic (dare I say Christian) service with it by using it to teach. I'm 39 and I've never made more than $48K in my life. I realize I could make more doing something else, but I enjoy teaching. I've never wished "if only I'd gone to law school", not even once, and thats all the reward I need. My degrees don't make me smarter than any one else, I'd hold up Tom and Coroner as examples, They just give me little bit of background to tell the kids something in class that will hopefully make them realize what a fragile thing a democracy is and how much it depends on them.
In conclusion I can see how you would take my post as arrogant and elitist. That was not the intent, rather it was a response to what I saw as an unwarranted and unprovked attack. Be that as it may, I chose my words poorly and presented myself and my arguement in a bad light. As I said in the post, I didn't choose Quaker as a handle out of a hat. I know that failing to apologize when you've offended, even if unintentionally, is no virtue. So I say again, Rastus, my apologies, I let my temper (Scottish remember) get the best of me.
(not so)fightingquaker13
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"It's irritating, the fact that I am an eight-year veteran and I could be out of a job for a year," said Chambers, who brought his class to listen to O'Connell's remarks.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509217,00.html
This is a school teacher response to California laying some teachers off. That is what is wrong with the system. He doen't say, I have had 16 MIT students come from my class...it is his eight years that entitles him to not be laid off. That is disgusting that someone would think that seniority is the most important thing to you keeping employment.
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bitch
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509217,00.html
This is a school teacher response to California laying some teachers off. That is what is wrong with the system. He doen't say, I have had 16 MIT students come from my class...it is his eight years that entitles him to not be laid off. That is disgusting that someone would think that seniority is the most important thing to you keeping employment.
Good lord man! This guy could be the best teacher in California, or the worst for all I know. For the purpose of argument lets assume he's in bewteen. Just a solid guy, who does his job everyday, and has done so for the last eight years. You ask how many kids he's sent to MIT? What if he's teaching remedial math?The answer is none. What if you, who dropped out at 15 are in his class? Is that his fault? Any worker in any job (and yes that includes the employees at a law firm) who have done the best they could with what they have, all day every day, are entitled to a bit of respect and compassion when they lose their job. What part of that do you fail to get? You say teachers are fools for working for $40K. Are you willing to offer $80K to get better talent and tax yourself accoordingly? Somehow I doubt it. We're not living in an Ayn Rand novel my friend, we're living in the real world. You sem to be one of those people who holds up an ideal view of education and teachers on the one hand, yet won't tax youself to pay for it. So figure out whether you want cheap education or good education and get back to me when you're willing to quit bitching and put forward a plan and write a check to pay for it.
FIGHTINGquaker13
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bitch
HUh?
fightingquaker13
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yet won't tax youself to pay for it. So figure out whether you want cheap education or good education and get back to me when you're willing to quit bitching and put forward a plan and write a check to pay for it.
I never said anything about the cost, don't be ignorant! The reality is his eight years have nothing to do with his job, but union members always think that it does. And that is what he is a union member.
On top of the fact the California School System is horrible. At what point to you think we should fire everyone that does poorly at their job as a teacher? That is the root of the problem, we don't get rid of bad teachers.
There, you have my plan. Hold teachers accountable for their poor performance and allow parents to send their kids to another school that will work harder for their dollars. How on earth can you be such a fool to think that our education system is worth a damn when Europe doesn't accept it as credit and we pay far more than they do? Answer that question, or shut up.
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bitch
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The amount of money thrown at it is not relevant countries that spend far less than we do per student deliver better results
http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/13542/International_Scorecard_for_US_Education_Big_Spending_SoSo_Results.html
As to the specific teacher referred to in Ca. While I have previously said that teachers unions and the NEA are just that, UNIONS, as with other unions "tenure" protects mediocre performance and discourages excellence that might reflect badly on underachievers. HOWEVER, almost every time I have seen a layoff at a place I worked the cut has relied on the principle of last in first out.